Injury lists during preseason

[whodey319]

my seats look straight at the right side of the bengals bench where willie and levi stood the whole game. Willie not in his magic boot that he has supposedly been wearing and levi jones right next to him without any signs of injury. This doesnt prove anything until you realize both have leg/foot injuries but were able to stand for 3 straight hours and at one point were dancing with each other.

Veterans are amazing liars in the preseason and im not saying they are full of shit for sure but thats what my gut says when you look at them.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='whodey319' post='530336' date='Aug 19 2007, 11:48 AM']my seats look straight at the right side of the bengals bench where willie and levi stood the whole game. Willie not in his magic boot that he has supposedly been wearing and levi jones right next to him without any signs of injury. This doesnt prove anything until you realize both have leg/foot injuries but were able to stand for 3 straight hours and at one point were dancing with each other.

Veterans are amazing liars in the preseason and im not saying they are full of shit for sure but thats what my gut says when you look at them.[/quote]


both have been doing training drills at camp too, pulling weghts all over the feild, these guys werent sippin coolaide all july/august, they are injured and trhey arnet getting a full free pass for it, i have doubts that levi wont be back but im quite sure willie will miss a game or two, if not, great, but dancing and standing is quite a bit different than clashing with 300lb mastadons for 3.5 hours.

[sois]

Id rather them say they are injured and not be injured than the other way around.

[Jamie_B]

I would love for it to be bullshit so that the backup guys get alot of time. Because Kooistra looked like crap last night, and if it is BS it will be really good.

However Im not conviced of that.

[Storm]

How in the fuck can be lying about an injury be a good thing? Who's initiating the lie? The Bengals? the Players? suggesting that they are lying about the injury is absurd.

If Willie and Levi are lying about it to get out of practice then they both need to hit the road becaue all they are doing is hurting the team.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Storm' post='530356' date='Aug 19 2007, 12:42 PM']How in the fuck can be lying about an injury be a good thing? Who's initiating the lie? The Bengals? the Players? suggesting that they are lying about the injury is absurd.

If Willie and Levi are lying about it to get out of practice then they both need to hit the road becaue all they are doing is hurting the team.[/quote]


I dont think they are lying about it either, however its not unheard of for vets who dont want to go through training camp to pull something like that. I dont paticularly care for it, but I'd be very happy in this case if thats what is happening.

But my gut tells me otherwise.

[Storm]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='530363' date='Aug 19 2007, 04:53 PM']I dont think they are lying about it either, however its not unheard of for vets who dont want to go through training camp to pull something like that. I dont paticularly care for it, but I'd be very happy in this case if thats what is happening.

But my gut tells me otherwise.[/quote]


I have a different take on it, If these players who are high profile high dollar players are selfish enough to sacrifice the betterment of the team because they are fat and lazy then thats the type of attitudes this team doesn't need as it could trickle down to younger players.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Storm' post='530365' date='Aug 19 2007, 12:59 PM']I have a different take on it, If these players who are high profile high dollar players are selfish enough to sacrifice the betterment of the team because they are fat and lazy then thats the type of attitudes this team doesn't need as it could trickle down to younger players.[/quote]


Oh I dont like it either, but its not unheard of.

[TigerJ@w]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='530339' date='Aug 19 2007, 11:54 AM']both have been doing training drills at camp too, pulling weghts all over the feild, these guys werent sippin coolaide all july/august, they are injured and trhey arnet getting a full free pass for it, i have doubts that levi wont be back but im quite sure willie will miss a game or two, if not, great, but dancing and standing is quite a bit different than clashing with 300lb mastadons for 3.5 hours.[/quote]

The OL is on the field for 3.5 hours straight? Standing up on your legs for 3.5 hours and not moving around much does take toll on the legs no matter how anyone looks at it. Did they sit down is the question? What gets my goat is coming out and saying an injury is worst off than it appeared and doing this during when the season is almost here. Uh, wasn't Jones just lounging around a lot at the Casino tables this off season?

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='TigerJ@w' post='530373' date='Aug 19 2007, 01:27 PM']The OL is on the field for 3.5 hours straight? Standing up on your legs for 3.5 hours and not moving around much does take toll on the legs no matter how anyone looks at it. Did they sit down is the question? What gets my goat is coming out and saying an injury is worst off than it appeared and doing this during when the season is almost here. Uh, wasn't Jones just lounging around a lot at the Casino tables this off season?[/quote]


levi lives in vegas and he has a trainer and training facility there. its been mentioned several times. and what you do with your goat is your business.

