Cutter: Romney, Ryan 'entire reason' Libya attack is political issue

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1350068108' post='1169393']
I put other peoples stuff in italics... Then I add my own but it wasn't taking them off. I gave up and just sent it.

The point remains that if you expect attacks, either shut down the embassy or give them more security. The list you showed me tells me these ambassadors should have mass security around them. Not to just say 'well shucks, that sucks... buts its a, b, or c's fault'
[/quote]

We have a quote button you know?

Ok then you better call out the past Presidents that failed in that regard.

[bengalrick]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1350068390' post='1169397']
We have a quote button you know?

Ok then you better call out the past Presidents that failed in that regard.
[/quote]

no shit!1!!! Is that the [i]I[/i] button ???

Not one of them lost an ambassador, now did they? At least in my lifetime (31 years)

[Lewdog]

[quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1350068182' post='1169396']
interesting... It does help somewhat. Honest question Bung, why were they asking for more help though? And these guys are completely at the mercy of the host nations security?

In that case, we shouldn't have an embassy in Libya imo.
[/quote]

The site of an embassy is considered the same as the country itself. So in reality, when those people stormed the U.S. Embassy in Libya, they were attacking the United States. The host country has to provide outside defense because that is not property of the U.S. Bung and I kind of argued back and forth about this, but Marines are assigned to Embassies around the world. Bung believe them to be nothing more than glorified pencil pushers, but nevertheless they are Marines. The best decision would have been just to pull the embassy staff when the Libyan rebels started to revolt. Then none of this would have happened.

[|Bunghole|]

Rick-

Yes, they are essentially at the mercy of the host nation's security. There are a few exceptions around the world, like that monstrous compound in Baghdad, but most embassies aren't huge extravagant affairs in "lesser" countries, although they do generally have nice amenities.

This thing in Libya is unprecedented, and ironic given how we just helped them topple their brutal, crazy dictator, but hey...some asshole makes a movie that's mean to Mohammed and it's America's fault because of our freedom of speech rights...mmmmkay.

But this is serious (and aside from the fact that barbarians like these fuckers aren't just happy with destroying, stealing and killing the Americans within, oh no, we have to drag the bodies through the streets to send a message!) and again, look at it this way: even if there was a platoon of Marines there, a large enough, armed and determined mob will overrun the embassy anyway. The fault lies with the Libyan "security forces" as well as with our own government.

[bengalrick]

[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1350068876' post='1169407']
Rick-

Yes, they are essentially at the mercy of the host nation's security. There are a few exceptions around the world, like that monstrous compound in Baghdad, but most embassies aren't huge extravagant affairs in "lesser" countries, although they do generally have nice amenities.

This thing in Libya is unprecedented, and ironic given how we just helped them topple their brutal, crazy dictator, but hey...some asshole makes a movie that's mean to Mohammed and it's America's fault because of our freedom of speech rights...mmmmkay.

But this is serious (and aside from the fact that barbarians like these fuckers aren't just happy with destroying, stealing and killing the Americans within, oh no, we have to drag the bodies through the streets to send a message!) and again, look at it this way: even if there was a platoon of Marines there, a large enough, armed and determined mob will overrun the embassy anyway. The fault lies with the Libyan "security forces" as well as with our own government.
[/quote]

Thanks and agreed wholeheartedly.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1350068876' post='1169407']
Rick-

Yes, they are essentially at the mercy of the host nation's security. There are a few exceptions around the world, like that monstrous compound in Baghdad, but most embassies aren't huge extravagant affairs in "lesser" countries, although they do generally have nice amenities.

This thing in Libya is unprecedented, and ironic given how we just helped them topple their brutal, crazy dictator, but hey...some asshole makes a movie that's mean to Mohammed and it's America's fault because of our freedom of speech rights...mmmmkay.

