Taylor Mays is coming to Cincy for a visit

[oldschooler]

[quote name='claptonrocks' date='02 April 2010 - 03:28 PM' timestamp='1270240086' post='874813']
Why would the Bengals have Taylor Mays come to the Nati???
I mean he's a one trick pony...
all he can play is SS and they have two on board now with only Crocker manning the other side...

Seems ludicrous to bring a guy in that is over rated and basically a liability on the field...

Mike Zimmer doesnt know a thing about safties or defenses.....if it werent for him May's name probably
wouldnt even come up in Cincy....


On the other hand...........maybe Zim sees alot of good things in this wonderful athlete....ya think?
[/quote]



[img]http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3141/sarcasm2.gif[/img]

[quote name='Lucid' date='02 April 2010 - 03:44 PM' timestamp='1270241086' post='874819']
Zim started off as a DB's coach.. And was good enough at that to become a DC.. I think he knows a thing or 2....
[/quote]


I think that's what he meant.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='02 April 2010 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1270241592' post='874823']
[img]http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3141/sarcasm2.gif[/img]




I think that's what he meant.
[/quote]


Yeah... Which is why I edited to to start with "Yep"... Because I meant to agree with him.. And then after reading it realized that wasn't apparent.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Lucid' date='02 April 2010 - 03:54 PM' timestamp='1270241653' post='874824']
Yeah... Which is why I edited to to start with "Yep"... Because I meant to agree with him.. And then after reading it realized that wasn't apparent.
[/quote]


Oh sorry. My bad. I am bored and was too quick to respond. LOL

[Tigris]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='02 April 2010 - 07:36 AM' timestamp='1270208216' post='874692']
I AM in love with the thought of what Zimmer could do with such a physical specimen.

Like I said, people comparing Mays to busts is ridiculous in my opinion.

Some players that had great measurables and combine numbers have been pretty
good NFL players.

Could he be a bust? Sure. But so could any pick in this draft.
[/quote]
If anyone in this draft could bust, how is it ridiculous to compare Mays to a busted player?


[quote name='scharm' date='02 April 2010 - 08:44 AM' timestamp='1270212250' post='874709']
Weak response in regards to Taylor Mays. His ranking is based off his play. He has been among the top prospects coming out of college for a long time. He has not jumped like Veron or Jerome into a several spots higher based on workout numbers and measurables.

His play and performance on the field got him the the attention. He's been considered a top prospect even at this time last year. It can be argued that he should have come out last year as he could have gone higher in the draft. Now he's mixed in a strong safety group.
[/quote]
Gholston was getting first round love throughout his last year at OSU. Mays wasn't critiqued as much this time last year because he never declared. Now it's crunch time and these scouts' reputations and jobs are on the line.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Tigris' date='02 April 2010 - 05:08 PM' timestamp='1270242523' post='874828']
If anyone in this draft could bust, how is it ridiculous to compare Mays to a busted player?



Gholston was getting first round love throughout his last year at OSU. Mays wasn't critiqued as much this time last year because he never declared. Now it's crunch time and these scouts' reputations and jobs are on the line.
[/quote]

Yeah, and that just might include talking a guy down to create a buzz, which just might give enough people doubts to give your team a chance at him that they never would have had otherwise.

I'm not saying this is what is happening, but it wouldn't be the first time.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Tigris' date='02 April 2010 - 04:08 PM' timestamp='1270242523' post='874828']
If anyone in this draft could bust, how is it ridiculous to compare Mays to a busted player?



Gholston was getting first round love throughout his last year at OSU. Mays wasn't critiqued as much this time last year because he never declared. Now it's crunch time and these scouts' reputations and jobs are on the line.
[/quote]



I think it is very ridiculous. Why aren't the same bust concerns placed on Berry or Thomas?
Keiwan Ratliff was a ball-hawking play making CB in the SEC. He was a bust.

Hell, you said Thomas was a "for sure thing". So you obviously don't think he could be a bust.
But what they did in College means nothing when they move up to the next level.

The draft isn't an exact science. And their are no "for sure" things.

They are called prospects for a reason. And they are given grades in particular rounds for a reason.

