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MichaelWeston

Possibilities at 9

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49 minutes ago, Jpoore said:


Ok if u watched the tape u would understand.

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app
 

What's tape?

DRAFT PROFILE: Reuben Foster

STRENGTHS: None

WEAKNESSES: SLOW read/react time, bad coverage skills, not Mike Williams, didn't have an elite spandex day

PLAYER COMPARISON: Rey Maualuga 2.0, u no der b 4 otherz we take be4 Foster bcuz dat

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10 hours ago, happyrid said:

The PFF scouting report for Reddick:

Name: Haason Reddick

School: Temple

Position fit: Played on the edge in college but may need to transition to more of an off-ball linebacker role at the next level. Pass-rushing ability should be utilized regardless of position name.

Stats to know: Led all 3-4 OLBs (third among all FBS edge players) in pass-rush productivity from the left side (31 total pressures on 127 rushes with eight sacks).

What he does best:

  • Athleticism he showed at combine pops on film; explosive first step, changes directions in a flash.
  • Extremely effective on stunts because of his athleticism.
  • Despite tendency to over-pursue he does a good job of sniffing out plays from the backside when left uncovered.
  • Can flatten out and turn the corner.
  • Able to disengage from blockers at line of scrimmage because of his quick feet and willingness to initiate contact; size doesn’t appear to limit him against blocks.
  • Consistently one of the first men moving at the snap, a sign of excellent instincts and anticipation.
  • Second among all draft-eligible FBS 3-4 OLBs in run stop percentage despite 10 missed tackles against the run.
  • Gave up receptions on just eight of 22 throws into his coverage in 2016 for a total of 99 yards allowed with no touchdowns against, one interception and two breakups.
  • Shows off outstanding top speed when pursuing from the back side.

Biggest concern:

  • Struggles to break down, get square and tackle consistently. Missed 15 tackles on only 76 attempts in 2016 and missed 28 on 150 attempts over last three seasons.
  • Overruns too many plays because of his aggressiveness and desire to penetrate into the backfield.
  • Not nearly as productive when rushing from the right side; 11 pressures on 115 rushes.
  • 54th out of 61 qualifying 3-4 OLBs in tackling efficiency.
  • May lack the bulk to consistently hold up at the line of scrimmage against NFL tackles.
  • Needs to learn a countermove for rushing the passer; large split in productivity between rushing off each edge likely explained by physical comfort level of bending the left side on speed rushes over the right.

Player comparison: Jamie Collins, Cleveland Browns

Similar to Reddick, Collins is an elite athlete capable of producing in all three phases of defense. Also like Reddick, tackling is Collins’ single biggest issue (50 combined misses in the past three seasons).

Bottom line: Reddick is an explosive athlete that can consistently win the edge when rushing the passer, and has the physicality to get off blockers at all three levels. While teams will certainly want to take advantage of his pass-rush ability first, he also shows the instincts, speed and change of direction to help on coverage drops as well. Because of this, he is a scheme-independent player, and despite his frequent overrunning of plays, he warrants selection in the first round.

Can you post this for Foster?  Thanks. 

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4 minutes ago, Jason said:

Can you post this for Foster?  Thanks. 

Name: Reuben Foster

School: Alabama

Position fit: ILB

Stats to know: Led all FBS linebackers in run-stop percentage in the 2016 season.

What he does best:

  • Flashes the lateral agility and speed to run with tight ends, as well as chase down run plays from the back side.
  • Has the speed to get depth, also capable of flipping his hips and locating the ball in coverage. Tied for the national lead with seven pass breakups in 2015.
  • Has the ability to take on bigger blockers at the line of scrimmage—can stand up at the point of attack, as well as shed to make the play.
  • Stays low and square to the point of attack—this allows him to wrap up and strike through the ball carrier, as well as establish leverage and hold his ground against bigger blockers.
  • Needs to diversify his attack, but has the quickness to be an effective blitzer on interior pass rushes.
  • Excels at sifting through the trash to find the ball.
  • Can beat blockers with quickness and with his hands.

Biggest concern:

  • Tries to run around blocks at times; takes him out of his gap assignments on occasion.
  • Needs to use his hands when rushing the passer—will at times try to simply run by interior blockers.
  • When he gets overly aggressive, Foster tends to leave his feet and will miss tackles; he missed 16 in 2016.
  • Too often attacks the line of scrimmage with his arms at his sides, allowing blockers to quickly latch on and seal him out of the play.

