So how long till Muslim arm patches ? --- (WTF)

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='Lawman' post='558518' date='Sep 27 2007, 07:36 PM'][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chaser"]The Chasers[/url]

[i]To help you get a clue.[/i][/quote]

Because surely, it is I that doesn't have a clue

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='558524' date='Sep 27 2007, 07:59 PM']We dont need tattoos for muslims. We need them for stupid people, then I'd know who I should and shoulndt engage in intellegent conversation.
No ninja.[/quote]

I dont think there's enough ink

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='IKOTA' post='558619' date='Sep 28 2007, 02:52 AM']Unfortunately not, although it's the culture that's to blame more than the individual.......who are typically weak minded.....as has been demonstrated.

The funny thing is, when I read such posts, I feel pity for the person more than anger or any obvious emotion. [b] He was trying to say that's what all Muslims do when they capture an American soldier.....it makes it easier to rationalize the mistreatment of a whole nation for his type.
[/b][/quote]


I should have known... sorry USN

[quote]It's sad more than anything.[/quote]

Agreed.

[Homer_Rice]

Do Not Mess With The U S N ! ! ! !

cribbed from somewhere:

Four retired Navy Chiefs are walking down the street window shopping. Then they turn a corner and see a sign that says "Veterans Bar" over the doorway of an entry into an establishment that doesn't look all that well kept up. They look at each other then go in.

The old bartender says in a voice that carries across the room, "Come on in and let me pour one for you! What'll it be, gentlemen?"

There seems to be a fully stocked bar so the men all ask for a martini. In short time the bartender serves up 4 iced martinis - shaken not stirred and says, "That'll be 40 cents total, please."

The four Chiefs stare at the bartender for a moment then look at each other--they can't believe their good luck. They pay the 40 cents, finish their martinis and order another round. Again, four excellent martinis are produced with the bartender again saying, "That's 40 more cents altogether, please.

"They pay the 40 cents but their curiosity is more than they can stand. They've each had two martinis and so far they've
spent less than a dollar together. Finally one of the men says, "How can you afford to serve martinis as good as these for a dime a piece?"

The bartender replies, "No doubt you've noticed the decor in here. And the outside ain't nothin' to write home about. I don't waste money on that stuff. But, here's my story. I'm a retired Master Chief Boatswain's Mate and I always wanted to own a bar. Last year I hit the lottery for $45 million and decided to open this place for real veterans. Every drink costs a dime--wine, liquor, beer, all the same."

"Wow. That's quite a story!" says one of the Navy Chiefs.

The four of them sip at their martinis and can't help but notice three other guys at the end of the bar who don't have a drink in front of them and hadn't ordered anything the whole time the Chiefs were there. The Chief finishes his martini and, gestures at the three at the end of the bar without drinks and asks the bartender, "What's with them?"

The bartender says, "Oh, those are retired Marines. They're waiting for happy hour."

[USN Bengal]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='558735' date='Sep 28 2007, 04:09 AM']

I should have known ... sorry USN
Agreed.[/quote]

No need for sorry... I must admit that I did make my comment that way on purpose... to specifically see what reaction it would get from Ikota in particular. My comment was sarcasm at it's finest, along with making fun of the person who posted the original poll... such alarmist nonsense is asinine and irresponsible.

Just like the thread about the UF asshole getting tasered.

[b]DOWN WITH THE MAN! DOWN WITH THE POLICE! DOWN WITH THE LAW![/b]... oops... the guy was being a horrific ass and EARNED the treatment he received... but nevermind that, just [b]FIGHT THE MAN!![/b]



What I find hilarious is people will take 1 post...

1 post...

and they will tell me what I meant, tell everyone else what I was referring to, and make disparaging comments about the same.

They [b][u]STEREOTYPE[/u][/b] just as bad as the people that do it to them.

I've read almost all of these threads in this forum for quite some time, take away some information from some, laugh at others, and am appalled at times by quite a few. In particular I am appalled at the stereotyping done by the posters of the threads and those that are their most ardent supporters.

