scharm Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 [quote name='Numbers' timestamp='1340631845' post='1136627'] Correct. Do you remember what they said when he was coming out for the draft ? He was too short and didn't have the arm strength. What was also said was that he was a broken toy and wouldn't last in the NFL. Good college QBs don't always make good QBs in the NFL but Gruden was something special to watch while he was in college. Had it not been for a low blow (I think it was against a Virginia school) which busted him up pretty bad (Almost Carson Palmer like getting Kimo'ed), Gruden might have succeeded in the NFL. No excuses for Gruden but one will never know what could have been because it never happened. For those that believe Dalton is right about where he belongs, why does he belong there ? Check the stats and you will see that Dalton ranks about 11th or even 10th of all active QBs. ...and no, am not a homer. All I am asking is that someone justify Dalton's Jaworski ranking with some facts and not beliefs. Someone who makes a good talent evaluator is not necessarily a good or bad former NFL player, or a person who never played. The proof lays in the facts. There appears to be no real rhyme or reason for who is better at evaluation. For instance, if it was a good player who went on to good talent evaluation, Matt Millen (4 Super Bowls as a player) would have been one of the best but we know that story. [/quote] Not that it's the end all be all - but he was the 20th rated passer. 16th passing yards. 21st comp percentage. Looks justified to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 [quote name='mongo' timestamp='1340640127' post='1136642'] Team performance shouldn't ever come into the ranking of an individual player. Too much goes into the making of a post season team. Dalton's individual performance places him in that 16-21 range, and that's where he's been placed. [/quote] Exactly see our (Bengal fan) debate of 2005 Palmer vs. Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 I'd take Dalton over Romo, Flacco, or Vick 11 times out of 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu-Zayd Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 [quote name='mongo' timestamp='1340629552' post='1136621'] I think the mediocre-to-bad players are the best evaluators. Elite specimens tend to just get it done. They don't worry quite as much about squeazing the last drop out of technique or classroom study because they can see over every lineman, and throw the ball through brick walls. Poor specimens have to work their brains out in every aspect of the position just to stay in the league... On a side note, I think that's what makes Peyton a bit special. He has immense physical talent, but works like a 7th rounder trying to make the team. [/quote] I think this is a good reason. But also, the more intelligent players often are somewhat less physically talented. Like they say, intelligence can compensate for lack of physical talent. So the mediocre player who got there because they are very sharp and worked hard make for outstanding future coaches. There are some exceptions but not many. Gruden is sharp. Lacks physical talent, but is very sharp and knows the game well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKfguTrSv_I&feature=g-all-u"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKfguTrSv_I&feature=g-all-u[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 [img]http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3699/58199346259924042559077.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 [quote name='happyrid' timestamp='1340644614' post='1136659']Do they include guys like Peyton Manning, Matt Schaub, Mike Vick and Jay Cutler who all missed at least parts of last season? I think you probably have to put him behind all of those guys at this point in his career, even if his stats were better than theirs last season because without the injuries, they'd have had better stats than Andy did. [/quote] I just noticed this.. Are you really saying Dalton should be ranked behind JAY CUTLER... because Cutler didn't play much last year? Dude has an 85 career QB rating... Thanks for the laugh, though. He said "Jay Cutler". Heheheheheh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 [quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1342047688' post='1138592'] I just noticed this.. Are you really saying Dalton should be ranked behind JAY CUTLER... because Cutler didn't play much last year? Dude has an 85 career QB rating... Thanks for the laugh, though. He said "Jay Cutler". Heheheheheh. [/quote] Cutler I believe only played in 10 games last year before a thumb injury or something. Had he continued he would have at least equalled Dalton's passing stats. However, Jaworski ranks him at number 8, really ?.