Andy Dalton - AFC Player of the Week

[Oldcat]

 

Joe Reedy ‏@joereedy2m

The last Bengals player to be honored Player of Week or Month three times in a season was David Fulcher in 1989

 

 

Were we deciding if we should cut him that year too?

[alleycat]

i won't give you a negative, as others did here, because there's a lot of merit in your suggestion, even though you were obviously trying to be facetious.
 
so yes, the improved OL play WAS a big factor in andy's performance. and jay gruden DID call a good game, with more runs than we're used to mixed in with a diverse passing attack utilizing 7 different receivers.
 
so while you were trying to be funny, it's a solid point that i agree with wholeheartedly. it's what many of us have been begging for, and it played out with the results and improvements we assumed it would.
 
now, you want to hear the scary (good) part? this offense has the capability of being a lot better than we were last sunday.

Replying to khat here bc I have him on ignore. But when he gets quoted I see so...here it goes:

Yes. Absolutely. Go into the discussions over the last couple of days and you'll see posts from me, who has been one of Dalton's most outspoken defenders - and a big critic of the OLine and Gruden - giving both major props and crediting them with the difference in his performance. Because that's what we've been saying all along.

Problem is, haters still don't want to affirm any of that because doing so admits three things they'd rather not:

1) Dalton isn't as bad as they want believe
2) The OLine (and Gruden) were NOT doing as well as they'd claimed.
3) We were right.

Now, all that said, the last two defenses were terrible. Lets see what happens against Pitt and BAL.

[scharm]

Lol, khat can get alley to respond even when ignored.

[alleycat]

Lol, khat can get alley to respond even when ignored.

He's on ignore bc of his plethora of irrational mock Dalton loving posts. When he's not being childish and wants to have a productive football conversation he has something to offer, and of course, I have something to return. :)

Who knows? Hopefully he'll keep making decent posts and they'll get quoted and ill see them enough that I'll take him off my list. No one should have the dubious distinction of being coupled alone with Hayden in any manner - even if only on an ignore list.

[bengaled]

He's on ignore bc of his plethora of irrational mock Dalton loving posts. When he's not being childish and wants to have a productive football conversation he has something to offer, and of course, I have something to return. :)

Who knows? Hopefully he'll keep making decent posts and they'll get quoted and ill see them enough that I'll take him off my list. No one should have the dubious distinction of being coupled alone with Hayden in any manner - even if only on an ignore list.

 

i'll weigh in.

 

khat's said he's going to give it a good try, and maybe that's a post you missed since you had him on ignore. while i can see why you might have put him on ignore before, perhaps he's turned a new leaf and deserves a 2nd chance?

 

he won a good measure of respect from me by doing that.

[alleycat]

i'll weigh in.
 
khat's said he's going to give it a good try, and maybe that's a post you missed since you had him on ignore. while i can see why you might have put him on ignore before, perhaps he's turned a new leaf and deserves a 2nd chance?
 
he won a good measure of respect from me by doing that.

Nothing like (another) dominant performance to calm the nerves?

I think I'll weather another down game first. Or take him off ignore after we win the SB. :)

[The_Joker]

Shouldn't all the love go to the OLine and Jay Gruden?   They face the brunt of the criticism when Dalton doesn't play well.   Shouldn't they get the credit when he does well? 

 

Or is it a case of deflecting blame whenever its convenient for yourself?

 

Just thought I should point that out.  

 

Hope he gets AFC Player of the Week for the rest of the year.   

:41:

 

Andy actually threw the ball away a couple times after going through his progression and the during the last two weeks he made some throws that were spot on. Maybe 6-8 key throws during the two game stretch that were in tight windows and right on time. The one throw to Baby Hawk on Sunday hit him in perfect stride. If he can minimize or eliminate turnovers down the stretch we will be in fine shape.  

[Khatmandude]

 

 

i won't give you a negative, as others did here, because there's a lot of merit in your suggestion, even though you were obviously trying to be facetious.

