Hobson's Choice: Beat the clock? (Bengals.com)

[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]Hobson's Choice: Beat the clock? [/b][/size]
October 31, 2007

I feel that the GM is wasting one of the top QBs in the league who is in his prime by not getting a solid defensive team out there.

Do you agree? Carson is in his prime and they are letting a special talent go to waste by not helping him out on the other side of the ball.

They put up 45 points and still lose? No Excuse. Give this team a boost in the Defense Department. This has been going on longer than just this year.

What are your thoughts? [b]Fred, Appleton, WI

FRED:[/b] Carson's biological clock is ticking, but the scary thing is that players supposed to be the heart of this defense have never really got out of the womb. If there is one thing they have to do at the end of the season it is sit down and figure out why the defensive drafts from '04-06 have yielded so little.

By GM I guess you mean Bengals president Mike Brown although he no longer has the title. The club made a clear decision a few years ago after Marvin's first free-agent class was spearheaded by three defensive players from each position group that got about a combined $10 million to sign in a defensive lineman (John Thornton), a linebacker (Kevin Hardy) and a cornerback (Tory James).

Brown and the football people's decision was sound. They would drop more than $100 million on re-upping their offensive core, then draft and develop the rest of the defense starting in 2004, when four of the five first-day picks were defensive. In '05 and '06, two of the three first-day picks were defensive in each of those drafts and a supplemental third round pick in '06 (Ahmad Brooks) was defensive. Somewhere, I'm sure, they thought a couple of playmakers would emerge.

But none of those nine defensive players drafted on the first day from '04 to '06 look like Pro Bowlers yet.

And, no question, injury and bad luck have something to do with it. Losing a first-round pick like David Pollack with what looks to be a career-ending neck injury is devastating, and losing the Pro Bowler in the group, Odell Thurman, to a pair of one-year suspensions is curious, unprecedented, and never been explained by the NFL.

But they knew Thurman was a gamble when they drafted him, cornerback Keiwan Ratliff was deemed too slow and is gone, free safety Madeiu Williams hasn't recaptured his rookie form and was Caleb Miller ever big enough to play linebacker?

Brooks and Frostee Rucker, well, they haven't been able to stay on the field long enough to know what you and they've got.

So is it personnel decisions, how the players are being used, or just plain bad luck that has kept this defense from catching up to the offense?

Who really knows? Probably all three are factors.

But I do know this. Palmer isn't getting any younger and except for Robert Geathers now hampered by learning a new position, there is no defensive playmaker in sight.

Even if they decide that it was just injuries that doomed those drafts, aren't they now forced to jump out of their model and get that one stud in free agency that can make a difference over there?

OK, OK, maybe if Brooks and Thurman can get on the field together...But you've got to get some proven production over there instead of wistful potential as the clock ticks.

As a postscript, you have to hold off on the '07 draft because they just got here, and when it comes to the criticism of this year's No. 1 pick and last year's No. 1 pick, cornerbacks Leon Hall and Johnathan Joseph, respectively, the brakes must go on. NFL corners need more time than most to learn simply because of the demands of the position.

Look at veteran corner Dre Bly Monday night in Denver. His double-digit signing bonus was no match for someone named Greg Jennings in overtime on Brett Favre's 82-yard stunner.

The rants about Hall playing wines hard one-on-one could be heard all the way back to 1987, when a rookie cornerback named Eric Thomas got scathed by Jerry Rice in one-on-one coverage on a 25-yard heave on the last play of the game.

Thomas made the Pro Bowl the next year.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Geoff -

With what seems to me as depleted talent on our defense, what is the Bengals' salary cap number for this year? It seems to me that they always have room to pick up people like LeMar Marshall, Anthony Schlegel, Corey Mays, and Dhani Jones.

I know the Bengals signed these guys for a bargain, but combining all of these contracts that were signed after the start of training camp it seems like we had enough money to sign a reasonably big named free agent during the offseason. Do not forget we also signed Aaron Elling to kick in the preseason alone. That does not seem like money well spent to me. Thoughts? [b]Greg G., Cincinnati, OH

GREG: [/b]The money spent on injuries and free agents are two separate issues. With about $1 million left under the '07 salary cap, the Bengals are far over the current league average of $6 million under the cap and that means the injuries, along with incentives, are going to put them over.

Traditionally, the Bengals have kept a $3 million pad for injuries and incentives. If they hadn't kept that pad, they wouldn't have been able to field a full roster of 53 this season with the spate of injuries.

The signings of Jones, Marshall and all the rest were out of that pad, and you can bet that they never dreamed they would be signing so many veterans like that so late.