Hell, I just posted a quote from Mays Agent saying that Polamalu had 1 INT his Senior season
playing under the same coach. You want to tell me he isn't a play making Safety, even though
he didn't make a whole lot of big plays in College? I didn't think so.
Yet Polamalu had 68 tackles, 1 interception,4 pass defenses his Senior season.

Who the hell do you think has been mentioning Mays as one of the top prospects at his position
and as a 1st round pick? The same motherfuckers. They talk out of both sides of their mouths.


I think they are overly negative on Mays because he didn't make a lot of big plays.
And because his size, speed, work ethic and NFL bloodlines makes them think he
is too good to be true. So they talk about him like he can't do something. Even though
it was because he wasn't asked/coached to do something.

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='scharm' date='02 April 2010 - 11:03 AM' timestamp='1270220618' post='874744']
Last year the same dude trashed a USC LB all the way up until the Bengals selected him. Despite being so horrible according to this poster, as soon as this USC LB was drafted he became an instant hit for the bengals. Started from opening day, locking down a position that was not his natural position and helping the bengals have their best defense since the 80s.


This all sounds so familiar about Taylor Mays. I don't really care either way. But the anti Mays crowd is being biased, everything I read confirms this:

Top player last year. Solid top 25 player this year. So, I can't really think of why anybody would be against taking this player at 21.
[/quote]
I trashed Rey as worth the 6th pick. I questioned whether he was good enough to be an every down player in the NFL at MLB because of his coverage abilities. He was solid against the run this year no doubt, but he was not good in coverage. He had a decent year but was far from a great player.

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='02 April 2010 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1270243254' post='874830']
I think it is very ridiculous. Why aren't the same bust concerns placed on Berry or Thomas?
Keiwan Ratliff was a ball-hawking play making CB in the SEC. He was a bust.

Hell, you said Thomas was a "for sure thing". So you obviously don't think he could be a bust.
But what they did in College means nothing when they move up to the next level.

The draft isn't an exact science. And their are no "for sure" things.

They are called prospects for a reason. And they are given grades in particular rounds for a reason.

Hell, I just posted a quote from Mays Agent saying that Polamalu had 1 INT his Senior season
playing under the same coach. You want to tell me he isn't a play making Safety, even though
he didn't make a whole lot of big plays in College? I didn't think so.
Yet Polamalu had 68 tackles, 1 interception,4 pass defenses his Senior season.

Who the hell do you think has been mentioning Mays as one of the top prospects at his position
and as a 1st round pick? The same motherfuckers. They talk out of both sides of their mouths.


I think they are overly negative on Mays because he didn't make a lot of big plays.
And because his size, speed, work ethic and NFL bloodlines makes them think he
is too good to be true. So they talk about him like he can't do something. Even though
it was because he wasn't asked/coached to do something.
[/quote]
So you don't believe the numerous scouts who are bashing him because they are "trying to make him fall to their team", yet his agent who is paid to pimp him is a genius for comparing him to Polamalu?? It seems as though you are just picking and choosing who to believe to further your "Mays is the greatest safety prospect of all time" agenda.

I have acknowledged that Mays has some good qualities, you act like he has no weaknesses.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='akiliMVP' date='02 April 2010 - 06:00 PM' timestamp='1270245633' post='874842']
So you don't believe the numerous scouts who are bashing him because they are "trying to make him fall to their team", yet his agent who is paid to pimp him is a genius for comparing him to Polamalu?? It seems as though you are just picking and choosing who to believe to further your "Mays is the greatest safety prospect of all time" agenda.

[b]I have acknowledged that Mays has some good qualities, you act like he has no weaknesses.[/b]
[/quote]


so in other words he treats Mays how you treat Thomas?

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='Bengals1181' date='02 April 2010 - 06:04 PM' timestamp='1270245843' post='874843']
so in other words he treats Mays how you treat Thomas?
[/quote]
I haven't said a thing about Thomas in days.