 

so yes, the improved OL play WAS a big factor in andy's performance. and jay gruden DID call a good game, with more runs than we're used to mixed in with a diverse passing attack utilizing 7 different receivers.

 

so while you were trying to be funny, it's a solid point that i agree with wholeheartedly. it's what many of us have been begging for, and it played out with the results and improvements we assumed it would.

 

 

now, you want to hear the scary (good) part? this offense has the capability of being a lot better than we were last sunday.

 

Appreciate it Ed.  I wasn't trying to be funny or facetious or trolling etc......it is a legitimate point.  I simply wanted to point it out...for people to think about when there's success vs lack of.   It was to get people to think about both sides of it.   That's it.  

 

I think some people sense any sort of criticism towards Dalton and it's automatically "trolling" and neg reps are handed out.  Think about the point that's trying to be made instead of becoming so automatically defensive.  

 

And I agree, this offense can be dominant.  Impose its will through the air or on the ground.  It's so nice having the Bengals playing at this level, such quality football and getting wins to show for it.  

[The_Joker]

If alleycat takes me off ignore, I will be honored.  It will be a major accomplishment in my life to know I have won his approval and made it off of the alleycat ignore list.  

 

Pls someone, anyone ( :wave: backer) quote my post so that he can see my plea.....maybe I can get an internet diagnosis! :lol:

My troll move of the day...

[Khatmandude]

Ha...I actually deleted my post like 1 min after posting...how did you do that?  I deleted as I didn't want to further instigate....look what you've gone and done Joker! haha. 

[Phatcat]

As one who put's more blame on Gruden than the Oline and probably viewed as a Dalton supporter (but not true), I didn't see Khat's original point in this thread other than calling for equal credit to be given where credit is due.  The "so called" Dalton supporters are equally guilty of taking every comment to the extreme as the "so called" Dalton haters are.   

 

Oh and I'm on record in one of these threads for screaming hallelujah when Dalton rolled out on his very first pass attempt of the game.  For that I gave credit to Gruden.     

[T-Dub]

Shouldn't all the love go to the OLine and Jay Gruden?   They face the brunt of the criticism when Dalton doesn't play well.   Shouldn't they get the credit when he does well? 

 

Or is it a case of deflecting blame whenever its convenient for yourself?

 

Just thought I should point that out.  

 

Hope he gets AFC Player of the Week for the rest of the year.   

 

 

Should mud get the credit if you manage to get your car unstuck?

[JBandJoeyV]

 

Appreciate it Ed.  I wasn't trying to be funny or facetious or trolling etc......it is a legitimate point.  I simply wanted to point it out...for people to think about when there's success vs lack of.   It was to get people to think about both sides of it.   That's it.  

 

I think some people sense any sort of criticism towards Dalton and it's automatically "trolling" and neg reps are handed out.  Think about the point that's trying to be made instead of becoming so automatically defensive.  

 

And I agree, this offense can be dominant.  Impose its will through the air or on the ground.  It's so nice having the Bengals playing at this level, such quality football and getting wins to show for it.  

 

I agree, but I think the problem is sometimes you view pointing out others mistakes as us just blindly defending dalton. If you look at some of the "dalton defenders" posts, such as myself, you will see that I point out when I think gruden or the oline have a bad game but Ill also point out right away when I think they have good games too. Ill even point out things that I think they can improve on, along with things that AD can improve on. 

 

Anyone can see that this is a team game and it takes multiple parts of the team to be successful in order for the team to be successful. Certain QBs in this league can perform well even when other parts arent, but that is a very few amount (maybe 3 or 4). The majority of QBs in this league, like Dalton, need to have good oline play, good play calling, and guys that catch balls. When they all do that, we have a good opportunity to be a very successful offense and dalton a very successful qb.

 

Hopefully all 5 segments of our offense play like they did last sunday (Oline, QB, receivers, running game, and playcalling).

