deltha to be traded

[TheBZ]

[quote name='Jeb' post='464152' date='Mar 29 2007, 09:45 AM']There won't be $30 mil left after we have to sign our FA's in '08. Contractual inflation will make sure of that.[/quote]

Agreed...And $30 Million just isn't that big a number any more. It sounds big...But it gets chewed up fast when the Tony Stewart's of the world cost $1.5M.

[quote name='Montana Bengal' post='464179' date='Mar 29 2007, 10:24 AM']Does anyone else think that if Justin doesn't get signed long term this year, that we won't attempt to sign him next year?[/quote]

I agree...I think if they can't extend him at $6-7M/season this year, they definitely won't be eager to do a big contract at $7.5-8.0M/season next year.

BZ

[Guest happyrid]

Having looked at the numbers and done a few calculations, here is what I have come up with:

1. Assuming that most of this year's and next year's draft picks make the roster you can add 12-16 guys to the number under contract for 08. At an average of about 650,00 that gets the roster number into the high 40s, with about 22 million to spare.

2. If you assume that we get 6 of the 9 RFA/ERFAs signed at an average of about 1 million, we will have a full roster and about 16 million in cap room.

Now, there are a number of guys who could end up getting cut in the next year, particularly some of the older D line so a few more spots could be open, but that would also increase cap room. The two big FAs will be Justin Smith (assuming he isn't extended) and Madieu Williams. 15-20 million in cap room should be plenty for those two and also leave us enough room to sign a couple of our own UFAs and some low price guys from around the league. But, after taking care of all our draft picks, RFAs, and some of our own UFAs, we are not likely to have a whole lot of money to go get high priced guys. Then again, we should have pretty much every single starter returning so there won't be huge holes to fill either.

[globetrotter]

[quote name='happyrid' post='464302' date='Mar 29 2007, 02:44 PM']Having looked at the numbers and done a few calculations, here is what I have come up with:

1. Assuming that most of this year's and next year's draft picks make the roster you can add 12-16 guys to the number under contract for 08. At an average of about 650,00 that gets the roster number into the high 40s, with about 22 million to spare.

2. If you assume that we get 6 of the 9 RFA/ERFAs signed at an average of about 1 million, we will have a full roster and about 16 million in cap room.

Now, there are a number of guys who could end up getting cut in the next year, particularly some of the older D line so a few more spots could be open, but that would also increase cap room. The two big FAs will be Justin Smith (assuming he isn't extended) and Madieu Williams. 15-20 million in cap room should be plenty for those two and also leave us enough room to sign a couple of our own UFAs and some low price guys from around the league. But, after taking care of all our draft picks, RFAs, and some of our own UFAs, we are not likely to have a whole lot of money to go get high priced guys. Then again, we should have pretty much every single starter returning so there won't be huge holes to fill either.[/quote]

Great point about the draft picks.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='globetrotter' post='464229' date='Mar 29 2007, 12:42 PM']Also we dont want to have to pay him corner money.[/quote]


That too.

[Guest BengalsOwn]

[quote name='PakMan' post='464223' date='Mar 29 2007, 12:37 PM']And why would Madieu at CB be such a bad thing?[/quote]

um, because he's not very good?

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]Hobson's Choice: O'Neal staying for now [/b][/size]

March 29, 2007


Hello Geoff how are you doing these days well I hope, anyway to the big question. What is this I am hearing about Deltha O'Neal being shopped around? Who would take his place as the other starting corner if we trade him?

I don't have that much confidence in Keiwan. Does Marvin? What are they looking to get out of him if this is true? A 3rd round pick I would assume or do you think we could get a 2nd? Can't wait to hear your opinion on this topic.[b]Curtis, Middletown, OH

CURTIS:[/b] That O’Neal trade report sounds like it’s a little dated, although nothing can be ruled out on Draft Day. But the temperature right is now is that he’s not on the block, he’s not going anywhere, and they need him because who is going to take his place?

