Draft Grades

[Bengals1181]

fwiw, CBS Sports rankings:

 

 

Dennard - ranked 16th, taken 24th

 

Hill - ranked 70th, taken 55th

 

Clarke - ranked 94th, taken 88th

 

Bodine - ranked 177th, taken 111th

 

McCarron - ranked 102nd, taken 164th

 

Flowers - ranked 262nd, taken 212th

 

Wright - not ranked in their top 1000 players, taken 239th

 

Westbrooks - ranked 345th, taken 252nd

[coup000]

 

Marvin wrote down "I want this guy on our team" at the combine.  He only does that a few times a year.

 

Yeah, its a lot like looking at a supermodel and saying "Pointy Elbows....I wouldn't do her"

I would much rather have him be watching tape and then say "I want this guy on the team".

[happyrid]

The other thing about this draft is that it was set up for us in a way that made it almost impossible to hit all of our areas of truest need given how the talent was going to fall with where we were picking.  That fanspeak simulator that was up was a little ridiculous but useful, in that after a few goes at you realized we were going to be in a very tough spot in every round, and the decision we were going to make in each would have a serious effect on what we could do later.

 

In other words, it was likely we weren't going to get one of the truly starter-quality OT's in 1 unless someone slipped. Same could be said of CB.  DE's weren't that good anyway, so basically, we were hoping someone would fall, and that's exactly what happened.  If LT wasn't going to be around in 1, the guys there in 2 were even less appealing. Now, we could have gotten a starting G, perhaps, but most reports I saw said that the G's that were starter quality that were available were RG, not L. So in round 2, we took the best back in the draft to fit our team. Value matches need.

 

In round 3 I think we had another moment when need met value.  When we watch the draft we often compare our picks to the guys we value that we could have had, but often those guys end up going MUCH later, if at all (like Tiny Richardson). By definition, any player that was available for one of our next picks would have been too high for our previous pick.  Looking at our draft In that light, based on where people actually went:

 

Round:

1) There is no one that was of higher value for us than Dennard.  Not a pick that anyone should question in any way.

 

2) Mehwort, Ealy, Fiedorowicz, Moses, Billy Turner, Marcus Martin, Gabe Jackson, Kareem Martin all went after Jeremy Hill and could have been our pick. Do you like any of them more than Hill?  If so, who would your RB have been later (and with the understanding that Hue clearly placed RB as a very high need)?  Guys available (after our 3rd) were Terrence West, Jerrick McCinnon and Devontae Freeman  -- guys who I would have placed as mid-round typical talent versus our #1 target as a RB.

 

3) Will Clarke - This is the one where I think you might have the biggest argument, given that Trai Turner was available after the Clarke pick.  However Clarke was literally the last DE who fit the Bengals mold of lengthy athletic DE's, so it was then or never for that position, while even guys like Trai turner were really RGs.  I also liked Brandon Thomas, but I thought 4th round was where you think about a guy taking a medical redshirt.

 

4) Bodine - obviously Center was such a great need that we traded up, so it's safe to say that if you are considering an alternate draft Bodine has to go here or you need to take a Cener on an earlier pick.

In other words, if you do a mock now given where players went it's actually difficullt to do better than we did.

 

1) Dennard

2) Ealy

3) Trai Turner

4) Bodine

- with no RB's on the board that I would have spent a pick on after this, except three guys who were all UDFAs Wilder (who we got), Isiah Crowell (Browns) and Kapri Bibbs (Broncos).

 

or

 

1) Dennard

2) Mehwort

3) Clarke

4) Bodine

- still no RB, and I still took two of our 4 picks.

 

Now, going into the draft I was saying get a RB late, and I thought one of the UDFA's were solid choices (it turns out of top 3, Hyde, Hill, and Sims were all gone before our 3rd round pick), but given that the team saw RB as such a clear priority, it's obvious that they seen the writing on the wall with BJGE (which surprises me, as I expected them to the typical thing and ride out his contract; he's an almost guaranteed cut now IMO).

 

So, knowing what you know, who would you take differently?