[alleycat]

 Dalton supporters are equally guilty of taking every comment to the extreme as the "so called" Dalton haters are.   

 

I want names. Other than Kenneth, who looks like a giant glass pitcher he drinks so much kool-aid, which Dalton supporters aren't also open about his weaknesses and/or need for growth?  I may not be thinking of whom you speak, but there's a world of difference between challenging flawed/misplaced criticism and saying Andy is without fault (which would be the opposite extreme).

[Phatcat]

 

I want names. Other than Kenneth, who looks like a giant glass pitcher he drinks so much kool-aid, which Dalton supporters aren't also open about his weaknesses and/or need for growth?  I may not be thinking of whom you speak, but there's a world of difference between challenging flawed/misplaced criticism and saying Andy is without fault (which would be the opposite extreme).

 

I think for one you are guilty.  Now hear me out before you respond.  Khat has his style.  He uses overt sarcasm in his comments/replies to the subject.  You use a very subtle approach, but equally as decisive.  You are a writer?  Correct?   Both are the same with different styles.  

 

But I like both of you guys.  Both make great points... both take every comment to the extreme.   But in reality just different styles. Obviously you guys are very intelligent, well spoken, and most importantly are great fans and watch the game on a level that 90% of the fan base doesn't..   You may differ in opinion (as all of us do on here), but I honestly think the majority of the divisiveness on here has more to do with style than substance.    

[alleycat]

 

I think for one you are guilty.  Now hear me out before you respond.  Khat has his style.  He uses overt sarcasm in his comments/replies to the subject.  You use a very subtle approach, but equally as decisive.  You are a writer?  Correct?   Both are the same with different styles.  

 

But I like both of you guys.  Both make great points... both take every comment to the extreme.   But in reality just different styles. Obviously you guys are very intelligent, well spoken, and most importantly are great fans and watch the game on a level that 90% of the fan base doesn't..   You may differ in opinion (as all of us do on here), but I honestly think the majority of the divisiveness on here has more to do with style than substance.    

 

Interesting.  I guess I assume that since I've well established the areas of Dalton's shortcomings, that when I defend him against what I perceive to be unwarranted blaming people are aware of the history. 

 

I think I simply respond categorically, and rather than just state things like Dalton sucks or Dalton is god (or the O-Line's performance is affecting Dalton's), I almost always provide reasoning.  And I'm willing to go where the evidence takes me. I don't think that's extreme (it's not my fault if most of the evidence has pointed one way).

 

In other words, just because we're at a point in society where the extreme people can accuse anyone who disputes them of being extreme in the opposite direction doesn't make them so.

 

EDIT: and if you'd like to see my posts where I'm "open about his weakness and/or need for growth," just pick a number.  Would 20 posts be enough? 50?  I'll post give you the links.

[The_Joker]

Ha...I actually deleted my post like 1 min after posting...how did you do that?  I deleted as I didn't want to further instigate....look what you've gone and done Joker! haha. 

Sorry about that. I hope I didn't stir shit up.

[|kennethmw|]

I want names. Other than Kenneth, who looks like a giant glass pitcher he drinks so much kool-aid, which Dalton supporters aren't also open about his weaknesses and/or need for growth?  I may not be thinking of whom you speak, but there's a world of difference between challenging flawed/misplaced criticism and saying Andy is without fault (which would be the opposite extreme).

Now, why do you feel the need to put my name in your shit? I guess I'm a bad guy because I tend to be a homer for my team, huh? Well then, just consider me bad, then, because I have no desire to pick individual players apart in a TEAM GAME. You play as a team, you win as a team, and you lose as a team.

[scharm]

Dalton Haters and Dalton Defenders have taken turns being wrong. Why? Because that's Andy Dalton. People reference "good Andy/Bad Andy" all the time on this board. I think Mayock said something to the effect that Bengals could go to Superbowl if Dalton gets hot again. Clayton/Lap acknowledged the up and down nature last night on the radio.