Player Comparison: Patrick Willis, LB, 49ers (2007–2014 seasons)

High praise, but it’s a reflection on Foster’s ability to do everything. He has the top-end athleticism that Willis had, which allows him to play sideline-to-sideline and cover running backs, tight ends and slot receivers, as well as the strength and physicality needed to consistently take on and beat blocks on inside runs.

Bottom line:

Foster is a complete prospect, and should be considered among the elite players in this draft class. He graded well in all three phases of defense, most notably posting the highest overall and run-defense grades among FBS LBs, as well as the eighth-highest pass-coverage grade among LBs with at least 300 coverage snaps played. His athleticism is evident in all phases, as he has the quickness and change of direction needed to be an effective pass-rusher (he posted 22 total pressures in 2016 on just 93 rushes). He excels in all forms of coverage, but most notably in man, as his speed and closing ability allow him to consistently stay with backs and TEs and make plays on the ball. Against the run, he does an excellent job of staying square to the line of scrimmage, which allows him to move laterally to the boundary and effectively adjust to cutbacks. He demonstrates the ability to take on blockers at the point of attack and either stand them up to clog up the hole or shed them altogether to finish the play. At times, though, Foster will try to run around blocks and not use his hands to set them. While the importance of inside linebackers in the NFL has been, to an extent, lessened by the modern game, Foster’s rare ability in all phases means he is worth top-10 consideration.

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Here's a link to all of the PFF prospect reports/rankings:

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl-draft/

 

Interesting to see a little bit different scouting report on some of these guys with more in-depth focus on their college production. You can tell that they are higher on the more polished, productive guys (Derek Barnett, Jourdan Lewis, etc.) and not as high on some of the more raw but athletic types that NFL scouts often prefer.  

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5 hours ago, Jpoore said:


Its easy. Foster is malaluga 2.0 same SLOW read/react time, same bad coverage skills.

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app
 

I don't think Foster has bad coverage skills or is slow to read/react, he's pretty good in coverage imo.

My only concern with Foster is that he played with so much talent around him that he normally didn't have to fight off blocks to make a play, he could just run unimpeded to the ball carrier, I don't think that will be the norm in the NFL.

 

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2 hours ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Name: Reuben Foster

School: Alabama

Position fit: ILB

Stats to know: Led all FBS linebackers in run-stop percentage in the 2016 season.

What he does best:

  • Flashes the lateral agility and speed to run with tight ends, as well as chase down run plays from the back side.
  • Has the speed to get depth, also capable of flipping his hips and locating the ball in coverage. Tied for the national lead with seven pass breakups in 2015.
  • Has the ability to take on bigger blockers at the line of scrimmage—can stand up at the point of attack, as well as shed to make the play.
  • Stays low and square to the point of attack—this allows him to wrap up and strike through the ball carrier, as well as establish leverage and hold his ground against bigger blockers.
  • Needs to diversify his attack, but has the quickness to be an effective blitzer on interior pass rushes.
  • Excels at sifting through the trash to find the ball.
  • Can beat blockers with quickness and with his hands.

Biggest concern:

  • Tries to run around blocks at times; takes him out of his gap assignments on occasion.
  • Needs to use his hands when rushing the passer—will at times try to simply run by interior blockers.
  • When he gets overly aggressive, Foster tends to leave his feet and will miss tackles; he missed 16 in 2016.
  • Too often attacks the line of scrimmage with his arms at his sides, allowing blockers to quickly latch on and seal him out of the play.

Player Comparison: Patrick Willis, LB, 49ers (2007–2014 seasons)

High praise, but it’s a reflection on Foster’s ability to do everything. He has the top-end athleticism that Willis had, which allows him to play sideline-to-sideline and cover running backs, tight ends and slot receivers, as well as the strength and physicality needed to consistently take on and beat blocks on inside runs.

