Second Round Draft Scenario

[Jason]

Assume the first round pick was Monroe or Oher.

Alex Mack has already been picked.

Between the 2 in the poll, who do you take at 38?

[Squirrlnutz]

I regretably take Unger.

If we get out of the first two rounds (+ free agency) without adding a starting LB I think we've messed up.

But getting a new C is the highest priority this offseason and we can't afford to let more than 1 of the top C's come off the board before we pick one up.

[bengaled]

[quote name='Jason' post='745319' date='Feb 9 2009, 08:34 AM']Assume the first round pick was Monroe or Oher.

Alex Mack has already been picked.

Between the 2 in the poll, who do you take at 38?[/quote]

man, that's a tough one! one of my biggest concerns is there could be a load of centers to come off the board before our 3rd round pick. even tho the center position is unusually deep this year, there's a lot of teams to offset that with a need for that position. for that reason, when i see a mock with caldwell or woods as our 3rd round pick, i have to second guess them. cenetr is obviously a bigger need than MLB. that said, laurenitis would be the much higher rated pick and very tough to pass on. i think he's the best 4-3 MLB in the draft and would bring just what we need at MLB.

in the final analysis i'd probably take james. then i'd get on the phones and offer someone a trade they couldn't refuse to get back into the 2nd round for one of the other centers (cuz we all know unger would go quick). like i said, IMO the cupboard will be bare by time we pick in the third and we don't need to waste another pick on a guichek type.

[|kennethmw|]

At 38, I'd take laurinitis. There is no way you could afford to pass the number 2 rated LB at a position of need that is rated to go in the top 20 in the draft at the 38th spot. Regardless, of how much or how little you like OSU, this kid has been one of the top LB in college football since his sophmore year, and teaming him with rivers would be beasty. I understand the C talk, but I would rather see G back or one of the other guys we think may be able to play center, and give Zimmer and Fitz the next building block in this up and coming D.

[Bengals1181]

I'd take Laurinaitis and then grab a center in the 3rd round. One of the good ones will likely be there, or you can also trade back up into the 2nd round to get one.

(hypothetically)
Laurinaitis + Eric Wood > Unger + McKillop

[Squirrlnutz]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='745421' date='Feb 9 2009, 04:32 PM']I'd take Laurinaitis and then grab a center in the 3rd round. One of the good ones will likely be there, or you can also trade back up into the 2nd round to get one.

(hypothetically)
Laurinaitis + Eric Wood > Unger + McKillop[/quote]
That all makes sense...


...but can't you just feel that horrible sensation in the pit of your stomach that would begin the moment the C we passed on (whoever it is) comes off the board 2-3 picks later...then the next C goes 4-5 picks later...

...and by the time our pick rolls around in the 3rd Mack, Unger, Luigis, Wood and Caldwell are all gone!!

Considering our "trading up into the round" history I wouldn't feel too confident banking on us being able to jump into the fray if we passed on the C spot in the 2nd and then they started rollin off the board.

If we don't end up with a high quality C in the draft we fail miserably, hence in this situation I'm taking Unger.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='745426' date='Feb 9 2009, 03:46 PM']That all makes sense...


...but can't you just feel that horrible sensation in the pit of your stomach that would begin the moment the C we passed on (whoever it is) comes off the board 2-3 picks later...then the next C goes 4-5 picks later...

...and by the time our pick rolls around in the 3rd Mack, Unger, Luigis, Wood and Caldwell are all gone!!

Considering our "trading up into the round" history I wouldn't feel too confident banking on us being able to jump into the fray if we passed on the C spot in the 2nd and then they started rollin off the board.

If we don't end up with a high quality C in the draft we fail miserably, hence in this situation I'm taking Unger.[/quote]


with the depth at C this year, honestly we can sit tight on the board until there are 2 left, then you can try and trade up if need be. If you have to give up a 6th to make sure you get the trade done, so be it, but its worth it to maximize your 2nd round pick. Odds are one of the C's will be there in the 3rd.

[scharm]

I think you do the dance of Joy if Laurinaitis is there in the 2nd round. Then I hope there is a run on Centers and maybe you find a top RB in 3rd.

[Squirrlnutz]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='745487' date='Feb 9 2009, 08:49 PM'][b]with the depth at C this year, honestly we can sit tight on the board until there are 2 left, then you can try and trade up if need be. If you have to give up a 6th to make sure you get the trade done, so be it, but its worth it to maximize your 2nd round pick. [/b] Odds are one of the C's will be there in the 3rd.[/quote]
There you go again...thinking like a rational person...and not like the Bengals FO

If I believed the team would be proactive and jump back into the mix if the centers were rolling off the board then I'd take Lauranitis in a heart beat...I just don't believe they will.