Moving Madieu Williams from safety to cornerback is an idea that’s being kicked around but is probably going to depend on how the draft goes. And a move may end up being moot with his backup, Kevin Kaesviharn, now in New Orleans.

But Williams’ flexibility gives you flexibility in the first round. You take a corner, you can leave him at safety. You take a safety and then maybe you think about moving him, although there is some concern that Williams can play corner down after down. But certainly on nickel downs and in a Cover 2 he’d be a terrific corner because he can run and blitz.

But even if they draft a corner at No. 18, that doesn’t necessarily mean they want to go into the opener with their two starting cornerbacks having nine NFL starts among them, and all of them belonging to Johnathan Joseph.

All of which reflects why there are no plans to trade O’Neal at this point in time.

Now, maybe O’Neal wants to get traded but that’s a different story. During this past offseason Marvin Lewis has alluded to guys in ’06 who didn’t play well because they were thinking about contracts and O’Neal is a leading candidate because they didn’t re-do his deal after he went to the Pro Bowl and became the first Bengal ever with 10 interceptions in 2005.

All that said, I love the guy. He may be the best athlete on the team, he’s got great hands, and except for last season, always seems to be around the ball and makes something happen.

Why he struggled so badly last season, who knows? Injuries were a part of it and maybe the contract had something do with it. But if he returns to ’05 form (and they apparently have not counted him out), it’s almost like getting a big-time free agent.[/quote]


[url="http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=5959"]http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=5959[/url]

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='464417' date='Mar 29 2007, 04:45 PM'][url="http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=5959"]http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=5959[/url]
it’s almost like getting a big-time free agent.[/quote]


Except it's not.

[Guest happyrid]

I hate how it's made out that Deltha just had one down year after a stellar career. In fact, Deltha has had 2 good seasons in 8 years. There's about a 25% chance he'll play at anywhere near a Pro Bowl level next year.

[Guest Tigris]

[quote name='Lucid' post='464078' date='Mar 29 2007, 08:12 AM']Our secondary is to thin, Deltha has too much talent, and his value is too low right now for this trade to make any sense. We already need to draft DB's this draft just to fill the ranks, without losing our #1 corner.

I'm not a fan of moving Mad to corner, and Kilmer is WAY [b]to[/b] raw for anyone to have mentioned in this role for a playoff team trying to realize it's superbowl potential. This is not the time to be rebuilding our secondary in the draft.. This is the time to strengthen and fill holes and depth.

I think it is far more likely that Atlanta is interested in Deltha, and knowing the Bengals were less than satisfied with his play last season, approached them about a trade.. This doesn't mean the Bengals have any intention of reciprocating.

If we trade Deltha, we're getting more than just a 2nd round pick.. As good as J.Joe was last season, I still wouldn't have wanted him starting out of the gate, with nothing much behind him. Who do we have behind Joseph and O'neal right now? I know the answer - not enough.[/quote]
Your grammar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest OzBengal]

[quote name='happyrid' post='464421' date='Mar 29 2007, 05:24 PM']I hate how it's made out that Deltha just had one down year after a stellar career. In fact, Deltha has had 2 good seasons in 8 years. There's about a 25% chance he'll play at anywhere near a Pro Bowl level next year.[/quote]

Its his job to put a positive spin on the situation.

[Guest Tigris]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='464190' date='Mar 29 2007, 11:38 AM']AND?? No thanks.

Im not sure I like this myself.[/quote]
If Justin doesn't/can't get signed long term, and Marvin doesn't think Deltha can be the player he once was (or even close to that), then you almost have to do it if the deal was there. If not, you could possibly have Justin walk with nothing in return and a former pro bowl cornerback whose mind is so far out in left field that he can't concentrate on football.

I'd do it and take Landry with the pick.

[dex]

[quote name='Tigris' post='464452' date='Mar 29 2007, 06:03 PM']If Justin doesn't/can't get signed long term, and Marvin doesn't think Deltha can be the player he once was (or even close to that), then you almost have to do it if the deal was there. If not, you could possibly have Justin walk with nothing in return and a former pro bowl cornerback whose mind is so far out in left field that he can't concentrate on football.