But this is serious (and aside from the fact that barbarians like these fuckers aren't just happy with destroying, stealing and killing the Americans within, oh no, we have to drag the bodies through the streets to send a message!) and again, look at it this way: even if there was a platoon of Marines there, a large enough, armed and determined mob will overrun the embassy anyway. The fault lies with the Libyan "security forces" as well as with our own government.
[/quote]

Isn't it just the nature of the beast that no matter what the U.S. does they will be blamed for something? Look at some of the countries in Africa, where we dropped food and water to keep them from starving to death; did they thanks the United States? No they killed some chopper pilots, dragged their bodies through the streets, and posed next to them for pictures. If the U.S. would have done nothing at all we would have been called heartless. We try to help a country and we get branded as having a ulterior motive to try and spread democracy and freedom. What the hell are we supposed to do?

[Vol_Bengal]

Three things are disturbing to me about that whole deal...

1) The British had the foresight to pull their folks out of their embassy back during the summer... why didn't we?
2) Folks on the ground at the embassy asked for additional support / security forces and were denied. Then, when the existing force was being reduced further (while the diplomats were still staying put) they requested to at least keep the force they had and were denied.
3) Reports stating that the security forces that did stay weren't allowed to carry live ammo on the grounds (supposedly due to Obama's demand).

I don't know what is and is not accurate, but if these three things prove to be true then there is a major issue at hand. Jamie - your cousin is right, these attacks will still occur. But, when other foreign countries have the foresight to remove diplomats from harms way why don't we? When there is mounds of evidence and "scuttlebutt" that things are about to go down and we're "Baghdad Bobing" it and sitting with our thumbs up our asses someone has to explain that. I'm not saying this falls at Obama's feet, I'm not saying it doesn't. But you have Hillary at the State department saying she was denied requests from the administration to address the Benghazi Embassy something is amiss.

[|kennethmw|]

Guys, you do realize that the attack was not on the Embassy, it was on a Consulate. There was a much larger presence at the Embassy, And I still have not heard from anyone why the Ambassador was at a Consulate on that day.

[bengalrick]

Posting this for my own knowledge and anyone else interested in the difference between the two pointed out above by Kenneth:

[url="http://geography.about.com/od/politicalgeography/a/embassy.htm"]http://geography.about.com/od/politicalgeography/a/embassy.htm[/url]

[i][color=#333333][font=Verdana][size=3]Often, while the terms embassy and consulate are used together, however, the two are very different. An embassy is the larger and more important of the two and is described as a permanent diplomatic mission which is generally located in a country's capital city. For example the United States Embassy in Canada is located in Ottawa, Ontario. Capital cities like Ottawa, Washington D.C., and London are home to nearly 200 embassies each.[/size][/font][/color][/i][color=#333333][font=Verdana][size=3]
[i]The embassy is responsible for representing the home country abroad and handling major diplomatic issues, such as preserving the rights of citizens abroad. The ambassador is the highest official in the embassy and acting as the chief diplomat and spokesperson for the home government. Ambassadors are typically appointed by the highest level of the home government. In the United States, ambassadors are appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate.[/i][/size][/font][/color][color=#333333][font=Verdana][size=3]
[i]The member countries of the [url="http://geography.about.com/od/politicalgeography/a/commonwealth.htm"]Commonwealth of Nations[/url] do not exchange ambassadors but instead utilize the office of High Commissioner between member countries.[/i][/size][/font][/color][color=#333333][font=Verdana][size=3]
[i]Usually, if a country recognizes another as being sovereign, an embassy is established to maintain foreign relations and provide assistance to traveling citizens.[/i][/size][/font][/color][color=#333333][font=Verdana][size=3]
[i]By contrast, a consulate is a smaller version of an embassy and is generally located in the larger tourist cities of a country but not the capital. In Germany for instance, the U.S. consulates are in cities like Frankfurt, Hamburg, and Munich, but not in the capital city of Berlin (because the embassy is located in Berlin).[/i][/size][/font][/color][color=#333333][font=Verdana][size=3]
[i]Consulates (and their chief diplomat, the consul) handle minor diplomatic issues like issuing visas, aiding in trade relationships, and taking care of migrants, tourists, and expatriates.[/i][/size][/font][/color]

