Cleveland Browns

[WhoDeyThink]

[quote name='Rumble In the Jungle' post='638311' date='Mar 1 2008, 11:57 PM']all i know is the browns isn't going to be cakewalk anymore![/quote]
Well that's very true.

Romeo has really turned the corner for the Browns. At least they don't draft until the 4th round

[B.A.B.]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='638292' date='Mar 1 2008, 10:48 PM']the bengals use same philosophy as the colts and patriots until last year, and build through the draft, etc, dont overpay, etc.. saying the browns arent an example of success doesnt mean a damn thing about the bengals..

but then again we have had far more success than they have the last 5 years...[/quote]

Who cares, man? Since fat ass has got there, they've done nothing but go UP. I don't care if they didn't make the playoffs last year. Look at the team they had last year, add Rogers, Stallworth, and Williams, and it's so easy to see the potential they have. Potential that we simply do not. We don't overpay through free agency, but we overpay our own players. Seriously, franchise tag Stacy Andrews? What the fuck has he done that shows the deserves that kind of money? Reach a goddamn deal with him, or let his ass go. No need spending money like that on a backup o-lineman who has never truly shown anything when we have glaring fucking holes on defense.

[TheBZ]

You people are killing me.

Signing a guy with 46 receptions last year - who was basically thrown away by the Saints a few years ago - for [b]7[/b] years is proof positive of how well they are doing things? Maybe we should have signed Chatman for 7 years after the 40+ catches he had for GB.

Obviously, they have been doing things better since Savage came along, but a 10-6 record last year puts them at the same hump we were at in 2005. Maybe we should wait until they become a model of consistency.

BZ

[claptonrocks]

can we at least play the Browns on the field before we annoint them as King Shit in the division????

[big_dish]

[quote name='claptonrocks' post='638340' date='Mar 2 2008, 04:16 AM']can we at least play the Browns on the field before we annoint them as King Shit in the division????[/quote]


True, the way the NFl season plays out is WAY different than the way fans think it will play out in the offseason.

And, in the NFL the phrase "The best laid plans of Mice and Men" surely does apply.

BUUUUT....

You cannot argue against teams who proactively try to improve their team to win a superbowl ASAP, and defend a team who for an entire lifetime has done not much more than remain status quo. ANd thats the issue here. Not that the Turds will beat us twice, but rather, that [u]their front office is doing everything they can to make sure they beat us, and everyone else[/u] in the division, twice

[Rick]

I just hope all of their FAs get injuries around the same time this coming season due to their ages and all of the wear-and-tear of the NFL. I hope we see all of them sitting together on the bench with ice bags, limping as they get up to walk.

However, I am also thinking they (their front office) are trying to get it done.

I'm also thinking to myself, "Do they have any money left to sign the people they draft? Maybe they only have enough money left to sign them for one year!

Who will the sign today?

[|SF2|]

[quote name='TheBZ' post='638338' date='Mar 2 2008, 03:59 AM']You people are killing me.

Signing a guy with 46 receptions last year - who was basically thrown away by the Saints a few years ago - for [b]7[/b] years is proof positive of how well they are doing things? Maybe we should have signed Chatman for 7 years after the 40+ catches he had for GB.

Obviously, they have been doing things better since Savage came along, but a 10-6 record last year puts them at the same hump we were at in 2005. Maybe we should wait until they become a model of consistency.

BZ[/quote]

Yeah, he had 46 receptions playing next to Randy Moss and Wes Welker. Furhthermore, Stallworth is only guaranteed 10 mil which is only 2.5 mil more than our franchise tag player and back up Stacy Andrews.

Adding a burner like Stallworth to the team will only stretch the field more for the Browns and open up the middle of the field for the Chose One and Edwards as well as making it easier for Lewis to run.

Is he a malcontent? Perhaps. Is he a criminal? No. Will he make the Browns offense better? Most likely.

The Browns are using FA to fill those final spots they think they need to fill to get over the hump. Will it work? Time will tell.

BTW the Browns have their own David Pollack in LeCharles Bentley. It will be interesting to see what happens with him as well as a healthy Winslow Jr.

What are we doing? (sounds of crickets chirping)

[Rick]

IF we don't sign anyone if FA, then I hope we draft 75% of our picks with defensive players. We should have enough picks to have a good core in two or three years to rotate our players with good players while playing the Browns' very old FAs.

