|Elflocko| Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='BengalBacker' post='773211' date='May 3 2009, 08:31 PM']Yeah, here's the full quote. "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts[/quote] That's the stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='773198' date='May 3 2009, 08:06 PM']prog?[/quote] progressive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='Elflocko' post='773210' date='May 3 2009, 09:30 PM']Yes or no?[/quote] again, it isnt a yes or no question Here is a yes or no for you. Is Allah and God the same? Now go from there and you will know why it isnt a yes or no question. [quote name='BengalBacker' post='773215' date='May 3 2009, 09:33 PM']progressive[/quote] thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='773216' date='May 3 2009, 08:34 PM']again, it isnt a yes or no question Here is a yes or no for you. Is Allah and God the same? Now go from there and you will know why it isnt a yes or no question.[/quote] Considering that they're both the god of the OT, neither one exists... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 forget it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 One other thing, how many of you who are upset about people making fun of someone's faith, have never made fun of scientologists, or Mormans, or the 72 virgins thing with Muslims? Like the quote implies, I find the things Christians believe to be just as ridiculous as the things those other religions believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='773221' date='May 3 2009, 08:38 PM']forget it[/quote] What? Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are all Abrahamic religions, thus they all get their start from the same place. [quote name='BengalBacker' post='773223' date='May 3 2009, 08:40 PM']One other thing, how many of you who are upset about people making fun of someone's faith, have never made fun of scientologists, or Mormans, or the 72 virgins thing with Muslims? Like the quote implies, I find the things Christians believe to be just as ridiculous as the things those other religions believe.[/quote] Xenu will strike you down for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='BengalBacker' post='773223' date='May 3 2009, 07:40 PM']I find the things Christians believe to be just as ridiculous as the things those other religions believe.[/quote] I actually don't, but that's just me and my weird, selective brand of Christianity (which I do not live up to by any means). I think that the Old Testament is garbage and that only the New Testament matters, besides Revelations, which is just either gobbldeygook or persecuted Christians of that time writing something in code. Jesus' words/acts/teachings are really the only things that matter to me, and even those are hard to live by, because I have stolen, I have wanted to fuck my neighbor's wife, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='Bunghole' post='773232' date='May 3 2009, 09:33 PM']I actually don't, but that's just me and my weird, selective brand of Christianity (which I do not live up to by any means). I think that the Old Testament is garbage and that [b]only the New Testament matters,[/b] besides Revelations, which is just either gobbldeygook or persecuted Christians of that time writing something in code. Jesus' words/acts/teachings are really the only things that matter to me, and even those are hard to live by, because I have stolen, I have wanted to fuck my neighbor's wife, etc.[/quote] Just playing devil's advocate. You mention the teachings of Jesus, but also within the NT are the teachings of Paul, which is where the church gets most of its dogma. What about that? :brow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='Elflocko' post='773234' date='May 3 2009, 08:36 PM']Just playing devil's advocate. You mention the teachings of Jesus, but also within the NT are the teachings of Paul, which is where the church gets most of its dogma. What about that? :brow:[/quote] Dogmatic bullshit that the (mostly) Catholic Church decided to expound upon over more than a millenia doesn't faze me. There mere term "dogmatic" is enough to insure that it is a completely man-made creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='Bunghole' post='773232' date='May 3 2009, 09:33 PM']I actually don't, but that's just me and my weird, selective brand of Christianity (which I do not live up to by any means).[/quote] I do. Front to back, cover to cover, Adam and Eve, to immaculate conception, to resurrection, to salvation through the belief in Jesus, to holy trinity, to four horsemen. IMO, all ridiculous notions. If the argument is that it isn't to be taken literally, then what good is it? To tell people they should be good to each other? I don't need false religion to tell me that, evolution has taught me that my chances of survival are better if I work together with, and get along with the people around me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='BengalBacker' post='773238' date='May 3 2009, 09:44 PM']I do. Front to back, cover to cover, Adam and Eve, to immaculate conception, to resurrection, to salvation through the belief in Jesus, to holy trinity, to four horsemen. IMO, all ridiculous notions. If the argument is that it isn't to be taken literally, then what good is it? To tell people they should be good to each other? I don't need false religion to tell me that, evolution has taught me that my chances of survival are better if I work together with, and get along with the people around me.