[Lewdog]

Let me take this chance to let everyone know, especially during these times, if you travel abroad, the first thing to do is find the nearest American Embassy and report to them that you are in the country on vacation, and give them information they can use to get a hold of you. If something goes down they are going to be the only ones that can save your butt. I'm not exactly sure if it is different in different countries, but some tell you to always carry your passport, while others say to get paperwork from the embassy to carry instead, and leave your passport locked in the hotel safe so it doesn't get lost or stolen.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1350075662' post='1169441']
Guys, you do realize that the attack was not on the Embassy, it was on a Consulate. There was a much larger presence at the Embassy, And I still have not heard from anyone why the Ambassador was at a Consulate on that day.
[/quote]

True, but the same diplomatic ties apply vis a vis security, etc.

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1350076856' post='1169449']
Let me take this chance to let everyone know, especially during these times, if you travel abroad, the first thing to do is find the nearest American Embassy and report to them that you are in the country on vacation, and give them information they can use to get a hold of you. If something goes down they are going to be the only ones that can save your butt. I'm not exactly sure if it is different in different countries, but some tell you to always carry your passport, while others say to get paperwork from the embassy to carry instead, and leave your passport locked in the hotel safe so it doesn't get lost or stolen.
[/quote]

Especially when in Canada. You can't trust those fuckers with their beady little eyes and their flapping little heads and their "aboot", "hoser", "eh" and "poutine" talkie stuff.

[T-Dub]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1350069398' post='1169411']
Look at some of the countries in Africa, where we dropped food and water to keep them from starving to death; did they thanks the United States? No they killed some chopper pilots, dragged their bodies through the streets, and posed next to them for pictures.
[/quote]

Hey guy, Africa is a continent, not a person. Africa didn't drag anybody, unless you're referring to plate tectonics. Of course in the Glenn Beck worldview that is probably just another muslim conspiracy.

I can't say I'm exactly surprised you would condemn a billion-plus people as "they" based on nothing more than geography, but still felt I should point it out.

[T-Dub]

[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1350087512' post='1169460']
Especially when in Canada. You can't trust those fuckers with their beady little eyes and their flapping little heads and their "aboot", "hoser", "eh" and "poutine" talkie stuff.
[/quote]

Best just to stay home in Pigfuck, Arkansas with a shotgun across your lap. Only way to be sure.

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1350088335' post='1169469']
Best just to stay home in Pigfuck, Arkansas with a shotgun across your lap. Only way to be sure.
[/quote]

[|Bunghole|]

Bill Clinton is my Arkansas "spotter", and by "spotter" I mean "finder of women that we will forcibly rape under threat of having rocksalt from a shotgun blown into their asses" (which is probably an internet porn fetish, I haven't looked).

[Lewdog]

[quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1350088272' post='1169467']
Hey guy, Africa is a continent, not a person. Africa didn't drag anybody, unless you're referring to plate tectonics. Of course in the Glenn Beck worldview that is probably just another muslim conspiracy.

I can't say I'm exactly surprised you would condemn a billion-plus people as "they" based on nothing more than geography, but still felt I should point it out.
[/quote]

You are pretty good at showing your ass tonight, did you find some lipstick on your boyfriend's collar? Obviously Africa is a continent, not quite like Asia, because there are women out there named Asia right? So I guess you've never seen the movie 'Black Hawk Down' that was based on factual events? Well of course you probably have, but that wouldn't fit into the asinine role you try to play, and ineptly fail at. The U.S. was there to help people from a warlord that was stealing supplies and giving it to his gunmen, or selling it. The point you worked so hard to forget, is that in some situations the U.S. is going to be the bad guy no matter what they do. You on the other hand, is a fuck stick no matter what you do. Give yourself a round of applause and make sure to record it so you can play it back in another 20 years when you do something important.

