|kennethmw| Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 I thought it came to 25. 20 upfront, 2.25 both of the first years and 6.5 the third. That's actually 30, not 30.5, damn shame I can't even add up my own contract! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 1181, are you sure you aren't Mike Brown? You sure are a tight ass and it ain't even your money. That's only a million a year more than the two year extension would have been, and he's considered one of the best if not the best RT in the league. 20 mill bonus, 2.25 a year 1st and second, guaranteed, that's 24.5 guaranteed and less than a 6 mill cap hit both years. 6.5 in 3, 7.5 in 4, and 7.75 in 5 and 6. that gives you cap hits of 9.83 in 3, 10.83 in 4, and 11.08 in 5 and 6. Now, I will admit, that's if you think his head's right now, but all indications are that it is. you just proved my point. You can't even definitively say he's the Best RT in the league, but you're willing to give him $2.5 million more PER SEASON than the next closest RT contract in the entire league. a 5yr $40 million contract is more than fair for a RT in today's market. Andre was already the highwater mark in the league at $7 million per season. a new contract at $8 million per season is more than fair. $1.5 million more per season than the next closest RT in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Whitworth isn't making crazy money(?) Maybe you can afford to give your RT really good money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 you just proved my point. You can't even definitively say he's the Best RT in the league, but you're willing to give him $2.5 million more PER SEASON than the next closest RT contract in the entire league. Is a team really going to be willing to give a guy with the issues Andre has had in the past, plus his offseason arrest, 9M per year to play RT? Once again im hoping he tests the market and its not as good as he hoped and he comes back year for maybe around 7M a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 you just proved my point. You can't even definitively say he's the Best RT in the league, but you're willing to give him $2.5 million more PER SEASON than the next closest RT contract in the entire league. 1181, you get too stuck on the numbers. Somebody is probably going to pay him that or thereabouts. Remember when Everyone bitched about Justin's contract? It 'doesn't look like they overpaid him that much now, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 1181, you get too stuck on the numbers. Somebody is probably going to pay him that or thereabouts. Remember when Everyone bitched about Justin's contract? It 'doesn't look like they overpaid him that much now, does it? duh. You can't talk contracts and ignore the numbers. That's dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 He could very well be our next left tackle as well. I do not think you can let this guy slip through the cracks. I feel like the reason he is at RT right now is because of his run blocking and how well Whit has been playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 He could very well be our next left tackle as well. I do not think you can let this guy slip through the cracks. I feel like the reason he is at RT right now is because of his run blocking and how well Whit has been playing. I wouldn't rule that out, but he's gotta lose a good 25lbs before he's in any shape to play LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 duh. You can't talk contracts and ignore the numbers. That's dumb. I'm not talking the numbers in the contract, 1181, I'm talking about looking at the way that contracts are structured in the NFL and the fact that you seem to want to low ball everyone. That's why I asked if you were Mike Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 you just proved my point. You can't even definitively say he's the Best RT in the league, but you're willing to give him $2.5 million more PER SEASON than the next closest RT contract in the entire league. a 5yr $40 million contract is more than fair for a RT in today's market. Andre was already the highwater mark in the league at $7 million per season. a new contract at $8 million per season is more than fair. $1.5 million more per season than the next closest RT in the league. The sky will fall around here (with those prone to be reactionary) but anything more than 8 million against the cap is too much and they should let him walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 I'm not talking the numbers in the contract, 1181, I'm talking about looking at the way that contracts are structured in the NFL and the fact that you seem to want to low ball everyone. That's why I asked if you were Mike Brown. I just advocated giving the already highest paid RT in the league a $1.5 million per season raise. That's lowballing him? Sure. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 The sky will fall around here (with those prone to be reactionary) but anything more than 8 million against the cap is too much and they should let him walk. The contract I listed has both of the first two years under 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 I wouldn't rule that out, but he's gotta lose a good 25lbs before he's in any shape to play LT. I doubt that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 I just advocated giving the already highest paid RT in the league a $1.5 million per season raise. That's lowballing him? :lol: Sure. So since he made 7 last year, you're saying 8.5? Then, why are we even debating this? Although this doesn't seem like you we're saying 1.5 million a season: a 5yr $40 million contract is more than fair for a RT in today's market. Andre was already the highwater mark in the league at $7 million per season. a new contract at $8 million per season is more than fair. $1.5 million more per season than the next closest RT in the league. That appears to be a million more, or the exact amount that the Bengals optioned out of. I don't know about you, but if I was negotiating a salary for myself and the company hadn't given me salary adjustment before because they were unsure they wanted me, and then decided they did want me, I sure wouldn't be talking about the Old Numbers. Would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 The contract I listed has both of the first two years under 6. Yeah and nearly 10 in year 3. Those are