In the same way that Ikota THOUGHT I was stereotyping Muslims, I was trying to see if he was stereotyping me!

He most definitely is.

He thinks that I am a carbon copy of the [u][b]STEREOTYPE[/b][/u] that he's put on Lawman!

That my friends, is what I find the most comical of all.

These inflammatory threads that BJ and others like him loves to post here are sad... I liken this forum to the National Enquirer and drivel such as that most of the time.

Ikota, you don't know a damn thing about me, my likes or dislikes, my biases or lack thereof, and especially my experiences in dealing with people of the world. If you would ever like to know so that you could comment reasonably, or even with a little bit of intelligence, just let me know. If you're not intelligent enough to see when someone is being sarcastic without a "ninja emoticon", then get off the internet and go out and experience some REAL LIFE.

You see... I KNEW some of the soldiers who who dragged through the streets in Somalia by the locals... and it has nothing to do with being Muslim. It is all about hatred... blind hatred driven by rage, greed, ignorance, oppression , or whatever else causes it. [b]It is caused by Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus.... EVERYONE... ALL THE TIME[/b].

[b]Terrorists are terrorists.. religion, nationality, sex, age have nothing to do with it. [/b]

Now you DO know a little bit of where I come from... and it sure as hell ISN'T driven by or controlled by my US Navy experiences.

My mind IS/WAS/ALWAYS WILL BE my own.

Save your judgements for your yourself.

[USN Bengal]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='558757' date='Sep 28 2007, 08:56 AM']Do Not Mess With The U S N ! ! ! !

cribbed from somewhere:

Four retired Navy Chiefs are walking down the street window shopping. Then they turn a corner and see a sign that says "Veterans Bar" over the doorway of an entry into an establishment that doesn't look all that well kept up. They look at each other then go in.

The old bartender says in a voice that carries across the room, "Come on in and let me pour one for you! What'll it be, gentlemen?"

There seems to be a fully stocked bar so the men all ask for a martini. In short time the bartender serves up 4 iced martinis - shaken not stirred and says, "That'll be 40 cents total, please."

The four Chiefs stare at the bartender for a moment then look at each other--they can't believe their good luck. They pay the 40 cents, finish their martinis and order another round. Again, four excellent martinis are produced with the bartender again saying, "That's 40 more cents altogether, please.

"They pay the 40 cents but their curiosity is more than they can stand. They've each had two martinis and so far they've
spent less than a dollar together. Finally one of the men says, "How can you afford to serve martinis as good as these for a dime a piece?"

The bartender replies, "No doubt you've noticed the decor in here. And the outside ain't nothin' to write home about. I don't waste money on that stuff. But, here's my story. I'm a retired Master Chief Boatswain's Mate and I always wanted to own a bar. Last year I hit the lottery for $45 million and decided to open this place for real veterans. Every drink costs a dime--wine, liquor, beer, all the same."

"Wow. That's quite a story!" says one of the Navy Chiefs.

The four of them sip at their martinis and can't help but notice three other guys at the end of the bar who don't have a drink in front of them and hadn't ordered anything the whole time the Chiefs were there. The Chief finishes his martini and, gestures at the three at the end of the bar without drinks and asks the bartender, "What's with them?"

The bartender says, "Oh, those are retired Marines. They're waiting for happy hour."[/quote]


LOL!

Oldie but a goodie... of course a "real Chief Petty Officer" wouldn't be drinking martini's...
Beer is the mead of the Gods.

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='558796' date='Sep 28 2007, 11:53 AM']No need for sorry... I must admit that I did make my comment that way on purpose... to specifically see what reaction it would get from Ikota in particular. My comment was sarcasm at it's finest, along with making fun of the person who posted the original poll... such alarmist nonsense is asinine and irresponsible.

Just like the thread about the UF asshole getting tasered.

[b]DOWN WITH THE MAN! DOWN WITH THE POLICE! DOWN WITH THE LAW![/b]... oops... the guy was being a horrific ass and EARNED the treatment he received... but nevermind that, just [b]FIGHT THE MAN!![/b]



What I find hilarious is people will take 1 post...