They'll sit back and go "well there is still 4 Cs left with 28 more picks until ours"

"Well there are still 3 Cs left with 16 picks till ours"

"Well there are still 2 Cs left with 11 picks until ours"

"Well there is still one good C left with 5 picks until ours"

Then Bam...the Ravens trade up and grab the last one a pick before we go.

I think upgrading the C spot is the highest priority we have this offseason. Its more important than finding a bookend tackle and its more important than finding an SLB or MLB...I think the team needs to take a C with our 2nd pick regardless of what happens with the first pick.

Plus if they are going to be proactive about moving up and getting a C at all, might as well do it and get back into the 1st round and get the best possible C in the draft.

[|kennethmw|]

[quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='745525' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:48 PM']There you go again...thinking like a rational person...and not like the Bengals FO

If I believed the team would be proactive and jump back into the mix if the centers were rolling off the board then I'd take Lauranitis in a heart beat...I just don't believe they will.

They'll sit back and go "well there is still 4 Cs left with 28 more picks until ours"

"Well there are still 3 Cs left with 16 picks till ours"

"Well there are still 2 Cs left with 11 picks until ours"

"Well there is still one good C left with 5 picks until ours"

Then Bam...the Ravens trade up and grab the last one a pick before we go.

I think upgrading the C spot is the highest priority we have this offseason. Its more important than finding a bookend tackle and its more important than finding an SLB or MLB...I think the team needs to take a C with our 2nd pick regardless of what happens with the first pick.

Plus if they are going to be proactive about moving up and getting a C at all, might as well do it and get back into the 1st round and get the best possible C in the draft.[/quote]

Squirl, I understand what you're saying, but I doubt the bengals are going to do Nothing at C this year. Last year we had to get Dorsey or Ellis or the world was over, but somehow Sims worked out pretty good. I'm pretty sure that Marvin at least knows we have to protect Carson, if were going to be competitive.

[Squirrlnutz]

[quote name='kennethmw' post='745627' date='Feb 10 2009, 01:21 PM']Squirl, I understand what you're saying, but I doubt the bengals are going to do Nothing at C this year. Last year we had to get Dorsey or Ellis or the world was over, but somehow Sims worked out pretty good. I'm pretty sure that Marvin at least knows we have to protect Carson, if were going to be competitive.[/quote]
While I wanted Ellis last year, the world was not going to be over for me if we didn't land him.

The only difference between that situation and this one is that more than likely 4 of the 5 best centers are going to be there when we pick in the 2nd round where as none of those guys were gonna be there at #9. With it being such a high priority I have a hard time believing they'll pass on the guy they have ranked 1st or 2nd in the class even if they think they can still get the guy they have ranked 4th or 5th in the third round.

But its all moot anyway as we are going to sign someone in free agency (LB or OT...we fuckin better) and that will clear up the 1st round pick and probably lock Center in as the 2nd round pick...unless of course we sign a center!

[|kennethmw|]

[quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='745637' date='Feb 10 2009, 01:55 PM']While I wanted Ellis last year, the world was not going to be over for me if we didn't land him.

The only difference between that situation and this one is that more than likely 4 of the 5 best centers are going to be there when we pick in the 2nd round where as none of those guys were gonna be there at #9. With it being such a high priority I have a hard time believing they'll pass on the guy they have ranked 1st or 2nd in the class even if they think they can still get the guy they have ranked 4th or 5th in the third round.

But its all moot anyway as we are going to sign someone in free agency (LB or OT...we fuckin better) and that will clear up the 1st round pick and probably lock Center in as the 2nd round pick...unless of course we sign a center![/quote]

Squirl, I wasn't trying to call you out on ellis, I was just sayin'. And in this situation, I guess I'm just saying the same thing, wouldn't Laurinitis and Caldwell or Woods, be better than Unger and whatever 3rd rd backer might be available, even if it's my hometown boy, Freeman?

[scharm]

How do you pass on a College LB that has been one of the top LBs in College for two years while at the same time you've started a new MLB every single year?

Center is not a higher priority than MLB. Some people may feel that way, but they've struggled more to find the long term answer at middle on the other side of the ball and it has hurt them plenty.

[Squirrlnutz]

[quote name='kennethmw' post='745660' date='Feb 10 2009, 04:36 PM']Squirl, I wasn't trying to call you out on ellis, I was just sayin'. And in this situation, I guess I'm just saying the same thing, [b]wouldn't Laurinitis and Caldwell or Woods, be better than Unger and whatever 3rd rd backer might be available[/b], even if it's my hometown boy, Freeman?[/quote]
Yeah I agree.


