Randle P McMurphy Posted August 29 Report Share Posted August 29 8 hours ago, GoBengals said: sacks allowed doesnt really tell the story, as we have discssed a gang of times around here. how many sakcs did mixon give up? how many sacks did joe take because he couldnt even move in the pocket for 6 games? i mean there is a literal list of where each guy is ranked among their peers at positions. only volson is an embarrassment. which no one wants to talk about for some reason. Sacks don't really tell the story. Literal next 2 questions, how many sacks? How many sacks? haha Pollack is also the run game coordinator. So fine, throw Mixon in there too. First six games of 2023. Game 1: Cleveland 2 sacks Game 2: Ravens 1 sack Game 3: Rams 2 sacks Game 4: Titans 4 sacks Game 5: Cardinals 2 sacks Game 6: Seattle 3 sacks. So 14 sacks in the first 6 games. Game 7: 49'ers 3 sacks Game 8: Bills 1 sack Game 9: Texans 4 sacks Game 10: Ravens Burrow leaves game in 2nd quarter with injury. 2 sacks before injury. 10 sacks in 3.5 games healthy. 2.3 sacks per game with calf injury. 2.9 sacks per game after injury. So if Joe had completed the season he was on pace for being sacked 41 times. That's after being sacked the most in '21 and '22. Let's take a look at that list. Orlando Brown ranked 45th out of 81 tackles. Volson ranked 42nd out of 79 guards. Karras ranked 15th out of 36 centers. Cappa ranked 24th out of 79 guards. Trent Brown ranked 11th out of 81 tackles. (Didn't play a full season in 2023). And Volson is the only guy on the line that Pollack has developed/coached since he's been drafted/in the league. Brown Jr., Karras and Cappa have regressed under Pollack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted August 29 Report Share Posted August 29 14 hours ago, GoBengals said: sacks allowed doesnt really tell the story, as we have discssed a gang of times around here. how many sakcs did mixon give up? how many sacks did joe take because he couldnt even move in the pocket for 6 games? i mean there is a literal list of where each guy is ranked among their peers at positions. only volson is an embarrassment. which no one wants to talk about for some reason. While I'd agree it doesn't tell the whole story, sacks allowed is a real number. It's a much more valid basis for comparison than some nebulous PFF ratings based on.. well, who knows what exactly. They say they're all average but they are allowing a very below (higher) average # of sacks. I'd say that points to a failure with PFF grading rather than invalidating sacks as a metric. However, we could instead dig into why all of the free agents have seen their PFF grades decline as Bengals. Is this also Joe Burrow's fault? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleEarl Posted August 29 Report Share Posted August 29 18 hours ago, Le Tigre said: You see what you wish to see…because your belief in his perfection is perfect. Blaming the line is too easy. Watch some film. He still needs work. Is it lack of pocket awareness, or his stubborness in not giving up on a play? I would lobby for the latter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted August 30 Report Share Posted August 30 5 hours ago, UncleEarl said: Is it lack of pocket awareness, or his stubborness in not giving up on a play? I would lobby for the latter. It is that, of course. It may also be that there are no designed roll-outs or plays to move the pocket. Will look for film to illustrate some bad habits—at least that I have seen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dex Posted August 30 Report Share Posted August 30 On 8/28/2024 at 6:42 AM, Le Tigre said: I have said this more times than I have hairs on my head…but few wish to acknowledge it: part of St Joseph’s problems with getting hit is his lack of pocket awareness. His escape abilities are marginal. He is very good at maintaining downfield concentration, but he doesn’t have the “feel the pressure” instincts. Hence, he gets hit more…and more directly. Burrow has plenty of pocket awareness. His escape abilities are not marginal. Neither Burrow or Mahomes mind pressure off the edge so much. What they hate is when the middle of the pocket collapses. If a QB wants to step up and roll out to create time for explosive plays, the middle of the line needs to hold and sometimes it actually helps if the EDGE rusher gets penetration. Then the OT can seal the rusher off behind the QB as he moves in that direction. Mahomes may not have the best OTS around, but he has the best IOL in the league. The pocket not collapses is what allows him to step up and create more time. Burrow does NOT have anywhere close to the IOL around. He has no chance to step up in the pocket if the DTs are getting penetration. If the Bengals had matched the KC's offer for Cincinnati native Joe Thuney, they may already have a Super Bowl ring and maybe KC would have one less. But the Bengals decided 15M a year was too much to pay for an All-Pro guard,. So the Chiefs said "Thank you, suckers" and haven't looked back since. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted August 31 Report Share Posted August 31 On 8/29/2024 at 10:25 PM, dex said: Burrow has plenty of pocket awareness. His escape abilities are not marginal. Neither Burrow or Mahomes mind pressure off the edge so much. What they hate is when the middle of the pocket collapses. If a QB wants to step up and roll out to create time for explosive plays, the middle of the line needs to hold and sometimes it actually helps if the EDGE rusher gets penetration. Then the OT can seal the rusher off behind the QB as he moves in that direction. Mahomes may not have the best OTS around, but he has the best IOL in the league. The pocket not collapses is what allows him to step up and create more time. Burrow does NOT have anywhere close to the IOL around. He has no chance to step up in the pocket if the DTs are getting penetration. If the Bengals had matched the KC's offer for Cincinnati native Joe Thuney, they may already have a Super Bowl ring and maybe KC would have one less. But the Bengals decided 15M a year was too much to pay for an All-Pro guard,. So the Chiefs said "Thank you, suckers" and haven't looked back since. Volson...6'6 315 lbs.. Played RT..never G.. at a small school. Drafted and inserted as the starting LG... How much time would you need to go from RT to LG with no training there after drafted? Pollack took a long shot putting the kid at a foreign position. Maybe year 3 he's figured it out. (Volson not Pollack)... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicoli Posted August 31 Report Share Posted August 31 https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2024/08/31/bengals-praised-finally-serious-protecting-joe-burrow/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicoli Posted August 31 Report Share Posted August 31 32 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: Volson...6'6 315 lbs.. Played RT..never G.. at a small school. Drafted and inserted as the starting LG... How much time would you need to go from RT to LG with no training there after drafted? Pollack took a long shot putting the kid at a foreign position. Maybe year 3 he's figured it out. (Volson not Pollack)... There’s nothing wrong with Volson. He was actually playing excellent football second half of the season last year. He’ll be a stalwart on this line for years to come, guaranteed 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted August 31 Report Share Posted August 31 28 minutes ago, spicoli said: There’s nothing wrong with Volson. He was actually playing excellent football second half of the season last year. He’ll be a stalwart on this line for years to come, guaranteed Agree.. Time is Now to do it.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randle P McMurphy Posted August 31 Report Share Posted August 31 1 hour ago, spicoli said: https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2024/08/31/bengals-praised-finally-serious-protecting-joe-burrow/ Cutting an obvious bust should have been common sense, not "praise". Cutting Collins because of his lingering injury as opposed to poor play is entirely different and they didn't let Jonah walk until after the 2023 season. They moved him from LT to RT after signing Brown Jr. I mean if the author of the article can't even get it right that Jonah wasn't let go during the 2023 offseason and was moved to RT, how credible is he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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