|Elflocko| Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 [quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1340589747' post='1136587'] How much of Germany's illustriousness is a result of our military protectionism? Do they need to worry about as much military expenditure with regards to their economy overall when they know we are essentially "waiting in the wings"? [/quote] Salient point, and I agree that some of these countries need to start pulling their weight from the perspective of global security. However, without our military "hammer" being foisted about around the globe it's kind of hard for the powers that be to project their vision of what's right upon unsuspecting folks who need liberated, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 [quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1340596297' post='1136596'] Salient point, and I agree that some of these countries need to start pulling their weight from the perspective of global security. However, without our military "hammer" being foisted about around the globe it's kind of hard for the powers that be to project their vision of what's right upon unsuspecting folks who need liberated, no? [/quote] Well yeah, but Germany isn't going to be amongst those that "need liberated". Its an interesting case study, really. Germany got defeated, then stood down, then defied that via uber nationalism, then got defeated again. Became pro-west and then absorbed the huge economic shock of reunification. Now they are where they are. And they are a country the size of Oregon, I don't think many Americans appreciate the cultural differences between such a small geographic area, nor do they understand it...or try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 [quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1340597874' post='1136597'] Well yeah, but Germany isn't going to be amongst those that "need liberated". Its an interesting case study, really. Germany got defeated, then stood down, then defied that via uber nationalism, then got defeated again. Became pro-west and then absorbed the huge economic shock of reunification. Now they are where they are. And they are a country the size of Oregon,[b] I don't think many Americans appreciate the cultural differences between such a small geographic area, nor do they understand it...or try.[/b] [/quote] Most Americans can't find it on a map, nor do they fucking care to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 [quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1340598914' post='1136601'] Most Americans can't find it on a map, nor do they fucking care to... [/quote] Yeah, that's certainly one of our problems. Most Americans cannot even name 30 of the 50 states when given a map...its sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 [quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1340599038' post='1136603'] Yeah, that's certainly one of our problems. Most Americans cannot even name 30 of the 50 states when given a map...its sad. [/quote] I think I've told this story here once before but it bears repeating. My wife and I hosted and exchange student from Germany a few years back. He attended one of the schools considered the best in the Clark County School District (seeing as it's one of the worst districts in the country that really doesn't mean much but I digress). One of the required classes was a US Government class, which is perfectly reasonable and expected. Keep in mind that he would have been a junior here at the time. One of the assignments in this class involved being given a copy of an outline of the United States and they were required to fill in the names of the states in each outline. Our exchange student received the highest score in the class, the kid from Sweden received the second highest score, and one of the girls who is from the US was heard asking "Which one's Alaska?". Yeah, I'm not too keen on the future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 I can name many states. I know the flag, song, flower, reptile, gem, tree, plant, nickname, and motto of Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1340600009' post='1136605'] I can name many states. I know the flag, song, flower, reptile, gem, tree, plant, nickname, and motto of Texas. [/quote] Who gives a shit about Texas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'm guessing this is a new show? Kinda cheesy, but it's Jeff Daniels. He also whupped some Confederate butt at Little Round Top. edit--forgot to mention: NSFW (language) [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI7Oq8y-jXA[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 [quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1340600605' post='1136606'] Who gives a shit about Texas? [/quote] Everyone should, it's the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_dish Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 [quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1340462052' post='1136475'] Yeah, are you telling me that $9 B wouldn't have built a high speed rail from LV to LA? Or a light rail system in LV which has probably the worst public transportation in the country? That kind of money could have put solar panels on most of the homes here. You don't think that would save energy? I don't mind spending that kind of money either, but give us something of value. [/quote] I wasn't defending BO or spending whatsoever... just offering a "hopefully there is a ray of light" sentiment. But I agree with you, I would rather have those things as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 What do you guys think about this platform? Too liberal? Not liberal enough? Give Amnesty to Illegals Negotiate with terrorists to give arms to them for hostages Raise taxes Put the top marginal tax rate to 50% Cut & Run