How Much Control Do You Think Marvin Has?

[|OneHeartBeat|]

I'd really like to know what goes on in meetings with MB and the coaches over personnel. Does MB call all the shots? If I remember right from the hard knocks series, MB was telling the coaches that they had some difficult decisions to make with regards to which players are cut, which tells me, maybe the coaches have more say over personell than we think, and that maybe MB is getting too much of the blame? Or maybe MB steps in an overrules Marvin consistenly? What is it exactly that Marvin wants that stopped him from signing an extension? I know it's all guessing here but I just wondered what others thought?

[Mu Shu]

I think he has a lot of say.

I know that when the team is losing fans are going to want to blame Mike Brown, but, really, from a player personal standpoint, what has the guy done that's so bad in the last two seasons?

At the time, I think we all loved the last two free agency periods. We loved the signings of Coles and Bryant. We loved the aggressiveness of going out and getting Owens. And we were all downright giddy about the drafts. The only player move that Marvin didn't sign off on (that we all know of) was Chris Henry.

I think Mike's job ends there as GM.

I think that Hard Knocks showed us all that the coaches have the say in the final cuts. They presented the list to Mike in the final episode and acted as though that was the first time he'd seen it.

[cwing]

Marvin does have a say. However, no one is handing over to him an in depth short list.

Just ask yourself a few questions -----------

Do you really think full time NFL coaches can develop in depth scoutng analysis, extensive interviews with former coaches and players alike and have the same quality scouting reports in the same level of detail as organizations that have 10-15 persons assigned to those roles on a full time basis? How many potential college players will the Bengals coaches actually see live in a college game? Given the Bengals coaches are also their scouts shouldn't someone be seeing these guys up close well before the combine?

Good organizations scout their own players as well as everyone elses including all levels of college. Do you honestly believe the Bengals coaches and their 2-3 man scouting department can do this?

[Smizno]

I doubt he really has much at all, that was evident during Hard Knocks. No real coach would come here because they know Mike Brown runs the team from his office and that's the reason the Bengals will always be the Bengals. MB is an embarassment to his father.

[Jungle1]

I think Marvin gets a voice with player personnel. But, I think his hands are tied when it comes to spending any money (practice bubble, scouts, GM, etc.)

I believe MB wants to win, but I don't believe he gives his people all the tools they need to succeed.

[sois]

Zero control over personnel (as evident with the Henry signing).
Probly 90% control over playing time.
50% control over coaches (probly he can fire half, but some MB wants to keep no matter what, like shitty Brat).

[joshua]

I think every move has to be ok'd by brown.

[|OneHeartBeat|]

[quote name='cwing' timestamp='1290894912' post='945861']
Marvin does have a say. However, no one is handing over to him an in depth short list.

Just ask yourself a few questions -----------

Do you really think full time NFL coaches can develop in depth scoutng analysis, extensive interviews with former coaches and players alike and have the same quality scouting reports in the same level of detail as organizations that have 10-15 persons assigned to those roles on a full time basis? How many potential college players will the Bengals coaches actually see live in a college game? Given the Bengals coaches are also their scouts shouldn't someone be seeing these guys up close well before the combine?

Good organizations scout their own players as well as everyone elses including all levels of college. Do you honestly believe the Bengals coaches and their 2-3 man scouting department can do this?
[/quote]

What I got out of hard knocks was that the coaches made the final choices on who makes the team. I agree with you about the number of scouts is a big concern. Maybe these are the stipulations that Marvin wants? I think out track record has been pretty good on finding WO's and RB's but not so good with defensive players.

[kdubdub]

[quote name='Mu Shu' timestamp='1290889462' post='945850']
I think he has a lot of say.

I know that when the team is losing fans are going to want to blame Mike Brown, but, really, from a player personal standpoint, what has the guy done that's so bad in the last two seasons?

At the time, I think we all loved the last two free agency periods. We loved the signings of Coles and Bryant.
[/quote]

Who is we? Coles was a horrible signing from the jump and I was ok with Bryant but not my first choice. The failure at GM is that he has not infused enough talent at the most important spots on offense (oline) and built the offense around skill players. We are better at the skill positions then most teams but you have seen that hasn't transfer to wins.

The biggest problem though that MB has is that he is serving as GM and CEO. It seems he makes moves based on what is more fiscal than what is best for the team. Nothing will change until he gets some real football people in here to make the football decisions. The biggest example is Chad. Most teams would have either cut/traded/deactivated him years ago but he keeps him because he is a name and sells jerseys.

[|OneHeartBeat|]

but then again.........we're a couple of plays away from being at least 8-2 so I dont think it's a question of talent.

