Trade that would make sense Bengals T Anthony Collins for Packers DE Aaron Kampman

[Oldcat]

The original article talks about this trade solving problems for both teams, the writer apparently did absolutely no research about our team needs this year as opposed to 2006 needs. This is a team that was leading the league in sacks when this was written. The supposition that we really need pass rush help is questionable. That we would give up a precious OL talent is questionable.

Collins has played both tackle positions with some success if not dominance. He makes virtually nothing. He could also probably play guard pretty well. This isn't something to toss out for a DE that might play as much as Frostee Rucker does for us.

[Rumble In the Jungle]

fuck it, since yall wanna talk crazy, let just go for the big tuna.....how about Adrien Peterson ???

[Oldcat]

[quote name='Rumble In the Jungle' date='15 October 2009 - 11:42 PM' timestamp='1255671736' post='816872']
fuck it, since yall wanna talk crazy, let just go for the big tuna.....how about Adrien Peterson ???
[/quote]
Costs too much - Benson is 80 pct of his production for a fifth the cost.

[bengaled]

[quote name='Oldcat' date='16 October 2009 - 01:58 AM' timestamp='1255669108' post='816867']
The original article talks about this trade solving problems for both teams, the writer apparently did absolutely no research about our team needs this year as opposed to 2006 needs. This is a team that was leading the league in sacks when this was written. The supposition that we really need pass rush help is questionable. That we would give up a precious OL talent is questionable.

Collins has played both tackle positions with some success if not dominance. He makes virtually nothing. He could also probably play guard pretty well. This isn't something to toss out for a DE that might play as much as Frostee Rucker does for us.
[/quote]

you really think campman would get no more playing time than frostee rucker? come on... he'd likely be the best pass rusher we'd have, if we made that deal. you can never have enough pass rushers and i'm sure we could find a role for him. if collins had showed "such dominance", dennis roland wouldn't be taking his job away.

[B.A.B.]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='15 October 2009 - 03:08 PM' timestamp='1255630123' post='816687']
I heard from the inside that is exactly what happened.

I heard that TJ was worse then Chad behind closed doors. He was just better at hiding it from the media.

There are a lot of people inside the organization that are glad TJ is gone, and they believe it has helped team chemistry a ton.
[/quote]

Where do you guys hear this stuff from? Seriously. I'm tired of all the TJ hate on here when you hardly know the whole story. It's like high school gossip.

[Rumble In the Jungle]

[quote name='B.A.B.' date='16 October 2009 - 12:05 PM' timestamp='1255705547' post='816973']
Where do you guys hear this stuff from? Seriously. I'm tired of all the TJ hate on here when you hardly know the whole story. It's like high school gossip.
[/quote]

it's worse B.A.B.

[Oldcat]

[quote name='bengaled' date='16 October 2009 - 08:51 AM' timestamp='1255704707' post='816964']
you really think campman would get no more playing time than frostee rucker? come on... he'd likely be the best pass rusher we'd have, if we made that deal. you can never have enough pass rushers and i'm sure we could find a role for him. if collins had showed "such dominance", dennis roland wouldn't be taking his job away.
[/quote]

I said "if not dominance" which means that Collins was not dominant.

My point is this. The trade solves a huge problem for Green Bay, because their current tackles suck big time. The cost to Green Bay is minimal, because in their 3-4 the defender is out of position. So GB solves a huge problem and gives up little.

Now go to our side. Even if Andre plays well, Collins has value to us as a reserve at RT, a possible starting LT, or guard. At the current moment, since Andre hasn't even hit the field his value is far far higher to us. So we give up far more than GB in this trade. And what do we get in return? Even if the DE plays as he did in years past, we have Odom and Geathers and MJ who are playing well, and some of whom will get reduced reps. So the benefit to us is really increased depth to a unit already performing well, not a repair of a serious problem for us.

Thus my complaint about the slant of the article. GB gives up little, solves a critical problem. We give up more, get less.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Oldcat' date='16 October 2009 - 03:15 AM' timestamp='1255673748' post='816874']
Costs too much - Benson is 80 pct of his production for a fifth the cost.
[/quote]


As of right now.. Benson has more yards than Peterson going up against stouter resistance.. I'm not saying he is better, but at least right now, that would seem like giving up something to move laterally.

Benson was a 4th overall pick for a reason.. The dude has serious talent. In Chicago he tripped over his own ego, and then had team mates who were happy to pile on. He never really had a chance there.

I say we thank the football gods for delivering a "born again" 4th overall selection with a chip on his shoulder to prove "he is what they thought he were". And stop this talk of AP before we anger them.

[Oldcat]

I wasn't trying to insult Cedric, and of course to date Ced is better. It was more in the calculation that Cedric might make 1500 this year in our offense while AP makes 1750 or so. Its also possible that Peterson might not be quite as good a power runner as Cedric, which we really need in the AFC North.

It was more a rough way of saying the kind of salary issues that teams have to work with in the age of the Cap. The Bengals want to pay their QB and WR the most money on offense, and pay the offense more than half the total cap. Until Farve came along Peterson would have been their #1 contract on Offense. We'd rather not pay that much, as it blows the budget.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Oldcat' date='16 October 2009 - 03:53 PM' timestamp='1255719238' post='817071']
I wasn't trying to insult Cedric, and of course to date Ced is better. It was more in the calculation that Cedric might make 1500 this year in our offense while AP makes 1750 or so. Its also possible that Peterson might not be quite as good a power runner as Cedric, which we really need in the AFC North.