 

That dynamic exist with Andy Dalton. Doesn't completely suck isn't completely great either.

 

I think Khat has batted near 100% on this as his main point or the 1 I remember is he was mocking/saying people sacrifice honest analysis in favor of their ego. I think that's why Dalton Defenders have been wrong more often in this season. Dalton's performance this critical 3rd year suggests his upside isn't as great. Dalton Defenders kinda play this game that IF the Center plays better or IF Gruden calls these plays that this mythical elite upside could be reached.

 

Could be true. Crazy stuff happens in the NFL. I don't believe that's the reality anymore. The current reality: are these Cincinnati Bengals the Baltimore Ravens or Houston Texans? Good teams with average QBs.

 

Ravens - since 2008 has 2 AFC runner ups and a Superbowl Champ.

Texans - since 2008 had the title given to them as up and coming, won some division titles, beat the Cincinnati Bengals twice in playoffs and no more.

 

I know what I would take. However we are at that point. Next 3 games decides our path in the postseason. Then Postseason.

 

Ravens proved they could overcome their average QB. Houston never did and eventually crashed and burned and will be forced to go through some critical steps to keep the championship window open for them.

 

That's really were we are at. It isn't about if you once thought Dalton was shit and are now wrong or once thought he was Brees and are wrong. He's Dalton. Pending on the results of the next two months that should drive the legacy for Marvin Lewis, Zimmer, AJ Green, Andy Dalton, Paul Alexander, Mike Brown. If it comes out bad and you set aside your ego and defense previous positions then you might be able to weigh in on what needs to be changed. I personally think it turns out good, very good.

 

I have no problem admitting back in January 2010, I wanted no part of Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis. I didn't think the current reality was possible. No big deal. Posters can learn from the recent teachings of Khat.

[Khatmandude]

 

 

Should mud get the credit if you manage to get your car unstuck?

 

 

I agree, but I think the problem is sometimes you view pointing out others mistakes as us just blindly defending dalton. If you look at some of the "dalton defenders" posts, such as myself, you will see that I point out when I think gruden or the oline have a bad game but Ill also point out right away when I think they have good games too. Ill even point out things that I think they can improve on, along with things that AD can improve on. 

 

Anyone can see that this is a team game and it takes multiple parts of the team to be successful in order for the team to be successful. Certain QBs in this league can perform well even when other parts arent, but that is a very few amount (maybe 3 or 4). The majority of QBs in this league, like Dalton, need to have good oline play, good play calling, and guys that catch balls. When they all do that, we have a good opportunity to be a very successful offense and dalton a very successful qb.

 

Hopefully all 5 segments of our offense play like they did last sunday (Oline, QB, receivers, running game, and playcalling).

 

You're actually fairly rational about it.....my post was more towards those who think Dalton can do no wrong.  See the quoted post above yours.  That was in response to me asking shouldn't the OLine and Gruden get credit.  Apparently some think the OLine and Gruden are mud that are keeping the Ferrari that is Dalton from accelerating.   

 

Now, why do you feel the need to put my name in your shit? I guess I'm a bad guy because I tend to be a homer for my team, huh? Well then, just consider me bad, then, because I have no desire to pick individual players apart in a TEAM GAME. You play as a team, you win as a team, and you lose as a team.

 

What you lookin' at? You all a bunch of fuckin' assholes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be? You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie. Me, I don't have that problem. Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. So say good night to the bad guy! Come on. The last time you gonna see a bad guy like this again, let me tell you. Come on. Make way for the bad guy. There's a bad guy comin' through! Better get outta his way!

[Khatmandude]

 

I think for one you are guilty.  Now hear me out before you respond.  Khat has his style.  He uses overt sarcasm in his comments/replies to the subject.  You use a very subtle approach, but equally as decisive.  You are a writer?  Correct?   Both are the same with different styles.  

