Would you take Stephen Hill at #21?

[EnglishBengal]

Mayock's video link: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-path-to-the-draft/09000d5d8276ba2e/The-next-Calvin-Johnson

[Bengals1181]

if they land an established #2 in free agency I don't think its out of the realm of possibilities. I don't think they should have him come in and start though. FWIW, Hue Jackson went to his pro day.

[NASTYNATI]

I wouldnt spend a 1 or a 2 on him. I think there are other guys (Tommy Streeter) with comparable size and speed that can be had in the later rounds. As you will see, their measurables are very similar.

[b]Tommy Streeter: 6'-5" , 219 lbs , 34 3/4" arm length, 9 1/2" hands, 4.40 40 yd dash, 17 reps bench, 33" vert, 125" broad, 7.08 sec 3 cone[/b]
[b]Strengths[/b]:

Streeter has premier tools to immediately stretch the field for an NFL offense. Has an elongated gate and is very comfortable sticking his foot in the ground to go up and get the football. Has really come on strong of late in his ability to separate from defenders in short/intermediate routes.

[b]Weaknesses:[/b]
Streeter needs to develop the technical parts of his game to be able to demand consistent playing time on the outside. He false steps often at the snap and has a below-average burst off the line, and although he uses his length well to avoid press, could have issues once teams start to get in his face at the line of scrimmage. Runs sloppy routes and isn't definitive in his movements.


[b]Steven Hill: 6'-4", 215 lbs, 33 3/8" arm length, 9 3/8" hands, 4.36 40 yd dash, 14 reps bench, 39.5" vert, 133" broad, 6.88 sec 3 cone[/b]
[b]Strengths[/b]

Hill will be a legitimate deep threat at the next level -- by recording nearly 30 yards per catch as a senior, he showed he was capable of going deep and scoring on every play. He consistently runs past corners on deep routes and is impressive at the point of the catch, as he is able to lay out for the ball or rise above his defender. Hill is a very good blocker who uses his length well and surprisingly doesn't get off-balance often, something that is usually evident of players with his frame. Though it's risky to throw early comparisons of Hall-of-Fame-caliber players on prospects that don't even garner first-round consideration, Hill could remind some of Randy Moss when it comes to running a pure, one-on-one deep route.

[b]Weaknesses:[/b]
Hill's value is based purely off his ability as a deep threat. He has average quickness and moves off the line of scrimmage to avoid a jam. He ran a very basic route tree at Georgia Tech that didn't allow him to showcase many skills. Outside of catching jump balls,[u][b] he struggles to read coverages and understand how to find holes in a zone. Hill looks uncomfortable with the ball in his hands and resembles a lengthy track star on the field instead of a football player. He dropped as many big balls as he made big plays; his YPC stat defines him perfectly as a player who is capable of making flash plays but isn't reliable.[/b][/u]

the underlined statements above worry me... Jerome Simpson 2.0?

[Jason]

Depends on who else is there, and who we signed in FA and took at 17.

But under the right circumstances, I would be ok with Hill at 21.

[coup000]

We get it, you like guys from the U.

[The PatternMaster]

I live in Atlanta, my wife went to GTech so I've been to a few of their games over the years and Hill isn't a first round pick. Sure he's fast, but he's no where close to being a complete wr. He's played in the triple option for the past 3 years and hasn't gotten alot of experience running the type of routes he will need to run in the NFL. He's extremely raw and will take years of development before he's ready. Right now he can run a go route, that's about it. He would be no better than Brandon Tate, I wouldn't consider him until the third round. Taking him in the first would be a huge reach.

[akiliMVP]

Pass. The Al Davis method of drafting workout warriors is proven to not work. If we do take a WR in 1 gimme Floyd or Wright. WR2 is a need but we need a vet opposite AJ, not a super raw rookie.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1331214231' post='1103376']
I live in Atlanta, my wife went to GTech so I've been to a few of their games over the years and Hill isn't a first round pick. Sure he's fast, but he's no where close to being a complete wr. He's played in the triple option for the past 3 years and hasn't gotten alot of experience running the type of routes he will need to run in the NFL. He's extremely raw and will take years of development before he's ready. Right now he can run a go route, that's about it. He would be no better than Brandon Tate, I wouldn't consider him until the third round. Taking him in the first would be a huge reach.
[/quote]


I think there's a difference between not running specific routes in games, and not being able to run them at all. That's why the combine and pro days are more important for him than your typical draft prospect. By all indications, it seems he's proven that he can run the route tree.

[Squirrlnutz]

[quote name='akiliMVP' timestamp='1331214262' post='1103377']
Pass. The Al Davis method of drafting workout warriors is proven to not work. If we do take a WR in 1 gimme Floyd or Wright. WR2 is a need [b]but we need a vet opposite AJ, not a super raw rookie.[/b]
[/quote]


Great point. There will be a lot of coverage rolled towards AJ next year. A savvy vet will be able to take advantage of that more consistently and effectively than a rookie, let alone a raw rookie.

[SocalBengalEd]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1331214357' post='1103379']



I think there's a difference between not running specific routes in games, and not being able to run them at all. That's why the combine and pro days are more important for him than your typical draft prospect. By all indications, it seems he's proven that he can run the route tree.
[/quote]



Yep sounds like he's got talent and proved at the combine knows how to run routes and Mayock likes him too.

[Phatcat]

I'm not going to throw away my Bengal fan card if they do draft him in the 1st round , but I hope they address the #2 WR in Free Agency and focus on other positions with the first 2 picks.

