claptonrocks Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 11 minutes ago, T-Dub said: The lack of student debt relief and the lack of fight over Roe v Wade are going to hurt him. Israel is going to hurt him. I know a good number of people who are sick of US imperialism and refusing to participate. I think people in general are sick of choosing a lesser evil. That's still evil, after all. Endorsing it becomes tiresome. Dems are acting like Trump is so bad that they don't have to try. It worked the last time but I'm not too sure about this time around. Agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Montana Bengal| Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 Quote "Under the Biden administration, more than 3.7 million student loan borrowers have had their debt forgiven by various executive actions." Didn't they just announce another big round of loan forgiveness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 26 minutes ago, Montana Bengal said: Didn't they just announce another big round of loan forgiveness? Glad citizens are ok with paying it off. Unbelievable.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shebengal Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, claptonrocks said: Glad citizens are ok with paying it off. Unbelievable.... I’m not really thrilled about this, anymore than I’m thrilled about paying for other parents in Ohio who make up to $145,000.00/year to send their kids to private schools. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, claptonrocks said: Glad citizens are ok with paying it off. Unbelievable.... I paid for my college out of my own pocket and eventually when doing my masters had my company pay for half of it. I'm completely fine with paying other people's debts with it. The cost of college is insane these days. During my undergrad, I had to refinance my house to afford the last year of my BS degree or I would not have been able to finish school. ANd I only was going part-time and taking 4 classes a school year!! And I make Software Engineer money, I can not imagine how others get by. To be blunt college and or trade school should just be paid for like we already pay for K-12 Getting people out of debt that they can not declare bankruptcy on by the way, is far and away better for this economy overall than keeping those people under water. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 10 minutes ago, Jamie_B said: I paid for my college out of my own pocket and eventually when doing my masters had my company pay for half of it. I'm completely fine with paying other people's debts with it. The cost of college is insane these days. During my undergrad, I had to refinance my house to afford the last year of my BS degree or I would not have been able to finish school. ANd I only was going part-time and taking 4 classes a school year!! And I make Software Engineer money, I can not imagine how others get by. To be blunt college and or trade school should just be paid for like we already pay for K-12 Getting people out of debt that they can not declare bankruptcy on by the way, is far and away better for this economy overall than keeping those people under water. You did well.. much respect on that. Not others share your view of taxpayers money paying off loans they didn't accure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: You did well.. much respect on that. Not others share your view of taxpayers money paying off loans they didn't accure. An educated populace is good for everyone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 Just now, Jamie_B said: An educated populace is good for everyone. Agree but not at taxpayers expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 9 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: Agree but not at taxpayers expense. "I think by far the most important bill in our whole code is that for the diffusion of knowledge among the people. No other sure foundation can be devised, for the preservation of freedom and happiness...Preach, my dear Sir, a crusade against ignorance; establish & improve the law for educating the common people. Let our countrymen know that the people alone can protect us against these evils [tyranny, oppression, etc.] and that the tax which will be paid for this purpose is not more than the thousandth part of what will be paid to kings, priests and nobles who will rise up among us if we leave the people in ignorance." - Thomas Jefferson Jefferson disagrees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 Oh my, if you're not happy with student loans just wait til you guys hear what else your tax money is paying for 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, T-Dub said: Oh my, if you're not happy with student loans just wait til you guys hear what else your tax money is paying for Border insecurity isn't an issue with these idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: Border insecurity isn't an issue with these idiots. Oh which border? The Mexican one or all of them, because I have some startling news about the border security in, eg, Minnesota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, T-Dub said: Oh which border? The Mexican one or all of them, because I have some startling news about the border security in, eg, Minnesota. Is a huge problem But ok go ahead with your views on Illegal aliens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 Just now, claptonrocks said: Is a huge problem But ok go ahead with your views on Illegal aliens. we should definitely keep an eye out for this guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 4 minutes ago, T-Dub said: we should definitely keep an eye out for this guy Is that Biden? No..he's not asleep at the wheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shebengal Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 16 hours ago, Jamie_B said: An educated populace is good for everyone. 