 

But I like both of you guys.  Both make great points... both take every comment to the extreme.   But in reality just different styles. Obviously you guys are very intelligent, well spoken, and most importantly are great fans and watch the game on a level that 90% of the fan base doesn't..   You may differ in opinion (as all of us do on here), but I honestly think the majority of the divisiveness on here has more to do with style than substance.    

 

That is such horseshit you dbag!   :lol: 

 

I agree, good post.

[Khatmandude]

Dalton Haters and Dalton Defenders have taken turns being wrong. Why? Because that's Andy Dalton. People reference "good Andy/Bad Andy" all the time on this board. I think Mayock said something to the effect that Bengals could go to Superbowl if Dalton gets hot again. Clayton/Lap acknowledged the up and down nature last night on the radio.

 

That dynamic exist with Andy Dalton. Doesn't completely suck isn't completely great either.

 

I think Khat has batted near 100% on this as his main point or the 1 I remember is he was mocking/saying people sacrifice honest analysis in favor of their ego. I think that's why Dalton Defenders have been wrong more often in this season. Dalton's performance this critical 3rd year suggests his upside isn't as great. Dalton Defenders kinda play this game that IF the Center plays better or IF Gruden calls these plays that this mythical elite upside could be reached.

 

Could be true. Crazy stuff happens in the NFL. I don't believe that's the reality anymore. The current reality: are these Cincinnati Bengals the Baltimore Ravens or Houston Texans? Good teams with average QBs.

 

Ravens - since 2008 has 2 AFC runner ups and a Superbowl Champ.

Texans - since 2008 had the title given to them as up and coming, won some division titles, beat the Cincinnati Bengals twice in playoffs and no more.

 

I know what I would take. However we are at that point. Next 3 games decides our path in the postseason. Then Postseason.

 

Ravens proved they could overcome their average QB. Houston never did and eventually crashed and burned and will be forced to go through some critical steps to keep the championship window open for them.

 

That's really were we are at. It isn't about if you once thought Dalton was shit and are now wrong or once thought he was Brees and are wrong. He's Dalton. Pending on the results of the next two months that should drive the legacy for Marvin Lewis, Zimmer, AJ Green, Andy Dalton, Paul Alexander, Mike Brown. If it comes out bad and you set aside your ego and defense previous positions then you might be able to weigh in on what needs to be changed. I personally think it turns out good, very good.

 

I have no problem admitting back in January 2010, I wanted no part of Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis. I didn't think the current reality was possible. No big deal. Posters can learn from the recent teachings of Khat.

 

As previously stated, Scharm has the most objective opinion on Dalton.  Gives credit to him while acknowledging that he's not a world beater.   

[JBandJoeyV]

 
As previously stated, Scharm has the most objective opinion on Dalton.  Gives credit to him while acknowledging that he's not a world beater.   

The fact of the matter is that things are rarely black or white. Most things usually fall somewhere in the gray. But we get in silly little arguments and it ends up moving the needle for some from a darker shade of gray to pitch black and it moves some from the lighter shade of gray to ghost white.

If that makes sense hah

[Rumble In the Jungle]

Now, why do you feel the need to put my name in your shit? I guess I'm a bad guy because I tend to be a homer for my team, huh? Well then, just consider me bad, then, because I have no desire to pick individual players apart in a TEAM GAME. You play as a team, you win as a team, and you lose as a team.

:lol: you a cool dude Kenny. Me and khat us non homers wouldn't throw you under the bus like that :lol:

[Phatcat]

The fact of the matter is that things are rarely black or white. Most things usually fall somewhere in the gray. But we get in silly little arguments and it ends up moving the needle for some from a darker shade of gray to pitch black and it moves some from the lighter shade of gray to ghost white.

If that makes sense hah

Makes sense to me.  Why I said both sides go to the extreme.  But I like all of you guys on here...except emdiggy... :)