A Look at PFF Free agent ranks in positions of need.

[-GoBengals-]

Cornerbacks:

 

 

DT:

 

EDGE:

 

 

[-GoBengals-]

Guards:

 

Zeitler on this list hurts my entire soul

[-GoBengals-]

Safety:

 

[-GoBengals-]

WR

 

[KA14_HOF]

This is like looking around FAO Schwarz as a kid. You want one of everything, but know full well all you're going to end up with is a Happy Meal on the way home.

[sparky151]

Most of those guys are old or not that great. Trey Smith would be a good replacement for Cappa. Even the old safeties would be upgrades over Stone or Bell. The CBs would be short term patches. But we got production from Eli Apple who was also a short term patch. 

[T-Dub]

2 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Most of those guys are old or not that great. Trey Smith would be a good replacement for Cappa. Even the old safeties would be upgrades over Stone or Bell. The CBs would be short term patches. But we got production from Eli Apple who was also a short term patch. 

 

Whole lot of B list edge guys to choose from but I think they'll stick with Murphy & other potential draft picks. 

[Randle P McMurphy]

3 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Most of those guys are old or not that great. Trey Smith would be a good replacement for Cappa. Even the old safeties would be upgrades over Stone or Bell. The CBs would be short term patches. But we got production from Eli Apple who was also a short term patch. 

 

"Not that great," is a 1000% better than what's on this defense!  I'd take Alim McNeil over ANY DT on the Bengals roster in a heartbeat!

I'd take Holland or Hufanga over any Safety on the Bengals roster.  Trey Smith is going to be deemed to expensive for the Bengals but

Teven Jenkins might be affordable and would be better than Volson or Cappa at Guard.  Jenkins is 26 and the other 3 I mentioned are

24.  

[T-Dub]

Saw elsewhere that Dehner's reporting Ford is the new LG, at least for the rest of the season.  Can't imagine that's a long term plan but Volson's to the bench.

 

File under "too little, too late".

[|High School Harry|]

11 hours ago, T-Dub said:

Saw elsewhere that Dehner's reporting Ford is the new LG, at least for the rest of the season.  Can't imagine that's a long term plan but Volson's to the bench.

 

File under "too little, too late".

File under "Scapegoat"

[texbengal]

Some good names there and of course, some retreads for sure. ‘Course, some guys might get tagged in some way (Jevon Holland, possibly Godwin, etc.). 
 

That said, DeMarcus Lawrence had some injury issues this summer but he can stil play at a high level, even at his age. An emotional leader and a guy who can still rush the passer and also play the run, and he plays hard. Trey Smith was a guy the Chiefs stole on day 3 several years ago who has been a starter on a very good line from day one. He was a guy I really wanted the to take and on day 3, I thought he was a no-brainer. He had some medical history concerns but to my knowledge they haven’t recurred. He’d be a nice get as the Bengals don’t have a guy close to his level on the interior. 
 

Hufanga I like as well… makes plays, and a very physical player. Bengals’ D needs some tone setters.

[Jamie_B]

14 hours ago, T-Dub said:

Saw elsewhere that Dehner's reporting Ford is the new LG, at least for the rest of the season.  Can't imagine that's a long term plan but Volson's to the bench.

 

File under "too little, too late".

 

Begs the question, do we spend money on a guard in FA or will we draft one?

[KA14_HOF]

19 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

 

Do we spend money on a guard in FA or will we draft one?

 

Yes

[claptonrocks]

26 minutes ago, KA14_HOF said:

 

Yes

Agree..

I did a mock draft and chose

1st Rd....DT  Mason Graham ..

2nd Rd.....G. Tate Rutledge.

 

 

Yes sign FAs but get young highly thought of

players in the trenches as well..

 

I'll stand by that for now

[claptonrocks]

20 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Most of those guys are old or not that great. Trey Smith would be a good replacement for Cappa. Even the old safeties would be upgrades over Stone or Bell. The CBs would be short term patches. But we got production from Eli Apple who was also a short term patch. 