1 post...

and they will tell me what I meant, tell everyone else what I was referring to, and make disparaging comments about the same.

They [b][u]STEREOTYPE[/u][/b] just as bad as the people that do it to them.

I've read almost all of these threads in this forum for quite some time, take away some information from some, laugh at others, and am appalled at times by quite a few. In particular I am appalled at the stereotyping done by the posters of the threads and those that are their most ardent supporters.

In the same way that Ikota THOUGHT I was stereotyping Muslims, I was trying to see if he was stereotyping me!

He most definitely is.

He thinks that I am a carbon copy of the [u][b]STEREOTYPE[/b][/u] that he's put on Lawman!

That my friends, is what I find the most comical of all.

These inflammatory threads that BJ and others like him loves to post here are sad... I liken this forum to the National Enquirer and drivel such as that most of the time.

Ikota, you don't know a damn thing about me, my likes or dislikes, my biases or lack thereof, and especially my experiences in dealing with people of the world. If you would ever like to know so that you could comment reasonably, or even with a little bit of intelligence, just let me know. If you're not intelligent enough to see when someone is being sarcastic without a "ninja emoticon", then get off the internet and go out and experience some REAL LIFE.

You see... I KNEW some of the soldiers who who dragged through the streets in Somalia by the locals... and it has nothing to do with being Muslim. It is all about hatred... blind hatred driven by rage, greed, ignorance, oppression , or whatever else causes it. [b]It is caused by Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus.... EVERYONE... ALL THE TIME[/b].

[b]Terrorists are terrorists.. religion, nationality, sex, age have nothing to do with it. [/b]

Now you DO know a little bit of where I come from... and it sure as hell ISN'T driven by or controlled by my US Navy experiences.

My mind IS/WAS/ALWAYS WILL BE my own.

Save your judgements for your yourself.[/quote]

You're right, I did stereotype you...........and for that I apologize. You see, I have been conditioned also........conditioned in a way to be defensive because of the climate that has engulfed us these days. And you're also correct about me not knowing a damn thing about you........thats why I could only go off of that one post and I reacted emotionally. I'm not too proud to admit mistake ..... I hope you accept my apology.

[bengalrick]

[quote name='IKOTA' post='558884' date='Sep 28 2007, 12:54 PM']You're right, I did stereotype you...........and for that I apologize. You see, I have been conditioned also........conditioned in a way to be defensive because of the climate that has engulfed us these days. And you're also correct about me not knowing a damn thing about you........thats why I could only go off of that one post and I reacted emotionally. I'm not too proud to admit mistake ..... I hope you accept my apology.[/quote]

your a standup guy ikota...

[USN Bengal]

[quote name='IKOTA' post='558884' date='Sep 28 2007, 12:54 PM']You're right, I did stereotype you...........and for that I apologize. You see, I have been conditioned also........conditioned in a way to be defensive because of the climate that has engulfed us these days. And you're also correct about me not knowing a damn thing about you........thats why I could only go off of that one post and I reacted emotionally. I'm not too proud to admit mistake ..... I hope you accept my apology.[/quote]

I must apologize first for baiting you... it wasn't fair. I also acted hastily and on emotion.
I should've just PM'd you and had my say... or at least thrown the bullshit flag up nicely...

I accept your apology and hope you will accept mine.

Group Hug?


[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/6.gif[/img]

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='558903' date='Sep 28 2007, 02:41 PM']your a standup guy ikota...[/quote]

And funny.....don't forget funny!

[quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='558920' date='Sep 28 2007, 02:58 PM']I must apologize first for baiting you... it wasn't fair. I also acted hastily and on emotion.
I should've just PM'd you and had my say... or at least thrown the bullshit flag up nicely...

I accept your apology and hope you will accept mine.