[mongo]

[quote name='OneHeartBeat' timestamp='1290956338' post='945982']
but then again.........we're a couple of plays away from being at least 8-2 so I dont think it's a question of talent.
[/quote]

I agree we have some talent here, but that few plays away from 8-2 is very generous... More like a few plays away from 4-6, an extra couple away from 6-4, and still more away from 8-2. Considering we're fewer plays away from 0-10 than 8-2, I'd not dwell too much on the missed wins.

Edit: adjust for 11 games played. I think OHB got me mixed up.

[bengaled]

[quote name='kdubdub' timestamp='1290951358' post='945968']
Who is we? Coles was a horrible signing from the jump and I was ok with Bryant but not my first choice. The failure at GM is that he has not infused enough talent at the most important spots on offense (oline) and built the offense around skill players. We are better at the skill positions then most teams but you have seen that hasn't transfer to wins.

The biggest problem though that MB has is that he is serving as GM and CEO. It seems he makes moves based on what is more fiscal than what is best for the team. Nothing will change until he gets some real football people in here to make the football decisions. The biggest example is Chad. Most teams would have either cut/traded/deactivated him years ago but he keeps him because he is a name and sells jerseys.
[/quote]

it's happened many times before, while he tries so hard to save that extra dollar. if he had just signed brandon marshall he would have been earning interest on all that extra money he wasted AND he would have made an investment in the team's future. marshall was the perfect receiver for a carson palmer type QB, too.

god, if mike would just listen to me!

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='cwing' timestamp='1290894912' post='945861']
Just ask yourself a few questions -----------

Do you really think full time NFL coaches can develop in depth scoutng analysis, extensive interviews with former coaches and players alike and have the same quality scouting reports in the same level of detail as organizations that have 10-15 persons assigned to those roles on a full time basis? How many potential college players will the Bengals coaches actually see live in a college game? Given the Bengals coaches are also their scouts shouldn't someone be seeing these guys up close well before the combine?

Good organizations scout their own players as well as everyone elses including all levels of college. Do you honestly believe the Bengals coaches and their 2-3 man scouting department can do this?
[/quote]

This... x10000000000

We always hear that the Bengals get as much information as every other team (which is the standard distribution from the NFL office)... but other teams have 8-15 person scouting departments that do full workups on college players, pro free agents, UFL guys, CFL guys, bringing in guys every Tuesday for workouts ("just in case"), etc. there is no way this team can expect us to be on a level competitive field in this scenario when we leave these tasks to our 2-3 person scout department and the rest to our coaches... they can either work on scouting players or they can build the game plan for each week. But can't do both.

[|kennethmw|]

I think that Marvin has control of in-game management, players on the roster, and the defensive coaches. I also think that Mike talks to him about players to Draft and free agents, but that Mike has final say. I don't think he has any control over the Offensive coaches, the scouting department, or the Facilities. I do believe that Marvin likes the access that he has to MB, but he would like control over the entire coaching staff and the scouting staff.

From what I've heard, on the scouting side, Marvin doesn't want a lot more scouts, but he does want a couple more. He actually likes having the coaches out there, especially when they can run the workouts. I'm almost in the "Marvin for GM" camp, but I don't think Mike wants to relinquish the hold on that part.

As an Aside, did any of you notice Katie in the new "Play 60" commercial? I wonder if she is going to start taking a little more visible position in the organization? HMMMM.

[|ArmyBengal|]

[quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1291046478' post='946243']
I think that Marvin has control of in-game management, players on the roster, and the defensive coaches. I also think that Mike talks to him about players to Draft and free agents, but that Mike has final say. I don't think he has any control over the Offensive coaches, the scouting department, or the Facilities. I do believe that Marvin likes the access that he has to MB, but he would like control over the entire coaching staff and the scouting staff.

From what I've heard, on the scouting side, Marvin doesn't want a lot more scouts, but he does want a couple more. He actually likes having the coaches out there, especially when they can run the workouts. I'm almost in the "Marvin for GM" camp, but I don't think Mike wants to relinquish the hold on that part.

As an Aside, did any of you notice Katie in the new "Play 60" commercial? I wonder if she is going to start taking a little more visible position in the organization? HMMMM.
[/quote]

I saw the Katie in the Play 60 commercial. And I'm hoping it does mean that she's not just more visible, but in charge. Mike needs to give her more control. Time to let her drive for a while. Aint working as it is.

[BFIH]

I think Marvin has had plenty of input into personnel...

We've had 23 Bengals arrests since Marvin came to town. Late night comics may have blasted us as the "Bengals", but I don't recall them going after us for player arrests before Marvin's tenure. Do any of you? A look at the criminal history of the Marvin Lewis era...

5/4/2010 Maurice Purify Cincinnati WR
Arrested on disorderly conduct charge in Newport, Ky., after alleged late night bar fight.