And no I said Thomas is not the greatest against the run. I can't find the post though so you probably won't believe me.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='akiliMVP' date='02 April 2010 - 05:00 PM' timestamp='1270245633' post='874842']
So you don't believe the numerous scouts who are bashing him because they are "trying to make him fall to their team", yet his agent who is paid to pimp him is a genius for comparing him to Polamalu?? It seems as though you are just picking and choosing who to believe to further your "Mays is the greatest safety prospect of all time" agenda.

I have acknowledged that Mays has some good qualities, you act like he has no weaknesses.
[/quote]



I don't think he is the greatest safety prospect ever. Or he wouldn't even be in the
conversation at #21. Again, we aren't picking in the top 10 this year. Unbelievable I know.

I think there are concerns. But I think every prospect has concerns.
I think his are way overblown by scouts and haters on here though.
I mean to hear (read) some of you talk (type). He is the worst prospect
ever and should already be labeled a bust.

And his agent stated a fact about Polamalu. He had similar stats
to what Mays had his Senior season playing for the same coach.
All he did was point it out.

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='02 April 2010 - 06:37 PM' timestamp='1270247831' post='874851']
I don't think he is the greatest safety prospect ever. Or he wouldn't even be in the
conversation at #21. Again, we aren't picking in the top 10 this year. Unbelievable I know.

I think there are concerns. But I think every prospect has concerns.
I think his are way overblown by scouts and haters on here though.
I mean to hear (read) some of you talk (type). He is the worst prospect
ever and should already be labeled a bust.

And his agent stated a fact about Polamalu. He had similar stats
to what Mays had his Senior season playing for the same coach.
All he did was point it out.
[/quote]
When another poster here pointed at that Darnell Bing had far superior stats as a safety at USC, you discounted their opinion. What's the difference? Polamalu was a far better player at USC, regardless of stats. He was good in coverage and was also a great tackler. Him and Mays do not compare outside of they played the same position at USC. Well Polamalu was actually a strong safety while Mays played free.

What are your concerns with Mays?

[oldschooler]

[quote name='akiliMVP' date='02 April 2010 - 06:08 PM' timestamp='1270249691' post='874855']
When another poster here pointed at that Darnell Bing had far superior stats as a safety at USC, you discounted their opinion. What's the difference? Polamalu was a far better player at USC, regardless of stats. He was good in coverage and was also a great tackler. Him and Mays do not compare outside of they played the same position at USC. Well Polamalu was actually a strong safety while Mays played free.

What are your concerns with Mays?
[/quote]



*sigh*

I am not discounting anyone's opinion anymore than my opinion is being discounted.

Bing is a lot slower and a lot weaker. What other comparison is there between the
2 other than they both played at USC? So right back at you with that crap. LOL

And Mays had 96 tackles this past season. You think he sucks at it?

Yes he went for the big hit over wrapping up a lot. That is coaching.

And my concerns are what everyone's concerns are. His pass defense skills.
I said he has "problems". But I think his problems are something a good coach
can help him fix. I think it is something that he can be coached up on. I have said as
much about 100 times already though.

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='02 April 2010 - 07:20 PM' timestamp='1270250432' post='874856']
*sigh*

I am not discounting anyone's opinion anymore than my opinion is being discounted.

Bing is a lot slower and a lot weaker. What other comparison is there between the
2 other than they both played at USC? So right back at you with that crap. LOL

And Mays had 96 tackles this past season. You think he sucks at it?

Yes he went for the big hit over wrapping up a lot. That is coaching.

And my concerns are what everyone's concerns are. His pass defense skills.
I said he has "problems". But I think his problems are something a good coach
can help him fix. I think it is something that he can be coached up on. I have said as
much about 100 times already though.
[/quote]
So why do you think his pass coverage skills are weak? Do you think it is technique, intelligence, work ethic or something physical?

Tackles are the worst stat ever to try and say a prospect is good at something.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='akiliMVP' date='02 April 2010 - 06:23 PM' timestamp='1270250618' post='874857']
So why do you think his pass coverage skills are weak? Do you think it is technique, intelligence, work ethic or something physical?

Tackles are the worst stat ever to try and say a prospect is good at something.
[/quote]


Why are you trying to get me to harp on his negatives?
You and others do that enough for me.