[TigerJ@w]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='530375' date='Aug 19 2007, 01:38 PM']levi lives in vegas and he has a trainer and training facility there. its been mentioned several times. and what you do with your goat is your business.[/quote]

I know he lives there, but shouldn't he be healed by now if he really is working at getting the injury better? Shouldn't Big Willie get a second opinion if the Bengals are paying him millions to do his JOB? This happens in almost every professional sports. I believe the players don't want to everything they can do to get better, for example, like Carson did. I know Big Willie is older, but Levi should not be doing this. Of course I was using a figure of speech on the goat thing, or you just being yourself?

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='TigerJ@w' post='530377' date='Aug 19 2007, 01:46 PM']I know he lives there, but shouldn't he be healed by now if he really is working at getting the injury better? Shouldn't Big Willie get a second opinion if the Bengals are paying him millions to do his JOB? This happens in almost every professional sports. I believe the players don't want to everything they can do to get better, for example, like Carson did. I know Big Willie is older, but Levi should not be doing this. Of course I was using a figure of speech on the goat thing, or you just being yourself?[/quote]


i agree on willie, but i think levi has been doing a lot, and i think he will be fine come season start, he is seasoned enough to not be horribly rusty at LT, but i think he is fine. just not going to risk injury or over fatigue in camp, as he has been pulling weights arounnd the fields and stuff. same with willie a year ago or so, he didnt practice at all, just came to play games and did random BS training instead of practicing with team ALL WEEK. i think willie is lazy but his job is to be a fat ass blocker. so his laziness isnt hurting as much as it would i dunno JEREMI JOHNSON who although fat as hell seems invisible thus far.

so yea, i think willie is half assing a lot of things at this stage in life, he got his last payday, he has little else to work for. i think levi's situation is genuine and he will be fine.


im more concerned about jeremi johnson than either of the linemen. he is highly paid FB and is needed, the fill ins are doing ok, but placing TE in the backfield half the game seems "wasteful" but what do i know.

[LoyalFanInGA v2.0]

[quote name='Storm' post='530356' date='Aug 19 2007, 12:42 PM']How in the fuck can be lying about an injury be a good thing? Who's initiating the lie? The Bengals? the Players? suggesting that they are lying about the injury is absurd.[/quote]
Remember Rich Braham's bone bruise which prevented him from playing most of last season?

Around the time of his retirement, Braham admitted the 'bone bruise' was actually a fracture.

If a player or the Bengals organization doesn't admit the full extent of an injury to the fans or their opponent, is that lying?

If a starter doesn't play because of a 'bone bruise' for months, is the treating physician a Quack?

Braham had a 'bone bruise' and finished the season on the active roster. Tab Perry had a 'bone bruise' and was placed on season ending Injured Reserved.

A bone bruise is a minor injury usually due to a direct blow. The force of the blow is not sufficient enough to cause a fracture. Fractures usually heal completely within 6-8 weeks. Thus, bone bruises (which are less traumatic than a fracture) should usually heal in less than 6 weeks with nothing more than conservative care. Bone bruises aren't detectable with plain xrays. MRIs can detect edema due to a bone bruise. Fundamentals of Radiology textbooks don't even list the term "bone bruise" in the glossary.

We're not being told the full extent of injuries, the diagnosis, the differential diagnosis, or the treatment options.

[Storm]

[quote name='LoyalFanInGA v2.0' post='530606' date='Aug 20 2007, 07:08 AM']Remember Rich Braham's bone bruise which prevented him from playing most of last season?

Around the time of his retirement, Braham admitted the 'bone bruise' was actually a fracture.

If a player or the Bengals organization doesn't admit the full extent of an injury to the fans or their opponent, is that lying?

If a starter doesn't play because of a 'bone bruise' for months, is the treating physician a Quack?[/quote]


The issue isn't players or the team lying to the fans, I could give a rats ass if they lie to the fans but it was suggested that Levi and Willie are lying to the team to get out of practice.

And yes if a player doesn't play for months because of a bone bruise and it is revealed that the Dr misdiagnosed the injury and it turns out to be a fracture the Dr is a quack.

[whodey319]

just a note, levi is able to start practice and playing this week per hobson. I doubt we are going to see much of him til the regular season though

[|doogles|]

[quote name='LoyalFanInGA v2.0' post='530606' date='Aug 20 2007, 03:08 AM']Remember Rich Braham's bone bruise which prevented him from playing most of last season?

Around the time of his retirement, Braham admitted the 'bone bruise' was actually a fracture.

If a player or the Bengals organization doesn't admit the full extent of an injury to the fans or their opponent, is that lying?