after our troops were attacked Or how about this Get out out of the current war(s) Have a foreign policy that strengthen's diplomacy with established and emerging world powers Implement federal affirmative action policy Increase spending on federal employee salaries Propose a guaranteed annual wage or "negative income tax" Advocate for Single Payer Health Care for all americans Wage and price controls during times of economic crisis Index Social security for inflation and create a supplemental security income The EPA, OSHA, NOAA, and Office of Minority Business Enterprise (no cuts, make them stronger) Promote Legacy of Parks program Appoint the majority of your Justices that are in support of Roe vs Wade Or what about In favor of high protective tarrifs in favor of a national bank and improved internal development Or if someone said this would he be run out of town as a socialist? [left]"Should any political party attempt to abolish Social Security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things, but their number is negligible and they are stupid."[/left] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalsfansince68 Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 [quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1340600605' post='1136606'] Who gives a shit about Texas? [/quote] Christ Flock, one major thing that's wrong in this country is that no one gives a shit about anything but themselves. Politics in America SUCKS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 [quote name='bengalsfansince68' timestamp='1340665863' post='1136697'] Christ Flock, one major thing that's wrong in this country is that no one gives a shit about anything but themselves. Politics in America SUCKS!!! [/quote] Don't soil your Depends, gramps. Sois and I are friends in the real world and I never miss a chance to make fun of Texas. And Mike Leach. Politics in American has always sucked. Problem is we have a combination of 2 generations of folks who can't seem to think past their own nose, and an overwhelming information delivery system that gives everyone up to the mili-second information. There is no time to digest, ponder, or think, which leads to people making every judgement based on the latest soundbite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='bengalsfansince68' timestamp='1340665863' post='1136697'] Christ Flock, one major thing that's wrong in this country is that no one gives a shit about anything but themselves. Politics in America SUCKS!!! [/quote] The thing about that is that people arent even voting in their own interest, if they were we'd not have an oligarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1340669387' post='1136701'] The thing about that is that people arent even voting in their own interest, if they were we'd not have an oligarchy. [/quote] Demonize the other side so that you get voted in not because of your great leadership or ideas but rather because if the other side wins it will mean socialism/extreme capitilism. FWIW socialism is clearly what an evolved world would move towards. I understand the argument that we are not there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1340679045' post='1136716'] Demonize the other side so that you get voted in not because of your great leadership or ideas but rather because if the other side wins it will mean socialism/extreme capitilism. FWIW socialism is clearly what an evolved world would move towards. I understand the argument that we are not there yet. [/quote] I'm not a socialist, I'm just not an anarchocapitialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1340641468' post='1136649'] What do you guys think about this platform? Too liberal? Not liberal enough? Give Amnesty to Illegals Negotiate with terrorists to give arms to them for hostages Raise taxes Put the top marginal tax rate to 50% Cut & Run after our troops were attacked Or how about this Get out out of the current war(s) Have a foreign policy that strengthen's diplomacy with established and emerging world powers Implement federal affirmative action policy Increase spending on federal employee salaries Propose a guaranteed annual wage or "negative income tax" Advocate for Single Payer Health Care for all americans Wage and price controls during times of economic crisis Index Social security for inflation and create a supplemental security income The EPA, OSHA, NOAA, and Office of Minority Business Enterprise (no cuts, make them stronger) Promote Legacy of Parks program Appoint the majority of your Justices that are in support of Roe vs Wade Or what about In favor of high protective tarrifs in favor of a national bank and improved internal development Or if someone said this would he be run out of town as a socialist? [left]"Should any political party attempt to abolish Social Security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things, but their number is negligible and they are stupid."[/left] [/quote] No? Nobody? The first guy was Reagan, the 2nd Nixon, the 3rd Lincoln and the quote came from Eisenhower. All republicans. I find that I agree with Nixon and Lincoln the most, oh and the quote from Eisenhower is spot on. So when I say conservatives are stupid, I mean today's modern day conservatives which are really more anarchocapitialists, and I'm in good company. So dont tell me I'm "extreme left" it's just that the center has been so far moved to the right that none of these guys would survive as republicans today, and thats what the tea party has done with regard to where the political center is today. Edit: Shit if all we did was what Lincoln proposed there I'd be happier than Big Ben at a sorority party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 The reality is, everyone is "socialist" to some degree or another.. I'm not sure why it has become such