[|SF2|]

[quote name='Rick' post='638371' date='Mar 2 2008, 08:49 AM']IF we don't sign anyone if FA, then I hope we draft 75% of our picks with defensive players. We should have enough picks to have a good core in two or three years to rotate our players with good players while playing the Browns' very old FAs. [/quote]

Weren't we supposed to already have a good core at this point? Marvin won't be here in two to three years if this year is a wash. JMHO.

[Rick]

[quote name='Rick' post='638371' date='Mar 2 2008, 08:49 AM']IF we don't sign anyone if FA, then I hope we draft 75% of our picks with defensive players. We should have enough picks to have a good core in two or three years to rotate our players with good players while playing the Browns' very old FAs. [/quote]


[quote name='SF2' post='638374' date='Mar 2 2008, 08:55 AM']Weren't we supposed to already have a good core at this point? Marvin won't be here in two to three years if this year is a wash. JMHO.[/quote]

We have to do what I said above. We have no choice. We needed one or two big DTs. We did not get any FADTs. We have no choice but to draft.

We are going to have to keep our semi good core players that we have this year for another year or two until the younger DL players are ready to take their places. We have no choice.

[|SF2|]

[quote name='Rick' post='638381' date='Mar 2 2008, 09:04 AM']We have to do what I said above. We have no choice. We needed one or two big DTs. We did not get any FADTs. We have no choice but to draft.

We are going to have to keep our semi good core players that we have this year for another year or two until the younger DL players are ready to take their places. We have no choice.[/quote]

Rick, I absolutly agree. My point is we should not be in this position once again. Its just the same thing every frikken year. Once again, our d line will be filled with marginal starters and rookies. Great.

[Rick]

[quote name='SF2' post='638385' date='Mar 2 2008, 09:09 AM']Rick, I absolutly agree. My point is we should not be in this position once again. Its just the same thing every frikken year. Once again, [color="#FF0000"]our d line will be filled with marginal starters and rookies[/color]. Great.[/quote]

BUT if we can develop the players we get this year, we may be able to get rid of all of the old guys after this year or 2009 and replace them with solid younger players.

They problem with that is, Carson, CJ, TJ, and the other top shelf players (?) will be two years olders!

We can always pick up one or two discarded players before the season begins to help put their fingers in the holes in the dykes.

[JungleCat]

Although I'm pissed that the Brown's are making all these moves, it doesn't mean anything til they prove it on the field. One thing I haven't really seen anyone point out is their secondary. THey traded away their best DB in Bodden. They don't have a draft pick in the first 3 rounds. Who do they have to stop our receivers? I guess time will tell.

[oldschooler]

Anyone else get sick of seeing Bengals fans
trying to convince other Bengals fans to step away from the ledge ?


There is a core of posters here, that do nothing but bitch, complain
and make it hard to believe that they do anything but root for the
demise of this team, so they can just say I told you so.


Anyway, yes The Browns have been agressive this offseason, at the expense of their draft, and their Defensive backfield. I'm not envious of the Browns.
So what they have done so far, has basically been their draft. They've mortgaged their future, for today.
To even try to build upon what they've done so far, they'll have to trade away future high draft picks.
When we all are excited about what players we drafted, all they'll have to talk about is the moves
they made in March. The Bengals can still make moves in Free Agency, and they will still have a draft.

[Rick]

The Cincinnati Bengals must use the draft [color="#FF0000"]ALWAYS [/color]as the way to get, develop, and keep (extend their contracts) their players. It has become clear to me after all of these years that is the only way to do it in this small, unexciting city. The top FAs will not want to play here, we have seen that over the years. Our only solution is to draft, develop, and extend the contracts of the young players. If we have a player who does not want to be here, trade him not for another current player, but for a draft pick. The Browns will be getting old sooner than later. Our draft picks of this year will not for a long time.

[color="#FF0000"]draft, develop, and extend...[/color]

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='Rick' post='638400' date='Mar 2 2008, 09:40 AM']The Cincinnati Bengals must use the draft [color="#FF0000"]ALWAYS [/color]as the way to get, develop, and keep (extend their contracts) their players. It has become clear to me after all of these years that is the only way to do it in this small, unexciting city. The top FAs will not want to play here, we have seen that over the years. Our only solution is to draft, develop, and extend the contracts of the young players. If we have a player who does not want to be here, trade him not for another current player, but for a draft pick. The Browns will be getting old sooner than later. Our draft picks of this year will not for a long time.