Group Hug?
[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/6.gif[/img][/quote]

Only if she's in it....
[img]http://www.cameriercars.be/files/2_fast_2_furious_eva_mendes.jpg[/img]

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/6.gif[/img]

[bengalrick]

[img]http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/warner_brothers/goodfellas/_group_photos/joe_pesci2.jpg[/img]

great movie

[USN Bengal]

[quote name='IKOTA' post='558956' date='Sep 28 2007, 03:22 PM']And funny.....don't forget funny!
Only if she's in it....
[img]http://www.cameriercars.be/files/2_fast_2_furious_eva_mendes.jpg[/img]

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/6.gif[/img][/quote]

Hell Yeah! If Eva is in it [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/38.gif[/img] , I could be had extremely cheap...

[Lawman]

[b]The Video-Upon Further Review[/b]

[i]By my count their were nine seperate individual interviews; I may have missed one or two but there were multiple questions presented to the same individual.

In the industry, these are called 'prime-cuts'; meaning the best video pieces to present or convey a message or as in this case the editors agenda. what we [b]DID NOT [/b] see were the out-takes of interviews that were declined or where people told [b]The Chasers[/b] these questions are stupid and "piss off".

This was not a random sampling by no means, but a calculated process to achieve an end result. From my observation; with a few exceptions the demographics selected were white anglo-saxons residing somewhere below the Mason-Dixon Line. Meaning these individuals interaction with Muslims would be limited at best if any had actually
ecnoutered a muslim at all. Are these bad people, of course not, just as the citenzry of Germany prior to WWII were not bad people. Both are/were merely guillable to the propaganda that was presented. The individuals in these interviews are simply ill-informed recieving their information via the media. Their primary concerns evolve around
the events that effect their daily lives.

The video piece may represent views of some on the surface; but with further discussion and the opportunity to think more about the questions asked , I am sure there are some who would have a change of mind/heart.

The clip/poll is and a joke as USNBengal so elegantly pointed out (nice touch brother) and I treated it as such with the response I presented. Then I was attacked by IKOTA even after I clearly stated that I voted NO and subsequently followed by WhodeyUK's name calling; a feeble tactic to defame one's character. (more on this later)[/i]

[b]The Political Angle[/b]

[i]For those that cannot see the political angle, here is my take on it. BJ does not post without an ulterior motive presence that may advance his political agenda. The Chasers troupe used the tact of playing on the theme of John Howard's (Austrailia's Prime Minister-Liberal party) hard-line approach towards terrorism which is in alignment with the US's Bush Administration; promoting fear to weild excessive power and if left un-checked the end result would be a backlash on the muslim popuation within their respective countries akin to what happened to the jews in Germany
pre-WWII.[/i]

[b]FOOTNOTE[/b]: [i]In 2005, a [u]controversial[/u] Federal Terorism Bill was passed.[/i]

[i]I raise the 'Bull-shit' flag on such a notion citing that Germany was under the rule of the National Socialist (NAZI) party and both Australia and the US are Democracies with enough checks and balnces to prevent such measures.[/i]

[b]ISLAM in America[/b]

[i]Let's see in my foreign travels, I have been to Afghanistan, Bahrain, Iraq, Kyrzakistan, Qatar, Turkey and the United Arab Emirates. I may be forgetting one or two; so yes I have encountered a muslim or two and I was highly impressed by the hospitality I recieved andwould like to thank I made a few friends. No, unfortunately I did not happen to discuss religon, because basicaly the conversations dwelved primarly on cultural exchanges; I was always asked "Do you live in a big house" I would modestly redirect the question to myyard and the greeness of my grass. [b]No I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT POT[/b]. In GTMO I had several conversations with the linguist (translators) and to a man their reponse was the same when it came to the subject of detainees's religous belief " they (detainees) are brainwashed asshole's. Yes, the linguist declared that they were also muslim.[/i]

[img]http://www.answering-islam.org/Images/truth_ani.gif[/img]

[i]We are told there are approximatelly 1.3 billion muslims worlwide andit is the 2nd growing religon next to only christianity (holding my tongue here to stay on topic). The problem we are told is that there are approx. 13 million radical extremist that wish to advance Islam globally installing a worldly [/i][url="http://www.caliphate.co.uk/"]Caliphate (Khilafah).[/url]

[i]Where did they get such notions, certainly it was not in the Christian Bible.[/i]

[i]Let me throw a few statements that will surely provoke some strong reactions:
All Jews are rich.