the kind of contracts that the steelers are dealing with right now. To an extent it makes sense to push some of the cost into the future but I'd rather pay a little more now than be inflexible in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 So since he made 7 last year, you're saying 8.5? Then, why are we even debating this? Although this doesn't seem like you we're saying 1.5 million a season: a 5yr $40 million contract is more than fair for a RT in today's market. Andre was already the highwater mark in the league at $7 million per season. a new contract at $8 million per season is more than fair. $1.5 million more per season than the next closest RT in the league. That appears to be a million more, or the exact amount that the Bengals optioned out of. I don't know about you, but if I was negotiating a salary for myself and the company hadn't given me salary adjustment before because they were unsure they wanted me, and then decided they did want me, I sure wouldn't be talking about the Old Numbers. Would you? my bad, yes a $1 million per season raise. a fair price when you were already the highest paid, and are still young enough that you know you can get more in an extension or new future contract. Let's put this another way, there are only seven LEFT Tackles in the league making $9 million per season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Harley| Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 I think negotiations will get ugly on this one. The Bengals have money and Smith's people expect to get a good chunk of it. There's no guarantee that Smith is resigned, but if I had to bet they'll get a deal done that neither side is super happy about. 6 years for 52 mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 I think negotiations will get ugly on this one. The Bengals have money and Smith's people expect to get a good chunk of it. There's no guarantee that Smith is resigned, but if I had to bet they'll get a deal done that neither side is super happy about. 6 years for 52 mil. the more I think about it, the more I think we might end up seeing another 4yr deal. That puts him at 30 at his next deal, young enough to still get another big payday. I don't think he'd want a 6yr deal, and maybe not even a 5. Him only having a 4yr rookie contract kind of shifts the years a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Yeah and nearly 10 in year 3. Those are the kind of contracts that the steelers are dealing with right now. To an extent it makes sense to push some of the cost into the future but I'd rather pay a little more now than be inflexible in the future. True, but think about it, the cap went up 2 mill this year, right? That 2mill provides 10 mill of cap space, based on the average contract in the NFL. If it only goes up 1.5 mill a year the next two years, then that's another 15 mill in cap space. And new TV contracts are signed in '14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 I think negotiations will get ugly on this one. The Bengals have money and Smith's people expect to get a good chunk of it. There's no guarantee that Smith is resigned, but if I had to bet they'll get a deal done that neither side is super happy about. 6 years for 52 mil. That's why I went 6 years, too. If you're going to pay him that kind of money, you want it to give you some contract security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Arguing over a mill here and a mill there. No one has really addressed the replacement question. One is a 2nd-Tier FA...not even treading water, and the other is wasting a first round pick on someone you pray to heaven can hit the ground running...or a 3rd-4th rounder you know won't. Show me different...I want to believe it. And lol @ Collins full-time anywhere. Too important a position to be fucking around with over a stray million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eva4ben-gal Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Doug Free was a fourth round pick. So was David Stewart. Imagine that. And Free is getting moved to guard because he sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Josh Kirkendall @CincyJungle In RE: to possible A.Smith market. After quick scan, top paid RT is D.Stewart (6/$38.9M), Diehl (6/$31M), Herremans (5/$27.1M). Might be off so going back to this, the per year average for the top 3 RT's after Andre (who was already the highest paid RT in the league) is $5.7 million per season. In other words, if there was a franchise tag just for Right Tackles, it would be around $5.7 million (and its actually ballooned thanks to Andre's $7 million per season). There's just no justification for giving a RT $9 million per season, more than 25 starting Left tackles in the league and more than $2.5 more per season than the next closest right tackle in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 True, but think about it, the cap went up 2 mill this year, right? That 2mill provides 10 mill of cap space, based on the average contract in the NFL. If it only goes up 1.5 mill a year the next two years, then that's another 15 mill in cap space. And new TV contracts are signed in '14. I definitely see what you're saying. The cap will go up therefore the percentage of a players contract, signed today, will be relatively less. Basically you're betting the cap will go up enough to justify an 11 million dollar RT in year 4. I guess that is possible. I just don't see the value of tying up that kind of money on a RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Arguing over a mill here and a mill there. No one has really addressed the replacement question. One is a 2nd-Tier FA...not even treading water, and the other is wasting a first round pick on someone you pray to heaven can hit the ground running...or a 3rd-4th rounder you know won't. Show me different...I want to believe it. And lol @ Collins full-time anywhere. Too important a position to be fucking around with over a stray million. What's the old saying "You're better to deal with the devil you know, rather than the devil you don't." If you're going to pay market, or even above market like my friend 1181 says I'm saying, then you probably are better to do it with Andre. Just look at the times we haven't, TJ and Bryant and Smith and Odom are a couple of the more recent ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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