If a starter doesn't play because of a 'bone bruise' for months, is the treating physician a Quack?

Braham had a 'bone bruise' and finished the season on the active roster. Tab Perry had a 'bone bruise' and was placed on season ending Injured Reserved.

A bone bruise is a minor injury usually due to a direct blow. The force of the blow is not sufficient enough to cause a fracture. Fractures usually heal completely within 6-8 weeks. Thus, bone bruises (which are less traumatic than a fracture) should usually heal in less than 6 weeks with nothing more than conservative care. Bone bruises aren't detectable with plain xrays. MRIs can detect edema due to a bone bruise. Fundamentals of Radiology textbooks don't even list the term "bone bruise" in the glossary.

We're not being told the full extent of injuries, the diagnosis, the differential diagnosis, or the treatment options.[/quote]

Sissies.

[url="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0412142/"]Dr. House[/url] could fix it in no time!

-jd

[Tigris]

With Levi coming back, what does that do to the offensive line? Does Whitworth shift down and Andrews moves over to RT? I'm not a fan of Kooistra...

[Masher Snake]

Do Willie and Levi really need to play in preseason or practice much to be ready for the season? These guys are veterans, and will be fine as long as they're in decent shape. I'd rather not risk them playing at less than 100% and possibly getting hurt worse in a meaningless game.

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='Masher Snake' post='530756' date='Aug 20 2007, 02:44 PM']Do Willie and Levi really need to play in preseason or practice much to be ready for the season? These guys are veterans, and will be fine as long as they're in decent shape. I'd rather not risk them playing at less than 100% and possibly getting hurt worse in a meaningless game.[/quote]

Willie......no, he doesn't really need to play in the preseason to be ready....he's played next to Bobby Williams for 2 years now but Levi has not played next to whoever is going to play next to him so building a little bit of chemistry would be nice. You can assemble 5 pro bowlers on the line but until they learn how to play next to one another, they are not going to be functioning to their potential.

[LoyalFanInGA v2.0]

[quote name='Storm' post='530623' date='Aug 20 2007, 07:59 AM']And yes if a player doesn't play for months because of a bone bruise and it is revealed that the Dr misdiagnosed the injury and it turns out to be a fracture the Dr is a quack.[/quote]
You're not getting the point.

If a player is put on IR in Sept for a "bone bruise" when most bone bruises should heal by late Oct/early Nov...that player definitely doesn't have a bone bruise. That player has a more serious injury that they are only calling a "bone bruise" in the media. Call it terminology, patient confidentiality, lying...take your pick. I'm referring to Tab Perry, specifically in this case.

How can it be revealed a Dr. misdiagnosed an injury when the diagnosis isn't revealed?

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='LoyalFanInGA v2.0' post='531004' date='Aug 20 2007, 10:52 PM']You're not getting the point.

If a player is put on IR in Sept for a "bone bruise" when most bone bruises should heal by late Oct/early Nov...that player definitely doesn't have a bone bruise. That player has a more serious injury that they are only calling a "bone bruise" in the media. Call it terminology, patient confidentiality, lying...take your pick. I'm referring to Tab Perry, specifically in this case.

How can it be revealed a Dr. misdiagnosed an injury when the diagnosis isn't revealed?[/quote]

I see what you're saying, but I think you're misunderstanding Storm's point also. I see how the Bengals (Marvin) want to list injuries and be coy about them but obviously Willie and Levi have both been frustrated by the Bengals' doctors....... not for labelling their injury inaccurately through the media...but being incapable of correctly/accurately being able to label the injury in the first place. It's not a situation of where the Bengals staff knows what's wrong but choose to call it something different for the sake of <insert reason>.....theyre simply not catching or diagnosing what is really wrong with the player. Willie's case and Levi's case are sort of the same where they were/are both frustrated by the inability of the Bengals' staff to correctly diagnose and present a plan tof recovery. They had to seek second opinions to figure out what the hell the Bengals' staff couldn't.

[LoyalFanInGA v2.0]

[quote name='IKOTA' post='531017' date='Aug 20 2007, 09:40 PM']I see what you're saying, but I think you're misunderstanding Storm's point also. I see how the Bengals (Marvin) want to list injuries and be coy about them but obviously Willie and Levi have both been frustrated by the Bengals' doctors....... not for labelling their injury inaccurately through the media...but being incapable of correctly/accurately being able to label the injury in the first place. It's not a situation of where the Bengals staff knows what's wrong but choose to call it something different for the sake of <insert reason>.....theyre simply not catching or diagnosing what is really wrong with the player. Willie's case and Levi's case are sort of the same where they were/are both frustrated by the inability of the Bengals' staff to correctly diagnose and present a plan tof recovery. They had to seek second opinions to figure out what the hell the Bengals' staff couldn't.[/quote]
Watching Willie's video from 8/20, he seems just as frustrated with the reporter's portrayal of his (alleged?) frustration, "You guys are powerful."