[color="#FF0000"]draft, develop, and extend...[/color][/quote]
You think Cleveland is an exciting place to play?

[Rick]

[quote name='akiliMVP' post='638413' date='Mar 2 2008, 09:52 AM']You think Cleveland is an exciting place to play?[/quote]

I think players see Cleveland more of a metropolitan city than Cincinnati. Cincinnati has never been or will never be a metropolitan city.

[akiliMVP]

There's absolutely no way Rogers gets his weight down in Cleveland. Can you see Crennel, a 400 pound Jabba the Hutt clone, tell 360 pound Rogers he needs to get his weight down? That would certainly be a funny conversation.

[Rick]

[quote name='akiliMVP' post='638421' date='Mar 2 2008, 09:58 AM']There's absolutely no way Rogers gets his weight down in Cleveland. Can you see Crennel, a 400 pound Jabba the Hutt clone, tell 360 pound Rogers he needs to get his weight down? That would certainly be a funny conversation.[/quote]

That is a good point. We don't need to take a chance on FAs that are old, fat, and/or with past injuries.

Our only solution is to draft, develop, and extend the contracts of our young players.

[bengalsfan1983]

[img]http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/Red_Right_88/toiletcopy.jpg[/img]

[sparky151]

[quote name='Rick' post='638400' date='Mar 2 2008, 09:40 AM']The Cincinnati Bengals must use the draft [color="#FF0000"]ALWAYS [/color]as the way to get, develop, and keep (extend their contracts) their players. It has become clear to me after all of these years that is the only way to do it in this small, unexciting city. The top FAs will not want to play here, we have seen that over the years. Our only solution is to draft, develop, and extend the contracts of the young players. If we have a player who does not want to be here, trade him not for another current player, but for a draft pick. The Browns will be getting old sooner than later. Our draft picks of this year will not for a long time.

[color="#FF0000"]draft, develop, and extend...[/color][/quote]

This is a recipe for becoming the rest of the league's farm club. Sort of like the old Kansas City Athletics used to sell their best players to the Yankees. Given that Cincinnati isn't a chic destination for players who have a choice, the team has a smaller margin for error. That means that the coaching, player evaluation, and front office must be better than most. Currently, that isn't our situation. Marvin and his staff are better than some and worse than others. The player evaluation is average. The front office is near the bottom of the league.

[Oldcat]

Its also what the Steelers have done for the last 15 years. See

[sparky151]

[quote name='Oldcat' post='638711' date='Mar 2 2008, 06:47 PM']Its also what the Steelers have done for the last 15 years. See[/quote]

The Steelers have had a better front office every day of the last 15 years. They've also had better coaches most days.

[DanvilleBengal]

So that's it then. We're giving up on the season before it started.


In the words of Dacow.......how pathetic.


Zimmer's rep is that he doesn't need the best ofthe best to work his magic, just a bunch of hungry players that are willing to listen to the coach. For the most part, with the exception of maybe Deltha, we have a vast majority of players that are willing to work hard and listen to the coach. Zimmer seems like the guy that will play the scrawny kid over the stud simply because he has the want-to to get his hands dirty.

There is not a single player on the defense that has name recognition. In spurts we has seen shades of brilliance from them. Hell, we actually succeeded in getting a shutout against the very same Browns that so many people are singing the praises of. And then we followed that up with almost getting another and winning a game that we had to have against the division champs at that time. The skill is there. Talent....ehh, I'm not so sure of. But I do have a feeling that we will be pleasantly surprised this year, whether we actaually get help or not.

Look at it this way. Everyone on the defense for the most part is RAW. That means that they can be molded. And in the case of a few like Brooks and maybe Thurman, they can be refined. We do see what type of work ethic that Brooks has in the offseason. Hell, the coaches raved about it. And in the season opener, it certainly did look like he had put it all together. Regardless of how long Odell's been away, he still has that playmakers knack. That is something that just doesn't go away. Thurman showed what he was capable of, and he didn't even know what in the hell he was doing. You don't just lose that.

