Draft Review from Tony Moss

[New Jersey Bengal]

[b]Cincinnati

1 - Keith Rivers, LB, USC (6-2, 241); 2 - Jerome Simpson, WR, Coastal Carolina (6-2, 199); 3 - Pat Sims, DT, Auburn (6-2, 310); 3 - Andre Caldwell, WR, Florida (6-0, 204); 4 - Anthony Collins, T, Kansas (6-5, 310); 5 - Jason Shirley, DT, Fresno State (6-5, 329); 6 - Corey Lynch, S, Appalachian State (6-0, 202); 6 - Matt Sherry, TE, Villanova (6-4, 250); 7 - Angelo Craig, DE/OLB, Cincinnati (6-4, 252); 7 - Mario Urrutia, WR, Louisville (6-5, 229)

Analysis: Whether the Bengals play a 4-3, 3-4, or some variation of both, the versatile Rivers should fit in nicely on a team that needed linebacking bodies in a big way. Cincinnati fans are probably not blown away by the selection of Simpson over several other big-name receivers, but Simpson might have had the best hands in this Draft and could prove worthy of the pick. Caldwell and Urrutia were both value picks who will also have a chance to contribute on a team with wideout concerns. A weak d-line will add Sims and Shirley to the rotation, and both look better suited to the 3-4. Collins looks like a starter at tackle, but certainly not right away. Lynch has "special teams captain" written all over him, while Sherry, who has terrific hands, might be the sleeper of Cincinnati's entire draft. Local favorite Angelo Craig might stick around as situational pass rusher.

Bottom Line: In an important draft for Marvin Lewis and company, the Bengals look to have passed with flying colors.

Grade: A- [/b]

[b]He likes Sherry a lot just as t Kiper does..he also likes Lynch a lot just as Kiper does...I think we did well in the draft..I'm happy with what we got ..If Shirley turns out to be decent our draft will have been awesome![/b]

[patno]

In the past I've been rough on Marvin and Mike.Gotta admit that I like this draft because it displays a plan.Can't give it an A because there are some "ifs" and the word "potential" which I hate.

The plan: rebuild the run defense up the middle.Rebuild the receiving corp.Add depth to thr OL.Add depth across the board.Add fresh blood to the team.Send Chad a message loud and clear. Cut out the dead wood and upgrade the character of the team with leaders.

Run defense upgrade: Rivers,Sims, Shirley and Lynch."Potentially" a huge upgrade .

Rebuild the receiving corp: No explanation needed.Done.

Add fresh blood to the team: Competition added at WR,S,OL,TE and DL."Potentially" a signuficant change in the works if these recruits pan out. Lynch could be the steal of the draft.

Chad message : Sent in CAPITAL letters.Play out your contract or have your skills deteriorate on the bench.You can still be a star or you can be ignored while getting paid.Believe me,Mike is capable of sitting this guy and paying him through the lenghth of his contract.Mikey has just slammed Drew Rosenhaus and branded him as personna non grata.This could be the demise of Drew's career if he doesn't wise up.My guess is that he'll receive the message and get smart.

Cut out the dead wood: Not clear yet but I anticipate many changes on the horizon.The vets had better put out or they're gone.

Character upgrade: They drafted four college team captains.What does that tell you ?

LIKE'S AND DISLIKES.

Love the drafting of Rivers,Simpson,Caldwell,Collins,Lynch.

"Potentially" Sims and Shirley could make fans recall Adams and Siragussa with Marvin and the Ravens.Could be the steals of the draft.

Not crazy about the drafting of Urrutia & Craig .Sherry will be a devopmental project.Would have liked to see a RB in the mix.They must feel comfortable with their existing RB's.Jeremi Johnson safe for one more year.

Sherry might be a big surprise.A challenge immediately to Coats and a "potential" replacement for Reggie Kelly in two years.

Finally,this draft "might" be the best the Bengals have ever had from a talent upgrade standpoint.They obviously had a plan for which they should be congratulated.If the two DT's work out we'll forget Ellis quickly.If the WR's work out we'll quickly forget the Chad problems and move on.If Lynch works out we'll be able to get rid of DJAX.If Collins works out,they'll probably be able to sign Stacey Andrews to a long term deal.At least he won't be able to hold the Bengals hostage.If Craig ,Urrutia and Sherry work out,it'll be viewed as an incredible draft. Lots of "ifs" and "potentials"

Props to Marvin and Mike for the plan.Props to Marvin,his staff and the personnel people for the picks.Props to Mike for sending the message to Chad.Eli and Drew that he won't be manipulated.They got their deals.Now honor their contracts.