1/29/2010 Rey Maualuga Cincinnati LB
Arrested on DUI charge in Kentucky after hitting a parking meter and two parked cars with his 2003 Pontiac. Pleaded guilty, blood-alcohol-content of .157, suspended sentence of seven days in jail, $350 in fines, two years probation, driver's license suspended 90 days.

4/5/2009 Leon Hall Cincinnati CB
Charged with DUI after being pulled over at 3:11 a.m. Blood-alcohol level of 0.149, according to breath test. Pleaded guilty to misdemeanor reckless driving, sentenced to 64 hours community service, three days in a residential driver intervention program, $250 fine.

5/1/2008 Ahmad Brooks Cincinnati LB
Charged with misdemeanor assault, accused of punching woman in face in Kentucky.

3/31/2008 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Charged with assault and disorderly conduct after police said he punched man in the head and threw beer bottle threw car window. Released by team same week. NFL suspended him four games.
Assault charge dropped.

6/17/2007 Quincy Wilson Cincinnati RB
Charged with disorderly conduct after refusing police request to disperse after wedding in West Virginia. Dropped if he avoids trouble through Dec. 17

5/18/2007 A.J. Nicholson Cincinnati LB Arrested
Charged with misdemeanor assault. Police said his girlfriend told them he hit her in the eye. Cut by team three days later. Misdemeanor charge dropped after completing 40 hours of community service, parenting class and an anger management evaluation.

3/21/2007 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Cited for three traffic charges, including driving with suspended license, vehicle impounded.

1/22/2007 Johnathan Joseph Cincinnati CB
Arrested and charged with possession of marijuana in northern Kentucky after traffic stop. Diversionary program

12/9/2006 Deltha O'Neal Cincinnati CB
Arrested and was charged with driving while intoxicated after being stopped at a traffic checkpoint in Amelia, Ohio. Benched one game, pleaded to reckless operation of vehicle

12/3/2006 Reggie McNeal Cincinnati WR
Arrested in Houston and charged with resisting arrest after being refused entrance to a nightclub. Fined and placed on probation.

9/25/2006 Odell Thurman Cincinnati LB
Arrested and charged with drunken driving. NFL suspended rest of the season and later all of 2007 season. Pleaded no contest, license suspended, 90-day-sentence suspended, six days in rehab.

8/5/2006 Eric Steinbach Cincinnati OG
Arrested and charged with boating under the influence on the Ohio River. Diversion program, fine

7/22/2006 Matthias Askew Cincinnati DT
Arrested and charged with obstruction of police business, resisting arrest and two parking violations. Acquitted. He sued the city of Cincinnati, accusing police of unlawful arrest and excessive force. The city agreed to pay him $500,000.

6/21/2006 Frostee Rucker Cincinnati DE
Charged with two counts of spousal battery and vandalism after an alleged fight between Rucker and his girlfriend. Pleaded to one count of false imprisonment and one count of vandalism. 36 months of summary probation, one year of domestic violence counseling, 750 hours of community labor.

6/14/2006 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Henry turns himself in and is arrested for providing alcohol to three teenage girls in a Covington, Ky., motel room on April 29. Sentenced to two days in jail, 88-day suspended sentence. Suspended eight games in 2007 for multiple arrests.

6/3/2006 A.J. Nicholson Cincinnati LB
Charged with burglarizing the apartment of a former Florida State teammate the weekend of May 20-21. Pleaded no contest, two years probation, 60 days at work program

6/3/2006 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Arrested and charged with speeding and operating a vehicle under the influence. Henry was stopped on Interstate 275 in Cincinnati at 1:18 a.m., after being clocked driving 82 mph in a 65 mph zone. Pleaded guilty to lesser charge of reckless operation of car, 30-day suspended jail sentence

1/28/2006 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Arrested in Florida on concealed weapons charges for allegedly possessed a firearm outside an Orlando nightclub. NFL suspended two games, 100 hours community service, two years probation

12/15/2005 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Arrested in Covington, Ky., and charged with possession of marijuana after traffic stop. Pleaded guilty, drug rehab

10/5/2004 Justin Smith Cincinnati DE
Arrested and charged with drunken driving after he failed a breath test, in Dayton, Ohio Pleaded guilty, weekend intervention, license suspended six months, $300 fine

2/2/2004 Levi Jones Cincinnati OT
Jones and his cousin Fred Robinson were arrested hours after the Super Bowl after a fight broke out at a Houston nightclub. Dropped

12/2/2003 James Lynch Cincinnati FB
Arrested at 2:40 a.m., in Kentucky for five offenses, including resisting arrest, public intoxication. Police say he urinated in street. Four officers needed to cuff and shackle him. Pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct, fleeing, 10 days in jail served, two years probation, $525 in fines

[cwing]

[quote name='BFIH' timestamp='1291073488' post='946323']
I think Marvin has had plenty of input into personnel...