I'd do it and take Landry with the pick.[/quote]
The Falcons wouldn't give up a top ten pick, not even with a first round swap. All indications are they want Landry themselves. I'm guessing that Hue Jackson is the one pressing for Deltha, hoping he can rehibilitate him. After all, O'Neal was brilliant in 2005. Maybe Marvin could tell him that they will redo his contract after the season if he returns to Pro Bowl form. That type of return would warrant a big raise.

[Guest Tigris]

[quote name='dex' post='464459' date='Mar 29 2007, 07:18 PM'][b]The Falcons wouldn't give up a top ten pick, not even with a first round swap.[/b] All indications are they want Landry themselves. I'm guessing that Hue Jackson is the one pressing for Deltha, hoping he can rehibilitate him. After all, O'Neal was brilliant in 2005. Maybe Marvin could tell him that they will redo his contract after the season if he returns to Pro Bowl form. That type of return would warrant a big raise.[/quote]
I don't think they will either. I'm just saying that I'd do the trade if it was offered.

Unless we bring in another defensive player via a trade, or a high draft pick (first 2 rounds) I am not for trading Deltha. Our defense is shitty as it is. We're already weak at corner, and this will only make it worst.

[bengaled]

[quote name='happyrid' post='464421' date='Mar 29 2007, 06:24 PM']I hate how it's made out that Deltha just had one down year after a stellar career. In fact, Deltha has had 2 good seasons in 8 years. There's about a 25% chance he'll play at anywhere near a Pro Bowl level next year.[/quote]


when we acquired deltha, coach coyle said they had to break him down (of his bad habits) so he could relearn the position...that is the way they wanted him to play it. for that reason, i'll only consider his years as a bengal.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Tigris' post='464444' date='Mar 29 2007, 06:47 PM']Your grammar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/quote]

dude.. it's a fucking typo.

too= excess
to = also

My finger probably only half hit the o since I type like 70 wpm and I don;t proof much.... This is a MB.. Not dissertation.

(case and point, the stupid ; I often end up with when trying to shift to a '. It's calle dtyping too damn fast and caring too damn little.)

[Cricket]

[quote name='Lucid' post='464471' date='Mar 29 2007, 07:35 PM']dude.. it's a fucking typo.

too= excess
[b]to = also[/b]

My finger probably only half hit the o since I type like 70 wpm and I don;t proof much.... This is a MB.. Not dissertation.

(case and point, the stupid ; I often end up with when trying to shift to a '. It's calle dtyping too damn fast and caring too damn little.)[/quote]



...actually: [b]too = also[/b]



[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/angel.gif[/img]

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Cricket' post='464476' date='Mar 29 2007, 07:38 PM']...actually: [b]too = also[/b]
[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/angel.gif[/img][/quote]

WOW...

Exactly ehy I am into computers for a living.. But you aren't exactly right]

[url="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/too"]2. to an excessive extent or degree; beyond what is desirable, fitting, or right: too sick to travel.[/url]

It was the meaning of 'to' I was wrong about as well.

[b](used for expressing motion or direction toward a point, person, place, or thing approached and reached, as opposed to from): They came to the house.[/b]

Thanks for pointing that out... I have been making this mistake for over 25 years.

[Guest Tigris]

[quote name='Lucid' post='464471' date='Mar 29 2007, 07:35 PM']dude.. it's a fucking typo.

too= excess
to = also

My finger probably only half hit the o since I type like 70 wpm and I don;t proof much.... This is a MB.. Not dissertation.