 

For reference, this is a very handy list from NFL.com, as it's the only one that has the actual drafts with their player grades:

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/tracker?icampaign=nfl_drafttracker_nav-tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-round/dt-by-position-input:ol/dt-by-grade-input:5/dt-by-round-input:1

 

Good breakdown. I felt beforehand like RB was kind of the wild card and could have been addressed in any round after the 1st. By addressing it so early, it meant we really couldn't hit every single need. But that's true of just about every draft. There's always next year for an OT and maybe a big time LB.

 

Also, seeing how the draft played out, I think we would have been in pretty good shape even if Dennard had been gone at 24. I prefer just getting Dennard, but if he was gone, we potentially could have traded down and picked up an extra 3rd or 4th. For example, Philly got a 3rd just to drop down 4 spots. Prior to the draft, that sort of minor tradedown to add a 3rd was the only way I could figure for us to really address every need/want area in the first 4 or 5 rounds. 

 

In terms of looking back on this draft, the decision to draft Hill was kind of a turning point in the draft and really dictated the direction to a certain extent after that. Whether or not he makes a major impact for us will determine whether that was a wise decision or not. I felt like the other picks were kind of no brainers based on need/value.

[dex]

 

Good breakdown. I felt beforehand like RB was kind of the wild card and could have been addressed in any round after the 1st. By addressing it so early, it meant we really couldn't hit every single need. But that's true of just about every draft. There's always next year for an OT and maybe a big time LB.

 

Also, seeing how the draft played out, I think we would have been in pretty good shape even if Dennard had been gone at 24. I prefer just getting Dennard, but if he was gone, we potentially could have traded down and picked up an extra 3rd or 4th. For example, Philly got a 3rd just to drop down 4 spots. Prior to the draft, that sort of minor tradedown to add a 3rd was the only way I could figure for us to really address every need/want area in the first 4 or 5 rounds. 

 

In terms of looking back on this draft, the decision to draft Hill was kind of a turning point in the draft and really dictated the direction to a certain extent after that. Whether or not he makes a major impact for us will determine whether that was a wise decision or not. I felt like the other picks were kind of no brainers based on need/value.

For me the RB situation is sort of like the center situation. They were looking for a certain type of center, a big strong mauling type,  which limited the possibilities and the opportunities to take one. For RB they were looking for someone to pair with Bernard. So while there were a number of quality backs that could be found later in the draft, there were only two or three big ones who were skilled. The Bengals figured they would go in the second round, so if they had waited they wouldn't have gotten one. Last year they were looking for a back to compliment BJGE so they wanted a super quick with great hands. If the Bengals had drafted Le'Veon Bell instead of Bernard, they would probably have waited until later in the draft to find a RB with a contrasting style. What the Bengals did is what the Steelers did, drafting Archer in the third to compliment Bell. There were those types of back later in the draft too, but going off the combine none were quite as fast.

[alleycat]

 

Marvin wrote down "I want this guy on our team" at the combine.  He only does that a few times a year.

 

Not a complete answer to my Bodine question but this comes from Hobson and comes close (and should make others feel good about Clarke):

 

 

After they sweated out Dennard rope-a-doping past Pittsburgh, the Jets, and Philadelphia, the next six rounds were a piece of cake. They actually talked about taking their third-rounder in the second and their fourth-rounder in the third, so that made three no-brainers.

[HairOnFire]

Yeah, its a lot like looking at a supermodel and saying "Pointy Elbows....I wouldn't do her"

 

It's nothing like that because 7th round draft picks aren't comparable to supermodels.

 

More like the garden variety models handing out cosmetic filled swag bags at the mall.

[alleycat]

 

It's nothing like that because 7th round draft picks aren't comparable to supermodels.

 

More like the garden variety models handing out cosmetic filled swag bags at the mall.

 

Thousand Oaks is one of the few places that have both malls and models. Your view of the universe is thusly skewed.

[Khatmandude]

Jeremy Hill is going to end up being one of the better draft picks, not only this year, but in recent years IMO.   And an upgrade was desperately needed over BJGE.  I like the pick more and more and just may be my favorite pick of this draft when you consider potential impact. 

