Jeb Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='oftt4' post='432803' date='Jan 25 2007, 11:23 AM']He is going to stick around as DC for at least one more year, maybe two. Beyond that who knows....he IS old, but he looks pretty good for his age. His mind is still sharp, and he still has a passion for the game.[/quote] Yeah, but its not settling for a team to shake up that much over a few years. It prolongs the rebuilding time. Its better to get accustomed to a new system and coaches all at once and not over an extended period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oftt4 Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='Jeb' post='432814' date='Jan 25 2007, 11:31 AM']Yeah, but its not settling for a team to shake up that much over a few years. It prolongs the rebuilding time. Its better to get accustomed to a new system and coaches all at once and not over an extended period of time.[/quote] I agree, but I also think that the team needs to be shaken up a bit, there was no fire on that team this year. A new coaching staff might get them going again. As for "rebuilding time", the stealers arent rebuilding. They have basically the same personell that won a SB last year. They will just have a different philosophy as far as game planning. That being said, Tomlin may decide to change everything including the base defense which would probably lead to rebuilding...only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheBeaverHunter Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Coaching wise, what great strides has Marvin made? Name one game that he has out coached the other coach and we won based on his coaching? We beat the teams with less talent, lose to the ones with a better coach and even talent, and lose to the teams with greater talent. Talent wise he has done an awesome job. He has changed the perception of this team from bottom of the league, to superbowl contenders, to prison chain gang. The talent level has been greatly improved during his time as HC, which he is credited for. . The defense has been in the bottom 3rd since his stay here. The offense has been in the top 3rd. He has failed to make the playoffs in 3 of 4 years and is 0-1 in the playoffs. He has had 1 winning season. A coach that takes 5 years to win his first playoff game isn't really a hot commodity. I would love to let him walk with a 1st or 2nd rounder but that is wishful thinking. The truth is we are only going to go as far as our D will take us and thus far that is 3 8-8 seasons. Until changes are made we will be stuck saying next year we are superbowl champs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='oftt4' post='432832' date='Jan 25 2007, 11:43 AM']I agree, but I also think that the team needs to be shaken up a bit, there was no fire on that team this year. A new coaching staff might get them going again. As for "rebuilding time", the stealers arent rebuilding. They have basically the same personell that won a SB last year. They will just have a different philosophy as far as game planning. That being said, Tomlin may decide to change everything including the base defense which would probably lead to rebuilding...only time will tell.[/quote] There was no fire because your coach was demoralized by the offer Rooney made to him (if he truly made one, its only a rumor). I didn't see any spitting from Cowher last season. It looked to me like he just wanted to get through the season and get it over with and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooky Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Even trade. Marvin for the Cheerleaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Muntz Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='TheBeaverHunter' post='432887' date='Jan 25 2007, 12:43 PM']Coaching wise, what great strides has Marvin made? Name one game that he has out coached the other coach and we won based on his coaching? We beat the teams with less talent, lose to the ones with a better coach and even talent, and lose to the teams with greater talent. Talent wise he has done an awesome job. He has changed the perception of this team from bottom of the league, to superbowl contenders, to prison chain gang. The talent level has been greatly improved during his time as HC, which he is credited for. . The defense has been in the bottom 3rd since his stay here. The offense has been in the top 3rd. He has failed to make the playoffs in 3 of 4 years and is 0-1 in the playoffs. He has had 1 winning season. A coach that takes 5 years to win his first playoff game isn't really a hot commodity. I would love to let him walk with a 1st or 2nd rounder but that is wishful thinking. The truth is we are only going to go as far as our D will take us and thus far that is 3 8-8 seasons. Until changes are made we will be stuck saying next year we are superbowl champs.