Trey Smith would be a great signing but can't see the Chefs letting him go.

He won't come cheap regardless who signes him ..

[-GoBengals-]

21 hours ago, KA14_HOF said:

This is like looking around FAO Schwarz as a kid. You want one of everything, but know full well all you're going to end up with is a Happy Meal on the way home.

 

lol, this is the oldest sentence i have read in a while. im 43 and i have no idea what FAO shwartz is, but i assume a toy store?

 

20 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Most of those guys are old or not that great. Trey Smith would be a good replacement for Cappa. Even the old safeties would be upgrades over Stone or Bell. The CBs would be short term patches. But we got production from Eli Apple who was also a short term patch. 

 

yea there isnt a bengals filter for these lists, im sure there is a site to create a custom list "no one over 28"+"no one in top 5 paid at position"+"willing to play in and live in kentucky/ohio"+"doesnt have an agent who thinks the bengals need to overpay to get free agents like its 2003"

 

18 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

Whole lot of B list edge guys to choose from but I think they'll stick with Murphy & other potential draft picks. 

 

only way they do that i think is if they think Hubbard is still solid post injury recovery, murphy has been a nightmare.

 

16 hours ago, Randle P McMurphy said:

 

"Not that great," is a 1000% better than what's on this defense!  I'd take Alim McNeil over ANY DT on the Bengals roster in a heartbeat!

I'd take Holland or Hufanga over any Safety on the Bengals roster.  Trey Smith is going to be deemed to expensive for the Bengals but

Teven Jenkins might be affordable and would be better than Volson or Cappa at Guard.  Jenkins is 26 and the other 3 I mentioned are

24.  

 

Volson has been replaced, likely for good, will be a matter if they think Cappas performance is based on his surroundings or his age (turns 30 in a few weeks). I assume ford is currently in his interview to be the starting LG for next season role for the next 5 weeks. Its possible there are no noteable additions to the Guard roles. while a proble, you face the lack of talent in the talent pool as a whole plus the 6 bigger problems you have to address. aside from a late round pick or a guy falling (unlikely), there are about 40 guards who rank above a 63.0 PFF pass block grade in the entire league. which is about an average grade, so 20/32 teams can have 2 average or better guards. which leaves more than a third of the league with zero average or better guards on their roster, let alone starting.

 

15 hours ago, T-Dub said:

Saw elsewhere that Dehner's reporting Ford is the new LG, at least for the rest of the season.  Can't imagine that's a long term plan but Volson's to the bench.

 

File under "too little, too late".

 

as the biggest caller out of Volson being trash for years and years, i am also familiar with the scarcity in the lineman pool at each position, see data from above quote response. problem is our former good guard also sucked this year. if you split the 40 decent or better guards one per team then only 8 teams can have 2 good guards, we just happened to not be in the top 25% of guard talent on roster. with everyone else almost... but Cappa being Crappa, we are in a pickle. i hope ford can grow into the LG role over the last month or so of the season and make it a lesser need that it currently seems to be.

 

4 hours ago, High School Harry said:

File under "Scapegoat"

 

not sure how you see it as anything but "volson sucks so we gotta try the guy behind him now" scapegoat for what? you think they blame the horrors of this .....top 6 scoring offense..... on Volson? wtf are you talking about?

 

Volson sucks so he got replaced soon as OBJ returned, whose a scapegoat? what are they a scapegoat for? not a single part of this is clear.

 

1 hour ago, Jamie_B said:

 

Begs the question, do we spend money on a guard in FA or will we draft one?

 

possible neither. id actually bet neither, unless you could like a 5th round pick. no way we can use the capital in the first two rounds on a guard i dont think, with safety, edge, maybe WR, maybe LB, Corner, etc in such need.

 

43 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

Agree..

I did a mock draft and chose

1st Rd....DT  Mason Graham ..

2nd Rd.....G. Tate Rutledge.

 

 

Yes sign FAs but get young highly thought of

players in the trenches as well..