 

I like Bodine alot also.....when he latches on to defenders, they don't go anywhere. 

[alleycat]

Jeremy Hill is going to end up being one of the better draft picks, not only this year, but in recent years IMO.   And an upgrade was desperately needed over BJGE.  I like the pick more and more and just may be my favorite pick of this draft when you consider potential impact.

 

 

#55 is an auspicious one for RBs.

[HairOnFire]

 

Thousand Oaks is one of the few places that have both malls and models. Your view of the universe is thusly skewed.

 

 

You have no idea.

 

I once stood in line at the bank behind Frankie Avalon.

 

He smelled better than any woman I have known in my entire life.

 

Very disturbing.

[Khatmandude]

 

 

#55 is an auspicious one for RBs.

 

I think it's brilliant....take the best RB in the draft at #55...are you kidding me?  RB has been devalued by the NFL for whatever reason but the amount of touches per game have not decreased as you would think, or as logic would dictate considering their lowered value.  I will never complain about getting arguably the #1 guy at his position in the 2nd Rd, a position that touches the ball 2nd most on a team.  
 

[Oldcat]

 

It's nothing like that because 7th round draft picks aren't comparable to supermodels.

 

More like the garden variety models handing out cosmetic filled swag bags at the mall.

 

The analogy is to the entire draft.  To make a draft suck, you need to find flaws with the first pick, not the last.  They are tiny parts of the whole.

[snarkster]

For some reason, Bodine reminds me of Dave Remington.

[Arkansas Bengal]

This guy is a fucking idiot:

 

 

Cincinnati Bengals

24. Darqueze Dennard, cornerback, Michigan State.
55. Jeremy Hill, running back, LSU.
88. Will Clarke, defensive end, West Virginia.
111. Russell Bodine, center, North Carolina.
164. A.J. McCarron, quarterback, Alabama.
212. Marquis Flowers, linebacker, Arizona.
239. James Wright, wide receiver, LSU.
252. Lavelle Westbrooks, cornerback, Georgia Southern.

Overview: The Bengals already have a top-eight roster and not many "needs." So the fact that they didn't have an overly impressive 2014 draft doesn't mean they suddenly suck. But I think they could've done better with their picks. I like Dennard a lot as a player and expect him to be a quality starter from day one. Hill is best suited as a complementary two-down banger back and will handle that role in Cincinnati, upgrading on BenJarvus Green-Ellis.

 

I thought the draft took a turn for the worse quickly thereafter. Clarke is an intriguing physical specimen and long-term project, but probably won't contribute much in 2014. The Bengals needed immediate pass-rush help. Bodine is another plus-measurables project who's not yet ready to play in the league. McCarron is just an NFL backup. Flowers, Wright, and Westbrooks are strictly special teamers. Even if I had liked the Bengals' third- through seventh-round picks more, I'm not sure I would have projected them to suddenly rise atop the NFL mountain.

 

The Bengals need better quarterback play, or to figure out a way to become a dominant football team that minimizes their quarterback's impact.

Grade: C-

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/draft-2014-afc-draft-grades-025200887--nfl.html

 

[scharm]

 
Do we have any evidence that Bodine was their first guy?  And as for his strength, he's got it, but the one knock on him is that he lacks a little bit of an anchor, which, IMO, would be way more important against the NT's you mentioned than bench press ability. 
 
Did they have any other centers in for a visit?

There is a blurb from bengals.com stating Marvin had in his notes "want this guy on my team" from the 15 minute interview session.

Doesn't say absolute first but strong suggestion when combined with trade up.

[scharm]

This draft was Christmas for this board. A little something for everyone.


Hard to imagine e Hill, dennard, Clarke,and Bodine not getting a chance to contribute

[Bengals1181]

This guy is a fucking idiot:

 

 

Cincinnati Bengals

24. Darqueze Dennard, cornerback, Michigan State.
55. Jeremy Hill, running back, LSU.
88. Will Clarke, defensive end, West Virginia.
111. Russell Bodine, center, North Carolina.
164. A.J. McCarron, quarterback, Alabama.
212. Marquis Flowers, linebacker, Arizona.
239. James Wright, wide receiver, LSU.
252. Lavelle Westbrooks, cornerback, Georgia Southern.