I don't know if they are weak or not. He wasn't coached coverage skills.
That is something he will have to be coached up on.

His work ethic is said to be impeccable.

I think he has all the tools. The thing is getting a coach that can utilize those skills.
Again, I have said about 100 times.

Good coaching can make good players great and great players elite.

[Oldcat]

Also, I think our coaches are good enough judges of talent to tell which side of the divide he is on.
If they pick him, he will be able to play, assuming he avoids injury

[scharm]

[quote name='akiliMVP' date='02 April 2010 - 05:54 PM' timestamp='1270245293' post='874838']
I trashed Rey as worth the 6th pick. I questioned whether he was good enough to be an every down player in the NFL at MLB because of his coverage abilities. He was solid against the run this year no doubt, but he was not good in coverage. He had a decent year but was far from a great player.
[/quote]


Well, clearly you were off base. The Bengals are drafting 21, not top 10. Mays fits in that range.

[bengaled]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='02 April 2010 - 06:37 PM' timestamp='1270247831' post='874851']
I don't think he is the greatest safety prospect ever. Or he wouldn't even be in the
conversation at #21. Again, we aren't picking in the top 10 this year. Unbelievable I know.

I think there are concerns. But I think every prospect has concerns.
I think his are way overblown by scouts and haters on here though.
I mean to hear (read) some of you talk (type). He is the worst prospect
ever and should already be labeled a bust.

And his agent stated a fact about Polamalu. He had similar stats
to what Mays had his Senior season playing for the same coach.
All he did was point it out.
[/quote]


old, are you aware that troy played his entire senior year on a busted up ankle? this, more than anything else, resulted in his sub-par stats. the argument his agent, and you, are making in reference to him (troy), doesn't hold water. mays is a good prospect. i think we all can agree on that. the concern many have is with all the question marks on him, and you'd have to admit there seem to be many, is he the best pick we could make at 21? personally, i think if we take a safety that high, i want more of an established ball-hawk in the passing game vs. a crunching hit marvin white type safety.

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='02 April 2010 - 07:35 PM' timestamp='1270251335' post='874858']
Why are you trying to get me to harp on his negatives?
You and others do that enough for me.

I don't know if they are weak or not. He wasn't coached coverage skills.
That is something he will have to be coached up on.

His work ethic is said to be impeccable.

I think he has all the tools. The thing is getting a coach that can utilize those skills.
Again, I have said about 100 times.

Good coaching can make good players great and great players elite.
[/quote]
How can you say he wasn't coached coverage skills???????

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='scharm' date='02 April 2010 - 08:05 PM' timestamp='1270253125' post='874862']
Well, clearly you were off base. The Bengals are drafting 21, not top 10. Mays fits in that range.
[/quote]
What are you talking about? How was I off base by saying Rey shouldn't be picked 6th? Clearly I wasn't since he dropped to the 2nd round. Do you think he played like a 6th pick this season? I didn't say anything about Mays in that post.

I've never once said Mays isn't worth a 1st round pick. I just don't want him to be our pick because I think he is never going to live up to his hype, just like he did at USC. Same as Gholston and other people who I thought would be busts. They are worth the pick because of their potential. Whether I believe they will reach that potential is another story. Just like Bradford. Is he worth the #1 pick like everyone is projecting? Probably, because he has the tools to be a good QB. Do I think he's going to be a good player? Heck no.

[bengaled]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='02 April 2010 - 07:35 PM' timestamp='1270251335' post='874858']
Why are you trying to get me to harp on his negatives?
You and others do that enough for me.

I don't know if they are weak or not. He wasn't coached coverage skills.
That is something he will have to be coached up on.

His work ethic is said to be impeccable.

I think he has all the tools. The thing is getting a coach that can utilize those skills.
Again, I have said about 100 times.

