Moving ahead with Rayner and Nugent

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Tigris' date='15 June 2010 - 05:35 PM' timestamp='1276641356' post='893172']
So did they go 3-3 or 4-4????
[/quote]




Reedy was using the metric system.

[F.Cleveland]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='15 June 2010 - 07:34 PM' timestamp='1276644888' post='893211']
Reedy was using the metric system.
[/quote]
Either that, or we have a midget kicking battle going down and no one told us.

[oldschooler]

[size="5"][b]Simmons kick starts the competition[/b]
[/size]By GEOFF HOBSON

Updated: 7:10 p.m.

The Bengals' kicking competition is officially on.

Kicking under the intense pressure of knowing a successful kick would cut short practice on the hottest day of the year, [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/dave-rayner/a525fd69-d4ad-40ab-aab4-b1e60d2b4203/"][color="#f04e23"]Dave Rayner[img]http://www.bengals.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/color][/url] hit a 42-yard field goal and [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/mike-nugent/44701177-8bcb-4bb1-a348-e81af4d4583a/"][color="#f04e23"]Mike Nugent[img]http://www.bengals.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/color][/url] hit a 46-yarder to allow their teammates to gratefully walk off to the showers at the end of Tuesday's second practice. If Rayner hit his, half the plays would be cut out of the final script. If Nugent hit his, the other half would be cut.

"Yeah, I'm happy they hit them. I'd say 90 guys are happy," said specials teams coach Darrin Simmons. "It's a competition. ... This won't be the last one."

Both kickers hit all four of their tries, Rayner from 27, 30, 38 and 42, and Nugent from 30, 34, 42 and 46. [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/clark-harris/e5dda952-317e-4192-b234-2163bdf10f3c/"][color="#f04e23"]Clark Harris[img]http://www.bengals.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/color][/url] snapped and punter [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/kevin-huber/1d34c7f7-455d-407c-9f66-9df83696a5da/"][color="#f04e23"]Kevin Huber[img]http://www.bengals.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/color][/url] held for all eight kicks. University of Cincinnati rookie long snapper [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/mike-windt/d534571c-db3a-4b1d-940f-53fd6fd51950/"][color="#f04e23"]Mike Windt[img]http://www.bengals.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/color][/url], unable to practice until last week because of NFL rules, could get the next round.

Simmons had no idea both were perfect because he only watched the last two kicks. That must mean things are going well in this post-Shayne Graham era.

"If I'm watching the snap, the hold and the kick, then we've got issues," Simmons said. "That should be the last thing on my mind because I'm watching them individually kick for 30 to 45 minutes a day."

Simmons is watching the protection because he can watch the kicks on tape. And even though these were just kicks to end a hot spring practice, don't think it won't be documented.

"You only have an X amount of opportunities. Nothing is guaranteed at any point," Simmons said. "Anybody can get the plug pulled at any time. Anytime you get an opportunity to perform, you better perform."

Both Nugent and Rayner figure to make the 80-man roster for training camp to continue the competition into a preseason that has one more game than usual with five.

Also Tuesday:

Rookie linebacker [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/roddrick-muckelroy/b1bf7caf-486c-469a-97b4-cc13064cb140/"][color="#f04e23"]Roddrick Muckelroy[img]http://www.bengals.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/color][/url] broke his hand in the morning practice, but should be back in time for training camp...Quarterback [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/carson-palmer/b2e2fb04-af84-4af9-9491-5c1dd3354623/"][color="#f04e23"]Carson Palmer[img]http://www.bengals.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/color][/url] had a tough time getting the ball to running back [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/brian-leonard/c6204230-e3c1-41f5-8859-8bbb950b7631/"][color="#f04e23"]Brian Leonard[img]http://www.bengals.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/color][/url] on some check-downs in the afternoon practice. He led him over the middle but WILL linebacker Brandon Johnson was there to pick it off and could have gone all the way. Cornerback [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/leon-hall/0f379744-8ae4-4952-8f53-75c2f38f43ec/"][color="#f04e23"]Leon Hall[img]http://www.bengals.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/color][/url], who had a pick six in the morning, then made a nice lunging catch backward when Leonard broke the other way...