Many times arriving at a correct diagnosis is a [i]process,[/i] not a one time snap shot of time. Some diagnoses are termed a "diagnosis of exclusion," meaning you eliminate all other possibilities before arriving at the final, correct diagnosis.

Let's take the case of a sports hernia which is a tear in musculature of the abdominal wall creating a small hole. A sports hernia and an abdominal strain are caused by the same mechanisms of injury. They both have the same symptoms. The physical exam is usually the same. Most sports hernias can't be seen or felt. Usually, an ultrasound is used to detect a sports hernia; but even ultrasounds aren't 100% accurate/sensitive in detecting sports hernias.

So if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck...it's a duck. If your duck is still painful in 2-4 weeks, we'll re-evaluate.

When money and medical assests are practically unlimited, where do you draw the line when ordering tests and procedures?

Does every player with a headache get a CT, MRI, and MRA of his head and brain?

Does every player with neck stiffness get a lumbar puncture?

If a player gets diarrhea, his ass gets irritated from wiping it all day, and he notices a small amount of blood on the toilet tissue...is it realistic to expect the Bengal's medical staff to pack his ass full of barium, shoot xrays, and then weave a 6' fiber optic scope through his anus, rectum, sigmoid colon, ascending colon, transverse colon, descending colon, and ending at the cecum looking for colon cancer? Because as we all know, rectal bleeding is cancer until proven otherwise.

[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]Anderson hopes streak stays alive [/b][/size]
[size=3][b]Lineman has made 112 straight starts [/b][/size]

By Kevin Goheen
Post staff reporter


The way Willie Anderson spoke last Thursday made reporters wonder whether the Bengals All-Pro right tackle would be able to keep his streak of 112 consecutive starts alive when the season opens against Baltimore on Sept. 10. The protective boot Anderson was wearing on his right foot made for more wondering.

Anderson, sans the boot, wanted to dispel any notions Monday that he is thinking about anything other than being able to play against the Ravens. While he was disappointed that he needed to get a second opinion to discover the true nature of the foot injury that has plagued him since last season, Anderson is just happy to have the correct diagnosis.

Neither Anderson nor the team has divulged just what the injury is or the specific procedure Anderson had done to the foot in Atlanta two weeks ago. Anderson did say the fact that he no longer is wearing the boot is a good sign and that he hopes to be able to begin practicing in the next couple of weeks.

"I just told you all that I found out something different last week," said Anderson. "I felt good about it last week. I felt good that we found out what the problem was and we handled it. You guys (media) were shocked.

"Any time you have a condition like that you're going to be worried but it's not the worst thing in the world."

Anderson has started every game at right tackle since the start of the 2000 season and he ranks seventh on the franchise's all-time games played list with 174.

Anderson missed almost all of the preseason in 2005 as he recovered from knee surgery.

"I practiced the week of the last preseason game, something like two days, and played in 8-10 plays," said Anderson, remembering back to that preseason. "Jon Kitna and I had a bet. I told Kitna - the first game was Cleveland in '05 - I told Kitna I probably wouldn't be able to make it the whole game. He said "I bet you do" and I did. I never came out the '05 season."

Scott Kooistra has been playing in Anderson's place this preseason. The Bengals have also been without starting left tackle Levi Jones, who is recovering from offseason knee surgery. Jones missed 11 games last season due to injuries, the most severe being one to his left knee at Tampa Bay last October that required surgery then and again in March.

Jones' rehab has progressed to the point that while he is still in street clothes during practices he is able to lend help to backup Andrew Whitworth by way of showing Whitworth and others the techniques coach Paul Alexander is teaching. There still is no timetable for when Jones will return to practice and he referred any questions to him playing next Monday night against Atlanta to head coach Marvin Lewis.

Lewis is not saying when either Jones or Anderson will return.

"The biggest key is that I'm able to get more work in, more volume of work per session and that's the goal," said Jones. "I know there is going to be pain regardless but the more I can get in and stay technical and have pain-free the better I'll be."

Jones disputed the claims of a recent article on ESPN.com that said one of the reasons he and Anderson have been slow to return to the lineup is that Jones is knock-kneed and Anderson has flat feet.