We've had 23 Bengals arrests since Marvin came to town. Late night comics may have blasted us as the "Bengals", but I don't recall them going after us for player arrests before Marvin's tenure. Do any of you? A look at the criminal history of the Marvin Lewis era...

5/4/2010 Maurice Purify Cincinnati WR
Arrested on disorderly conduct charge in Newport, Ky., after alleged late night bar fight.

1/29/2010 Rey Maualuga Cincinnati LB
Arrested on DUI charge in Kentucky after hitting a parking meter and two parked cars with his 2003 Pontiac. Pleaded guilty, blood-alcohol-content of .157, suspended sentence of seven days in jail, $350 in fines, two years probation, driver's license suspended 90 days.

4/5/2009 Leon Hall Cincinnati CB
Charged with DUI after being pulled over at 3:11 a.m. Blood-alcohol level of 0.149, according to breath test. Pleaded guilty to misdemeanor reckless driving, sentenced to 64 hours community service, three days in a residential driver intervention program, $250 fine.

5/1/2008 Ahmad Brooks Cincinnati LB
Charged with misdemeanor assault, accused of punching woman in face in Kentucky.

3/31/2008 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Charged with assault and disorderly conduct after police said he punched man in the head and threw beer bottle threw car window. Released by team same week. NFL suspended him four games.
Assault charge dropped.

6/17/2007 Quincy Wilson Cincinnati RB
Charged with disorderly conduct after refusing police request to disperse after wedding in West Virginia. Dropped if he avoids trouble through Dec. 17

5/18/2007 A.J. Nicholson Cincinnati LB Arrested
Charged with misdemeanor assault. Police said his girlfriend told them he hit her in the eye. Cut by team three days later. Misdemeanor charge dropped after completing 40 hours of community service, parenting class and an anger management evaluation.

3/21/2007 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Cited for three traffic charges, including driving with suspended license, vehicle impounded.

1/22/2007 Johnathan Joseph Cincinnati CB
Arrested and charged with possession of marijuana in northern Kentucky after traffic stop. Diversionary program

12/9/2006 Deltha O'Neal Cincinnati CB
Arrested and was charged with driving while intoxicated after being stopped at a traffic checkpoint in Amelia, Ohio. Benched one game, pleaded to reckless operation of vehicle

12/3/2006 Reggie McNeal Cincinnati WR
Arrested in Houston and charged with resisting arrest after being refused entrance to a nightclub. Fined and placed on probation.

9/25/2006 Odell Thurman Cincinnati LB
Arrested and charged with drunken driving. NFL suspended rest of the season and later all of 2007 season. Pleaded no contest, license suspended, 90-day-sentence suspended, six days in rehab.

8/5/2006 Eric Steinbach Cincinnati OG
Arrested and charged with boating under the influence on the Ohio River. Diversion program, fine

7/22/2006 Matthias Askew Cincinnati DT
Arrested and charged with obstruction of police business, resisting arrest and two parking violations. Acquitted. He sued the city of Cincinnati, accusing police of unlawful arrest and excessive force. The city agreed to pay him $500,000.

6/21/2006 Frostee Rucker Cincinnati DE
Charged with two counts of spousal battery and vandalism after an alleged fight between Rucker and his girlfriend. Pleaded to one count of false imprisonment and one count of vandalism. 36 months of summary probation, one year of domestic violence counseling, 750 hours of community labor.

6/14/2006 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Henry turns himself in and is arrested for providing alcohol to three teenage girls in a Covington, Ky., motel room on April 29. Sentenced to two days in jail, 88-day suspended sentence. Suspended eight games in 2007 for multiple arrests.

6/3/2006 A.J. Nicholson Cincinnati LB
Charged with burglarizing the apartment of a former Florida State teammate the weekend of May 20-21. Pleaded no contest, two years probation, 60 days at work program

6/3/2006 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Arrested and charged with speeding and operating a vehicle under the influence. Henry was stopped on Interstate 275 in Cincinnati at 1:18 a.m., after being clocked driving 82 mph in a 65 mph zone. Pleaded guilty to lesser charge of reckless operation of car, 30-day suspended jail sentence

1/28/2006 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Arrested in Florida on concealed weapons charges for allegedly possessed a firearm outside an Orlando nightclub. NFL suspended two games, 100 hours community service, two years probation

12/15/2005 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Arrested in Covington, Ky., and charged with possession of marijuana after traffic stop. Pleaded guilty, drug rehab

10/5/2004 Justin Smith Cincinnati DE
Arrested and charged with drunken driving after he failed a breath test, in Dayton, Ohio Pleaded guilty, weekend intervention, license suspended six months, $300 fine

2/2/2004 Levi Jones Cincinnati OT
Jones and his cousin Fred Robinson were arrested hours after the Super Bowl after a fight broke out at a Houston nightclub. Dropped

12/2/2003 James Lynch Cincinnati FB
Arrested at 2:40 a.m., in Kentucky for five offenses, including resisting arrest, public intoxication. Police say he urinated in street. Four officers needed to cuff and shackle him. Pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct, fleeing, 10 days in jail served, two years probation, $525 in fines
[/quote]


Good research but way off base.