a dirty word.. Any program the government involves itself in in order to shape or benefit society is a "socialist" endeavor. Publicly funded police, fire, sewer, trash, schooling etc... Are all "socialist" concepts. The only difference is what programs does the individual think should be taken on as a public and shared burden in order for it be provided as a function of our society. Most people would agree the social services I listed are not only desirable but absolutely necessary.. But they weren't always so. There was a time where if you wanted them you had to pay for them. If you didn't have the loot.. Tough shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantes Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 I'm pretty sure that $9 billion will trickle down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1340751883' post='1136813'] The reality is, everyone is "socialist" to some degree or another.. I'm not sure why it has become such a dirty word.. Any program the government involves itself in in order to shape or benefit society is a "socialist" endeavor. Publicly funded police, fire, sewer, trash, schooling etc... Are all "socialist" concepts. The only difference is what programs does the individual think should be taken on as a public and shared burden in order for it be provided as a function of our society. Most people would agree the social services I listed are not only desirable but absolutely necessary.. But they weren't always so. There was a time where if you wanted them you had to pay for them. If you didn't have the loot.. Tough shit. [/quote] Liberal... [quote name='Dantes' timestamp='1340753184' post='1136817'] I'm pretty sure that $9 billion will trickle down... [/quote] Super Liberal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 [quote name='Dantes' timestamp='1340753184' post='1136817'] I'm pretty sure that $9 billion will trickle down... [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_dish Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1340751883' post='1136813'] The reality is, everyone is "socialist" to some degree or another.. I'm not sure why it has become such a dirty word.. Any program the government involves itself in in order to shape or benefit society is a "socialist" endeavor. Publicly funded police, fire, sewer, trash, schooling etc... Are all "socialist" concepts. The only difference is what programs does the individual think should be taken on as a public and shared burden in order for it be provided as a function of our society. Most people would agree the social services I listed are not only desirable but absolutely necessary.. But they weren't always so. There was a time where if you wanted them you had to pay for them. If you didn't have the loot.. Tough shit. [/quote] If I'm not mistaken, I believe there still are parts of the country (maybe rural towns? IDK) that have pay-for-service emergency services... at least maybe just fire fighting. I think the main problem people have with the word Socialism in this country, is that social services are so easily and excessively abused- from welfare to (even) emergency services like 911 calls asking for ambulance rides to the grocery store/doctor/home. America cant utilize socialism effectively like a country such as Sweden can- we have a disproportionate amount of those who don't pay into the system. Maybe over the next 50 years that could change via jobs programs, enforcing education somehow, parental enforcement of some sort? I don't know... but more people to need carry their weight, and its going to take a concerted effort to make that happen. I would likely be totally fine with virtually all current social services if they were strictly a "hand up" rather than a "hand out". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 [quote name='big_dish' timestamp='1340762977' post='1136846'] I think the main problem people have with the word Socialism in this country, is that social services are so easily and excessively abused- from welfare to (even) emergency services like 911 calls asking for ambulance rides to the grocery store/doctor/home. [/quote] I hear this all of the time but I have never once seen a study that supports it. I hear individual anecdotes in a kind of urban legend kind of way but never a serious study. I am not saying it does not exist, but I think that people claim there are many more welfare mothers then there actually are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1340802306' post='1136890'] I hear this all of the time but I have never once seen a study that supports it. I hear individual anecdotes in a kind of urban legend kind of way but never a serious study. I am not saying it does not exist, but I think that people claim there are many more welfare mothers then there actually are. [/quote] Not to mention that, dollar-wise, there is an awful lot of fraud committed by "providers" as well as a lot of border-line unethical "taking advantage of the system" by companies wanting to milk the public teat. See this week's Frontline on dentists, for example, or note all the "Need a fancy-doodle mobile chair? We'll even fill out your medicaid/care application" companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 What confuses me is why, for so many people, the idea of welfare fraud is such a huge issue, yet corporate America can take enormous bailouts and defraud people on a colossal scale and it's more or less accepted as business as usual. It's ok for someone like GE to not pay taxes, the Republican presidential candidate can outsource jobs and have offshore tax shelters, but God forbid a single mother somewhere should get an extra $50 in food stamps! [i]Then[/i] it's time to get pissed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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