Overview: The Bengals already have a top-eight roster and not many "needs." So the fact that they didn't have an overly impressive 2014 draft doesn't mean they suddenly suck. But I think they could've done better with their picks. I like Dennard a lot as a player and expect him to be a quality starter from day one. Hill is best suited as a complementary two-down banger back and will handle that role in Cincinnati, upgrading on BenJarvus Green-Ellis.

 

I thought the draft took a turn for the worse quickly thereafter. Clarke is an intriguing physical specimen and long-term project, but probably won't contribute much in 2014. The Bengals needed immediate pass-rush help. Bodine is another plus-measurables project who's not yet ready to play in the league. McCarron is just an NFL backup. Flowers, Wright, and Westbrooks are strictly special teamers. Even if I had liked the Bengals' third- through seventh-round picks more, I'm not sure I would have projected them to suddenly rise atop the NFL mountain.

 

The Bengals need better quarterback play, or to figure out a way to become a dominant football team that minimizes their quarterback's impact.

Grade: C-

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/draft-2014-afc-draft-grades-025200887--nfl.html

 

 

 

Evan Silva has never said anything good about the Bengals.  

[mullichicken25]

 

 

I thought the draft took a turn for the worse quickly thereafter. Clarke is an intriguing physical specimen and long-term project, but probably won't contribute much in 2014. The Bengals needed immediate pass-rush help....

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/draft-2014-afc-draft-grades-025200887--nfl.html

 

Really? Sounds like this dude saw that MJ signed with Tampa but knowns pretty much nothing about the team

[coup000]

Really? Sounds like this dude saw that MJ signed with Tampa but knowns pretty much nothing about the team

Our pass rush really wasn't all that great last year when you look at pass disruptions as a % of dropbacks. A HUGE part of that was Atkins being out, so hopefully that fixes most of it. But he isn't technically wrong in saying our pass rush needs to be improved.

 

He's a notorious Bengal hater, but I feel similarly about the draft as he does. Dennard and Hill will probably contribute quite a bit and were fine picks. Although you could say that they didn't get much value out of Hill. I don't think anyone would argue that Clarke is anywhere near the prospect MJ was coming out and MJ managed 17 tackles and 3 sacks his rookie year. I doubt Clarke will play much, if at all, barring injury. Not sure what to think of the Bodine pick, on one hand they did seem to really like him and target him. On the other hand I wonder if they panicked a bit because they felt like they had to draft a center and he was their last guy with a "draftable" grade. Seems like the negatives I've seen on him remind me quite a bit of Cook. He's a 4th round pick though, so you probably shouldn't expect a ton out of him anyways. Pollack should start over him pretty easily unless our other options at guard force their hand and Pollack starts there.

 

I really like that this draft took care of the concern at corner (presumably) and hopefully ended BJGE's time here. I still see concern over center and both guard spots. Zeitler regressed last year (possibly because of injury), Boling has the ACL and who knows if Pollack or Bodine can be a good center in the NFL. This teams as currently constructed needs a solid middle of the line.  

[alleycat]

It's accurate to say we need immediate pass rush help. We haven't had a decent pass rush during crunch time. I hope Margus Hunt's progression continues, I hope Geno comes back better than ever, and I hope that Geunther's new scheme and willingness to blitz more helps.

[Zins30]

It's accurate to say we need immediate pass rush help. We haven't had a decent pass rush during crunch time. I hope Margus Hunt's progression continues, I hope Geno comes back better than ever, and I hope that Geunther's new scheme and willingness to blitz more helps.

 

Considering that it seems like we're going to blitz more, who do we have that are good blitzers?

 

Nelson seems to have a knack to get to the QB when blitzing.  Vontaze seems to be good at it too. 

 

I really can't think of any others though.... Lamur? Adam? 'Qwez? Iloka/Williams?

[alleycat]

 I still see concern over center and both guard spots. Zeitler regressed last year (possibly because of injury)

 

Or coaching.