"It's quite amusing," said Jones. "Our knock-kneed and flat-foot tackles, that's why we're all hurt anyway."[/quote]




[url="http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070821/SPT03/708210305/1022/RSS0302"]http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...05/1022/RSS0302[/url]

[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]Bookends poised? [/b][/size]
By GEOFF HOBSON
August 21, 2007

Not only is Willie Anderson's foot out of the boot, but Levi Jones had a kick of optimism as well Monday as the Bengals bookend tackles eye a return to the field that may be sooner rather than later.

They're also staying true to their personalities in the interim. Anderson (foot) is outright saying he'll be back for Sept. 10. Jones (knee) is more cautious, but just as determined.

Jones looks to be closer and it's believed he'll be back later this week, but he would only say he's more optimistic than he was a few days ago. Yet he also admitted, "I'm up and down."

"The key is to get more work in, more volume of work per session. That's the goal," Jones said. "The more I can get in, the more technical and pain free, the better it will be. I am more optimistic. You never know what happens."

Jones isn't impressed that he looks impressive banging and pushing on assistant strength coach Ray Oliver on the side. They call Oliver "Rock," but he goes about 5-9.

"Ray is really a 6-6, 300-pound defensive end," Jones joked. "He really is that type of guy."

Anderson says it doesn't matter what team would be looming in the opener, it just happens to be the sack-happy Ravens. When you've got a streak of 112 straight games, you play a lot of teams not the Ravens. Anderson remembers waking up the Monday after one of the Baltimore games last year with his shoulder hurting so badly he thought he was done for the season. But he was in there the next Sunday against San Diego.

"It doesn't seem right with me missing football games," Anderson said. "I like to put down my head and I show up and am ready to go week in and week out. I pride myself on playing with injuries and playing hurt, and being able to play for my teammates."

Jones has seen this before from his mentor.

"If there's a possibility and there's a will, there is a way," Jones said. "If he can go, he will go. He does sometimes even when he can't. This is a very bad injury. He has trouble walking around. It's hard to say what's going to happen. I don't think Willie knows right now."[/quote]


[url="http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6209"]http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6209[/url]

[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]Bengals notebook: Anderson now says opener possible[/b][/size]
Tuesday, August 21, 2007 3:29 AM
By Bill Rabinowitz

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

CINCINNATI -- Four days after speculating that his right foot injury could keep him out of the season opener and beyond, Willie Anderson said he is confident he will be ready to play against the Baltimore Ravens on Sept. 10.

"A foot injury can't stop me from playing football," the Bengals right tackle said yesterday. "I really believe come opening day I'll be there."

Last week, Anderson disclosed he had undergone a nonsurgical procedure in Atlanta to address lingering problems in his foot. He said then that doctors predicted the procedure had a 60 percent chance of helping. If it didn't, Anderson said, "bad news comes out."

He was much more optimistic yesterday.

"We're doing the correct things, and things are going great right now," Anderson said.

The protective boot on his right foot was removed before Saturday's preseason loss to New Orleans. Anderson said he hopes to practice within a couple of weeks.

Anderson has started 112 consecutive games.

Meanwhile, left tackle Levi Jones said he is increasingly optimistic about his left knee healing enough to play in the opener.

"I'm up and down, but the biggest key is that I'm able to get more volume of work in per session," Jones said. "I know there's going to be pain. But the more I can get in and be technical, the better off I'll be."

[b]Injury update[/b]
Linebacker Eric Henderson suffered the most significant injury in Saturday's preseason loss. The second-year player broke his right wrist and required surgery. Henderson, who spent last season on the practice squad, had transitioned from defensive end. He forced a fumble with a sack Saturday and seemed likely to earn a spot on the 53-man roster.

This type of fracture typically requires at least eight weeks to heal. No decision has been made about Henderson's status.

Defensive end Robert Geathers (rib strain) and linebacker Rashad Jeanty (undisclosed) did not practice yesterday.

Several others returned to practice. Fullback Jeremi Johnson (hamstring) was on the field for the first time this summer. Among the others returning were fullback Stan White Jr. (ankle), receiver Glenn Holt (hamstring) and Keiwan Ratliff (wisdom teeth).

[b]Three cut[/b]
The Bengals waived quarterback Jeff Smith, offensive tackle Elliot Seifert and defensive end Bryan Andrews.

brabinowitz@dispatch.com[/quote]





[url="http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2007/08/21/bengals_notes0821.ART_ART_08-21-07_C3_2M7M2LR.html?sid=101"]http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sport...LR.html?sid=101[/url]