 

I'll stand by that for now

 

man another DT in the top 3 rounds would be a lot of capital invested, im not against it but they HAVE to be a day 1 clear starter monster pick. then to throw a 2nd round pick at your like 8th biggest problem( coming from the president and CEO of the Volson hate club). those are two picks that better be world beaters or you fucked yourself.

 

39 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

Trey Smith would be a great signing but can't see the Chefs letting him go.

He won't come cheap regardless who signes him ..

 

if the chiefs have an early exit from the playoffs, which is possible as they almost lost every single game they played, i think youll see them dedicate more resources back to offense, as the defense has carried their ass almost the entire season, and Kelce is getting older and older. But they arent keen on letting any talent leave for free so theyll certainly want to keep him around.

[T-Dub]

There will be several guards headed to free agency, any one of which is likely better than Ford. After that there will be a dozen or more in the draft, at least half of which are likely to be better than Ford. A few of them will be genuinely good players in their own right.

 

If he's the best they can do it's because they can't tell the difference.

 

 

[claptonrocks]

17 minutes ago, GoBengals said:

 

lol, this is the oldest sentence i have read in a while. im 43 and i have no idea what FAO shwartz is, but i assume a toy store?

 

 

yea there isnt a bengals filter for these lists, im sure there is a site to create a custom list "no one over 28"+"no one in top 5 paid at position"+"willing to play in and live in kentucky/ohio"+"doesnt have an agent who thinks the bengals need to overpay to get free agents like its 2003"

 

 

only way they do that i think is if they think Hubbard is still solid post injury recovery, murphy has been a nightmare.

 

 

Volson has been replaced, likely for good, will be a matter if they think Cappas performance is based on his surroundings or his age (turns 30 in a few weeks). I assume ford is currently in his interview to be the starting LG for next season role for the next 5 weeks. Its possible there are no noteable additions to the Guard roles. while a proble, you face the lack of talent in the talent pool as a whole plus the 6 bigger problems you have to address. aside from a late round pick or a guy falling (unlikely), there are about 40 guards who rank above a 63.0 PFF pass block grade in the entire league. which is about an average grade, so 20/32 teams can have 2 average or better guards. which leaves more than a third of the league with zero average or better guards on their roster, let alone starting.

 

 

as the biggest caller out of Volson being trash for years and years, i am also familiar with the scarcity in the lineman pool at each position, see data from above quote response. problem is our former good guard also sucked this year. if you split the 40 decent or better guards one per team then only 8 teams can have 2 good guards, we just happened to not be in the top 25% of guard talent on roster. with everyone else almost... but Cappa being Crappa, we are in a pickle. i hope ford can grow into the LG role over the last month or so of the season and make it a lesser need that it currently seems to be.

 

 

not sure how you see it as anything but "volson sucks so we gotta try the guy behind him now" scapegoat for what? you think they blame the horrors of this .....top 6 scoring offense..... on Volson? wtf are you talking about?

 

Volson sucks so he got replaced soon as OBJ returned, whose a scapegoat? what are they a scapegoat for? not a single part of this is clear.

 

 

possible neither. id actually bet neither, unless you could like a 5th round pick. no way we can use the capital in the first two rounds on a guard i dont think, with safety, edge, maybe WR, maybe LB, Corner, etc in such need.

 

 

man another DT in the top 3 rounds would be a lot of capital invested, im not against it but they HAVE to be a day 1 clear starter monster pick. then to throw a 2nd round pick at your like 8th biggest problem( coming from the president and CEO of the Volson hate club). those are two picks that better be world beaters or you fucked yourself.

 

 

if the chiefs have an early exit from the playoffs, which is possible as they almost lost every single game they played, i think youll see them dedicate more resources back to offense, as the defense has carried their ass almost the entire season, and Kelce is getting older and older. But they arent keen on letting any talent leave for free so theyll certainly want to keep him around.

I realize their drafting another DT in RD1 seems over picking at the position.

I like Jenkins.

I d like to have Hill back..

Jackson may be good .or not.

I think sticking Graham next to Jenks would help plug gaps upfront.