Palmer did click with The Ocho for a 20-yard completion over the middle...Incumbent Kevin Huber punted in the morning and [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/jake-richardson/ea2fbb55-2d68-455e-8a32-5b88f24b2723/"][color="#f04e23"]Jake Richardson[img]http://www.bengals.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/color][/url] in the afternoon. Wide receiver [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/quan-cosby/dda6ada9-e879-4e25-b45b-38085f6b3080/"][color="#f04e23"]Quan Cosby[img]http://www.bengals.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/color][/url], cornerback [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/adam-jones/70893f56-2c88-4a74-93ec-15f2886cca42/"][color="#f04e23"]Adam Jones[img]http://www.bengals.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/color][/url], and rookie wide receiver [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/jordan-shipley/0f74ae94-e07a-4266-9bf9-c62ea5d54e9c/"][color="#f04e23"]Jordan Shipley[img]http://www.bengals.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/color][/url] took turns catching.



[url="http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Simmons-kick-starts-the-competition/e869d344-f49e-49a4-8e61-24bfe40408bf"]http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Simmons-kick-starts-the-competition/e869d344-f49e-49a4-8e61-24bfe40408bf[/url]

[Inigo Montoya]

Competition, along with the realization that this might be their last good opportunity to win a starting job in the NFL, might just bring out the best in Nugent and Rayner. This is one training camp battle that is going to be tough to predict, but I'm confident that whoever wins the job will have earned it.

[oldschooler]

The practice concluded with Mike Nugent and Dave Rayner renewing their kicking duel. Rayner was 3 of 4 — he made them from 34, 38 and 52 yards before being short from 54. Nugent made all four of his from 40, 44, 52 and 54 yards. Nugent was 12 of 12 and Rayner was 11 of 12 over the three days.




[url="http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2010/06/17/617-minicamp-is-over/"]http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2010/06/17/617-minicamp-is-over/[/url]

[Jamie_B]

I like hearing they are doing well on their FGs now what about their kickoffs?

[Inigo Montoya]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='17 June 2010 - 01:52 PM' timestamp='1276797174' post='893542']
I like hearing they are doing well on their FGs now what about their kickoffs?
[/quote]



[quote]

The kicking derby ended just about even heading into camp. [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/mike-nugent/44701177-8bcb-4bb1-a348-e81af4d4583a/"][color="#f04e23"]Mike Nugent[img]http://www.bengals.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/color][/url] and [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/dave-rayner/a525fd69-d4ad-40ab-aab4-b1e60d2b4203/"][color="#f04e23"]Dave Rayner[img]http://www.bengals.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/color][/url] each went 4-for-4 the first two days until Rayner was short by about two yards on his last try, a 54-yarder. Rayner finished 11-for-12 while Mike Nugent hit all 12 that included his 54-yarder just after Rayner's miss. Nugent also hit from 40, 44 and 52 while Rayner hit from 34, 38 and 52 Thursday. [b]A big question about Nugent is his power on kickoffs, but it looked like he went longer than Rayner Thursday with one to the goal line and a couple close to it.[/b]

[/quote]


http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Thursday-update-Camp-Quiet-ends-quietly-Shipley-has-loud-impact/2df97cda-4ab9-4b48-aced-6beca93c230d

[Jamie_B]

thanks

[JBandJoeyV]

Didnt nuge used to kick every kick like 8 yards deep in the endzone in college?

I know its 5 yards back and stuff, but you think he would still be able to get it to the goaline often.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='CJandRudiJ' date='17 June 2010 - 08:48 PM' timestamp='1276829301' post='893617']
Didnt nuge used to kick every kick like 8 yards deep in the endzone in college?