[/quote] Exactly. Don't be a dick and you lessen the chances of getting a spear in the back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='BengalBacker' post='773238' date='May 3 2009, 08:44 PM']I do. Front to back, cover to cover, Adam and Eve, to immaculate conception, to resurrection, to holy trinity, to four horsemen. IMO, all ridiculous notions. If the argument is that it isn't to be taken literally, then what good is it? To tell people they should be good to each other? I don't need false religion to tell me that, evolution has taught me that my chances of survival are better if I work together with, and get along with the people around me.[/quote] Oh, I certainly don't disagree with that notion. Atheists are well within their right minds to ascertain that certain kinds of behavior are beneficial to themselves and society at large. It's just a coincidence that those very same tenets are preached by Jesus Christ. And not followed very much by his self-proclaimed followers. Or many atheists, for that matter. I can't argue my faith, as weak as it is. I have no logical justification for it. It's just there. I like to say that my belief in God was reinforced when I took a few Astronomy classes in college and I began to understand the distances involved within the Universe, how stars form and die, how our lives are a mote of dust on the time scale WRT cosmic occurences, etcetera. Of course, that could be a coincedence too. I suppose we'll all find out one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='Bunghole' post='773245' date='May 3 2009, 09:51 PM']Oh, I certainly don't disagree with that notion. Atheists are well within their right minds to ascertain that certain kinds of behavior are beneficial to themselves and society at large. It's just a coincidence that those very same tenets are preached by Jesus Christ. And not followed very much by his self-proclaimed followers. Or many atheists, for that matter. I can't argue my faith, as weak as it is. I have no logical justification for it. It's just there. I like to say that my belief in God was reinforced when I took a few Astronomy classes in college and I began to understand the distances involved within the Universe, how stars form and die, how our lives are a mote of dust on the time scale WRT cosmic occurences, etcetera. Of course, that could be a coincedence too. [b]I suppose we'll all find out one way or another.[/b][/quote] Problem is you'll never be able to tell anyone what you found... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='Elflocko' post='773249' date='May 3 2009, 09:01 PM']Problem is you'll never be able to tell anyone what you found... [/quote] You live in Vegas...is hedging your bets considered spiritual in any way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='Bunghole' post='773257' date='May 3 2009, 10:26 PM']You live in Vegas...is hedging your bets considered spiritual in any way? [/quote] Are you kidding? It's a prerequisite for residency! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 I thought we established there is no God when the stealers won the Super Bowl again last year. It convinced me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='BengalBacker' post='773259' date='May 3 2009, 10:33 PM']I thought we established there is no God when the stealers won the Super Bowl again last year. It convinced me.[/quote] X2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='BengalBacker' post='773259' date='May 3 2009, 09:33 PM']I thought we established there is no God when the stealers won the Super Bowl again last year. It convinced me.[/quote] No, no, no... Jesus is like the Bengals...He (we) has/have to suffer in order to purify ourselves before God(dell). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='773198' date='May 3 2009, 09:06 PM']prog?[/quote] Yeah progressive metal as someone has already said. Think Dream Theater or Tool...but far worse! [quote name='Bunghole' post='773232' date='May 3 2009, 10:33 PM']I actually don't, but that's just me and my weird, selective brand of Christianity (which I do not live up to by any means). [b]I think that the Old Testament is garbage and that only the New Testament matters[/b], besides Revelations, which is just either gobbldeygook or persecuted Christians of that time writing something in code. Jesus' words/acts/teachings are really the only things that matter to me, and even those are hard to live by, because I have stolen, I have wanted to fuck my neighbor's wife, etc.[/quote] I have a couple of questions. You say the OT is garbage and you're only interested in the NT and its message. Garbage how so? Is it false? Is the OT or many things in the OT [u]not[/u] the infalable word of god? I just ask because if you feel sure enough to identify one section, one book, one line of the OT as [u]not the actual message[/u] of god...how can you logically accept any of it as an actual message of god? Where is the line that you suddenly say "ok the rest is just mythology but this is the real-deal-holyfield?" I guess I'm curious why you follow Jesus' teachings and not say "the golden rule?