I believe Rutledge would take a starting spot like Volson did year one only he's a better prospect imo.

Yeah it's a crapshoot but our lines need to be addressed with 

players that could start in year one.

[Jamie_B]

1 hour ago, GoBengals said:

 

possible neither. id actually bet neither, unless you could like a 5th round pick. no way we can use the capital in the first two rounds on a guard i dont think, with safety, edge, maybe WR, maybe LB, Corner, etc in such need.

 

 

The way I read the tea leaves on things like this are "who was rumored, or positions rumored" during the trade deadline, and who has been benched since.

 

That tells me DE, CB, (two positions we were rumored to be looking at in the trade deadline) and G (Volson) are all on the table.

[KA14_HOF]

1 hour ago, GoBengals said:

 

lol, this is the oldest sentence i have read in a while. im 43 and i have no idea what FAO shwartz is, but i assume a toy store?

 

 

At my last physical my doctor carbon dated me from the Triassic period, so "old" is often all I got, though occasionally I dabble in "stick in the mud" or "curmudgeonly."

 

You're correct. FAO Schwarz was/is a high-end toy store. It's where Tom Hanks played "Heart & Soul" with Robbert Loggia by hopping on the keys of the giant floor-piano in the movie "Big."

[T-Dub]

4 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

Begs the question, do we spend money on a guard in FA or will we draft one?

 

 

I'm going to echo others here & say both.  Can't bet next season on some rookie kid that's probably off doing keg stands right now.  Every draft pick should be competing with someone for a starting spot, even if it's largely symbolic and they take over on the second day of training camp.  With the way this team drafts they need to hedge their bets. 

[Jamie_B]

32 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

I'm going to echo others here & say both.  Can't bet next season on some rookie kid that's probably off doing keg stands right now.  Every draft pick should be competing with someone for a starting spot, even if it's largely symbolic and they take over on the second day of training camp.  With the way this team drafts they need to hedge their bets. 

 

 

When you are drafting #9 overall and have a QB that's not on his rookie contract (along with a WR that is about to be paid the highest salary for a WR) you're going to have to manage things in ways that might have you starting a #9 overall pick right away.

[T-Dub]

1 hour ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

When you are drafting #9 overall and have a QB that's not on his rookie contract (along with a WR that is about to be paid the highest salary for a WR) you're going to have to manage things in ways that might have you starting a #9 overall pick right away.

 

Y'all gotta quit reminding me of John Ross #9 overall btw.

Expect any first round pick to be starting or playing a big role when camp breaks.  If not for some reason, like your GM can't see beyond combine stats, there better be a Cody Ford or "retread"  in reserve.  Maybe they've lost a step (or two) but they've proven they know how to get the job done.  Just in case.  More to the point, if it's not a first or early 2nd round pick.. Like using #41 on a position that rarely warrants a top 10-ish pick - guard, DB, TE/WR.. and they made need a redshirt year.. There has to be someone better than Rankins/retread in their spot. 

 

They wrote an easy out into his contract, just a cool $2M 😆, so they knew the risk.   Jenkins looks pretty good but has also played like a rookie, McKinnley Jackson, who knows, maybe next year maybe not, he's an Aggie and he certainly wasn't ready to step in for Hill right away.  Those guys got forced into starting & that's a big nail in the coffin. Can't have that.

 

Which bring us back to "both".  With Cappa and Karras both slowing down, if not outright struggling, interior OL can't be "either/or".  I'd be looking to draft C/G & hope they can play next to Ted while he finishes out his contract. Worst case that's some IOL depth, where I'd look for a reasonable short-term starter & maybe a later developmental pick. 

 

The rest of the reported $65M I throw at Ja'Marr & defensive FA's to go along with the remaining draft picks.  The D is the problem so if they trust Lou to fix it they need to give him every opportunity to get that done. They've been such a tire fire I'd hope to move on but it's a question of who would take the job.  Either way defense has to be the focus.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[-GoBengals-]

11 hours ago, T-Dub said:

There will be several guards headed to free agency, any one of which is likely better than Ford. After that there will be a dozen or more in the draft, at least half of which are likely to be better than Ford. A few of them will be genuinely good players in their own right.