[|Bunghole|]

Asia:

a continent
a popular prostitute name
a band ("it was the heat of the moment")

[T-Dub]

[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1350090077' post='1169479']
having rocksalt from a shotgun blown into their asses" (which is probably an internet porn fetish, I haven't looked).
[/quote]



Rule 34

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1350090077' post='1169479']
Bill Clinton is my Arkansas "spotter", and by "spotter" I mean "finder of women that we will forcibly rape under threat of having rocksalt from a shotgun blown into their asses" (which is probably an internet porn fetish, I haven't looked).
[/quote]

Didn't someone like Kim Kardashian or another chick like her, sue some magazine for using a picture of her ugly cellulite ass?

[T-Dub]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1350090491' post='1169482']
So I guess you've never seen the movie 'Black Hawk Down' that was based on factual events?
[/quote]

Yeah, read a pretty good article at the time it happened, too. Unfortunately I can't remember where it was published, but poing being I know the incident you're speaking of... And my point was that condemning a continent of over a billion people based on that incident would be like me basing my opinion of Americans on the antics of drunken rednecks fighting over the last bag of meth in a trailer park in Pigfuck, Arkansas.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1350096003' post='1169506']
Yeah, read a pretty good article at the time it happened, too. Unfortunately I can't remember where it was published, but poing being I know the incident you're speaking of... And my point was that condemning a continent of over a billion people based on that incident would be like me basing my opinion of Americans on the antics of drunken rednecks fighting over the last bag of meth in a trailer park in Pigfuck, Arkansas.
[/quote]

That's like saying I really did mean the whole continent of Africa when in fact you knew what incident I was referring to and who they were. Then again you wouldn't admit that, because that would throw your whole 'I'm trying to be cool' persona out of the water right? Actually some countries do think all of America is Rednecks. Some other countries think all American's are belligerent and egotistical. Even others think all Americans are fat and lazy. You talk like that is far fetched. Really when you come down to it, it doesn't matter because you have not providing one single bit of positive information to this thread.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1350093280' post='1169496']


Rule 34
[/quote]

I always forget that one. All our daughters are porn to us. It is useless to resist.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1350096384' post='1169510']
That's like saying I really did mean the whole continent of Africa when in fact you knew what incident I was referring to and who they were. Then again you wouldn't admit that, because that would throw your whole 'I'm trying to be cool' persona out of the water right? Actually some countries do think all of America is Rednecks. Some other countries think all American's are belligerent and egotistical. Even others think all Americans are fat and lazy. You talk like that is far fetched. Really when you come down to it, it doesn't matter because you have not providing one single bit of positive information to this thread.
[/quote]

You do realize that the American effort depicted in the movie "Blackhawk Down" was about capturing a Mogadishu warlord and not about touchy feely American aid to Somalia...right?

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1350096660' post='1169513']
You do realize that the American effort depicted in the movie "Blackhawk Down" was about capturing a Mogadishu warlord and not about touchy feely American aid to Somalia...right?
[/quote]

How can it not be one in the same? The Warlord they were trying to get rid of was stealing food and other supplies dropped by the U.S. to help the people of Somalia. The warlord was capturing those aid packages and giving it to his forces or selling them. The U.S. would just be treading water in the region unless they cut off the head of the snake.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1350096894' post='1169515']
How can it not be one in the same? The Warlord they were trying to get rid of was stealing food and other supplies dropped by the U.S. to help the people of Somalia. The warlord was capturing those aid packages and giving it to his forces or selling them. The U.S. would just be treading water in the region unless they cut off the head of the snake.
[/quote]

Are you serious? The military operation in and of itself was to kill or capture Mohammed Aidid, Don't think for a second that it wasn't an arbitrary decision. The welfare of "intercepted food aid" was strictly secondary from our political POV during that time. We wanted to teach that fucker a lesson and went in on a poorly planned, poorly executed mission that failed. It was NEVER about food aid, it was a "don't fuck with us, you insignificant warlord" mission.