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='773294' date='May 4 2009, 07:35 AM']Yeah progressive metal as someone has already said. Think Dream Theater or Tool...but far worse! I have a couple of questions. You say the OT is garbage and you're only interested in the NT and its message. Garbage how so? Is it false? Is the OT or many things in the OT [u]not[/u] the infalable word of god? I just ask because if you feel sure enough to identify one section, one book, one line of the OT as [u]not the actual message[/u] of god...how can you logically accept any of it as an actual message of god? Where is the line that you suddenly say "ok the rest is just mythology but this is the real-deal-holyfield?" I guess I'm curious why you follow Jesus' teachings and not say "the golden rule?"[/quote] Well, to clarify, I don't really [i]follow[/i] Jesus teachings so much as [i]aspire[/i] to follow them, because I am a weak human being. Secondly, I believe Jesus existed, and I believe that he was God incarnated into man, and I think God did that as much to gain understanding of [i]us[/i] as He did for us to understand [i]Him[/i] (I know, I know, daring to presume to know the mind of God and all). The Old Testament has some importance, but more as a historical reference of the kingdom of Israel and the Jews throughout part of a period in time. There's also a bunch of bullshit in there (Adam and Eve, The Great Flood) which is at best metaphorical and at worst believed literally by idiots. And nice stories about David And Goliath, etc...and there's a bunch of instances where God vacillates between being a complete unforgiving bastard and a merciful creator. God in the form of Jesus is ever merciful, ever-forgiving...unlike God The Father in the OT. I know this all sounds hypocritical, but that's my take on my piecemeal accumulation of my weak-ass faith, which I've cobbled together over the years from Catholicism, reading and talking to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='Bunghole' post='773313' date='May 4 2009, 11:03 AM']Well, to clarify, I don't really [i]follow[/i] Jesus teachings so much as [i]aspire[/i] to follow them, because I am a weak human being. Secondly, I believe Jesus existed, and I believe that he was God incarnated into man, and I think God did that as much to gain understanding of [i]us[/i] as He did for us to understand [i]Him[/i] (I know, I know, daring to presume to know the mind of God and all). The Old Testament has some importance, but more as a historical reference of the kingdom of Israel and the Jews throughout part of a period in time. There's also a bunch of bullshit in there (Adam and Eve, The Great Flood) which is at best metaphorical and at worst believed literally by idiots. And nice stories about David And Goliath, etc...and there's a bunch of instances where God vacillates between being a complete unforgiving bastard and a merciful creator. God in the form of Jesus is ever merciful, ever-forgiving...unlike God The Father in the OT. I know this all sounds hypocritical, but that's my take on my piecemeal accumulation of my weak-ass faith, which I've cobbled together over the years from Catholicism, reading and talking to others.[/quote] Well as always the most important part of the faith question is that YOU examined the situation, YOU put thought into it, and YOU arrived at YOUR OWN conclusion. Few people dare to tread beyond what they are told to accept as faith into the realm of skepticism of any kind and I salute you...though I do find it interesting that you admit all of your beliefs don't harmonize together. That was the thing that first lead me away from religion, I just couldn't rectify how a book could contain so much that is clearly mythology and or blatantly bigoted or sexist and then somewhere along the lines actually contain some truth that needs to be taken and understood as the infallable word of god. I would argue that there is nothing positive offered in the bible (the teachings and moral lessons of Jesus) that you can't arrive at through rational discourse without a supernatural dogma attached to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontPushMe Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='773352' date='May 4 2009, 12:11 PM']Well as always the most important part of the faith question is that YOU examined the situation, YOU put thought into it, and YOU arrived at YOUR OWN conclusion. Few people dare to tread beyond what they are told to accept as faith into the realm of skepticism of any kind and I salute you...though I do find it interesting that you admit all of your beliefs don't harmonize together. That was the thing that first lead me away from religion, I just couldn't rectify how a book could contain so much that is clearly mythology and or blatantly bigoted or sexist and then somewhere along the lines actually contain some truth that needs to be taken and understood as the infallable word of god. I would argue that there is nothing positive offered in the bible (the teachings and moral lessons of Jesus) that you can't arrive at through rational discourse without a supernatural dogma attached to it.[/quote] i agree with most of what you said if a god really wrote the bible there wouldnt be so many proveably wrong things in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTBengalsFan Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 It also contains no sort of scientific insight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 [quote name='CTBengalsFan' post='773415' date='May 4 2009, 06:48 PM']It also contains no sort of scientific insight...[/quote] Oh no? [img]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/lodge308/dinosaur-tshirt-christian.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.