Jason Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 I like Andre, but I don't know if I want to pay him top LT money. If I had assurance that Fluker would still be there at 21 I'd have no problem letting Andre walk at $9M a year. But we don't have that assurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 I'm still a neophyte with the responses and such. English: I respect your insight but why waste a 2nd or 3rd on a redundant WR. Either you're giving up on Mo and Jones or your not. Taking Woods or Patton (or similar 2 or 3 talent) doesn't improve the situation, it only waters it down. And you blew a valuable selection. That's simply not true. Taking a Woods, Hunter Or Hopkins in the 2nd gives the team a bonfire fringe #1 WR opposite Green. It's one thing to say that they will be fine with Sanu and Jones, but you absolutely can't claim they can't be improved on in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 I like Andre, but I don't know if I want to pay him top LT money. If I had assurance that Fluker would still be there at 21 I'd have no problem letting Andre walk at $9M a year. But we don't have that assurance. I watched Fluker yesterday. I honestly wouldn't take him until 37. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 True, but think about it, the cap went up 2 mill this year, right? That 2mill provides 10 mill of cap space, based on the average contract in the NFL. If it only goes up 1.5 mill a year the next two years, then that's another 15 mill in cap space. And new TV contracts are signed in '14. Is this what you call explaining it Kenneth? I don't see the explaining part. How does 2M bump provide 10 mil in cap space. Maybe 10 in total money but its still just 2 mil a year. Your comment doesn't make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Andre Smith reportedly wants $9 million per year Cincinnati Bengals right tackle Andre Smith is looking for $9 million per year on the open market, ProFootballTalk reported. The Cincinnati Enquirer's Joe Reedy talked to agents and contract advisers at the NFL Scouting Combine and feels Smith will command a deal in the $8.5-$9.5 million per year range. At just 26 years old, Smith will get it.Smith becomes a free agent after just four years because of a stipulation in his rookie deal that required the Bengals to pay a $4.75 million option bonus in 2011 to pick up the final two years. He combined for just five starts in his first two years due to injuries, which made the Bengals reluctant to pick up the option. Now, the 2009 No. 6 overall pick has developed into one of the top right tackles in the game. The Bengals used the franchise tag on defensive end Michael Johnson and have the most cap room in the league ($55.5 million). The team has invested in the offensive line with Pro Bowl left tackle Andrew Whitworth and center Kyle Cook locked down. Smith would provide stability amongst the group for years to come. It'll cost the Bengals to keep Smith, but it's normally wise to invest in a young talented tackle. Especially with a young offensive corps led quarterback Andy Dalton and wide receiver A.J. Green. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000146548/article/report-cincinnati-bengals-rt-andre-smith-wants-9-million-per-year?campaign=Twitter_atl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Another option would be to resign him and move him to LT in two years when Whit will be 33 and entering the last year of his deal and they will be looking for his longterm replacement anyway. Move the 28yr old Andre to LT and the 33yr old Whit to RT. You may even be able to get another year or two out of Whit at RT. You keep the weight clause in for Andre to ensure he'll be in LT shape, pay him like a RT for the first two years and then give him LT money for the final 3-4 years of the deal. Maybe even structure the weight clause so that he has to be at a LT weight by that third year. Andre gets the money he wants, the Bengals get their future replacement for Whit and ensures he only gets his money if he stays in shape. If he doesn't keep the weight down, his pay is kept at RT level, and you draft Whit's replacement and groom him for a year and keep Andre at RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Ross Tucker@RossTuckerNFL Andre Smith is my #1 buyer beware in free agency. Giving huge $ to guy with history of laziness & weight issues is bad recipe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|westside bengal| Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Another option would be to resign him and move him to LT in two years when Whit will be 33 and entering the last year of his deal and they will be looking for his longterm replacement anyway. Move the 28yr old Andre to LT and the 33yr old Whit to RT. You may even be able to get another year or two out of Whit at RT. You keep the weight clause in for Andre to ensure he'll be in LT shape, pay him like a RT for the first two years and then give him LT money for the final 3-4 years of the deal. Maybe even structure the weight clause so that he has to be at a LT weight by that third year. Andre gets the money he wants, the Bengals get their future replacement for Whit and ensures he only gets his money if he stays in shape. If he doesn't keep the weight down, his pay is kept at RT level, and you draft