I know its 5 yards back and stuff, but you think he would still be able to get it to the goaline often.
[/quote]

different distance and ball, and his kickoff stats were worse than Shaynes...in the nfl..

he was unemployed for a reason, as was reyner, as was Shayne this past offseason... just a matter of who can collect themselves and product... what any of them did in college dont matter.. different monster all together... has marks are different too,

[JBandJoeyV]

[quote name='GoBengals' date='17 June 2010 - 11:14 PM' timestamp='1276830864' post='893621']
different distance and ball, and his kickoff stats were worse than Shaynes...in the nfl..

he was unemployed for a reason, as was reyner, as was Shayne this past offseason... just a matter of who can collect themselves and product... what any of them did in college dont matter.. different monster all together... has marks are different too,
[/quote]

I understand that with field goals and stuff, just think its kinda crazy the ball has such a huge effect on kick offs.

But either way, Im hoping for nuge just cause he at least has some experience/success in the nfl. But if Rayner wins then so be it, just hope whoever it is can make clutch fgs and be dependable.

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='CJandRudiJ' date='18 June 2010 - 11:19 AM' timestamp='1276831156' post='893623']
I understand that with field goals and stuff, just think its kinda crazy the ball has such a huge effect on kick offs.

But either way, Im hoping for nuge just cause he at least has some experience/success in the nfl. But if Rayner wins then so be it, just hope whoever it is can make clutch fgs and be dependable.
[/quote]
An old SI article on the K ball used in the NFL:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1017189/1/index.htm

[oldschooler]

[b][url="http://cincinnati.com/blogs/ludwig/2010/06/17/mike-nugent-vs-dave-rayner/"][size="5"]Mike Nugent vs. Dave Rayner[/size][/url][size="5"] [/size][/b]
Posted by [email="chickludwig@yahoo.com"]cludwig[/email] June 17th, 2010, 2:39 pm

The words on the wall in Paul Brown Stadium's weight room say it all:

[i][b]As steel sharpens steel, so one man sharpens another[/b][/i]

Dave Rayner sharpens Mike Nugent.

And …

Mike Nugent sharpens Dave Rayner.

Position battles are everywhere on the Cincinnati Bengals' roster and among them is the struggle for the legal tender at kicker.

The two Big Ten studs — Rayner (Michigan State) and Nugent (Ohio State) — are in a heated, toe-to-toe, heel-to-heel, foot-to-foot competition for the right to supplant Shayne Graham, who spurned the Bengals' contract overtures and signed with Baltimore.

It won't be easy to bury Graham's memory, but the former Spartan and former Buckeye are trying.

I distinctly remember former head coach Bruce Coslet telling the media years ago that kickers "need to get kicked around" the league before they settle in and find a home.

Rayner and Nugent have been kicked around like soccer balls in South Africa these days.

Rayner was picked by the Indianapolis Colts in the sixth round of the 2005 NFL Draft (No. 202 overall). And the odyssey began — from Indy to Green Bay to Kansas City to San Diego to Miami to Detroit to Cincinnati to Washington to Cincinnati again.

[url="http://www.nfl.com/players/daverayner/profile?id=RAY750488"][color="#9c070c"][url="http://www.nfl.com/players/daverayner/profile?id=RAY750488"]http://www.nfl.com/p...le?id=RAY750488[/url][/color][/url]


Nugent was selected by the New York Jets in Round 2 (No. 47 overall) in 2005 — the Jets' top pick because they didn't have a first rounder that season.

He lasted four seasons with the Jets (2005-08), then went rumblin' and stumblin' through Tampa Bay and Arizona in 2009 before signing with Cincinnati in the offseason.

[url="http://www.nfl.com/players/mikenugent/profile?id=NUG461506"][color="#9c070c"][url="http://www.nfl.com/players/mikenugent/profile?id=NUG461506"]http://www.nfl.com/p...le?id=NUG461506[/url][/color][/url]

Here's what it'll come down to in The Nati: The kicker's total body of work. Not just field-goal accuracy, but the height, depth and direction of kickoffs. In other words, consistency.