[quote]How do you pass on a College LB that has been one of the top LBs in College for two years while at the same time you've started a new MLB every single year?

[b]Center is not a higher priority than MLB[/b]. Some people may feel that way, but they've struggled more to find the long term answer at middle on the other side of the ball and it has hurt them plenty.[/quote]

I disagree there...while I have been vocal about needing to upgrade that spot for the very reasons you say, I would much rather go into next season with D. Jones in the middle than with Bluto snapping the ball.

But thats also why I think we need to grab an LB in the first...so we can go C in the second and not have this dilemma!

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='745707' date='Feb 10 2009, 07:54 PM']Yeah I agree.




I disagree there...while I have been vocal about needing to upgrade that spot for the very reasons you say,[b] I would much rather go into next season with D. Jones in the middle than with Bluto snapping the ball.[/b]
But thats also why I think we need to grab an LB in the first...so we can go C in the second and not have this dilemma![/quote]


IMO though you won't have to worry about that. He's a free agent, they haven't had any talks with his agent, and they've all but stated bluntly that the position needs to be, and will be upgraded. I still think we might fill the need in free agency and go with Cook (who was set to replace Bluto during the season before getting injured) and Crummey as backups.

[bengaled]

[quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='745525' date='Feb 9 2009, 09:48 PM']There you go again...thinking like a rational person...and not like the Bengals FO

If I believed the team would be proactive and jump back into the mix if the centers were rolling off the board then I'd take Lauranitis in a heart beat...I just don't believe they will.

They'll sit back and go "well there is still 4 Cs left with 28 more picks until ours"

"Well there are still 3 Cs left with 16 picks till ours"

"Well there are still 2 Cs left with 11 picks until ours"

"Well there is still one good C left with 5 picks until ours"

Then Bam...the Ravens trade up and grab the last one a pick before we go.

I think upgrading the C spot is the highest priority we have this offseason. Its more important than finding a bookend tackle and its more important than finding an SLB or MLB...I think the team needs to take a C with our 2nd pick regardless of what happens with the first pick.

Plus if they are going to be proactive about moving up and getting a C at all, might as well do it and get back into the 1st round and get the best possible C in the draft.[/quote]

yeah, shades of the '07 draft when we sat around and waited with our thumbs up our ass and saw all those backers come off the board in the 2nd round. "who do we draft now? i dunno, flip a coin. i guess we'll take that midget, oft-injured rb from auburn. you guys ever heard of him?"

what a waste. that was one of the most pathetic, unprepared drafting moments in bengal history.

of course the guys that always have management's back say it was planned all along...despite what lewis admitted to thereafter.

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='bengaled' post='745759' date='Feb 11 2009, 12:17 AM']yeah, shades of the '07 draft when we sat around and waited with our thumbs up our ass and saw all those backers come off the board in the 2nd round. "who do we draft now? i dunno, flip a coin. i guess we'll take that midget, oft-injured rb from auburn. you guys ever heard of him?"

what a waste. that was one of the most pathetic, unprepared drafting moments in bengal history.

of course the guys that always have management's back say it was planned all along...despite what lewis admitted to thereafter.[/quote]


I don't recall Irons being injured during his college career.

'Course not like I follow anything outside the Big 10 that closely so I could certainly be wrong...

[bengaled]

[quote name='kennethmw' post='745404' date='Feb 9 2009, 02:35 PM']At 38, I'd take laurinitis. There is no way you could afford to pass the number 2 rated LB at a position of need that is rated to go in the top 20 in the draft at the 38th spot. Regardless, of how much or how little you like OSU, this kid has been one of the top LB in college football since his sophmore year, and teaming him with rivers would be beasty. I understand the C talk, but I would rather see G back or one of the other guys we think may be able to play center, and give Zimmer and Fitz the next building block in this up and coming D.[/quote]

not to mention, he was the top rated LB prospect last year, before deciding to return for his senior year. yes, even rated ahead of rivers. his stock fell a bit this season, but he had another great year, nonetheless, and someone's going to get a solid LB with this selection.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='bengaled' post='745759' date='Feb 11 2009, 12:17 AM']yeah, shades of the '07 draft when we sat around and waited with our thumbs up our ass and saw all those backers come off the board in the 2nd round. "who do we draft now? i dunno, flip a coin. i guess we'll take that midget, oft-injured rb from auburn. you guys ever heard of him?"

what a waste. that was one of the most pathetic, unprepared drafting moments in bengal history.

of course the guys that always have management's back say it was planned all along...despite what lewis admitted to thereafter.[/quote]



I don't think taking a RB in the 2nd round that year was their Plan A, but they were certainly looking for a change of pace back that draft. They tried to fill another need rather than giving up a draft pick. And while Irons had injuries in college, they were mostly minor.