[/quote] ok, I'm going to go through this one time and one time only for you, so please try to understand what I'm about to type. Marvin Lewis didn't just take over any team, he took over the Cincy Bengals who were rated as the worst franchise in all of sports by ESPN. This franchise couldn't attract a quality coach or FA to save it's life, Marvin came here because he knew if he could turn this franchise around then there's no way anyone would doubt his or any other black coaches ability to get the job done. Going 8-8 with the year after this team went 2-14 was nothing short of a miracle, but the man called "Black Jesus" pulled it off. Two years later he took this team that was the laughing stock of pro sports to the playoffs and won the division for the first time in over a decade. What Marvin has accomplished here should have gotten a Coach of the Year award, especially in 2005, and if it takes him 30 years to win the SuperBowl I believe he has earned that right because he took the job when any coach or FA with another option choose the other option and now the Bengals are a legitimate franchise that expects to win. Marvin Lewis is the solution, not the problem. So in conclusion save your hate for Marvin for someone who deserves it, like Dick Cheney or George W. Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='Nelson Muntz' post='432936' date='Jan 25 2007, 01:49 PM']ok, I'm going to go through this one time and one time only for you, so please try to understand what I'm about to type. Marvin Lewis didn't just take over any team, he took over the Cincy Bengals who were rated as the worst franchise in all of sports by ESPN. This franchise couldn't attract a quality coach or FA to save it's life, Marvin came here because he knew if he could turn this franchise around then there's no way anyone would doubt his or any other black coaches ability to get the job done. Going 8-8 with the year after this team went 2-14 was nothing short of a miracle, but the man called "Black Jesus" pulled it off. Two years later he took this team that was the laughing stock of pro sports to the playoffs and won the division for the first time in over a decade. What Marvin has accomplished here should have gotten a Coach of the Year award, especially in 2005, and if it takes him 30 years to win the SuperBowl I believe he has earned that right because he took the job when any coach or FA with another option choose the other option and now the Bengals are a legitimate franchise that expects to win. Marvin Lewis is the solution, not the problem. So in conclusion save your hate for Marvin for someone who deserves it, like Dick Cheney or George W. Bush.[/quote] BeaverHunter said everything you did. He changed the culture and image of the team, and brought in better talent. But, again, as BH said, name one game we won because Marvin outcoached the opponent. Name one game where we made a positive half time adjustment that turned a loss into a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheBeaverHunter Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 I don't hate Marvin, I think he is an awesome DC. I think the Black Jesus is a little over dramatic and if it takes him 30 years to win a superbowl then we are all fucked. What is it going to take before all of the Marvin lovers start to say maybe he CAN'T take us to the next level? 1st year - he was my idol 2nd year - I thought 8-8 isn't bad, next year is our year 3rd year - we made the playoffs and all was forgotten, since our QB was out. 4th year - Pissed off by stupid plays, bad gameplans, and 8-8 season. I will take into account the following arrests, injuries, and Carson coming back from a major injury. 5th year - anything short of playing in the conference champion game is going to be a disappointment. If we fail to make the playoffs and don't win the division, I will be calling for his head. The window in the NFL to make a championship run is a small window and that window will soon reach it's peak for us and start its downward decent. Only one team has kept that window open for an extended amount of time and that is the Pats. We have all said that our coaching staff isn't half the coaches that they have. So in closing this is Marvin's break or make year. P.S. We are STILL the laughing stock of the NFL, thanks to Marvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Muntz Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='TheBeaverHunter' post='432945' date='Jan 25 2007, 02:14 PM']I don't hate Marvin, I think he is an awesome DC. I think the Black Jesus is a little over dramatic and if it takes him 30 years to win a superbowl then we are all fucked. What is it going to take before all of the Marvin lovers start to say maybe he CAN'T take us to the next level? 1st year - he was my idol 2nd year - I thought 8-8 isn't bad, next year is our year 3rd year - we made the playoffs and all was forgotten, since our QB was out. 4th year - Pissed off by stupid plays, bad gameplans, and 8-8 season. I will take into account the following arrests, injuries, and Carson coming back from a major injury. 