16 hours ago, claptonrocks said: Agree but not at taxpayers expense. I think that the issue that needs to be addressed is the cost of college in the first place. We paid for our son's education out of our pockets. We informed him of what we had budgeted for his education and told him to make it work. Fortunately, he chose to commute and live at home the first 2 years, and with the scholarships he received, we made it work. When he decided to move out his junior year, he paid his living expenses, not us. We live less than 2 miles from OSU, so we see all of the new, fancy buildings that are built on and off campus so that they can attract "the best and the brightest" students, and some of the on campus facilities are really nice. It's a "Keeping up with the Jones" mentality, and universities could afford to build or upgrade these buildings when interest rates are low, so they did. They also instituted a requirement for sophomores to live on campus some years back, in addition to freshmen, so they had to build more living facilities. As for the new off campus facilities, some of the new apartments cost $1200.00/month for a studio apartment. Granted, everything is included, and in one building, there is a Starbucks, so the residents of that building get limited free Starbucks coffee, but who needs to pay that much for a studio apartment? It's a money grab with the university and the landlords. We also do "urban recycling" every summer when the students move out, and you should see the stuff that students throw out. Big screen TVs, laptops, unused gift cards, Xbox games, etc. That shows me that some students are accruing debt but not being responsible with it. I have a friend whose daughter is getting ready to go to college. She makes too much money to qualify for any kind of grants, so she is hoping that her daughter doesn't get into OSU so she can go to a local community college for the first 2 years and save some money, and then transfer into OSU. That's horrible, I know. I will admit that there are some people who honestly need help, but they usually qualify for Pell grants and similar grants. So, explain again to me why my tax dollars should go to pay for some other kid's Starbucks? I don't even drink it myself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 Take a look at the following graphs in this article See 20 Years of Tuition Growth at National Universities (usnews.com) This is unfeasible. We can discuss whether or not colleges have things they don't need, I'm fine with that. But we need to come to the realization that without some sort of education higher than high school (and I put trade schools in on this) it's very likely you will be living in poverty The world is not what it was when Boomers could get a HS Degree and have a house and a family. (There are all sorts of reasons why) We can also discuss if the 'extras' are the reason for this increase in tuition, and I might agree to a small extent, but we also should be looking at this Funding Down, Tuition Up | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (cbpp.org) Then let's talk about how having "Free" college isnt as expensive as people think. Tuition-Free College Could Cost Less Than You Think - The New York Times (nytimes.com) I don't think that Room and Board should be included in our subsidizing colleges, just tuition. I lived at home and went to community college then state school in the county above mine. I agree SheBengal, there is no good reason to force kids to live on campus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 6 hours ago, Shebengal said: So, explain again to me why my tax dollars should go to pay for some other kid's Starbucks? I don't even drink it myself. Think you're mad at the wrong person here. Why should it go to the coach's million dollar salary? OSU is a for-profit institution whose main product is football games. Education is a side-hustle. The problem is we're giving the money to 19 year olds expecting them to then live like monks and subsidize the college. Why don't we give the money directly to the college, let the student attend for free and work at Starbuck's for their incidentals instead? Well, we very much do give them our tax money directly, but the university operates as a for-profit enterprise as both a directly & indirectly-funded public institution. Those profits go to paying a football coach millions of dollars instead of investors but I'd say he's profiting quite nicely, as are the dean and upper faculty. It's a state college yet, to put it differently, also kind of a football franchise. Why isn't OSU self-sufficient? It's not much different on that level than the Bengals needing a tax incentive for a stadium. It's just one of many examples where we've embraced a sort of shell game version of socialism. We give money to the consumer instead of the company making the product we expect them to buy. It's publicly-funded pseudo-capitalism to maintain the illusion of a free market because we think that's somehow morally superior to that dirty word "socialism". Or, we allow the business to not pay taxes, or spend billions in tax money on infrastructure that only serves