 

If he's the best they can do it's because they can't tell the difference.

 

 

 

if there were 6 good guards coming into the league through the draft the league would have 30 new good guards every 5 years, and there would be 60 good guards in the league, as good linemen have 10+ year careers easily, so there will maybe be 2-4 good guards entering into the nfl, and some might be in the 5th round, however if meerly upgrading over, say, volson, is the goal, you are correct, which is what you said, but i feel a never ending need after 20 years of hearing people say stuff like "why didnt they fix the line in the offseason" and the obvious answer being "there arent very many good linemen in the entire league, wtf are you talking about" i just feel obligated to point out the absolute shit show crap shoot the draft really is. 

 

we all see the cool college names drafted and think all these teams got steals, then see some of our picks fail, and for WHATEVER reason think we are the only team with failed draft picks, like the cum gushing over TE washington, he has yet to record a 50 yard game, and has 2 career touchdowns, averaging like 8 yards per game. 

 

TONS of guys dont pan out. even the nfl hype train keeps pumping, if i recall in the game sunday the announcers said something like "an thats why you draft a horse like washington at TE" when get got a few extra yards once. he had 1 catch for 10 yards.. 

 

the fan equation seems to be: player went to big school and know his name + he isnt on our team = he is good and we suck at drafting.

 

10 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

The way I read the tea leaves on things like this are "who was rumored, or positions rumored" during the trade deadline, and who has been benched since.

 

That tells me DE, CB, (two positions we were rumored to be looking at in the trade deadline) and G (Volson) are all on the table.

 

yea we will see if that was a "lets make a run" move they wanted to make or a "if there is a deal like Price for Hill, we are interested" type of move.. im not totally sure.

 

10 hours ago, KA14_HOF said:

 

At my last physical my doctor carbon dated me from the Triassic period, so "old" is often all I got, though occasionally I dabble in "stick in the mud" or "curmudgeonly."

 

You're correct. FAO Schwarz was/is a high-end toy store. It's where Tom Hanks played "Heart & Soul" with Robbert Loggia by hopping on the keys of the giant floor-piano in the movie "Big."

 

lol, THATS where i know it from.. makes sense.

 

6 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

Y'all gotta quit reminding me of John Ross #9 overall btw.

Expect any first round pick to be starting or playing a big role when camp breaks.  If not for some reason, like your GM can't see beyond combine stats, there better be a Cody Ford or "retread"  in reserve.  Maybe they've lost a step (or two) but they've proven they know how to get the job done.  Just in case.  More to the point, if it's not a first or early 2nd round pick.. Like using #41 on a position that rarely warrants a top 10-ish pick - guard, DB, TE/WR.. and they made need a redshirt year.. There has to be someone better than Rankins/retread in their spot. 

 

They wrote an easy out into his contract, just a cool $2M 😆, so they knew the risk.   Jenkins looks pretty good but has also played like a rookie, McKinnley Jackson, who knows, maybe next year maybe not, he's an Aggie and he certainly wasn't ready to step in for Hill right away.  Those guys got forced into starting & that's a big nail in the coffin. Can't have that.

 

Which bring us back to "both".  With Cappa and Karras both slowing down, if not outright struggling, interior OL can't be "either/or".  I'd be looking to draft C/G & hope they can play next to Ted while he finishes out his contract. Worst case that's some IOL depth, where I'd look for a reasonable short-term starter & maybe a later developmental pick. 