All Blacks are good athletes.

The French are rude.

All Mexicans are lazy.

All Arabs are terrorists.

All Americans are Christians.[/i]

[i]These are short, convient and blanket statements that people make.... and they are [/i][b]ALL WRONG[/b].

[quote]Ikota,
I have my suspicions.....it's between [b]Lawman[/b], Rudi32 or Jason...[/quote]

[i]Actually, I was not going to respond to such a "dumbass poll" until this. Who is sterotyping who? You do not have to answer because USNBengal addressed this and now I believe you hae seen your error. Your transgression is forgiven.[/i]

[i]I am a promoter of "Seperation of Church and State"; we are told to acquiese to the country/government we reside by the passage "render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's, render unto God what is god." Therefore, when I brought up sharia law, I was implying that muslim that wish to live in the US must also abide by our laws and not attempt to implement such acts. Mark my words, it is going to happen and has already been attempted using the premise of religous freedom; such irony.[/i]

[b]For IKOTA and WhodeyUK[/b]

I have attempted on numerous occassions to engage you both in discussions on the ideology of Islam and everytime you have rebuked my attempts, bringing into question my knowledge on the subject matter or resorting to namecalling

[quote]WhodeyUK
expect such ignorance from lawdouche, but I thought USN had more class[/quote]

[i]Now, I'm a big boy and I can deal with the namecalling, but what this actually indicates your inundation with 'political correctness' which I believe you convientently use as an excuse to avoid discussion and/or your ill preparedness; which your pride refuses to concede.[/i]

[i]Do I have an ulterior motive, YES I DO, I am attempting to disengage you both from you outwardly 'blind obedience' to your faith and offer critical analysis. I respect the fact that this is both difficult and dangerous for you both due to apostasy. In sincerity, I mean you both no harm and wish no harm upon you. You have an open invitation to PM me and on my word I will not disclose if you have done so.

Please, analyze the gif I offered above and seek it's meaning. God bless you both and your families.[/i]

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Lawman' post='559589' date='Sep 30 2007, 05:25 PM'][b]For IKOTA and WhodeyUK[/b]

I have attempted on numerous occassions to engage you both in discussions on the ideology of Islam and everytime you have rebuked my attempts, bringing into question my knowledge on the subject matter or resorting to namecalling

[i]Now, I'm a big boy and I can deal with the namecalling, but what this actually indicates your inundation with 'political correctness' which I believe you convientently use as an excuse to avoid discussion and/or your ill preparedness; which your pride refuses to concede.[/i]

[i]Do I have an ulterior motive, YES I DO, I am attempting to disengage you both from you outwardly 'blind obedience' to your faith and offer critical analysis. I respect the fact that this is both difficult and dangerous for you both due to apostasy.[/i][/quote]


I'm not sure what part of this I find most amusing.

-That you think I am a Muslim or have blind faith to [i]any [/i]religion to that matter - I have however occasionally enjoyed pointing out that you show little understanding of what it means to be a Christian
-That you find anything you post here as being part of a "discussion" - cutting and pasting propaganda is [i]not [/i]a discussion. A discussion occurs when you express your [i]own [/i]thoughts, something that you rarely seem to do
-That you find being called a douche shows an example of someone who is "politically correct". Safe to say I'm not used to being accused of that

But comedy aside:

[quote]In sincerity, I mean you both no harm and wish no harm upon you. God bless you both and your families[/quote]

I could not agree with you more here.

