claptonrocks Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 1 minute ago, spicoli said: Lol 11 minutes ago, T-Dub said: WDYM? I said I respect the hustle. I'm certainly not going to change anything. But it's definitely a hustle. Anyway. I don't work for PFF but I'm confident in saying there's not a single spot on the OL that couldn't potentially be upgraded. I wouldn't argue that any of the 5 are solidly above average. I like Karras for the attitude but he's not a world-beater and it's kind of downhill from there. Allright then.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 20 minutes ago, spicoli said: Try using your own eyes. Focus solely on him and just watch. The kid has turned himself into a solid player. Fuck PFF. I've watched him play enough to see he's no mauler...JAG imo. Do you watch him play every snap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicoli Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 17 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: I've watched him play enough to see he's no mauler...JAG imo. Do you watch him play every snap? I go back and watch every game. Yes, I’ve watched almost every snap. He started slow but was playing well by the end of year. Fuck PFF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 40 minutes ago, spicoli said: I go back and watch every game. Yes, I’ve watched almost every snap. He started slow but was playing well by the end of year. Fuck PFF. Ok... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicoli Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 2 hours ago, spicoli said: Someone at PFF is losing their job over Strouds rating. Id grade it high 90s.. Love to hear the answer why he got a mediocre grade. The rest of the QBs listed seem right 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 2 hours ago, claptonrocks said: Love to hear the answer why he got a mediocre grade. Because there is no algorithm. They're just making up numbers and cashing checks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, T-Dub said: Because there is no algorithm. They're just making up numbers and cashing checks. I sure that's it....🥱 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, claptonrocks said: I sure that's it....🥱 Hey I'll be happy to change my opinion just as soon as someone explains how "the algorithm" calculated a 0.5 difference between Stafford and Josh Allen. For the record, Stafford's stat line: 69%CMP, 367 yds, 2 TDs, 2 sacks, no turnovers. Lost 23-24 Allen: 70%CMP, 4 TDs including one rushing, 2 sacks, no turnovers. Won 31-17. So we're to believe despite scoring twice as many points, that only moved the needle .5 in their super secret algorithm - in favor of the losing QB. 👌 I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the notoriously useless QB Rating also ranked them one point apart. Next-gen stats! Until they show the math I'm going to assume they're making it up as they go. 💰 source: https://www.pro-football-reference.com Really excellent and easy to use stats site based on actual football plays 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esjbh2 Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 4 minutes ago, T-Dub said: Hey I'll be happy to change my opinion just as soon as someone explains how "the algorithm" calculated a 0.5 difference between Stafford and Josh Allen. Until they show the math I'm going to assume they're making it up as they go. 💰 Not really disagreeing with your opinion of PFF, but disagreeing with your reasons. I'm definitely no fan of PFF, but it seems to me if they were just making it up, then the they'd have "invented" a better grade for Stroud. More likely scenario is that there are actually algorithms but they simply don't tell the whole picture. IMHO it's got to be stat based somehow obviously, but stats don't tell the whole story. PFF grades may be PART of the evaluation, but not the only thing, and arguably not always the most important piece either. I'm always drawn to players with heart, in-game passion/attitude, and results when it really counts, i.e real-world context...stats/algorithms/combineNumbers/etc fail miserably in many of those cases...sometimes they are in sync but often times they do not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 8 minutes ago, esjbh2 said: Not really disagreeing with your opinion of PFF, but disagreeing with your reasons. I'm definitely no fan of PFF, but it seems to me if they were just making it up, then the they'd have "invented" a better grade for Stroud. More likely scenario is that there are actually algorithms but they simply don't tell the whole picture. IMHO it's got to be stat based somehow obviously, but stats don't tell the whole story. PFF grades may be PART of the evaluation, but not the only thing, and arguably not always the most important piece either. I'm always drawn to players with heart, in-game passion/attitude, and results when it really counts, i.e real-world context...stats/algorithms/combineNumbers/etc fail miserably in many of those cases...sometimes they are in sync but often times they do not. I edited the post with their stat lines from the games but the tl;dr is that it makes even less sense. I'll admit you may be right but with results like that they may as well be making them up. Which, for the record, I'm still not convinced they aren't. People tend towards lazy and that would be far easier than whatever supercomputer AI Top Secret number crunching they're selling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 34 minutes ago, T-Dub said: I edited the post with their stat lines from the games but the tl;dr is that it makes even less sense. I'll admit you may be right but with results like that they may as well be making them up. Which, for the record, I'm still not convinced they aren't. People tend towards lazy and that would be far easier than whatever supercomputer AI Top Secret number crunching they're selling. Debbie Downer ...alkways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 Just now, claptonrocks said: Debbie Downer ...alkways The fuck? PFF means that much to you? Weird take but ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shebengal Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, esjbh2 said: I'm always drawn to players with heart, in-game passion/attitude, and results when it really counts, i.e real-world context...stats/algorithms/combineNumbers/etc fail miserably in many of those cases...sometimes they are in sync but often times they do not. Not to mention in-game intelligence and leadership. Hence, the reason why I would take Burrow over Herbert every time. (Which I can't seem to get through to my hubby no matter how hard I try.