The division looks solid.B'more & Pitts had good drafts.Cleveland sold it's future for a win now mentality.In two years I think they'll regret not having many picks in this years draft.

[The Scales]

Ellis Who?



A+++++

Excellent Draft


I'm Speechless...I'm Daydreaming...I'm Fascinated.

I will never, as long as this precious human body draws the sweet nectar of Breath, Never, ever Utter, NOR, type another negative thing about the Kings of the Jungle.

[patno]

[quote name='The Scales' post='660790' date='Apr 28 2008, 03:22 PM']Ellis Who?



A+++++

Excellent Draft


I'm Speechless...I'm Daydreaming...I'm Fascinated.

I will never, as long as this precious human body draws the sweet nectar of Breath, Never, ever Utter, NOR, type another negative thing about the Kings of the Jungle.[/quote]

Prediction,Scales.If those two DT's and Rivers work out,Marvin will recapture his "defensive guru " reputation.If not,it's going to hurt.They gambled on the two DT's .I'm hopeful that it works out.Then you've got the Brooks/ Thurman scenario.If they work out,the Bengals will have a top 10 defense.

[oldschooler]

Is patno, Patmo ? And if so, why ?

[VonBlade]

If Sims and Shirley play like their talent allows, without the physical and off-field issues, then we've got a madly awesome draft.

If Sims and Shirleys old problems surface, the small school guy is just measurables and not talent and the other WR is as big mouthed as he seems, we could be in trouble in a real hurry.

Kenny Irons was a great pick too. Tazeme Askew had potential. Soooooo..

[patno]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='660802' date='Apr 28 2008, 03:46 PM']Is patno, Patmo ? And if so, why ?[/quote]

Same.same,Old. I lost my sign in info,tried to email Go with no response.He was probably in NYC for the draft. Just changed one letter and got back into GB.COM.Man,it was wild around here yesterdsay.I couldn't keep up with all the posts.Great day !

I give the Bengals a B .If all these guys through rd 6 work out,The Bengals will look back in a few years and Get an A+.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='patno' post='660796' date='Apr 28 2008, 03:32 PM']Prediction,Scales.If those two DT's and Rivers work out,Marvin will recapture his "defensive guru " reputation.If not,it's going to hurt.They gambled on the two DT's .I'm hopeful that it works out.Then you've got the Brooks/ Thurman scenario.If they work out,the Bengals will have a top 10 defense.[/quote]


Shirley, is surely a gamble, but Sims isn't really a gamble IMO.

[sparky151]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='660832' date='Apr 28 2008, 04:44 PM']Shirley, is surely a gamble, but Sims isn't really a gamble IMO.[/quote]

I think Sims is a gamble in the sense that it's no sure thing he'll reach his ceiling. He has a lot of upside but was very inconsistent at Auburn. At times he looked dominant, other times he took plays off or displayed bad technique. He doesn't have a reputation as a hard worker. If he had Ellis' work ethic, he would have gone much sooner.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='sparky151' post='660843' date='Apr 28 2008, 05:15 PM'][b]I think Sims is a gamble in the sense that it's no sure thing he'll reach his ceiling.[/b] He has a lot of upside but was very inconsistent at Auburn. At times he looked dominant, other times he took plays off or displayed bad technique. He doesn't have a reputation as a hard worker. If he had Ellis' work ethic, he would have gone much sooner.[/quote]


I'll give you that, but you can say that about most all picks. However, even if he doesn't hit his ceiling but ends up being as good as or better than Peko, I think he'll be pretty good.


I guess what I'm saying is he's not a gamble in the sense that he's not as likely to be a bust. He has the talent to play like a round 1 DT, but even if he lives up to a 3rd round pick value, he'll be pretty good for us.



Not sure if I explained that well at all.

[UCJT]

You hear everything about Sims being an underperformer.... Since when did 4.5 sacks, 11.5 stops behind the line, 15 QB pressures, 2 fumbles and 3 deflected passes with 2 broken fingers mean underperformance?

[Bengal Chris]

Love the grade, makes me feel good.

[The Scales]

Every Pick is a Gamble in one way or another. And Yes, My good man if our new Dtackles do something ...approaching haynesworth area, GOD!!!


The Heads would be all over Marvin Incs. jock.

Because the team would be a playoff dy nasty.


"Oh, He's SUCH a geniuous."

"Oh, What a defensive guru this guy is."