Whit's replacement and groom him for a year and keep Andre at RT. I just don't see Andre as a LT. Maybe he can, but I dont see it. The Bengals should know Andre better than anyone. Maybe they intend to let him walk unless it is at their price. $9 million a year is a lot for a RT. It is not simply a matter is he "worth it." It is a matter if Andre is a key piece in acheiving their goal within their window of opportunity. That goal should be going to the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 I just don't see Andre as a LT. Maybe he can, but I dont see it. The Bengals should know Andre better than anyone. Maybe they intend to let him walk unless it is at their price. $9 million a year is a lot for a RT. It is not simply a matter is he "worth it." It is a matter if Andre is a key piece in acheiving their goal within their window of opportunity. That goal should be going to the Super Bowl. I don't necessarily see it either, at least not at his current weight. I wouldn't rule it out if he lost 20-25lbs. He's already got amazingly quick feet for a guy his size. But to hang at LT, he's gonna have to get even quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocalBengalEd Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Just sign free agent RT Phil Loadholt for 6 million a year and use the extra cash on resigning Geno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|westside bengal| Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 I don't necessarily see it either, at least not at his current weight. I wouldn't rule it out if he lost 20-25lbs. He's already got amazingly quick feet for a guy his size. But to hang at LT, he's gonna have to get even quicker. Of course some do question the importance of a LT vs RT when you have a left handed QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicoli Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Just sign free agent RT Phil Loadholt for 6 million a year and use the extra cash on resigning Geno. this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincity Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 But wasn't Andre's cap hit like $8 million last year? It's only a million increase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorclaws Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Is this what you call explaining it Kenneth? I don't see the explaining part. How does 2M bump provide 10 mil in cap space. Maybe 10 in total money but its still just 2 mil a year. Your comment doesn't make sense The argument is that a 2M bump allows you to give a 10M signing bonus on a 5 year deal since it's prorated 2M a year. IMO it's a poor argument because it's not creating 10M in space. It's creating 2M in space and committing 8M of your future cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 The argument is that a 2M bump allows you to give a 10M signing bonus on a 5 year deal since it's prorated 2M a year. IMO it's a poor argument because it's not creating 10M in space. It's creating 2M in space and committing 8M of your future cap space. Yeah I think the comment is flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 if these numbers are accurate, Andre's "demands" are a little more reasonable. These numbers don't match up with rotoworld or spotracs though, so who's to say which is accurate. However, its worth noting that the top three were also left tackles when they signed those deals, so its not a true representation of what "RT money" is. Basically he and his agent are asking for money representative of some left tackles who have since been converted to right tackles. A listing of current RT contracts. Similar to the previous tweet, Andre is still the highest paid RT who was a RT when he signed his deal. Name Team Total Value Annual Per Year Guarantee Guarantee Per Year % Guaranteed Free Agency David Diehl Giants $17,875,000 $8,937,500 $3,000,000 $1,500,000 16.8% 2014 Jason Smith Jets $16,500,000 $8,250,000 $4,000,000 $2,000,000 24.2% 2014 Doug Free Cowboys $32,000,000 $8,000,000 $17,000,000 $4,250,000 53.1% 2015V Andre Smith Bengals $26,042,500 $6,510,625 $13,062,500 $3,265,625 50.2% 2013 David Stewart Titans $36,883,000 $6,147,167 $8,000,000 $1,333,333 21.7% 2015 Todd Herremans Eagles $17,000,000 $5,666,667 $8,600,000 $2,866,667 50.6% 2017 Jammal Brown Redskins $27,500,000 $5,500,000 $5,500,000 $1,100,000 20.0% 2013 Eric Winston Chiefs $22,000,000 $5,500,000 $8,400,000 $2,100,000 38.2% 2016 Jeromey Clary Chargers $20,000,000 $5,000,000 $6,800,000 $1,700,000 34.0% 2015 Tyson Clabo Falcons $25,000,000 $5,000,000 $8,000,000 $1,600,000 32.0% 2016 [url=[url=][url="http://overthecap.com/contracts/offense/offensive-line/tackle/right-tackle/"]http://overthecap.com/contracts/offense/offensive-line/tackle/right-tackle/[/url][/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatcat Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 if these numbers are accurate, Andre's "demands" are a little more reasonable. These numbers don't match up with rotoworld or spotracs though, so who's to say which is accurate. However, its worth noting that the top three were also left tackles when they signed those deals, so its not a true representation of what "RT money" is. Basically he and his agent are asking for money representative of some left tackles who have since been converted to right