Good coaching can make good players great and great players elite.
[/quote]

so pete carroll, former (and current) head coach, defensive co-ordinator, and defensive backs coach in the NFL, now isn't considered a good coach? come on, that goes a bit too far. and he's always had some of the best, and highest paid assistants, as well...many of whom have gone on to the pro game themselves. i'd say ANY defensive back that's been in the trojan's system has had their share of some of the best coaching available in college football.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='bengaled' date='02 April 2010 - 07:24 PM' timestamp='1270254282' post='874863']
old, are you aware that troy played his entire senior year on a busted up ankle? this, more than anything else, resulted in his sub-par stats. the argument his agent, and you, are making in reference to him (troy), doesn't hold water. mays is a good prospect. i think we all can agree on that. the concern many have is with all the question marks on him, and you'd have to admit there seem to be many, is he the best pick we could make at 21? personally, i think if we take a safety that high, i want more of an established ball-hawk in the passing game vs. a crunching hit marvin white type safety.
[/quote]


So him missing half a game, in which he sprained his ankle, in the 5th game of the season
sat out the 6th game, and that equals he did that on a busted up ankle, huh?

And Mays has now been compared to Bing, Ndukwe, Tomas Davis and Marvin White.

Oh, and a poor mans Roy Williams. LOL


[quote name='akiliMVP' date='02 April 2010 - 07:32 PM' timestamp='1270254723' post='874864']
How can you say he wasn't coached coverage skills???????
[/quote]


He said he wasn't coached it. I posted it a couple of times already!!!!!!!!!!!11111


Mays had 4 INTs as a freshman. And he had 9 pass defenses as a Junior.
You think that shit was a fluke?

[oldschooler]

[quote name='bengaled' date='02 April 2010 - 07:41 PM' timestamp='1270255289' post='874866']
so pete carroll, former (and current) head coach, defensive co-ordinator, and defensive backs coach in the NFL, now isn't considered a good coach? come on, that goes a bit too far. and he's always had some of the best, and highest paid assistants, as well...many of whom have gone on to the pro game themselves. i'd say ANY defensive back that's been in the trojan's system has had their share of some of the best coaching available in college football.
[/quote]


Pete Carroll wasn't their Defensive Co-ordinator.

It is like when people said shit about Marvin "supposededly" being a Defensive guru
and the Bengals Defense sucked. Marvin was still a Defensive guru. He just didn't
coach the damn Defense. Carroll called the plays. But he didn't coach them.

USC's D-coach Nick Holt, left to go to the Washington Huskies in 2009.

Mays lost a ton of talent in front of him and his Defensive co-ordinator.
His new coach, Rocky Seto, said and I quote "Taylor [Mays] has done a really nice job of staying on top and taking care of the deep ball."

He was asked to play off the line. Even more so this past season with a ton of new faces
and a new D-coach.

[bengaled]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='02 April 2010 - 09:00 PM' timestamp='1270256437' post='874867']
So him missing half a game, in which he sprained his ankle, in the 5th game of the season
sat out the 6th game, and that equals he did that on a busted up ankle, huh?


[/quote]


he played the first four games healthy. he busted up his ankle in the fifth game. sat out the 6th game. it was classified as a nagging ankle sprain and limited his effectiveness for the rest of the year. considering the trojans played 14 games that year, yeah, i'd call that playing most of the year on a busted up ankle. then in the orange bowl, he suffered a hamstring injury and was only in on 2 plays. don't believe me? read the link for yourself.

http://www.usctrojans.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/polamalu_troy00.html

[oldschooler]

[quote name='bengaled' date='02 April 2010 - 08:18 PM' timestamp='1270257532' post='874869']
he played the first four games healthy. he busted up his ankle in the fifth game. sat out the 6th game. it was classified as a nagging ankle sprain and limited his effectiveness for the rest of the year. considering the trojans played 14 games that year, yeah, i'd call that playing most of the year on a busted up ankle. then in the orange bowl, he suffered a hamstring injury and was only in on 2 plays. don't believe me? read the link for yourself.

[url="http://www.usctrojans.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/polamalu_troy00.html"]http://www.usctrojan...alu_troy00.html[/url]
[/quote]


I know his history. I just said it to you in the post you quoted. LOL

He had a game high 13 tackles in his 3rd game back. So it wasn't too damn nagging was it?
Oh wait, it says in your link it was. Oh wait, no it doesn't. hahaha

He had some of his best games of the season after he returned from the ankle sprain.