"It's going to be everything," Nugent said. "The team doesn't want a guy who can just kick field goals or just kickoff. You have to put everything together.

"You see how different teams do it. You just have to keep the ball straight, do your job and control the things you can control."

The kicking competition is a close race, razor sharp and heated, that will likely last all of training camp and the preseason. It will sort itself out.




[url="http://cincinnati.com/blogs/ludwig/2010/06/17/mike-nugent-vs-dave-rayner/"]http://cincinnati.com/blogs/ludwig/2010/06/17/mike-nugent-vs-dave-rayner/[/url]

[Hooky]

I think that there's a real good chance that neither one of them will be the kicker this season. There's also still a chance that Shayne could be back. Who knows which kickers will be available in the waning days before the season starts.

[BengalSIS]

I'm glad to see the kicking competition so close. Shayne is also doing well in his (and if I may brag, it included going 4-4 with a long of 60 that had extra distance).

Rayner and Nuge may both get to use this opportunity to bounce back in the NFL. They are both strong kickers. I'm still leaning towards Nuge as he has shown more overall dependability I would think. If he can stay away from injuries.

I'm also feeling a bit vindicated that their kickoffs aren't sailing through the endzone on these warm minicamp days... I've stated all along that Shayne's kicks were far better than most understood. At least now, others can prove my point.

[Hooky]

[quote name='BengalSIS' date='18 June 2010 - 09:42 AM' timestamp='1276868540' post='893679']
I'm glad to see the kicking competition so close. Shayne is also doing well in his (and if I may brag, it included going 4-4 with a long of 60 that had extra distance).

Rayner and Nuge may both get to use this opportunity to bounce back in the NFL. They are both strong kickers. I'm still leaning towards Nuge as he has shown more overall dependability I would think. If he can stay away from injuries.

I'm also feeling a bit vindicated that their kickoffs aren't sailing through the endzone on these warm minicamp days... I've stated all along that Shayne's kicks were far better than most understood. At least now, others can prove my point.
[/quote]

Good luck, Shayne. I wasn't implying that he would lose his tryout against Cundiff. Just stating that it's possible that he and other really good kickers good be available. Isn't that how they got Shayne in the first place? When he barely got beat out by Kasay? It would be nice for the Bengals to luck out like that again.

But back to topic, I think Nuge would be the favorite, based on his and Rayner's career thus far. But I won't pretend to know which one is better.

[BengalSIS]

[quote name='Hooky' date='18 June 2010 - 10:04 AM' timestamp='1276869887' post='893684']
Good luck, Shayne. I wasn't implying that he would lose his tryout against Cundiff. Just stating that it's possible that he and other really good kickers good be available. Isn't that how they got Shayne in the first place? When he barely got beat out by Kasay? It would be nice for the Bengals to luck out like that again.

But back to topic, I think Nuge would be the favorite, based on his and Rayner's career thus far. But I won't pretend to know which one is better.
[/quote]


Oh yeah, no worries, I wasn't implying anything about your comments specifically about Shayne. I suspect many good kickers are found the same way as not many teams are willing to pay "draft" prices for a kicker. I see the fascination with Jano's leg strength for instance, but his accuracy has been suspect on many occasions, and I would argue that his price was far higher than necessary from the start.

Here's hoping you guys get a "Nug"get with the Nuge. No ill will to Rayner, just saying I think Ohio is hoping for Nuge to sign, and I think he's the fan favorite. (Although since neither one are Shayne, each would be welcomed with open arms )

[Oldcat]

[quote name='Hooky' date='18 June 2010 - 05:00 AM' timestamp='1276862402' post='893666']
I think that there's a real good chance that neither one of them will be the kicker this season. There's also still a chance that Shayne could be back. Who knows which kickers will be available in the waning days before the season starts.
[/quote]

Yes, but barring a breakdown by both of them in preseason, you'd think we'd go with what we know. Now if they lose it in the regular season, we might change in mid-flight, like the Ravens did last year when the young kicker that beat out Stover flaked out in the real games.