Bottom line:

Foster is a complete prospect, and should be considered among the elite players in this draft class. He graded well in all three phases of defense, most notably posting the highest overall and run-defense grades among FBS LBs, as well as the eighth-highest pass-coverage grade among LBs with at least 300 coverage snaps played. His athleticism is evident in all phases, as he has the quickness and change of direction needed to be an effective pass-rusher (he posted 22 total pressures in 2016 on just 93 rushes). He excels in all forms of coverage, but most notably in man, as his speed and closing ability allow him to consistently stay with backs and TEs and make plays on the ball. Against the run, he does an excellent job of staying square to the line of scrimmage, which allows him to move laterally to the boundary and effectively adjust to cutbacks. He demonstrates the ability to take on blockers at the point of attack and either stand them up to clog up the hole or shed them altogether to finish the play. At times, though, Foster will try to run around blocks and not use his hands to set them. While the importance of inside linebackers in the NFL has been, to an extent, lessened by the modern game, Foster’s rare ability in all phases means he is worth top-10 consideration.

Thank you.  This reinforces my belief that Foster is the guy I want unless someone unexpected slides.

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2 hours ago, Jason said:

Thank you.  This reinforces my belief that Foster is the guy I want unless someone unexpected slides.

Call me old fashioned, but I think what a guy does in pads is more important than how he looks in spandex. I'm far more inclined to trust the pre-combine reports than hearing about a guy having a great 40 time or an amazing short shuttle. If you're fast, quick, or tough, it should show on your game film.

That said, I think the interview trumps all, and we rarely get to see those. More than anything, is the guy a good fit for your team personality wise?

A good number of draftniks believe straight up that Foster is the best pure football player on the board. 

Reddick is still a damn good football player, but IMHO, he's more of a project. You bring him in at Mike, and he has to learn a new position. IMHO, his natural fit is a 3-4 OLB. That said, a former walk-on who has worked his way to a 1st round pick says a lot about his character and work ethic. Guy has a ton of upside. So did Margus Hunt.

I've liked Foster since Day 1. He's ready to go on day one. If he's a fit, you must acquit. I mean you have to draft the guy.

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46 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Call me old fashioned, but I think what a guy does in pads is more important than how he looks in spandex. I'm far more inclined to trust the pre-combine reports than hearing about a guy having a great 40 time or an amazing short shuttle. If you're fast, quick, or tough, it should show on your game film.

That said, I think the interview trumps all, and we rarely get to see those. More than anything, is the guy a good fit for your team personality wise?

A good number of draftniks believe straight up that Foster is the best pure football player on the board. 

Reddick is still a damn good football player, but IMHO, he's more of a project. You bring him in at Mike, and he has to learn a new position. IMHO, his natural fit is a 3-4 OLB. That said, a former walk-on who has worked his way to a 1st round pick says a lot about his character and work ethic. Guy has a ton of upside. So did Margus Hunt.

I've liked Foster since Day 1. He's ready to go on day one. If he's a fit, you must acquit. I mean you have to draft the guy.

Agreed.  Especially the bolded.

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5 minutes ago, Jason said:

Agreed.  Especially the bolded.

 

Yes, but I fee like we did this same shit with Keith Rivers.

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4 minutes ago, turningpoint said:

 

Yes, but I fee like we did this same shit with Keith Rivers.

He was playing well until Whines Hard broke his jaw.  He was never the same after that.

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14 minutes ago, turningpoint said:

 

Yes, but I fee like we did this same shit with Keith Rivers.

I'm not sure what you're saying here... Heck, we've had plenty of first round busts, maybe we should just skip the pick altogether.

Or are you saying that because we've had a bad experience with an Alabama player, we should ignore all of the players coming from one of College football's best programs?

Since you brought up Pollack, a DE that everyone was sure would make a great LB, aren't you more making the case against Reddick?

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23 minutes ago, Jason said:

He was playing well until Whines Hard broke his jaw.  He was never the same after that.

imo he was about as ever good as Brian Simmons, even before the hit on Ward he never lived up to his draft ranking.

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1 hour ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Call me old fashioned, but I think what a guy does in pads is more important than how he looks in spandex. I'm far more inclined to trust the pre-combine reports than hearing about a guy having a great 40 time or an amazing short shuttle. If you're fast, quick, or tough, it should show on your game film.

That said, I think the interview trumps all, and we rarely get to see those. More than anything, is the guy a good fit for your team personality wise?

A good number of draftniks believe straight up that Foster is the best pure football player on the board. 