[Lawman]

[quote]That you think I am a Muslim[/quote]

[i]I believe I thought you said you were at one time during our discussions [/i]

[quote]that you show little understanding of what it means to be a Christian[/quote]

[i]You point to what appears to be my intolerance for other religons as not demonstrating what it means to not be a christian, but the fact of the matter is that Christianity is intolerant of other religions. A christian would say, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life and that no one can get to God except through Him, as Jesus Himself said in John 14:6. Jesus was also intolerant (see the money exchangers at the Temple). However, at the same time christianity can be tolerant by forgiving, being genorous and [u]kind[/u]. Ok, you may have a point on that last part, but I am trying and I am not perfect as we all fall short in the eyes of god. Oh and being a Navy Chief may have something to do with those crusty rough edges [/i]

[i]Again, I have no idea as to what you depict a christian to be or what you percieve one to be. There are four essential doctrines in christian faith: 1) the Deity of Christ, 2) Salvation by Grace, and 3) Resurrection of Christ, and 4) the gospel.[/i]

[i]I have been attempting to engage with both IKOTA and yourself (thinking you were a muslim) to show why Islam is not what it appears to be. By my faith and belief, I am directed to do so. I am not catholic and the doctrines of protestant and catholiscm must be recognized seperately.[/i]

[quote]That you find anything you post here as being part of a "discussion" - cutting and pasting propaganda is not a discussion. A discussion occurs when you express your own thoughts, something that you rarely seem to do[/quote]

[i]The only copy and paste in my last post were the quotes and the gif; everything else I presented was my own thinking and beliefs.

When I do copy and paste, it is either to present for further discussion or to present as empirical data based on my beliefs and support my position. I provide links and highlight in [color="#000080"]blue[/color] what is not my own words.[/i]

[rudi32]

[quote name='Lawman' post='558203' date='Sep 27 2007, 08:56 AM'][i]For the record, I voted NO on both; ankle braclets and tatooe's weren't an option.[/i]

[i]I have no problems with ones practice of their own religon, even though I may not agree with it. However, I still do believe that Islam is an ideology cloak as a religon.

In other words, do not attempt to promote sharia law here and everything will be fine by me. Yes, there has been attempts made and they need to be exposed, see "[s]Snakes[/s] shieks on a plane"[/i] [/quote]


[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//41.gif[/img]

[rudi32]

[quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='558796' date='Sep 28 2007, 10:23 AM']No need for sorry... I must admit that I did make my comment that way on purpose... to specifically see what reaction it would get from Ikota in particular. My comment was sarcasm at it's finest, along with making fun of the person who posted the original poll... such alarmist nonsense is asinine and irresponsible.

Just like the thread about the UF asshole getting tasered.

[b]DOWN WITH THE MAN! DOWN WITH THE POLICE! DOWN WITH THE LAW![/b]... oops... the guy was being a horrific ass and EARNED the treatment he received... but nevermind that, just [b]FIGHT THE MAN!![/b]



What I find hilarious is people will take 1 post...

1 post...

and they will tell me what I meant, tell everyone else what I was referring to, and make disparaging comments about the same.

They [b][u]STEREOTYPE[/u][/b] just as bad as the people that do it to them.

I've read almost all of these threads in this forum for quite some time, take away some information from some, laugh at others, and am appalled at times by quite a few. In particular I am appalled at the stereotyping done by the posters of the threads and those that are their most ardent supporters.

In the same way that Ikota THOUGHT I was stereotyping Muslims, I was trying to see if he was stereotyping me!

He most definitely is.

He thinks that I am a carbon copy of the [u][b]STEREOTYPE[/b][/u] that he's put on Lawman!

That my friends, is what I find the most comical of all.

These inflammatory threads that BJ and others like him loves to post here are sad... I liken this forum to the National Enquirer and drivel such as that most of the time.

Ikota, you don't know a damn thing about me, my likes or dislikes, my biases or lack thereof, and especially my experiences in dealing with people of the world. If you would ever like to know so that you could comment reasonably, or even with a little bit of intelligence, just let me know. If you're not intelligent enough to see when someone is being sarcastic without a "ninja emoticon", then get off the internet and go out and experience some REAL LIFE.