5th year - anything short of playing in the conference champion game is going to be a disappointment. If we fail to make the playoffs and don't win the division, I will be calling for his head. The window in the NFL to make a championship run is a small window and that window will soon reach it's peak for us and start its downward decent. Only one team has kept that window open for an extended amount of time and that is the Pats. We have all said that our coaching staff isn't half the coaches that they have. So in closing this is Marvin's break or make year. P.S. We are STILL the laughing stock of the NFL, thanks to Marvin.[/quote] Ok, you conviently left out the fact that if shayne Graham makes a 39 yrd field goal we make the playoffs in year 4, so blaming the HC because the kicker chokes is kinda stupid, imo. You say he didn't make any adjustments to win games, how do you know? Are you a member of the coaching staff, no. Are you a player, no. We fans have no clue what adjustments are being made during the game so I don't were your getting your info from about that one. As far as your window theory goes, I think our window has a few years before it's shuts on us as we are young at the most important position when it comes to winning consistantly in the NFL, qb. Carson is only 26 and his best years are ahead of him, to say we've only got a 2 years win the SuperBowl just isn't an accurate assessment of the situation. I honestly don't believe your being honest with yourself when it comes to this, it's like you only want to look at the facts that support your arguement and your ignoring all the facts stating that you could be mistaken. But yeah if you want to be miserable and think that your favorite teams HC needs to be fired, then more power to yah, but yeah it's pretty obvious that Marvin has done a great job here and he deserves the fans full support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Muntz Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='Jason' post='432943' date='Jan 25 2007, 02:08 PM']BeaverHunter said everything you did. He changed the culture and image of the team, and brought in better talent. But, again, as BH said, name one game we won because Marvin outcoached the opponent. Name one game where we made a positive half time adjustment that turned a loss into a win.[/quote] just this year or throughout his career has a head coach? Honestly I don't have the time or resources to answer your question, like I told BH I'm not in the locker room or on the coaching staff so there's no way I would be able to know what adjustments were and weren't made. Many times us fans speculate as to what adjustments were made based of what plays are called and how the team plays in the second half, but honestly we're just talking out of our asses as we don't really know unless a coach comes out and says they made adjustments in the post game interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oftt4 Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='Jeb' post='432898' date='Jan 25 2007, 12:50 PM']There was no fire because your coach was demoralized by the offer Rooney made to him (if he truly made one, its only a rumor). I didn't see any spitting from Cowher last season. It looked to me like he just wanted to get through the season and get it over with and move on.[/quote] I agree, it all started with Cowher not getting his players fired up. That is why I think a new staff, with a young coach who wants to prove himself is just what the team needed. And as for the offer, if the rumors were true...Cowher wants more money than Holmgren got (8 or 9 mil)....and the Rooneys just arent going to do that with anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='Nelson Muntz' post='432949' date='Jan 25 2007, 02:27 PM']Ok, you conviently left out the fact that if shayne Graham makes a 39 yrd field goal we make the playoffs in year 4, so blaming the HC because the kicker chokes is kinda stupid, imo. You say he didn't make any adjustments to win games, how do you know? Are you a member of the coaching staff, no. Are you a player, no. We fans have no clue what adjustments are being made during the game so I don't were your getting your info from about that one.[/quote] Yes, you can say we were a blown kick away from making the playoffs. But how about giving up 42 points in a half? How about only scoring 13 points against Tampa Bay? Or, back to the Stealers game, how about the wasted time out? If we still had that, it could have been a 29 yard FG. As for half time adjustments, it's pretty easy to see. For one, the afore mentioned 42 point explosion by the Chargers. Or how about the fact that the Bengals were outscored 85-61 in the 3rd quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PakMan Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='Nelson Muntz' post='432936' date='Jan 25 2007, 01:49 PM']ok, I'm going to go through this one time and one time only for you, so please try to understand what I'm about to type. Marvin Lewis didn't just take over any team, he took over the Cincy Bengals who were rated as the worst franchise in all of sports by ESPN. This franchise couldn't attract a quality coach or FA to save it's life, Marvin came here because he knew if he could turn this franchise around then there's no way anyone would doubt his or any other black coaches