Squirrlnutz Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 [url="http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/10/nebraska-abortion-law-tragic/"]http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/10/nebraska-abortion-law-tragic/[/url] Only curious what you thought because this seems to be a rather unique case and amidst all the "budget problems" there has been an awful lot of time spent talking about new bills that roll back womens' rights. [quote]Since the start of the year, Republican lawmakers on the federal and state level have charged headlong into a comprehensive assault on a woman’s right to choose. In Nebraska, one law already in existence heaped needless trauma on a mother’s tragedy. Thirty-four-year-old Danielle Deaver was 23 weeks pregnant when she faced a fate “worse than your own death” — her baby would not make it. Her water broke early and, without amniotic fluid, the fetus would not develop lungs to survive outside the womb. Deaver and her husband decided they wanted to let “nature take it’s course” and would not risk harming the child further, so they asked their doctor to help “put an end to this nightmare.” But because of Nebraska’s law prohibiting any abortion after 20 weeks, the doctor could not assist or he would “face criminal charges, jail time, and lose his medical license.” Her doctors told her “she’d just have to wait.” So she did, in “torture,” and gave birth to Elizabeth at 3pm, watched her gasp for breath, and then watched her die at 3:15pm on December 8, 2010. [b]“The outcome of my pregnancy, that choice was made by God,” said Deaver, but “how to handle the end of my pregnancy, that choice should’ve been mine.”[/b] “If they thought about their daughter, their sister, their mother, their wife being in this situation, they would never want them to go through that,” Deavers said of the legislators who created the law. Yesterday, in a 94-2 vote, the Oklahoma House passed a bill banning abortions after 20 weeks [u]based on the dubious assumption the fetus “can feel pain.”[/u] Oregon, Minnesota, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Florida, Missouri, and Ohio are also considering joining the 31 states that currently have such a ban. Should these states successfully push the ban through, Danielle Deaver’s personal tragedy may become a common expectation.[/quote] I think the bolded is pretty powerful. And the underlined comes into question here too. Don't kill the baby because it can feel pain, instead let it come out and suffocate to death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 special case, not the norm, needs to have an exception that is used vary rarely for cases only like this where death is going to happen anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Sorry. Everything is black and white. You let this lady have an abortion and next thing you know they gays will be aborting Christian babies in the streets. [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1299870078' post='976645'] special case, not the norm, needs to have an exception that is used vary rarely for cases only like this where death is going to happen anyway. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 [quote name='Ben' timestamp='1299870382' post='976647'] Sorry. Everything is black and white. [b] You let this lady have an abortion and next thing you know they gays will be aborting Christian babies in the streets.[/b] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1299870990' post='976651'] [/quote] I can see the joke flying over your head from here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1299870078' post='976645'] special case, not the norm, needs to have an exception that is used vary rarely for cases only like this where death is going to happen anyway. [/quote] This. Oh, and there is nothing "dubious" about the "assumption" that a 20 week old fetus can feel pain. An unborn child has a hearbeat and brainwaves by 40 days. And sonograms have shown that the unborn child responds to sensory input. If you don't believe me, go to youtube and search for The Silent Scream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 [quote name='Ben' timestamp='1299870382' post='976647'] Sorry. Everything is black and white. You let this lady have an abortion and next thing you know they gays will be aborting Christian babies in the streets. [/quote] HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Ben' timestamp='1299870382' post='976647'] Sorry. Everything is black and white. You let this lady have an abortion and next thing you know they gays will be aborting Christian babies in the streets. [/quote] Only they will be doing it with [i]fabulously[/i] decorated wire coat hangars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote]Three pregnancies ended in miscarriages. Danielle had suffered anhydramnios, a premature rupture of the membranes before a fetus has achieved viability. anhydramnios=inevitable lethal outcome[/quote] In other words, in either case she was going to give birth to a dead baby regardless of which way this went. However, in an effort to be fair I looked at the other side of the fence. The baby had a name: Elizabeth Deavers. [quote]The absence of clinical symptoms strongly suggests a preexisting weak spot in the uterine wall, presumably resulting from an unrecognized perforation at a previous curettage procedure. Danielle Deaver…was prevented by the law from having an abortion for a fetus doctors said wouldn’t survive if born. Doctors told Deaver and her husband that there “was less than a 10 percent chance their child would have a heartbeat and be able to breathe on its own,” the Register reported. “There was an even smaller chance — estimated at 2 percent — that the baby would ultimately be able to perform the most basic functions on its own, such as eating.” if the baby was being smashed because her water broke, as she described, would an abortion even be safe? Would the abortionist have room to move his instruments and to tear the baby apart (exposing sharp pieces of bone) without injuring her uterine wall? Or, using the alternate method, would the abortionist have the ability to accurately inject the baby with the poison to stop her heart if she was so squished in the womb?[/quote] In case you are wondering, curettage is a method of abortion. [b]If[/b] she had an abortion before all this went on, then the fact is she [b]might have [/b]contributed to the death of her baby by her prior actions (perhaps in Oklahoma or New Mexico). Also, in case you are wondering what kind of people voted on this... Gov. Dave Heineman (Republican Party) and 44 State Senators Following are the 44 State Senators who voted for last year's mid-term abortion ban: Adams, Dubas, Harms, Louden, Rogert, Ashford, Fischer, Heidemann, McCoy, Schilz, Avery, Flood, Howard, Mello, Stuthman, Campbell, Fulton, Janssen, Nelson, Sullivan, Carlson, Gay, Karpisek, Nordquist, Utter, Christensen, Giese, Krist, Pahls, Wallman, Coash, Gloor, Langemeier, Pankonin, White, Cornett, Hadley, Lathrop, Pirsch, Wightman, Dierks, Hansen, Lautenbaugh, Price Before you waste your time, there are quite a few democrats on that list. With all that being said, I think its up to the woman to make that decision and not at the hands of a politician who does not have the best interests of the woman at heart. Otherwise we are looking at a similar situation that the Soviet Union had. Stalin (and Ceausescu regime of Romania) banned abortion to promote population growth. Nazi Germany actually had it partially right (yup I said that) because they allowed for abortion if a woman gave her permission, and if the fetus was not yet viable (note: I am excluding the rule on heriditary diseases and eugenics). In Deaver's case the fetus was not viable IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted April 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 [quote name='Jason' timestamp='1299939662' post='976770'] This. [b]Oh, and there is nothing "dubious" about the "assumption" that a 20 week old fetus can feel pain.[/b] An unborn child has a hearbeat and brainwaves by 40 days. And sonograms have shown that the unborn child responds to sensory input. If you don't believe me, go to youtube and search for The Silent Scream. [/quote] I wanted to get back to you earlier and [url="http://thinkprogress.org/2011/04/07/idaho-almighty-abortion/"]this[/url] reminded (and angered) me. 1. Heartbeat and brainwaives do not equal the capacity to feel pain, that is currently best understood in terms of cortex and periphery connection development. 2. Sensory input response does not equal pain. It is likely reflex, unless gentle touching of full term babies can be considered painful. 3. Stress hormone release does not equal pain unless you consider brain-dead organ donors to be feeling pain during surgery. http://www.ansirh.org/_documents/research/late-abortion/FetalPain.FactSheet.6-2010.pdf http://www.rcog.org.uk/fetal-awareness-review-research-and-recommendations-practice <-- referenced on in the previous link For those that didn't click the first link, Idaho is passing a revised abortion bill that has no exception for rape or incest (past 20 weeks) because as one representitive put it the "hand of the Almighty" was at work and "his ways are higher than our ways." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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