"Oh, Mr. Brown has just been misunderstood, you nknow all the great ones are...."

"Oh, what a culture of winning he's established there, oH !!!!"
"Oh....I juss LOVES HOWS DEY HANDLES THAT CHAD JOHNSONS"




"CHAMPIONSHIP"

[Scoutforlife591]

[quote name='sparky151' post='660843' date='Apr 28 2008, 06:15 PM']I think Sims is a gamble in the sense that it's no sure thing he'll reach his ceiling. He has a lot of upside but was very inconsistent at Auburn. At times he looked dominant, other times he took plays off or displayed bad technique. He doesn't have a reputation as a hard worker. If he had Ellis' work ethic, he would have gone much sooner.[/quote]

What about Justin Harrell out of Tennessee by the Packers the year before.

He was a gamble, and he went in the 1st.

[patno]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='660832' date='Apr 28 2008, 04:44 PM']Shirley, is surely a gamble, but Sims isn't really a gamble IMO.[/quote]


Respectfully disagree,1181.For a big time talent he only had 38 tackles last year compared to Laws 112. The question is: does he have more talent that is late blooming ? I suspect that the answer is yes.If the answer is no,he'll be a bust.

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='patno' post='661089' date='Apr 29 2008, 12:32 PM']Respectfully disagree,1181.For a big time talent he only had 38 tackles last year compared to Laws 112. The question is: does he have more talent that is late blooming ? I suspect that the answer is yes.If the answer is no,he'll be a bust.[/quote]
Tackles are a pretty meaningless stat for defensive tackles. The numbers that actually matter are tackles for loss, sacks and hurries. Another thing you can't measure with stats are blockers occupied and stoutness vs the run.

What I'm getting at here is don't use Sims' tackle stats to say he wasn't a great player in college, because he was great.

[claptonrocks]

Ive read where Urrutia doesnt respond to hard coaching....The type you have to coddle maybe???
We'll see how that works out..
I think the primary purpose for drafting him was redzone territory....if it works fine....
minimum risk anyway...

[happyrid]

I think Sims was a risky boom or bust type of pick becuase I wouldn't be shocked if he was out of the league in a few years and I wouldn't be surprised if he was a Pro Bowler in a few years either.

However, a big part o that is just the nature of the position. DT and QB seem to be the riskiest picks in the draft because so many of them don't pan out. I don't think Sims was a bigger risk than many of the other DTs like Harrison, etc.

It is because of the high risk that I really like that we took 2 guys. I would be very happy if in 2 years one of the two is a very good player, even if the other is no longer on the team. If you are going to roll the dice, it is nice to have multiple rolls.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='claptonrocks' post='661156' date='Apr 29 2008, 02:36 PM']Ive read where Urrutia doesnt respond to hard coaching....The type you have to coddle maybe???
We'll see how that works out..
I think the primary purpose for drafting him was redzone territory....if it works fine....
minimum risk anyway...[/quote]


honestly, I think that may have just been a BPA pick at that point.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='happyrid' post='661158' date='Apr 29 2008, 02:47 PM']I think Sims was a risky boom or bust type of pick becuase [b]I wouldn't be shocked if he was out of the league in a few years [/b]and I wouldn't be surprised if he was a Pro Bowler in a few years either.[/quote]


Can I ask why you think that?

[Inigo Montoya]

[quote name='happyrid' post='661158' date='Apr 29 2008, 02:47 PM']I think Sims was a risky boom or bust type of pick becuase I wouldn't be shocked if he was out of the league in a few years and I wouldn't be surprised if he was a Pro Bowler in a few years either.

However, a big part o that is just the nature of the position. DT and QB seem to be the riskiest picks in the draft because so many of them don't pan out. I don't think Sims was a bigger risk than many of the other DTs like Harrison, etc.

It is because of the high risk that I really like that we took 2 guys. I would be very happy if in 2 years one of the two is a very good player, even if the other is no longer on the team. If you are going to roll the dice, it is nice to have multiple rolls.[/quote]


I agree with that last part. If we had taken just Sims, I don't know if I'd feel as optimistic. Maybe it is just faith in numbers.


I like the part about both players where they talk about their disruptive abilities. The ability to use size AND speed to create penetration isn't a given for most DT's. It's usually just one or the other. Sims doesn't have a great physique, but Shirley does. Sims still gets it done and he's proven it against elite college competition. I'll admit the guy I wanted, Sedric Ellis, is mostly speed and strength. He doesn't have as much size as either of these guys.