ability to get the job done. Going 8-8 with the year after this team went 2-14 was nothing short of a miracle, but the man called "Black Jesus" pulled it off. Two years later he took this team that was the laughing stock of pro sports to the playoffs and won the division for the first time in over a decade. What Marvin has accomplished here should have gotten a Coach of the Year award, especially in 2005, and if it takes him 30 years to win the SuperBowl I believe he has earned that right because he took the job when any coach or FA with another option choose the other option and now the Bengals are a legitimate franchise that expects to win. Marvin Lewis is the solution, not the problem. So in conclusion save your hate for Marvin for someone who deserves it, like Dick Cheney or George W. Bush.[/quote] Just because we sucked for a decade we are supposed to accept mediocrity, or slightly above it? I love Marvin, but it shouldn't be inconceivable that he be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengals8580 Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 id trade marvin for every coach that made the playoffs. id trade marvin for a piece of dog shit. cause thats what he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='bengals8580' post='432978' date='Jan 25 2007, 03:11 PM']id trade marvin for every coach that made the playoffs. id trade marvin for a piece of dog shit. cause thats what he is[/quote] That a bit extreme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='oftt4' post='432965' date='Jan 25 2007, 02:49 PM']I agree, it all started with Cowher not getting his players fired up. That is why I think a new staff, with a young coach who wants to prove himself is just what the team needed. And as for the offer, if the rumors were true...Cowher wants more money than Holmgren got (8 or 9 mil)....and the Rooneys just arent going to do that with anybody.[/quote] I dont think the pick is a bad one at all, but I do question his choice in coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actium Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='TheBeaverHunter' post='432945' date='Jan 25 2007, 01:14 PM']I don't hate Marvin, I think he is an awesome DC. I think the Black Jesus is a little over dramatic and if it takes him 30 years to win a superbowl then we are all fucked. What is it going to take before all of the Marvin lovers start to say maybe he CAN'T take us to the next level? 1st year - he was my idol 2nd year - I thought 8-8 isn't bad, next year is our year 3rd year - we made the playoffs and all was forgotten, since our QB was out. 4th year - Pissed off by stupid plays, bad gameplans, and 8-8 season. I will take into account the following arrests, injuries, and Carson coming back from a major injury. 5th year - anything short of playing in the conference champion game is going to be a disappointment. If we fail to make the playoffs and don't win the division, I will be calling for his head. The window in the NFL to make a championship run is a small window and that window will soon reach it's peak for us and start its downward decent. Only one team has kept that window open for an extended amount of time and that is the Pats. We have all said that our coaching staff isn't half the coaches that they have. So in closing this is Marvin's break or make year. P.S. We are STILL the laughing stock of the NFL, thanks to Marvin.[/quote] I agree that we are at a point where mediocrity is no longer acceptable. Why do people worship Marvin? Because of his results in turning an awful franchise into one that is actually competitive. He must take the next step by taking the team from mediocrity to greatness. Support of Marvin should cease when he can no longer get results. Which was the outlier? This season? Or last season? He's had 4 years, and 3 8-8 records. We find out next year which is the real Marvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Jersey Bengal Posted January 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='432982' date='Jan 25 2007, 03:15 PM']I dont think the pick is a bad one at all, but I do question his choice in coaching staff.[/quote] [b]They will miss Grimm big time[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='New Jersey Bengal' post='432985' date='Jan 25 2007, 03:17 PM'][b]They will miss Grimm big time[/b][/quote] Agreed, but Im laughing at the Anderson and Arians picks, as a head coach the 1st thing you have a chance to show on your decision making skills is who you pick to be in your staff. Not good picks imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengals8580 Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 i agree. we were the laughing stock of the NFL before marvin, and we still are with marvin. FIRE MARVIN!!! woo hoo he got us from shitty to mediocre. well were still mediocre. i agree. we were the laughing stock of the NFL before marvin, and we still are with marvin. FIRE MARVIN!!! woo hoo he got us from shitty to mediocre. well were still mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Muntz Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='Jason' post='432971' date='Jan 25 2007, 03:02 PM']Yes, you can say we were a blown kick away from making the playoffs. But how about giving up 42 points in a half? How about only scoring 13 points against Tampa Bay? Or, back to the Stealers game, how about the wasted time out? If we still had that, it could have been a 29 yard FG. As for half time adjustments, it's pretty easy to see. For one, the afore mentioned 42 point explosion by the Chargers. Or how about the fact that the Bengals were outscored 85-61 in the 3rd quarter.