The draft is a tricky game and the trick is to be fluid and not be set in your ways in thinking "I have to grab a LB this round". If they didn't think the LB's were worth giving up the draft pick, then so be it. I know Marvin really wanted Durant that year (who went to Jax) and think he would have been our pick had he been there. Don't mind so much that we didn't get Woodley. He's had a great year this season, but I don't know that he could play SLB in a 4-3 scheme.

[Squirrlnutz]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='745787' date='Feb 11 2009, 08:51 AM']I don't think taking a RB in the 2nd round that year was their Plan A, but they were certainly looking for a change of pace back that draft. They tried to fill another need rather than giving up a draft pick. And while Irons had injuries in college, they were mostly minor.


The draft is a tricky game and the trick is to be fluid and not be set in your ways in thinking "I have to grab a LB this round". If they didn't think the LB's were worth giving up the draft pick, then so be it. [b]I know Marvin really wanted Durant that year (who went to Jax) and think he would have been our pick had he been there[/b]. Don't mind so much that we didn't get Woodley. He's had a great year this season, but I don't know that he could play SLB in a 4-3 scheme.[/quote]

That bolded part is reason I feel the team needs to get their C in this round.

How many times in the past 4 season have we read Hobnob articles the day after the draft talking about how they coveted so and so but he went 2-3 picks ahead of our spot? Durant and Lawson come to mind. They like to play the "smart game" where they don't give up "valuable" picks just to get someone they may really want...but I don't think its outrageous for a team to trade up and grab someone they really covet 1 in every 7 drafts. Good teams are built by treating picks wisely and not throwing them away every year....Great teams do the same thing but make a bold move every once in a while to move up and grab a guy who can put them over the top. We all know which pattern this team DOESN'T follow.

The run game has been abismal since Braham went down. They need to get a premier C to get the offense ticking again and I wouldn't want them taking any chances waiting around until the 3rd to grab whatever C is left...even if it ment passing on a guy like Lauranitis.

IMO the smart move is taking Curry or moving down to take the next best LB so we've upgraded the 2nd biggest need on the team and then grabbing the best C on the board (should have our choice of 4) in round two, to upgrade the 1st biggest need on the team. Ideally we now have another 2nd rounder from trading down which we can use to grab a road-grating RT thus filling our 3rd biggest need.

[claptonrocks]

Im assuming theyre smart enough to take Maualuga in the first then they can an OT in round two and possibly Wood in round three.

[Jason]

[quote name='claptonrocks' post='746065' date='Feb 12 2009, 12:19 AM']Im assuming theyre smart enough to take Maualuga in the first then they can an OT in round two and possibly Wood in round three.[/quote]

I wouldn't like that draft at all.

[claptonrocks]

[quote name='Jason' post='746101' date='Feb 12 2009, 07:01 AM']I wouldn't like that draft at all.[/quote]

thats what makes mock drafts fun...eveyone has their own opinion on who to take in what round..
Never works out how anyone envisions come draft day..

[bengaled]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='745787' date='Feb 11 2009, 07:51 AM']I don't think taking a RB in the 2nd round that year was their Plan A, but they were certainly looking for a change of pace back that draft. They tried to fill another need rather than giving up a draft pick. And while Irons had injuries in college, they were mostly minor.


The draft is a tricky game and the trick is to be fluid and not be set in your ways in thinking "I have to grab a LB this round". If they didn't think the LB's were worth giving up the draft pick, then so be it. I know Marvin really wanted Durant that year (who went to Jax) and think he would have been our pick had he been there. Don't mind so much that we didn't get Woodley. He's had a great year this season, but I don't know that he could play SLB in a 4-3 scheme.[/quote]

david harris was high on his list, as well. lewis made reference that all 3 were high targets of his, tho like you say, durant was at the top of that group.

do you really think jeanty would beat out woodley in a fair competition?

believe me, if any of those 3 LBs were on the board, they'd have been in stripes and very likely starting at this point.

[bengaled]

[quote name='claptonrocks' post='746065' date='Feb 12 2009, 12:19 AM']Im assuming theyre smart enough to take Maualuga in the first then they can an OT in round two and possibly Wood in round three.[/quote]


and what if wood's gone...and luigs is gone...and caldwell is gone? believe me, if you've looked at other teams' needs that very likely could happen.the center candidates go into the shitter after that and the best you get is someone that probably doesn't even measure up to guichuic. now that would be ok if they obtained a legitimate center in FA, but we're talking mike brown, here.