Reddick is still a damn good football player, but IMHO, he's more of a project. You bring him in at Mike, and he has to learn a new position. IMHO, his natural fit is a 3-4 OLB. That said, a former walk-on who has worked his way to a 1st round pick says a lot about his character and work ethic. Guy has a ton of upside. So did Margus Hunt.

I've liked Foster since Day 1. He's ready to go on day one. If he's a fit, you must acquit. I mean you have to draft the guy.

I don't think comparing him to Hunt is fair, Hunt played 3 years of football before he was drafted while Reddick has played his whole life. Imo, Reddick would be a great Sam LB in a 4-3 Under defense, which is very similar to a 3-4 OLB and the same role that James Harrison played for that forgettable year he spent in Cincy,  which is a formation the Bengals employ under Guenther. If you had MJ as the 5-tech and Dunlap as the LEO it would give you 5 potential pass rushers on every play, it would also give you a lot of versatility in your play calling. He could line up next the DE and give OT's fits about who to block should they rush, use his athleticism to cover TE's/slot receivers, or use his strength to set the edge in the run game.

Image result for 4-3 under front

 

I keep seeing people say that Reddick has to play a MLB in a 4-3 defense, but that is not the case.

 

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5 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

I'm not sure what you're saying here... Heck, we've had plenty of first round busts, maybe we should just skip the pick altogether.

Or are you saying that because we've had a bad experience with an Alabama player, we should ignore all of the players coming from one of College football's best programs?

Since you brought up Pollack, a DE that everyone was sure would make a great LB, aren't you more making the case against Reddick?

Pollack broke his neck, before that he was a good player, not sure how that reflects on Reddick?

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1 minute ago, PatternMaster said:

I don't think comparing him to Hunt is fair, Hunt played 3 years of football before he was drafted while Reddick has played his whole life. Imo, Reddick would be a great Sam LB in a 4-3 Under defense, which is very similar to a 3-4 OLB and the same role that James Harrison played for that forgettable year he spent in Cincy,  which is a formation the Bengals employ under Guenther. If you had MJ as the 5-tech and Dunlap as the LEO

Image result for 4-3 under front

 

He could line up next the DE and give OT's fits about who to block should they rush, use his athleticism to cover TE's/slot receivers, or use his strength to set the edge in the run game. I keep seeing that Reddick has to play a MLB in a 4-3 defense, but that is not the case.

 

So all we have to do is redesign our defense around this guy? His coverage skills are largely unproven... But he's athletic enough. Like we've never had an athletic linebacker be lousy in coverage.

And since Reddick started his college career at DB, the Hunt comparison seems apt to me.

I can't believe that some good combine numbers have blown this guy up into a must have prospect. I'm not 100% sold on Foster at #9, but I'd be looking at positions other than LB at that point.

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12 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

Pollack broke his neck, before that he was a good player, not sure how that reflects on Reddick?

Shows that it's a lot more difficult/different playing in space. Maybe. I'm not even sure how David Pollack relates to Reuben Foster.

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1 hour ago, Jamie_B said:

imo he was about as ever good as Brian Simmons, even before the hit on Ward he never lived up to his draft ranking.

Considering it happened about half way through his rookie season, it's hard to say how good he could have been.

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Wonder if the Bengals see someone at 6 they really want if they would entertain the idea of McCarron and 9 for the Jets 6th. Or if the Jets would even go for it.

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15 hours ago, LostInDaJungle said:

So all we have to do is redesign our defense around this guy? His coverage skills are largely unproven... But he's athletic enough. Like we've never had an athletic linebacker be lousy in coverage.

And since Reddick started his college career at DB, the Hunt comparison seems apt to me.

I can't believe that some good combine numbers have blown this guy up into a must have prospect. I'm not 100% sold on Foster at #9, but I'd be looking at positions other than LB at that point.

The Bengals have run a 4-3 since Marvin became the HC, why would they have to redesign the defense? A 4-3 under is just a variation of the 4-3 base defense, a package that they use multiple times a game, not quite sure what you mean by that. 

You say his coverage skills are unproven but he has 5 career PD's(from a DE position) and more career INT's than Foster, which isn't hard because Foster doesn't have any.