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 34 minutes ago, T-Dub said: The fuck? PFF means that much to you? Weird take but ok. Seems it means much to you with all the constant negativity you infuse every time it's mentioned. But ok .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 7 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: Seems it means much to you with all the constant negativity you infuse every time it's mentioned. But ok .. Challenging a source isn't "negativity" just because you have some feelings about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 10 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: Seems it means much to you with all the constant negativity you infuse every time it's mentioned. But ok .. Explain to me why every. NFL and over 100 colleges subscribed to their site? Guess everyone is stupid but you and Spicoli... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 1 minute ago, claptonrocks said: Explain to me why every. NFL and over 100 colleges subscribed to their site? Guess everyone is stupid but you and Spicoli... Yo Browning's GF has WAAAY more than 132 subscribers but IDK if I'd trust her math either. Do either of them rate the top 20 OL for the draft or can we move on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 4 minutes ago, T-Dub said: Yo Browning's GF has WAAAY more than 132 subscribers but IDK if I'd trust her math either. Do either of them rate the top 20 OL for the draft or can we move on... Pfft rated all college players for the draft...each position.. But let's ....Move On...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 PFF has an explanation of their methodology. I'd guess Stroud got a lower rating for making easier completions since the Browns couldn't cover his receivers. He also missed a wide open Nico Collins for an easy TD which probably dinged his score. Dak Prescott had big numbers in his game but not a great grade either, which makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 Here's a Walter Football breakdown of their top OTs: https://walterfootball.com/draft2024OT.php The way they talk about Mims makes him sound well worth the risk. The OL drafting has been so bad anyway they may as well roll the dice on the highest risk/reward prospect available. That's assuming he doesn't show up at the combine and go to the top of everyone's board. And again, sign FA's to hold the fort if the magic draft beans don't sprout. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 15 minutes ago, T-Dub said: Here's a Walter Football breakdown of their top OTs: https://walterfootball.com/draft2024OT.php The way they talk about Mims makes him sound well worth the risk. The OL drafting has been so bad anyway they may as well roll the dice on the highest risk/reward prospect available. That's assuming he doesn't show up at the combine and go to the top of everyone's board. And again, sign FA's to hold the fort if the magic draft beans don't sprout. I'm big on drafting Mims. Huge..well proportioned.. And ..athletic.. His 4.88 forty is going to impress teams at the combine.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esjbh2 Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 31 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: Explain to me why every. NFL and over 100 colleges subscribed to their site? Guess everyone is stupid but you and Spicoli... I'm somewhere in between you and T-Dub/Spicoli on this subject...I like to be like Switzerland :)...but I will say that PFF may be just fine as "A SOURCE" for a player's talent evaluation and hence why it has NFL and college subscriptions, but some people seem to think it is "THE DEFINITIVE SOURCE"...BIG difference. Lots of other things need to be considered, game context, team context, heart/passion, performance when game is on the line, and like SheBengal says things like football/game IQ, leadership, etc. I'll use Sam Hubbard as an example. He's not a guy that shows up on the stat sheet like Trey does and prolly doesn't have great numbers on PFF and he's been said to be an under-performer in another thread here and maybe would even be cut if on another team. That's just udder BS in my mind...his value goes way beyond sack numbers and PFF grades...I sure as hell don't want to lose him. OLine is another glaring PFF example...maybe a player has a diminished PFF grade because of the team/game context dictates that he play next to one of worst linemen in the league, or because the coach is using a scheme that doesn't match the skillset of the players. I'm not saying that's always the case, just citing examples of how PFF grades and stats can be very deceiving. "Lies, damn lies, and statistics" -Mark Twain 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 2 hours ago, T-Dub said: Here's a Walter Football breakdown of their top OTs: https://walterfootball.com/draft2024OT.php The way they talk about Mims makes him sound well worth the risk. The OL drafting has been so bad anyway they may as well roll the dice on the highest risk/reward prospect available. That's assuming he doesn't show up at the combine and go to the top of everyone's board. And again, sign FA's to hold the fort if the magic draft beans don't sprout. Mims has all the tools, the only concern is the limited games played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 1 minute ago, Jamie_B said: Mims has all the tools, the only concern is the limited games played. Id take him if he's there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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