It was more a rough way of saying the kind of salary issues that teams have to work with in the age of the Cap. The Bengals want to pay their QB and WR the most money on offense, and pay the offense more than half the total cap. Until Farve came along Peterson would have been their #1 contract on Offense. We'd rather not pay that much, as it blows the budget.
[/quote]


My response was meant in addendum to your comment..

[Spinylumpsucker]

Collins is not going anywhere. He is a very talented young OL. Yes Smith is coming back and Roland is playing well. It is highly likely that he will get moved to guard after the season. Every single one of our guards (+ our center, FYI) is a FA after the season. The best of that group, Williams, will be 34 next year. We can't keep them all. Keeping Collins and moving him inside will add young talent to what will be a thin position group, and would not force us to ignore a BPA in the draft in favor of a need to fill a hole. In my opinion, I think Collins could be an excellent guard with his toughness and athleticism.

[cwing]

[quote name='Oldcat' date='16 October 2009 - 01:26 PM' timestamp='1255710383' post='816998']
I said "if not dominance" which means that Collins was not dominant.

My point is this. The trade solves a huge problem for Green Bay, because their current tackles suck big time. The cost to Green Bay is minimal, because in their 3-4 the defender is out of position. So GB solves a huge problem and gives up little.

Now go to our side. Even if Andre plays well, Collins has value to us as a reserve at RT, a possible starting LT, or guard. At the current moment, since Andre hasn't even hit the field his value is far far higher to us. So we give up far more than GB in this trade. And what do we get in return? Even if the DE plays as he did in years past, we have Odom and Geathers and MJ who are playing well, and some of whom will get reduced reps. So the benefit to us is really increased depth to a unit already performing well, not a repair of a serious problem for us.

Thus my complaint about the slant of the article. GB gives up little, solves a critical problem. We give up more, get less.
[/quote]


[quote name='Spinylumpsucker' date='16 October 2009 - 07:29 PM' timestamp='1255732193' post='817134']
Collins is not going anywhere. He is a very talented young OL. Yes Smith is coming back and Roland is playing well. It is highly likely that he will get moved to guard after the season. Every single one of our guards (+ our center, FYI) is a FA after the season. The best of that group, Williams, will be 34 next year. We can't keep them all. Keeping Collins and moving him inside will add young talent to what will be a thin position group, and would not force us to ignore a BPA in the draft in favor of a need to fill a hole. In my opinion, I think Collins could be an excellent guard with his toughness and athleticism.
[/quote]

There you guys go making sense. Don't you know we will have none of that?

We will be trading Simpson for Peterson and Peterson will be our 3rd down back. We are also going to begin using the Wildcat once Peterson is in strips. We will also be trading Jordan Palmer for Haynesworth and insert for favorite MLBer here.

As far as Tj -------- this team has better character now than in the past. Tj was a big part of the old character. Yes he caught a bunch of balls but he still caused locker room issues..........

[Oldcat]

[quote name='cwing' date='16 October 2009 - 06:47 PM' timestamp='1255740424' post='817156']
We will also be trading Jordan Palmer for Haynesworth and insert for favorite MLBer here.

[/quote]

Well Jordan does know the system in Washington, so its a good fit...

[Bengals1181]

time to go get us a TE.

[John~Galt]

Maybe this trade makes more sense now. I got my fingers crossed that Odom is not out for the season but it doesn't look good.

[Bengals1181]

I still want to know who we activated to replace Leonard since it wasn't Coffman. Livings?

[ChicagoBengal]

[quote name='Bengals1181' date='18 October 2009 - 04:24 PM' timestamp='1255897478' post='818316']
I still want to know who we activated to replace Leonard since it wasn't Coffman. Livings?
[/quote]
I think Tom Nelson.

[BengalsOwn]

why would the packers trade kampman for an offensive linemen who was benched in favor of roland?

[JC]

[quote name='Bengals1181' date='18 October 2009 - 05:24 PM' timestamp='1255897478' post='818316']
I still want to know who we activated to replace Leonard since it wasn't Coffman. Livings?
[/quote]
Either Jeanty or Nelson. We activated no offensive players to replace him.

[cwing]

Maybe bring in a pass rusher would be a good idea with the loss of Odoms. However, anyone that thinks this oline has crossed the bridge is sadly mistaken.

Olineman should be a top priority again next season.

[Abu-Zayd]

i would take Kampman in a second. he is better than ANY pass rusher we have. he would instantly make our defense better. can you imagine? a guy that brings pressure consistently would be huge. Odom was good, but he wasn't going to beat anyone (except packer LT's) around the edge. Kampman does. 40 sacks in 3 years??? there should be no second thought! livings, mathis, roland, and smith coming back soon make this trade a sure thing if GB is interested! they are desperate right now, and that is in the bengals favor. collins would help them.

[bengaled]

[quote name='Abu-Zayd' date='18 October 2009 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1255913085' post='818477']
i would take Kampman in a second. he is better than ANY pass rusher we have. he would instantly make our defense better. can you imagine? a guy that brings pressure consistently would be huge. Odom was good, but he wasn't going to beat anyone (except packer LT's) around the edge. Kampman does. 40 sacks in 3 years??? there should be no second thought! livings, mathis, roland, and smith coming back soon make this trade a sure thing if GB is interested! they are desperate right now, and that is in the bengals favor. collins would help them.
[/quote]
i think collins would help them too, but let's face the facts....both of these teams are equally desperate. i'm sure we'd have to augment such a trade with a draft pick, but if we could pull it off without giving up one of next year's higher picks, i think we should look into it.