Look around the NFL and other teams such as SD have had as many or more arrested over the same timeframe. Many of those you listed were pre-Marvin draft picks. Marvin wanted Chris Henry gone --- Mike wanted to keep him. Mathis proved his case was false. Q Wilson was also a BS case as was the A Brooks case.

I guess you do not recall guys like T Mack, Stanley Wilson, Reggie Rembrandt.

Sorry this is an NFL issue not just a Bengal issue.

[|OneHeartBeat|]

[quote name='BFIH' timestamp='1291073488' post='946323']
I think Marvin has had plenty of input into personnel...

We've had 23 Bengals arrests since Marvin came to town. Late night comics may have blasted us as the "Bengals", but I don't recall them going after us for player arrests before Marvin's tenure. Do any of you? A look at the criminal history of the Marvin Lewis era...

5/4/2010 Maurice Purify Cincinnati WR
Arrested on disorderly conduct charge in Newport, Ky., after alleged late night bar fight.

1/29/2010 Rey Maualuga Cincinnati LB
Arrested on DUI charge in Kentucky after hitting a parking meter and two parked cars with his 2003 Pontiac. Pleaded guilty, blood-alcohol-content of .157, suspended sentence of seven days in jail, $350 in fines, two years probation, driver's license suspended 90 days.

4/5/2009 Leon Hall Cincinnati CB
Charged with DUI after being pulled over at 3:11 a.m. Blood-alcohol level of 0.149, according to breath test. Pleaded guilty to misdemeanor reckless driving, sentenced to 64 hours community service, three days in a residential driver intervention program, $250 fine.

5/1/2008 Ahmad Brooks Cincinnati LB
Charged with misdemeanor assault, accused of punching woman in face in Kentucky.

3/31/2008 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Charged with assault and disorderly conduct after police said he punched man in the head and threw beer bottle threw car window. Released by team same week. NFL suspended him four games.
Assault charge dropped.

6/17/2007 Quincy Wilson Cincinnati RB
Charged with disorderly conduct after refusing police request to disperse after wedding in West Virginia. Dropped if he avoids trouble through Dec. 17

5/18/2007 A.J. Nicholson Cincinnati LB Arrested
Charged with misdemeanor assault. Police said his girlfriend told them he hit her in the eye. Cut by team three days later. Misdemeanor charge dropped after completing 40 hours of community service, parenting class and an anger management evaluation.

3/21/2007 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Cited for three traffic charges, including driving with suspended license, vehicle impounded.

1/22/2007 Johnathan Joseph Cincinnati CB
Arrested and charged with possession of marijuana in northern Kentucky after traffic stop. Diversionary program

12/9/2006 Deltha O'Neal Cincinnati CB
Arrested and was charged with driving while intoxicated after being stopped at a traffic checkpoint in Amelia, Ohio. Benched one game, pleaded to reckless operation of vehicle

12/3/2006 Reggie McNeal Cincinnati WR
Arrested in Houston and charged with resisting arrest after being refused entrance to a nightclub. Fined and placed on probation.

9/25/2006 Odell Thurman Cincinnati LB
Arrested and charged with drunken driving. NFL suspended rest of the season and later all of 2007 season. Pleaded no contest, license suspended, 90-day-sentence suspended, six days in rehab.

8/5/2006 Eric Steinbach Cincinnati OG
Arrested and charged with boating under the influence on the Ohio River. Diversion program, fine

7/22/2006 Matthias Askew Cincinnati DT
Arrested and charged with obstruction of police business, resisting arrest and two parking violations. Acquitted. He sued the city of Cincinnati, accusing police of unlawful arrest and excessive force. The city agreed to pay him $500,000.

6/21/2006 Frostee Rucker Cincinnati DE
Charged with two counts of spousal battery and vandalism after an alleged fight between Rucker and his girlfriend. Pleaded to one count of false imprisonment and one count of vandalism. 36 months of summary probation, one year of domestic violence counseling, 750 hours of community labor.

6/14/2006 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Henry turns himself in and is arrested for providing alcohol to three teenage girls in a Covington, Ky., motel room on April 29. Sentenced to two days in jail, 88-day suspended sentence. Suspended eight games in 2007 for multiple arrests.