You see... I KNEW some of the soldiers who who dragged through the streets in Somalia by the locals... and it has nothing to do with being Muslim. It is all about hatred... blind hatred driven by rage, greed, ignorance, oppression , or whatever else causes it. [b]It is caused by Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus.... EVERYONE... ALL THE TIME[/b].

[b]Terrorists are terrorists.. religion, nationality, sex, age have nothing to do with it. [/b]

Now you DO know a little bit of where I come from... and it sure as hell ISN'T driven by or controlled by my US Navy experiences.

My mind IS/WAS/ALWAYS WILL BE my own.

Save your judgements for your yourself.[/quote]



best post I have ever read.

damn good job man,

[Homer_Rice]

A rudimentary understanding of the four tenets of Christianity, as you describe them, is also insufficient to be a true Christian. For example, your third precept--salvation by grace--is at the crux of disagreements between Prots and Caths. As you know, that debate is all about the "works" factor. Born and raised a Prot myself, I have rejected the extreme application of the Prot view on this bceause it leads to craziness like "being saved"/being one of the elect, etc...

I think God would want us to make this a better universe. In fact, I know that is the point--we co-participate with Creation.

It's about the works, too!

Of course, though you falsely accuse Ikota (who is Muslim and therefore cannot be) and UK (who thinks you are full of shit) of apostasy, that claim is based on the ridiculous view that Christianity is the only true way to act as a co-participant in Creation. Now, by your lights, I'm probably the real apostate here, as I have rejected Christianity-as-mythos. But then again, by your lights, while a soul such as I might be consigned to some imaginary torment in the afterlife, the salvation by grace doctrine is, in effect, an arrogant bit of self-licensing by Prot elites to cause all kinds of torment here and now, in real life for real people. It's a shame that so many of the "unwashed" fall for this crap and provide the crucial bulwark for those Christians who are truly evil monsters.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='559870' date='Sep 30 2007, 08:37 PM']A rudimentary understanding of the four tenets of Christianity, as you describe them, is also insufficient to be a true Christian. For example, your third precept--salvation by grace--is at the crux of disagreements between Prots and Caths. As you know, that debate is all about the "works" factor. Born and raised a Prot myself, I have rejected the extreme application of the Prot view on this bceause it leads to craziness like "being saved"/being one of the elect, etc...

I think God would want us to make this a better universe. In fact, I know that is the point--we co-participate with Creation.

It's about the works, too![/quote]


Faith without works is dead.

[Lawman]

[img]http://www.movieactors.com/freezeframes5/BlazeSaddle133.jpeg[/img]

[quote]"I think their all in cahoots, just baiting you to cut and paste."[/quote]

[quote]For example, your third precept--salvation by grace--is at the crux of disagreements between Prots and Caths. As you know, that debate is all about the "works" factor. Born and raised a Prot myself, I have rejected the extreme application of the Prot view on this bceause it leads to craziness like "being saved"/being one of the elect, etc...[/quote]

[quote]It's about the works, too![/quote]

[b]Saved by grace [/b]

[u](Ephesians 2:8-9) [/u]- [color="#000080"]"[b]For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, that no one should boast." [/b]
[u](Rom. 3:20,28)[/u] - [color="#000080"]"because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin...28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." [/color]
[u](Galatians 2:16) [/u]- [color="#000080"]"nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; [b]since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified[/b]." [/color]

[b]Saved by works[/b]
[u](James 2:24)[/u] - "[color="#000080"][b]You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone[/b]."[/color]
[u](Matthew 19:1617)[/u] - [color="#000080"]"And behold, one came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?" 17And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." [/color]

[i]Sounds like a contradiction[/i]!