[/quote] The Chargers came back like that on few teams, they are damn good team that gets paid millions of dollars as well. Yes, giving up 42 points in a half is unacceptable, but isn't the coordinators supposed to make the adjustments, I mean that's what they get for. Are you saying that a 39 yard field goal is too long for Graham, if so then we need a new kicker? Also being outscored by 24 points in one quarter doesn't necessarily mean the coaching staff isn't making adjustments. Obviously you think Marvin isn't a good enough for the Bengals as you keep playing devils adovacate in this thread, but then you say how you think Marvin should stay, it's like your on both sides of the fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Muntz Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='bengals8580' post='432991' date='Jan 25 2007, 03:24 PM']i agree. we were the laughing stock of the NFL before marvin, and we still are with marvin. FIRE MARVIN!!! woo hoo he got us from shitty to mediocre. well were still mediocre. i agree. we were the laughing stock of the NFL before marvin, and we still are with marvin. FIRE MARVIN!!! woo hoo he got us from shitty to mediocre. well were still mediocre.[/quote] another candidate for the ignore list, what's the legal drinking age in Springboro, 6 months? This has to be the ranting of a drunked child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='Nelson Muntz' post='432994' date='Jan 25 2007, 03:25 PM']The Chargers came back like that on few teams, they are damn good team that gets paid millions of dollars as well. Yes, giving up 42 points in a half is unacceptable, but isn't the coordinators supposed to make the adjustments, I mean that's what they get for. Are you saying that a 39 yard field goal is too long for Graham, if so then we need a new kicker? Also being outscored by 24 points in one quarter doesn't necessarily mean the coaching staff isn't making adjustments. Obviously you think Marvin isn't a good enough for the Bengals as you keep playing devils adovacate in this thread, but then you say how you think Marvin should stay, it's like your on both sides of the fence.[/quote] When have I said we should get rid of him? He has done well as a head coach on the non-gameday stuff. He has been less than spectacular as a game day coach though. I am hoping he grows in that capacity, the same way the players grow and improve with experience. But if he doesn't improve as a game day coach, and soon, it may be time to promote him to GM and bring in another coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='Nelson Muntz' post='432999' date='Jan 25 2007, 03:27 PM']another candidate for the ignore list, what's the legal drinking age in Springboro, 6 months? This has to be the ranting of a drunked child.[/quote] Its only comming from two people, neither of whom have ever given a knowlegeable post on football, just stop feeding the trolls and they will eventually get tired of beating their drums when noone is listening to their absurd rants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Muntz Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote name='Jason' post='433006' date='Jan 25 2007, 03:31 PM'][b]When have I said we should get rid of him?[/b] He has done well as a head coach on the non-gameday stuff. He has been less than spectacular as a game day coach though. I am hoping he grows in that capacity, the same way the players grow and improve with experience. But if he doesn't improve as a game day coach, and soon, it may be time to promote him to GM and bring in another coach.[/quote] Uh, the last sentence you typed..Like I said quit being so political about this and say how you truly feel, if that is possible. If you feel like Marvin needs to go then say so, but say "he's a great coach in one breath" and then say "but I would still like to see him replaced" in the next. It's either or, you can't believe he's a great coach and think that he's on a short lesh. Utimately this is a moot point because the only opinion that matters is the Mike Brown's and he hearts Marvin. I don't care who gets arrested, Marvin is a good football coach who is doing a great job in Cincy. But for shit and giggles I throw out a novel idea, when grown men get themselves in trouble how about we punish the grown men and not try to put the blame on Marvin Lewis, he's not their court appointed guardian who is responsible for them 24/7/365, he's just their goddamn football coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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