(case and point, the stupid ; I often end up with when trying to shift to a '. It's calle dtyping too damn fast and caring too damn little.)[/quote]
jesus christ. i was only joking around. hopefully your day gets better.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Tigris' post='464483' date='Mar 29 2007, 07:44 PM']jesus christ. i was only joking around. hopefully your day gets better.[/quote]

Sorry.. next time use a

[Cricket]

[quote name='Lucid' post='464480' date='Mar 29 2007, 07:43 PM'][quote]
...actually: too = also[/quote]

... [b]But you aren't exactly right[/b]]

....
[/quote]


According to Merriam-Webster, I am.

[url="http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/too"]http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/too[/url]

[i]1 : BESIDES, [b]ALSO[/b] <sell the house and furniture too>[/i]











Is that enough ninjas?



[...and one wave for good measure (I love the wave)]

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Cricket' post='464501' date='Mar 29 2007, 08:05 PM']... [b]But you aren't exactly right[/b]]

....
According to Merriam-Webster, I am.

[url="http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/too"]http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/too[/url]

[i]1 : BESIDES, [b]ALSO[/b] <sell the house and furniture too>[/i]


Is that enough ninjas?



[...and one wave for good measure (I love the wave)][/quote]

I know you are joking... But I was just trying to say I had at least one meaning of too correct. It does also mean in excess, no matter what dictionary you are using (assuming it is english).

[globetrotter]

[quote name='globetrotter' post='464255' date='Mar 29 2007, 01:12 PM']I would expect that we will get a report from bengals.com shortly about Deltha not being available via trade. We just are not deep enough at the position.[/quote]

Q: What is this I am hearing about Deltha O'Neal being shopped around? Who would take his place as the other starting corner if we trade him?

I don't have that much confidence in Keiwan. Does Marvin? What are they looking to get out of him if this is true? A 3rd round pick I would assume or do you think we could get a 2nd? Can't wait to hear your opinion on this topic.
--Curtis, Middletown, OH

CURTIS: That O’Neal trade report sounds like it’s a little dated, although nothing can be ruled out on Draft Day. But the temperature right is now is that he’s not on the block, he’s not going anywhere, and they need him because who is going to take his place?

[|Elflocko|]

Well.

Thanks for clearing that up...

[texbengal]

[quote name='happyrid' post='464421' date='Mar 29 2007, 05:24 PM']I hate how it's made out that Deltha just had one down year after a stellar career. In fact, Deltha has had 2 good seasons in 8 years. There's about a 25% chance he'll play at anywhere near a Pro Bowl level next year.[/quote]

I actually thought that Deltha had two Pro-Bowl quality years here -- his first two. His first year, Tory made the Pro Bowl, but I thought Deltha clearly outplayed him and was one of the better corners in the league, from what I saw... and then, in '05 when he made it to Hawaii. And he had better than one good year in Denver.

He was definitely sub-par last year, but I think he's certainly young and athletic/talented enough to rebound. Whether he's got the "fire" to do it -- well, that's a question in my mind. But at this point, I just don't see anyone on the present roster (or out there as a FA) that I'd want starting over him. I hope Keiwan or Brooks surprises me, but I'm not counting on it... and for my money, I'd bet that Deltha coming back and playing well is the surest bet. Maybe that'll change, but that's how I see it right now.

[scharm]

[quote name='texbengal' post='464538' date='Mar 29 2007, 09:31 PM']I actually thought that Deltha had two Pro-Bowl quality years here -- his first two. His first year, Tory made the Pro Bowl, but I thought Deltha clearly outplayed him and was one of the better corners in the league, from what I saw... and then, in '05 when he made it to Hawaii. And he had better than one good year in Denver.

He was definitely sub-par last year, but I think he's certainly young and athletic/talented enough to rebound. Whether he's got the "fire" to do it -- well, that's a question in my mind. But at this point, I just don't see anyone on the present roster (or out there as a FA) that I'd want starting over him. I hope Keiwan or surprises me, but I'm not counting on it... and for my money, I'd bet that Deltha coming back and playing well is the surest bet. Maybe that'll change, but that's how I see it right now.[/quote]

Correct. After his 2004 season it was no surprise to see him turn in a Pro Bowl year in 2005.