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Cuteler is overrated. Typical QB that people fall in love with over potential and some cut up film. The modern day Jeff George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 I would have him ahead of Hasselbeck and Freeman, but that's quibbling. I don't understand the angst from some. There were a ton of good things said about Dalton, and if he does what I think he will do this year, he will be knocking on top 10 lists next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1340593530' post='1136591'] Is it me or does anyone else think Ron Jaworski was an average QB at best? The guy made the pro bowl what 1 time? Yeah, I know, he led the league is sacks 3 times (sarcasm) but the guy was barely a .500 QB his for his career. Does this somehow make him an expert on [/quote] Jaws was never going to be more than average. Vermeil knew it when he made him his QB. But then again, those Iggle teams from 1978-1981 were distinctly average. Even with those limitations, they made the playoffs 4 straight years, and went to a SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Cutler played pretty well for the Bears while running for his life and trying to find an open receiver. Dalton should be ranked ahead of the 3 guys immediately in front of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted October 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 [quote][color=#000000][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]14. Andy Dalton[/size][/font][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]Previous: 19[/size][/font][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]When I think of Dalton, I think of efficiency. This is an aggressive offense and Jay Gruden understands the talent he has on this side of the ball. A.J. Green is a a great security blanket for Dalton, and this is a tandem that will only get better. I don't see a lot of dumb mental errors like I normally spot in second-year quarterbacks. He just understands what he's supposed to do with the football.[/size][/font][/font][/color][/quote] [url="http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3957705-jaws-updated-qb-rankings/page__pid__7087026#entry7087026"]http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3957705-jaws-updated-qb-rankings/page__pid__7087026#entry7087026[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.O.C.H.O SHOW Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Romo, vick, dalton, and cutler I think are all interchangeable. I'd probably have Dalton ahead of atleast 2 of them if not all 3 and Im not sure which ones. Only thing I know is those 3 are very inconsistent. They come with higher highs and lower lows than Dalton. Dalton is steady as a rock. Never too up or down. And young and improving. I think RG3 fits right in with this group aswell. Dalton in that 10-14 range seems fair tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Meow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatcat Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 I was in the car earlier and heard Kurt Warner on Cowturd. He was asked who he likes best of all the 1st and 2nd year QB's this season. And Andy Dalton was clear his choice. Basically some of the same things we've heard: great anticipation, awareness, etc etc... Oh and commented on how in sync he is with AJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBengal Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Media types vastly overrate physical attributes (size, speed, arm strength) in young QBs. They forget that many of the elite older QBs (Brees, Brady etc.) were considered low upside players when they were young and unproven. They assume that QBs like Dalton that don't possess great measurables aren't capable of becoming elite players like the physical freaks (RGIII, Luck etc), even though the evidence to the contrary is staring them right in the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.O.C.H.O SHOW Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 [quote name='BlackBengal' timestamp='1349461596' post='1166490'] Media types vastly overrate physical attributes (size, speed, arm strength) in young QBs. They forget that many of the elite older QBs (Brees, Brady etc.) were considered low upside players when they were young and unproven. They assume that QBs like Dalton that don't possess great measurables aren't capable of becoming elite players like the physical freaks (RGIII, Luck etc), even though the evidence to the contrary is staring them right in the face. [/quote] I agree but I think its unfair to say a guy like Dalton, Brees, Brady don't have great athletic measurables. There isnt a throw any of those guys cant make. They may not have Cutler arm strength or Vick speed but they have anticipation and timeliness to make up for other things. You need a combination of both. 23 of the 32 starting QBs were 1st rd picks. And 3 more were 2nd rd picks. Of the other 6 starting QBs drafted only Romo, Schaub and Brady can say they have some kind of definitive future in the league. I know what your saying just I think its unfair to cut the Daltons or Breese athletic ability short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted October 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 http://imgur.com/a/9H0Hv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkansas Bengal Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1349531310' post='1166566'] [url="http://imgur.com/a/9H0Hv"]http://imgur.com/a/9H0Hv[/url] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpy Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1349531310' post='1166566'] http://imgur.com/a/9H0Hv [/quote] Classic!! But where's Andy!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted October 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 [quote name='Jumpy' timestamp='1349585471' post='1166709'] Classic!! But where's Andy!?! [/quote] Lol probably a good thing he wasn't included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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