No it is not, [b]the works [/b]as described in the following:

[i]Keeping the commandments; loving one another, helping the poor, tending to the sick etc..[/i] [i]However we all fall short of keeping all of the commandments.[/i]

[color="#000080"]Grace is an unmerited favor from God, justice is getting what we deserve, grace is getting what we do not deserve.[/color]

[quote]Of course, though you[b] falsely accuse Ikota (who is Muslim and therefore cannot be) and UK (who thinks you are full of shit) of apostasy[/b], that claim is based on the ridiculous view that Christianity is the only true way to act as a co-participant in Creation.[/quote]

[i]Homer,
You totally missed the boat on that one; [b]I DID NOT ACCUSE[/b] either of any such thing. I stated that I can respect the fact that their were muslims (errantly thinking WhodeyUK was) and to critically analyze Islam would be difficult. Additionally, as a mulsims, apostasy for them is a dangerous thing and I wished no harm upon them. [b]I did not accuse them of anything[/b]. I recommend you reread what I post a little slower and stop looking for things to attack me with; especially where nothing exist.[/i]

[Lawman]

[quote]But then again, by your lights, while a soul such as I might be consigned to some imaginary torment in the afterlife, [b]the salvation by grace doctrine is, in effect, an arrogant bit of self-licensing by Prot elites to cause all kinds of torment here and now, in real life for real people[/b]. It's a shame that so many of the "unwashed" fall for this crap and provide the crucial bulwark for those Christians who are truly evil monsters.[/quote]

[i]It is clearly evident that you do not understand the message. I hope these passages help. These are NOT the words of Protestant elites; but those of Paul.[/i]


[u]Romans 5:1[/u] [color="#000080"]Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ[/color]

[u]Ephesians 2:8-9[/u] [color="#000080"]8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; [b]and that not of yourselves[/b]: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast[/color]

[u]Galatians 3:14 [/u] [color="#000080"]14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.[/color]

[Homer_Rice]

I apologize, Lawman, I thought you actually meant something when you wrote this:

[quote]Do I have an ulterior motive, YES I DO, I am attempting to disengage you both from you outwardly 'blind obedience' to your faith and offer critical analysis. I respect the fact that this is both difficult and dangerous for you both due to apostasy. In sincerity, I mean you both no harm and wish no harm upon you.[/quote]

Of course, what can you expect, I'm a dumbass who doesn't mind fucking up the world like a bull in a china shop.

[|Bunghole|]

L Ron Hubbard is watching....

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='560192' date='Oct 1 2007, 12:28 PM']L Ron Hubbard is watching....[/quote]
All hail Xenu!

I'm so sick of these blood-drenched purveyors of torment who can still manage to sleep a sleep of self-satisfaction at night, mostly because they've poked their own eyes out because it's easier to do that than it is to see the damage their havoc has caused in the world.

[Lawman]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='560149' date='Oct 1 2007, 11:33 AM']I apologize, Lawman, I thought you actually meant something when you wrote this:
Of course, what can you expect, I'm a dumbass who doesn't mind fucking up the world like a bull in a china shop.[/quote]

Homer,

[i]Neither Ikota or WhodeyUk would NOT engage in open conversation/discussion when it came to Islamic issue's; they would simply side-step them with feeble attemps to discredit my knowledge on the subject or resort to name-calling tactics.[/i](now I know why WhodeyUK wouldn't respond; slaps fore-head).

[i]Islam is as dysfunctional with it's seperate sects as Christianity is with it's varying denominations. There is a Qur'anic sect out there that has recently caught my attention where as they hold the Quran as preserved (I have argument against this notion) and that the Hadith's and Sunnah's should not viewed as inspired (sound familiar); incidently fatwah's have been levied against specific individuals within this sect.

Homer, do you not think I venture onto pro-islamic sites in order to try and understand what is being taught to our muslim brothers on christianity? It's NOT the miss-information on christianity that I find interesting, but more compelling is the omissions which effect interpertation.[/i]

[i]I HAVE questioned my own belief's and continue to do so; some answers to my questions I have found and/or have come to reason with, but other's still do exist and I continue to seek. [/i]

[Khatmandude]

Lawman, you are mistaken on SO MUCH regarding Islam that I find no point in "discussing" anything with you. You don't objectively research it and I can tell due to your misconceptions and just flat out wrong interpretations regarding it....and that's coming from me.....a guy in his 20's who has alot of work to do still in regards to knowledge. To even label as discussion what goes on in 90% of these threads would be an insult to the process of intellectual discussion.......