to support that business - to the extent of demolishing low-income housing or public-serving infrastructure when it gets in the way - and call that capitalism, as a virtue. Then we get mad at the consumer when they choose to spend that money in a way we didn't intend: gripe about the person buying filets with foodstamp instead of heavily subsidized agribusiness (at one point most-subsidized sector but IDK if that still stands with all the arms dealing going on) ,again operating for-profit and running up their margins during an epidemic. We're very invested in the idea of that food-stamp consumer having choice in a market so long as they make the "right" one. Which, again, is a for-profit transaction that is often itself being taxed. Education, health care, housing, feeding the poor.. All these things are heavily socialized and publicly subsidized but again in a way that maintains that illusion. It's incredibly wasteful as you point out, but the alternative means a handful of people can't get filthy rich "selling" those things to us anymore. Therefore they've convinced us "socialism BAD" because it's this exact wasteful roundabout form of socialism that's making them rich. Excuse the wall of text but as you can tell it's something I've thought about a lot, both as a taxpayer and as a former 19 year old student who desperately needed a quadruple espresso if he was going to make it through work after class and didn't have near enough time to run home in between. Ya know? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shebengal Posted January 25 Report Share Posted January 25 20 hours ago, T-Dub said: Think you're mad at the wrong person here. Why should it go to the coach's million dollar salary? OSU is a for-profit institution whose main product is football games. Education is a side-hustle. The problem is we're giving the money to 19 year olds expecting them to then live like monks and subsidize the college. Why don't we give the money directly to the college, let the student attend for free and work at Starbuck's for their incidentals instead? Well, we very much do give them our tax money directly, but the university operates as a for-profit enterprise as both a directly & indirectly-funded public institution. Those profits go to paying a football coach millions of dollars instead of investors but I'd say he's profiting quite nicely, as are the dean and upper faculty. It's a state college yet, to put it differently, also kind of a football franchise. Why isn't OSU self-sufficient? I agree that my tax dollars shouldn't go towards the coach's salary, and if you believe the blather from the Athletic Dept., it doesn't. The Athletic Dept. is self supporting, blah, blah, blah. Maybe funding educations the way you suggest is the way to go, but then the university couldn't collect exorbitant room and board from the students who can't commute under your plan. Heaven forbid! Here in Columbus, if you are a Columbus City School graduate, you get free tuition to Columbus State for 2 years to complete an associate's degree. It's a private foundation/public partnership with the school district that pays for it, so not totally funded by tax dollars. There's no one "good" or "bad" answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 25 Report Share Posted January 25 2 hours ago, Shebengal said: I agree that my tax dollars shouldn't go towards the coach's salary, and if you believe the blather from the Athletic Dept., it doesn't. The Athletic Dept. is self supporting, blah, blah, blah. Maybe funding educations the way you suggest is the way to go, but then the university couldn't collect exorbitant room and board from the students who can't commute under your plan. Heaven forbid! Here in Columbus, if you are a Columbus City School graduate, you get free tuition to Columbus State for 2 years to complete an associate's degree. It's a private foundation/public partnership with the school district that pays for it, so not totally funded by tax dollars. There's no one "good" or "bad" answer. I can believe the Buckeyes are self-sufficient as an athletic program.. But they have to operate as part of a public university rather than a pro football franchise which I see as something of a disconnect. I would think the nationally-televised football program should be able to pay for a hell of a lot more than their own athletic department. Ohio residents are funding the university part so the football team doesn't have to worry too much about being a college football team. Of course this is hardly unique to OSU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyInDC Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 On 1/24/2024 at 12:52 AM, Jamie_B said: I'm completely fine with paying other people's debts with it. Looks like that education has finally paid off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 3 hours ago, CincyInDC said: Looks like that education has finally paid off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 The Idea That the Republicans Can Become “The Party of The Working Class” Is Beyond Absurd A nice deep dive with some nuance. Good read. *** Personally, I won't be voting for either sociopath. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 So California Assembly wants to pass bills where black children can go to all black schools.. These idiots want to segregate the young ones.. It's dark humor what this state comes up with. insanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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