[The PatternMaster]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1331214357' post='1103379']


I think there's a difference between not running specific routes in games, and not being able to run them at all. That's why the combine and pro days are more important for him than your typical draft prospect. By all indications, it seems he's proven that he can run the route tree.
[/quote]

There also a difference between running around in shorts and running routes in a game situation, Hill hasn't proven he can do it in a game situation. His college career didn't prepare him to be an NFL wr, GT wr's run very basic routes and only get 10-15 pass attempts a game because they run a high school offenes, the triple option.

Hill is workout warrior, a guy who had a great combine and is climbing in the draft. His on the field production doesn't warrant him to be a first round pick, imo. He started for two years and never caught more than 30 passes in a season. He's a tremendous athlete but very raw when it comes to reading defenses and running precise routes as he didn't do it college. At Tech he would run alot of go routes as the opposing defenses were close to the line of scrimmage trying to stop the run, Hill would use his speed to run past defenders, that's how he avg. 28 ypc, however he won't be in the ACC anymore and you don't draft a one trick pony in the first round.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1331216120' post='1103391']

There also a difference between running around in shorts and running routes in a game situation, Hill hasn't proven he can do it in a game situation. His college career didn't prepare him to be an NFL wr, GT wr's run very basic routes and only get 10-15 pass attempts a game because they run a high school offenes, the triple option.

Hill is workout warrior, a guy who had a great combine and is climbing in the draft. His on the field production doesn't warrant him to be a first round pick, imo. He started for two years and never caught more than 30 passes in a season. He's a tremendous athlete but very raw when it comes to reading defenses and running precise routes as he didn't do it college. At Tech he would run alot of go routes as the opposing defenses were close to the line of scrimmage trying to stop the run, Hill would use his speed to run past defenders, that's how he avg. 28 ypc, however he won't be in the ACC anymore and [b]you don't draft a one trick pony in the first round.[/b]
[/quote]


And its still a large assumption on your part that he is.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1331216120' post='1103391']

There also a difference between running around in shorts and running routes in a game situation, Hill hasn't proven he can do it in a game situation. His college career didn't prepare him to be an NFL wr, GT wr's run very basic routes and only get 10-15 pass attempts a game because they run a high school offenes, the triple option.

Hill is workout warrior, a guy who had a great combine and is climbing in the draft. His on the field production doesn't warrant him to be a first round pick, imo. He started for two years and never caught more than 30 passes in a season. He's a tremendous athlete but very raw when it comes to reading defenses and running precise routes as he didn't do it college. At Tech he would run alot of go routes as the opposing defenses were close to the line of scrimmage trying to stop the run, Hill would use his speed to run past defenders, that's how he avg. 28 ypc, however he won't be in the ACC anymore and you don't draft a one trick pony in the first round.
[/quote]



Demaryius Thomas

[The PatternMaster]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1331216385' post='1103394']



Demaryius Thomas
[/quote]

Exactly, they are basically the same guy. Big time athletes who are inexperienced at running precise routes and reading defenses. Not saying he can't develop into a good player but he's not ready out of the box like AJ Green was, he's more like Jerome Simpson.

[SocalBengalEd]

This guy is real similar to Randy Moss in size and speed and should open things up. He had almost 900 yards receiving in a high school offense. Moss did ok being a one trick pony.

[Jason]

One thing you can bet on. Playing in that offense, Hill can block.

[The PatternMaster]

[quote name='SocalBengalEd' timestamp='1331216955' post='1103397']
This guy is real similar to Randy Moss in size and speed and should open things up. He had almost 900 yards receiving in a high school offense. Moss did ok being a one trick pony.
[/quote]

Size yes, speed no. Moss ran a 4.25/40, Hill ran a 4.36/40..that's a big difference. Moss had elite speed, Hill is fast but not elite.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1331218179' post='1103405']

Size yes, speed no. Moss ran a 4.25/40, Hill ran a 4.36/40..that's a big difference. Moss had elite speed, Hill is fast but not elite.
[/quote]


in what fantasy world is 4.36 speed not elite?

[gatorclaws]

I say no, WR isn't a big enough need to reach for one at #21.

If one of the true top WR's falls to us I'd be fine with taking one of them but to me Hill is getting overhyped. If they want him, they should either trade down from 21 or trade up in round 2.

[|kennethmw|]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1331218242' post='1103406']


in what fantasy world is 4.36 speed not elite?[/quote]

I was thinking the exact same thing!

[The PatternMaster]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1331216383' post='1103393']


And its still a large assumption on your part that he is.
[/quote]

How is it an assumption, look at his college tape. I saw him play many times throughout his career and he didn't run that many routes. He wasn't asked to run a variety of routes based on what type of coverage the defense was playing, the most passes he caught for a season was 28. It's not an assumption when the game tape and stats tell you the same thing.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1331219933' post='1103413']

How is it an assumption, look at his college tape. I saw him play many times throughout his career and he didn't run that many routes. He wasn't asked to run a variety of routes based on what type of coverage the defense was playing, the most passes he caught for a season was 28. It's not an assumption when the game tape and stats tell you the same thing.
[/quote]


yes, it is an assumption. You're ASSUMING he can't do something because you've personally never seen him do it.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1331216848' post='1103396']

Exactly, they are basically the same guy. Big time athletes who are inexperienced at running precise routes and reading defenses. Not saying he can't develop into a good player but he's not ready out of the box like AJ Green was, he's more like Jerome Simpson.
[/quote]



I think you misunderstood my point.

[size=4][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Demaryius Thomas was a 1st round pick (#22 overall)[/font][/color][/size]

[The PatternMaster]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1331218242' post='1103406']


in what fantasy world is 4.36 speed not elite?
[/quote]

Is it elite when you take the top 40 times from the past 7 years at the combine and Hill doesn't even crack the top 30. Hell this year alone there were 9 guys who ran 4.3, it's not elite when others can duplicate it. When it comes to 40 times at the combine running a 4.2 is elite speed, 4.3 is great but not elite.