6/3/2006 A.J. Nicholson Cincinnati LB
Charged with burglarizing the apartment of a former Florida State teammate the weekend of May 20-21. Pleaded no contest, two years probation, 60 days at work program

6/3/2006 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Arrested and charged with speeding and operating a vehicle under the influence. Henry was stopped on Interstate 275 in Cincinnati at 1:18 a.m., after being clocked driving 82 mph in a 65 mph zone. Pleaded guilty to lesser charge of reckless operation of car, 30-day suspended jail sentence

1/28/2006 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Arrested in Florida on concealed weapons charges for allegedly possessed a firearm outside an Orlando nightclub. NFL suspended two games, 100 hours community service, two years probation

12/15/2005 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR
Arrested in Covington, Ky., and charged with possession of marijuana after traffic stop. Pleaded guilty, drug rehab

10/5/2004 Justin Smith Cincinnati DE
Arrested and charged with drunken driving after he failed a breath test, in Dayton, Ohio Pleaded guilty, weekend intervention, license suspended six months, $300 fine

2/2/2004 Levi Jones Cincinnati OT
Jones and his cousin Fred Robinson were arrested hours after the Super Bowl after a fight broke out at a Houston nightclub. Dropped

12/2/2003 James Lynch Cincinnati FB
Arrested at 2:40 a.m., in Kentucky for five offenses, including resisting arrest, public intoxication. Police say he urinated in street. Four officers needed to cuff and shackle him. Pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct, fleeing, 10 days in jail served, two years probation, $525 in fines
[/quote]

You're not seriously blaming this on Marvin are you?

[BFIH]

[quote name='cwing' timestamp='1291083679' post='946338']
Good research but way off base.

Look around the NFL and other teams such as SD have had as many or more arrested over the same timeframe. Many of those you listed were pre-Marvin draft picks. Marvin wanted Chris Henry gone --- Mike wanted to keep him. Mathis proved his case was false. Q Wilson was also a BS case as was the A Brooks case.

I guess you do not recall guys like T Mack, Stanley Wilson, Reggie Rembrandt.

Sorry this is an NFL issue not just a Bengal issue.
[/quote]

Criminality IS an NFL issue, but here's the list for the San Diego Chargers -- one of the scummiest teams in the NFL arrest database for the identical time period. The Chargers only have 19 arrests during the Marvin era vs. the Bengals 23 during the same time period - two of them on [b]former Bengal[/b] Steve Foley.

The Bengals lead the league in most arrests since 2000 and are tied for most arrests since 2005. Lately we've fallen off to 5th most arrests in the league since 2007, but that isn't exactly sterling.

Team Total Since ‘05 Since ‘07
Cincinnati 31 20 9
Minnesota 30 17 7
Jacksonville 25 20 15
Denver 25 17 12
Kansas City 25 13 5
Miami 24 16 12
San Diego 22 16 7
Tennessee 22 19 6
Cleveland 20 11 8
Tampa Bay 18 12 10
Chicago 18 11 5
Indianapolis 17 12 7
New Orleans 17 10 7
Pittsburgh 16 13 9
Carolina 15 6 6
Baltimore 15 6 4
Atlanta 13 11 10
Buffalo 13 8 7
Seattle 13 10 6
Oakland 12 4 4
Green Bay 12 6 3
NY Giants 11 8 7
Washington 11 6 4
New England 11 5 4
Houston 9 6 5
Dallas 9 4 2
Arizona 9 3 2
San Francisco 8 3 2
Detroit 7 5 2
Philadelphia 7 4 2
NY Jets 7 3 2
St. Louis 6 5 4

Source: San Diego Union-Tribune

Chargers arrests -- some of their charges were dropped as well... Doesn't mean they weren't guilty - just that they make enough scratch for bribes, good lawyers, etc.