 

The rest of the reported $65M I throw at Ja'Marr & defensive FA's to go along with the remaining draft picks.  The D is the problem so if they trust Lou to fix it they need to give him every opportunity to get that done. They've been such a tire fire I'd hope to move on but it's a question of who would take the job.  Either way defense has to be the focus.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

really you are in a constant state of trying to fill up the troughs with more guys, as good of ones as possible, before a spot goes empty, and doing so somehow predicting injuries and progress and regression, look at DT, we all felt pretty good about Hill + Rankins and bam we drafted two guys from good programs to back them up.. like hot damn DT looking solid. we didnt have to think Rankins was a world beater, just a solid vet to fill the rolle nicely and be worth having day 1 right?  a week or 3 into the season and we are calling dudes from their couch because we are down 4 fucking DT's. and a hobbled DE, 5 of your top 6 guys are out/hurt.. trey hendrickson and some dudes trotting out there..  there is no preperation for that.

 

so sure cappa and karras arent inspiring giant success, but the group better than them isnt a big one, the ones hitting th emarket is even smaller of a group, the ones hitting the market without cashing in huge is even smaller, then the ones from that who arent 33 or some shit, there is then like 1 guy out there, so that one guy is his agent a fucking problem? does he have ANY desire to live/play in Ohio? i hear LA is nice, i hear the taxes in texas and florida are pretty slick, finding the match is tough, and doing so with two OK guys in place.. and possible C backup in lee waiting in the wings, its a tough spot to invest lots of time and assets.. especially when you look at safety, CB, DL, WR, RB, etc.. you have 2-3 draft picks that COULD equate to a starter. you have 7-9 spots that need addressed, so you need 5-7 free agents so succeed. and with the offense being one of the best in the entire NFL, i would imagine most resources will be invested in the defense, with even WR/Tee being a main focus on offense before C/G is given more resources.

 

the other really weird thing fans never consider is players not wanting to be somewhere. like look, im from Ohio, i love to visit, i may end up back there someday, maybe not, but you can see where like a millionaire 20-somethng year old may not want to live there when there are way way cooler cities to live, better weather, better taxes, family, wifes to consider, etc.. you see it constantly on all these player podcasts out there, guys talking about thier free agency years "yea i got an offer from the bulls and portland and orlando, and i sure as fuck wasnt going to portland, and if its orlando i need to get fat paid to not go to Chicago, i got family there, blah blah blah". guys have choices. and cincinnati isnt a hot spot. things i like about cincinnati: the food thats terrible for me, the lack of traffic, affordable land/housing, less white people than colorado(i like a good melting pot, food, culture, music, etc)

 

so honestly on my lists of players, when you mark off the top paid guys looking to break the band and get overpaid, guys that are too old, and guys who dont want to play in Ohio, there are probably ZERO guys left on those lists...

 

 

[sparky151]

We'll probably make changes to the defensive coaching staff (and hopefully get a new O-line coach too). In the offseason we can expect to see some of the stiffs purged. Guys like Hilton and Hubbard are popular but shouldn't be back. Nobody will miss Stone, Bell, and Rankins. Youth must be served and we should see which of the less experienced players can step up during our last 5 games. Can Tycen Anderson go from special teams stalwart to starting safety? Is Matt Lee strong enough to hold up in the trenches? What does Cedric Johnson bring in addition to great athleticism? Etc.

 

The defense is a disaster and doesn't have a lot of building blocks. But one thing that might help is if the offense were better at running the ball, especially in short yardage. We weren't able to run out the clock despite 4th quarter leads in several games. We're probably going to lose Tee this offseason and instead of hoping some rookie replaces his production, we should be looking for a better O-line. That can come from better coaching, ie hire the Eagles assistant O-line coach. We need another RB to pair with Brown. Ford is a useful, versatile backup but he shouldn't be plan A for next year. Karras and Cappa will be going into the final year of their contracts (Volson too). Maybe Lee will be Teddy K's heir, maybe not. We already know we'll need replacements for Cappa and Volson, with Ford an option but better as a backup. There's a reason he hasn't attracted interest from other teams the last couple of offseasons. 

 

So come March, IMO we should tag and trade Tee (we should be able to get at least a mid 2nd for him), extend Gesicki, try to bring in a free agent, above average starting guard, then sign and draft defenders. If we don't sign a vet guard in free agency, use a 2nd or 3rd rounder on a top prospect at the position and draft a RB with good power in round 4.