tackles. A listing of current RT contracts. Similar to the previous tweet, Andre is still the highest paid RT who was a RT when he signed his deal. Name Team Total Value Annual Per Year Guarantee Guarantee Per Year % Guaranteed Free Agency David Diehl Giants $17,875,000 $8,937,500 $3,000,000 $1,500,000 16.8% 2014 Jason Smith Jets $16,500,000 $8,250,000 $4,000,000 $2,000,000 24.2% 2014 Doug Free Cowboys $32,000,000 $8,000,000 $17,000,000 $4,250,000 53.1% 2015V Andre Smith Bengals $26,042,500 $6,510,625 $13,062,500 $3,265,625 50.2% 2013 David Stewart Titans $36,883,000 $6,147,167 $8,000,000 $1,333,333 21.7% 2015 Todd Herremans Eagles $17,000,000 $5,666,667 $8,600,000 $2,866,667 50.6% 2017 Jammal Brown Redskins $27,500,000 $5,500,000 $5,500,000 $1,100,000 20.0% 2013 Eric Winston Chiefs $22,000,000 $5,500,000 $8,400,000 $2,100,000 38.2% 2016 Jeromey Clary Chargers $20,000,000 $5,000,000 $6,800,000 $1,700,000 34.0% 2015 Tyson Clabo Falcons $25,000,000 $5,000,000 $8,000,000 $1,600,000 32.0% 2016 http://overthecap.com/contracts/offense/offensive-line/tackle/right-tackle/ I wonder about the numbers. I looked up Whitworths numbers in the Left Tackle data base and they are way way off. The guy has Whitworth average salary over $9.7M per season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 I wonder about the numbers. I looked up Whitworths numbers in the Left Tackle data base and they are way way off. The guy has Whitworth average salary over $9.7M per season. yea I don't know what to make at this point. Rotoworld had Andre's contract at 4yrs $28 million, this site has it at 4yrs $26,042,500, and spotracs has it at 4yrs $23,177,499 (though I think some bonuses may be missing from that number). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatcat Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 yea I don't know what to make at this point. Rotoworld had Andre's contract at 4yrs $28 million, this site has it at 4yrs $26,042,500, and spotracs has it at 4yrs $23,177,499 (though I think some bonuses may be missing from that number). Spotrak doesn't make any sense for Andre. It looks like they never appropriately updated when the Bengals didn't exercise the option. And no signing bonus either. Just some random numbers in the Miscellaneous bonus column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Spotrak doesn't make any sense for Andre. It looks like they never appropriately updated when the Bengals didn't exercise the option. And no signing bonus either. Just some random numbers in the Miscellaneous bonus column. yea the only thing that jives with all three numbers, is that Andre was already the highest paid "pure" right tackle in the league making somewhere in the range of $6-7 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Let Andre walk and we will suffer because a comparable talent will more than likely not be acquired through FA or the draft as one simply doesn't and won't exist. Offense struggled to protect and run last year and people want to let go of arguably the best player on that line.......doesn't quite make sense to me. I'd rather let MJ go because his loss can be absorbed easier by the Dline than can Andre's loss by the Oline and offense in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alice Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Anthony Collins is still on the squad a better pass blocker than Smith but nowhere near the run blockin of Smith. Yes. Yes. Yes. Given ALL of the variables in play, there is no way the Bengals should pay Andre Smith $9mil per year. For that matter, NOBODY else should either. Too much is made about "premium positions", but there's got to be some common sense about players' relative worth. Andre Smith's strength is, alledgedly, run blocking. Since the Bengals haven't run the ball effectively in recent memory, how much can Smith possibly be worth to them? If there's a sucker out there or a "run first" team that thinks a run blocking RT is worth $9mil, let him walk, give the job to Anthony Collins, and draft a short term backup/long term replacement in the first three rounds. Terron Armstead in the 2nd would be a nice fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 7-8 with another mil in incentives is starting to look pretty fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Spotrak doesn't make any sense for Andre. It looks like they never appropriately updated when the Bengals didn't exercise the option. And no signing bonus either. Just some random numbers in the Miscellaneous bonus column. here's another 4yrs $26 million reference ($6.5 million/yr). http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d810d9ec2/article/signing-status-of-2009-nfl-draft-firstround-picks JohnThornton @JohnThornton Bengals short changed him big time on rookie deal, will have to overpay now - “@CNos19: would you give Andre 9mil over 4-6 or let him walk?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unleashed Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Sort changed him my ass. Dude was a complete turd his first 2 years. He should give money back since he really didn't start performing to his pay until this year. I'm all for re signing him but 9 million dollars a year is too much. If he'd been solid all 4 years I think they'd pay him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.