5/24/2010 Kevin Ellison Chargers S_ Arrested in Redondo Beach on suspicion of possessing a controlled substance: 100 pills of Vicodin. Cut from team a month later.
1/17/2010 Vincent Jackson Chargers WR Pulled over for "loud music," handcuffed, cited for driving with a suspended license, expired registration. Pleaded guilty to driving with a suspended license, fined less than $1,000, community service.
9/6/2009 Shawne Merriman Chargers LB His reality TV star friend, Tila Tequila, signed a citizen's arrest warrant, charging him with battery and false imprisonment. She said he choked her and was treated for injuries at nearby hospital. Dropped.
4/25/2009 Shaun Phillips Chargers LB Cited for misdemeanor battery after a security guard at a downtown San Diego bar said Phillips hit him in the face. Dropped for lack of evidence.
2/1/2009 Jamal Williams Chargers DT Arrested on suspicion of DUI after being pulled over for speeding in Bentley. Reduced to reckless driving charge after blood-alcohol content was 0.07.
1/6/2009 Vincent Jackson Chargers WR Arrested on suspicion of DUI around 2:30 a.m. in 2008 GMC Sierra. Four days in work-release program, five years probation, $2,408 fine, 15 days community service.
7/3/2007 Anthony Waters Chargers LB Charged with assault stemming from traffic confrontation. Waters allegedly struck a man who threw a rock at his windshield.
1/6/2007 Ryan Krause Chargers TE Arrested in Pacific Beach on suspicion of driving under the influence. Pleaded guilty to one count, $1,756 fine, 32 hours of volunteer work
12/18/2006 Terrence Kiel Chargers S_ Cited by police for public urination outside a downtown club. Dropped
11/27/2006 Cletis Gordon Chargers CB Arrested near the corner at 6th and J downtown on suspicion of drunken driving. Dropped
10/9/2006 Markus Curry Chargers CB Arrested on suspicion of spousal abuse for allegedly injuring the mother of his child. Dropped. He was released by team shortly after his arrest.
9/26/2006 Terrence Kiel Chargers S_ Arrested at the Chargers practice field by Drug Enforcement Administration agents for allegedly possessing and shipping large quantities of prescription cough syrup, a controlled substance. Pleaded guilty to misdemeanor charge as part of plea deal, cut by team, counseling for gambling, volunteer work.
9/3/2006 Steve Foley Chargers LB Charged with two counts of driving under the influence after he was stopped and shot three times by an off-duty Coronado police officer outside Foley's home in Poway. Pleaded guilty, five years informal probation, $1,756 fine
6/12/2006 Vincent Jackson Chargers WR Arrested on suspicion of DUI, blood-alcohol content of .13 percent. Pleaded guilty to misdemeanor drunken driving, five years probation, $1,750 fine.
4/21/2006 Steve Foley Chargers LB Arrested on suspicion of resisting arrest, battery on a police officer and being drunk in public after an altercation on a University City street at approximately 1:30 a.m. Dropped
4/14/2006 Shaun Phillips Chargers LB Arrested on suspicion of obstructing or resisting an officer in the performance of his duty after an altercation downtown. Dropped
10/31/2005 Derreck Robinson Chargers DE Arrested and booked on suspicion of drunken driving after he crashed his car into the center divider on Interstate 8 near 70th Street. conviction, $1,850 fine, 180 days suspended sentence, five years probation, first-time conviction program
9/14/2003 Matt Wilhelm Chargers LB Arrested and charged with driving under the influence. Conviction, $1,700 fine, 90 days restricted license, 180 days suspended sentence, five years probation.
8/21/2003 Leonardo Carson Chargers DT Charged with kidnapping and burglary Aug. 21 in Mobile, Ala., while home to attend his grandfather's funeral. Pleaded guilty, NFL suspended one game, 30 days in jail

[BFIH]

[quote name='cwing' timestamp='1291083679' post='946338']
Good research but way off base.

Look around the NFL and other teams such as SD have had as many or more arrested over the same timeframe. Many of those you listed were pre-Marvin draft picks. Marvin wanted Chris Henry gone --- Mike wanted to keep him. Mathis proved his case was false. Q Wilson was also a BS case as was the A Brooks case.

I guess you do not recall guys like T Mack, Stanley Wilson, Reggie Rembrandt.

Sorry this is an NFL issue not just a Bengal issue.
[/quote]

Criminality IS an NFL issue, but here's the list for the San Diego Chargers -- one of the scummiest teams in the NFL arrest database for the identical time period. The Chargers only have 19 arrests during the Marvin era vs. the Bengals 23 during the same time period - two of them on [b]former Bengal[/b] Steve Foley.

The Bengals lead the league in most arrests since 2000 and are tied for most arrests since 2005. Lately we've fallen off to 5th most arrests in the league since 2007, but that isn't exactly sterling.

Team Total Since ‘05 Since ‘07
Cincinnati 31 20 9
Minnesota 30 17 7
Jacksonville 25 20 15
Denver 25 17 12
Kansas City 25 13 5
Miami 24 16 12
San Diego 22 16 7
Tennessee 22 19 6
Cleveland 20 11 8
Tampa Bay 18 12 10
Chicago 18 11 5
Indianapolis 17 12 7
New Orleans 17 10 7
Pittsburgh 16 13 9
Carolina 15 6 6
Baltimore 15 6 4
Atlanta 13 11 10
Buffalo 13 8 7
Seattle 13 10 6
Oakland 12 4 4
Green Bay 12 6 3
NY Giants 11 8 7
Washington 11 6 4
New England 11 5 4
Houston 9 6 5
Dallas 9 4 2
Arizona 9 3 2
San Francisco 8 3 2
Detroit 7 5 2
Philadelphia 7 4 2
NY Jets 7 3 2
St. Louis 6 5 4

Source: San Diego Union-Tribune

Chargers arrests -- some of their charges were dropped as well... Doesn't mean they weren't guilty - just that they make enough scratch for bribes, good lawyers, etc.