[alleycat]

 

Considering that it seems like we're going to blitz more, who do we have that are good blitzers?

 

Nelson seems to have a knack to get to the QB when blitzing.  Vontaze seems to be good at it too. 

 

I really can't think of any others though.... Lamur? Adam? 'Qwez? Iloka/Williams?

 

DiManche.  Good thing he's Guenther's boy.  I think we'll see why he's here for that reason alone.

 

Vinny Rey is a very solid blitzer as well.  I think most of our dbs are above average in that department too. 

 

As for Clarke, I watched every snap he took in about 5 games last night and I felt nothing but better about him.  He's better against the run than I was expecting, but it's his pass pass rush that's really interesting. He played some 5-Tech for them often enough and was decent as a run defender, though didn't show much pass rushing from there. It was as a 4-3 end that he shined, with this major caveat: he seemed to, like the Bengals, often engage his man in a run first manner, and once he was locked up didn't have the moves and/or strength to disengage/separate.  HOWEVER, there were clearly a number of plays where he was tasked with simply rounding the edge and going for the QB, and he was like another player on those snaps.  He had a good burst for a big guy, but he could really bend and make himself small coming around the edge.  I saw numerous sacks, a couple of strip sacks, and lots of pressure.  It was this one particular area where I was disappointed with MJ, so it will be interesting to compare him on an NFL field.

 

That said, he definitely would benefit from some coaching and increasing his bag of tricks.  But what 3rd round DE wouldn't?

[HairOnFire]

 

The analogy is to the entire draft.  To make a draft suck, you need to find flaws with the first pick, not the last.  They are tiny parts of the whole.

 

But that's just the thing. I didn't think the entire draft sucked.

 

My overall grade was B+.

 

In fact I even gave a grade of A to the 5th round QB pick that I didn't want at all.

 

The fact of the matter is Dex called me out for jokingly mocking a 7th round selection of a WR who apparently was ranked somewhere in the 1000's.

[BlackBengal]

This guy is a fucking idiot:

 

 

Cincinnati Bengals

24. Darqueze Dennard, cornerback, Michigan State.
55. Jeremy Hill, running back, LSU.
88. Will Clarke, defensive end, West Virginia.
111. Russell Bodine, center, North Carolina.
164. A.J. McCarron, quarterback, Alabama.
212. Marquis Flowers, linebacker, Arizona.
239. James Wright, wide receiver, LSU.
252. Lavelle Westbrooks, cornerback, Georgia Southern.

Overview: The Bengals already have a top-eight roster and not many "needs." So the fact that they didn't have an overly impressive 2014 draft doesn't mean they suddenly suck. But I think they could've done better with their picks. I like Dennard a lot as a player and expect him to be a quality starter from day one. Hill is best suited as a complementary two-down banger back and will handle that role in Cincinnati, upgrading on BenJarvus Green-Ellis.

 

I thought the draft took a turn for the worse quickly thereafter. Clarke is an intriguing physical specimen and long-term project, but probably won't contribute much in 2014. The Bengals needed immediate pass-rush help. Bodine is another plus-measurables project who's not yet ready to play in the league. McCarron is just an NFL backup. Flowers, Wright, and Westbrooks are strictly special teamers. Even if I had liked the Bengals' third- through seventh-round picks more, I'm not sure I would have projected them to suddenly rise atop the NFL mountain.

 

The Bengals need better quarterback play, or to figure out a way to become a dominant football team that minimizes their quarterback's impact.

Grade: C-

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/draft-2014-afc-draft-grades-025200887--nfl.html

 

 

 

Evan Silva clearly knows better than the Bengals that Bodine isnt ready to play in the league.  I mean the Bengals spent hours scouting, working out, interviewing and discussing players, but Silva reads Mike Mayock on NFL.com and watches those Mel Kiper segments on ESPN, so I think that Silva is right that Bodine was a bad pick.  

 

And there were so many DEs available at pick #88 that would provide immediate pass-rush help, why did the Bengals pick Clark who won't contribute in 2014?  They should have taken Jadeveon Clowney with that #88 pick.  He is NFL ready.