Leon and JonJo look to be the real deal at the corners. Both's strengths are in man-to-man and bump and run. They both are sound tacklers. Leon really grew into his spot as a rookie, and JonJo finally showed the playmaking flair and the hands that he showed as a GameCock. It really does look like White and Chinny are the real deal as well. Both are physical, and seem to be developing that bond that creates a solid saftey duo.

Our LBs do look like the strength of the group on D, and we do have a pretty good coach to get them straight in Fitz, and judging by the way he ran the drills at the combine, I would say that he isn't gonna let shit slide. If we do go 3-4, we have potentially 4 solid OLB that all have the ability to rush and drop in Jeanty, Pollack, Henderson, and Geathers if we make that move. In the middle, you would have Brooks and Thurman, as well as Dhani, Corey Mays (I think he could be a player, Belichick does know LBs pretty good and the guy does have 3-4 experience), and quite possibly, Landon. Not to even mention a possible draft pick or two in this area.

Now to the defesive line. We do look pretty rough here, I will admit that. But I think we are gonna see more from Fanane and Rucker than we expected. For all we know, Rucker could be our Justin Tuck (I'm not proclaiming that, BTW). Peko does look like he can handle the point over the center, JT would possibly be better served as a 3-4 end than a tackle. Robinson possibly won't be here. And we ain't even counting that our potential OLBs in a 3-4 can all attack from a 3 point stance in a 4-3. Plus I do believe that we are gonna get an end and a tackle in this draft, not one or the other, but both. I personnally think that Justin leaving allows us to tinker with a 3 man line simply because everyone is game to try it but Justin's too stubborn to try something new. (Everyone knows about when Marvin wanted Justin to add other rush moves to his arsenal, but Justin wouldn't do it. And he's said himself that he's not a 3-4 guy. Kind of ironic that he's going to a team that uses a 3-4 base).

Call me naive, but I do think that some of the skills to run a sucessful defense, regardless of the front, are already here, and just need to be coaxed out. The main reason that we took our time and got Zim and Fitz. Do we need more talent over there? Obviously yes. But I do believe that we have the pieces already, and that it's the scheme that wrong.

I'm been on here with not liking to switch to a 3-4 base, but based on the fact that our LBs are huge, swift, and much better moving forward and being aggressive, and that our D-Line may just be better suited for holding the point as opposed to creating pressure, I am starting to warm up to the idea of a 3-4 defense, even if it a hybrid of what we are playing now with new shit added. In the end, isn't a 3-4 just a 4-3 with a DE just standing up instead of a 3-point?

[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]Browns have 'whooped' Cincy so far in free agency[/b][/size]
By Chick Ludwig

Staff Writer

Monday, March 03, 2008

As opening weekend of the NFL's free-agency period unfolded, a line from one of my favorite movies — the 1976 classic, "The Outlaw Josey Wales" — played in my mind like a broken record: "Whooped 'em again, didn't we Josey?"

Jaime's (Sam Bottoms) famous phrase to Josey (Clint Eastwood) is being repeated by Cleveland Browns fans, who are laughing uncontrollably at the Cincinnati Bengals.

The Browns fleeced Cincinnati during free agency 2007, ripping off guard Eric Steinbach and defensive tackle Shaun "The Hamburglar" Smith. Would they do it again? You betcha.

After the league office voided the Bengals' trade for Detroit defensive tackle Shaun Rogers on Friday night, Feb. 29, the Browns swooped in and stole the prized "Big Baby" because they made the best offer.

The Bengals were willing to give up third- and fifth-round draft choices to the Lions, but the Browns coughed up a proven player — cornerback Leigh Bodden — and a third rounder.

Cleveland has re-signed Pro Bowl quarterback Derek Anderson, added twin D-line terrors in Rogers and Corey Williams, and turned the receiving corps of Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow into a three-headed monster with the addition of Donte Stallworth.

Meanwhile, the Bengals whiffed on Rogers and lost defensive end Justin Smith and free safety Madieu Williams.

From my humble point of view, not quite 7,000 yards away in the press box, the Browns are the team to beat in the AFC North ahead of the Steelers, Ravens and Bengals.

Whooped 'em again.


Contact this reporter at (937) 225-2253

or cludwig@DaytonDailyNews.com.[/quote]