5/24/2010 Kevin Ellison Chargers S_ Arrested in Redondo Beach on suspicion of possessing a controlled substance: 100 pills of Vicodin. Cut from team a month later.
1/17/2010 Vincent Jackson Chargers WR Pulled over for "loud music," handcuffed, cited for driving with a suspended license, expired registration. Pleaded guilty to driving with a suspended license, fined less than $1,000, community service.
9/6/2009 Shawne Merriman Chargers LB His reality TV star friend, Tila Tequila, signed a citizen's arrest warrant, charging him with battery and false imprisonment. She said he choked her and was treated for injuries at nearby hospital. Dropped.
4/25/2009 Shaun Phillips Chargers LB Cited for misdemeanor battery after a security guard at a downtown San Diego bar said Phillips hit him in the face. Dropped for lack of evidence.
2/1/2009 Jamal Williams Chargers DT Arrested on suspicion of DUI after being pulled over for speeding in Bentley. Reduced to reckless driving charge after blood-alcohol content was 0.07.
1/6/2009 Vincent Jackson Chargers WR Arrested on suspicion of DUI around 2:30 a.m. in 2008 GMC Sierra. Four days in work-release program, five years probation, $2,408 fine, 15 days community service.
7/3/2007 Anthony Waters Chargers LB Charged with assault stemming from traffic confrontation. Waters allegedly struck a man who threw a rock at his windshield.
1/6/2007 Ryan Krause Chargers TE Arrested in Pacific Beach on suspicion of driving under the influence. Pleaded guilty to one count, $1,756 fine, 32 hours of volunteer work
12/18/2006 Terrence Kiel Chargers S_ Cited by police for public urination outside a downtown club. Dropped
11/27/2006 Cletis Gordon Chargers CB Arrested near the corner at 6th and J downtown on suspicion of drunken driving. Dropped
10/9/2006 Markus Curry Chargers CB Arrested on suspicion of spousal abuse for allegedly injuring the mother of his child. Dropped. He was released by team shortly after his arrest.
9/26/2006 Terrence Kiel Chargers S_ Arrested at the Chargers practice field by Drug Enforcement Administration agents for allegedly possessing and shipping large quantities of prescription cough syrup, a controlled substance. Pleaded guilty to misdemeanor charge as part of plea deal, cut by team, counseling for gambling, volunteer work.
9/3/2006 Steve Foley Chargers LB Charged with two counts of driving under the influence after he was stopped and shot three times by an off-duty Coronado police officer outside Foley's home in Poway. Pleaded guilty, five years informal probation, $1,756 fine
6/12/2006 Vincent Jackson Chargers WR Arrested on suspicion of DUI, blood-alcohol content of .13 percent. Pleaded guilty to misdemeanor drunken driving, five years probation, $1,750 fine.
4/21/2006 Steve Foley Chargers LB Arrested on suspicion of resisting arrest, battery on a police officer and being drunk in public after an altercation on a University City street at approximately 1:30 a.m. Dropped
4/14/2006 Shaun Phillips Chargers LB Arrested on suspicion of obstructing or resisting an officer in the performance of his duty after an altercation downtown. Dropped
10/31/2005 Derreck Robinson Chargers DE Arrested and booked on suspicion of drunken driving after he crashed his car into the center divider on Interstate 8 near 70th Street. conviction, $1,850 fine, 180 days suspended sentence, five years probation, first-time conviction program
9/14/2003 Matt Wilhelm Chargers LB Arrested and charged with driving under the influence. Conviction, $1,700 fine, 90 days restricted license, 180 days suspended sentence, five years probation.
8/21/2003 Leonardo Carson Chargers DT Charged with kidnapping and burglary Aug. 21 in Mobile, Ala., while home to attend his grandfather's funeral. Pleaded guilty, NFL suspended one game, 30 days in jail

[BFIH]

[quote name='OneHeartBeat' timestamp='1291085242' post='946341']
You're not seriously blaming this on Marvin are you?
[/quote]

How many times do you recall Mike Brown going out and signing a cast off player with legal or character problems comparable to PacMan, Tank Johnson, TO, etc. before Marvin Lewis came to town? I'll grant you we had some instances such as Dillon and Pickens where Brown took a flyer on in the draft because of their talent but I don't recall taking them after they went out and proved they weren't going to appreciate their opportunity in the NFL.

In Marvin's defense, some of the cast-offs have been doing pretty well at "Father Marvin's Home for Wayward Youth", but it seems like a natural consequence that the more you value raw potential over character the more you are going to have tragedies such as Odell Thurman and Chris Henry and perhaps under achievers such as Andre Smith.