Also your comparison Margus Hunt is way off and makes you seem like you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. If you want to compare a guy who has been playing football since grade school to a guy that starting playing his sophomore year in college than do that, but you are wrong. Just because a guy switches positions in college doesn't mean they compare to Margus Hunt, if that is the case then JJ Watt compares to Hunt, Ray Lewis played RB in high school so I guess he compares to hunt, Richard Sherman played WR in college so I guess he compares to Hunt...you are being ridiculous. Most high school players switch positions when they arrive to college because coaches recruit the best athletes and teach them the positions they want them to play. QB's move to WR, RB, DB, LB, TE, etc..TE's gain weight and become OT's, LB's become safety's. 

It's not just his combine that has given his draft stock such a bump, it started before the combine. After the NFL and NCAA season ended and the coaches got to evaluate the players in the draft they started to notice this guy from Temple, not exactly a powerhouse program that gets a lot of media attention. He was invited to the Senior Bowl and was the best defensive player during the week of practice, which is the most important part of the event since the game is sort of like the Pro Bowl, can't blitz and no one wants to get hurt so guys aren't going full speed and giving it their all.

The more attention NFL coaches and scouts pay to this guy the more draft stock improves, this is without the big school and ESPN hype. It's organic and based off of game tape, senior bowl practices with NFL coaches, and combine results; not a Todd McShay/Mel Kiper mock draft sponsored by an agent with an agenda.  

If you compare the career stats of Foster and Reddick it's obvious Reddick is the better playmaker of the two; he has twice as many TFL's and sacks, four times as many forced fumbles, and only 21 less solo tackles which shows how active he is on the football field because he played DE while Foster was LB and LB's normally have many more solo tackles than DE's. Foster can run and hit, but he's hasn't shown the can make impact plays behind the line of scrimmage or in coverage. 

Lastly, Rob Rang has the Bengals drafting Reddick in his latest mock draft, http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft/expert/rob-rang.

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15 hours ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Shows that it's a lot more difficult/different playing in space. Maybe. I'm not even sure how David Pollack relates to Reuben Foster.

Can't follow your logic on this one, not quite sure you can either...lol

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Reddick is Dontay Moch 2.0.  Except Moch was a better college player and a better athlete.  

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51 minutes ago, BlackBengal said:

Reddick is Dontay Moch 2.0.  Except Moch was a better college player and a better athlete.  

Contrary to popular belief you can like a player without making up crazy BS about another

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56 minutes ago, BlackBengal said:

Reddick is Dontay Moch 2.0.  Except Moch was a better college player and a better athlete.  

Moch is a hell of an athlete, but injuries and PED's derailed his development. Moch didn't seem to be that hard of a worker or take practice seriously because he never developed despite his physical gifts. 

The physical comparison is apt, but think Reddick's work ethic and attitude is better than Moch's. Based on how he responded to NFL coaches at the Senior Bowl and the feedback from the coaches, scouts, and media people at the event he was the best defensive player there. He took to the coaching and had a "can do" attitude, why wouldn't you want someone like that on your football team. 

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Cautionary tale.  Reddick and Dontay Moch are basically the same player except that Moch was a better college player and had a better combine workout.  Played same position in college, each in lesser conferences.  Both have to transition to LB in pros.   Both were/will be over-drafted.

Interestingly, both had great combine workouts other than their short shuttle times.  Both Reddick and Moch had pedestrian short shuttles indicating average change of direction ability.

Moch was the more productive college player by far.  

Moch-  1st team all WAC (2010); 2nd team all WAC (2009)

Reddick- 1st team all AAC (2016)

Moch- 30 college sacks, 62.5 TFL, 189 total tackles. 4 years playing mostly DE and a little LB.  Had 13 sacks in his best college season.

Reddick- 17.5 college sacks, 47 TFL, 149 total tackles.  4 years playing mostly DE and a little LB.  Had 9.5 sacks in his best college season.

Combine numbers- Moch is bigger, and faster.

Moch- 6'1, 248lbs.  4.44 40, 42 vert, 128 broad, 4.38 short shuttle.

Reddick- 6'1, 237lbs., 4.52 40, 36.5 vert, 133 broad, 4.37 short shuttle.

Moch saw his stock climb after a great combine workout.  His 40 and vert were historic for a 250 pounder.  Unfortunately the Bengals used the 66th overall pick on him.  The former DE never found a position in the NFL and after bouncing around the league for a while is currently playing in Canada.

 

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