And Elling is one of the reasons they're in this bizarre fix. They acquired him only to kick in the preseason finale because Shayne Graham was hurt and had no intention of keeping Elling so that they would have to pay his salary.

But when Elling got hurt for the season on his first play as a Bengal with an ACL and they had to waive him injured, they absorbed about $200,000 alone on him. A backup kicker getting an ACL? You knew it was going to be a tough year.

They also keep a pad in order to extend the contracts of potential free agents late in the season so they can put some of the money into this year's cap and not put that much of a hit into '08 and '09.

But it's doubtful they can do that now. The incentive of first-round pick Leon Hall is going to kick in on top of the injuries, putting them over the cap and cutting about $2 million into the '08 cap.

So the injury pad is built into the planning. The argument is not giving money to Jones and Marshall. That money was already earmarked for injuries/incentives/extensions whether they signed a major free agent or not.

The debate comes before in deciding to franchise defensive end Justin Smith and not pursuing any major free agents on the defensive side of the ball.

You can make an argument that they should have. But that has nothing to do with the injuries and what has transpired since August. The one thing you can conclude is they've virtually exhausted that $109 million for this year.[/quote]


[url="http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6408"]http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6408[/url]

[Jungle1]

one of the least positive pieces I have seen from Hobson in a while.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

WOW....Hobson is already preparing his excuses on why we will not go after any big name free agents next year.


Will anything ever change?

[The Entertainer]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' post='582650' date='Nov 1 2007, 03:08 AM']WOW....Hobson is already preparing his excuses on why we will not go after any big name free agents next year.


Will anything ever change?[/quote]

[VonBlade]

[quote]But they knew Thurman was a gamble when they drafted him, cornerback Keiwan Ratliff was deemed too slow and is gone, free safety Madeiu Williams hasn't recaptured his rookie form [b]since Bres coached all the good play out of him[/b] and was Caleb Miller ever big enough to play linebacker?[/quote]

Does it strike anyone as odd that all our D players do best when we first get them, rather than after they'd have long enough to learn the coaches way??

The proof is, as they say, in the pudding.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

I could not agree more....that is why if Bres goes then all of the defensive coaches need to go.

[|Lucid|]

I have to agree.. Whether it's their fault or not.. The fact remains the bengals have yet to develop any real talent defensively. I think it's time for house cleaning on that side of the ball.

[claptonrocks]

[quote name='Lucid' post='582713' date='Nov 1 2007, 09:26 AM']I have to agree.. Whether it's their fault or not.. The fact remains the bengals have yet to develop any real talent defensively. I think it's time for house cleaning on that side of the ball.[/quote]
By adding two quality linemen ( DE and DT) getting backers off injuries, having the two youngsters ( White and Ndukwe) step up at safety the team could and probably would look overhauled.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='claptonrocks' post='582721' date='Nov 1 2007, 09:41 AM']By adding two quality linemen ( DE and DT) getting backers off injuries, having the two youngsters ( White and Ndukwe) step up at safety the team could and probably would look overhauled.[/quote]

The question there is, why has'nt White played yet...at all...whats his deal?

[claptonrocks]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' post='582722' date='Nov 1 2007, 09:43 AM']The question there is, why has'nt White played yet...at all...whats his deal?[/quote]
For one he's a rookie free safety playing in back of Madiue Williams..
He was injured earlier and he played in a completely different system at TCU than what the pros use..
He's basically in his "learning stages" mode.....
Hell the team is getting abused enough in pass coverage .. Why bring him in if he isnt ready yet.
I think he has played special teams. no?

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='claptonrocks' post='582726' date='Nov 1 2007, 09:48 AM']For one he's a rookie free safety playing in back of Madiue Williams..
He was injured earlier and he played in a completely different system at TCU than what the pros use..
He's basically in his "learning stages" mode.....
Hell the team is getting abused enough in pass coverage .. Why bring him in if he isnt ready yet.
I think he has played special teams. no?[/quote]

I honestly dont know if he has played ST, but as bad as our safety play has been can he do much worse then Madieu?

[claptonrocks]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' post='582730' date='Nov 1 2007, 10:02 AM']I honestly dont know if he has played ST, but as bad as our safety play has been can he do much worse then Madieu?[/quote]

Yes he has played on special teams.. Article in Bengals.com about Lewis saying he's happy about his progress and that he's played ST in games 2-7....
Can he be worse than Williams at this point? Id imagine so ..coverage skills may be pretty raw.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' post='582650' date='Nov 1 2007, 03:08 AM']WOW....Hobson is already preparing his excuses on why we will not go after any big name free agents next year.


Will anything ever change?[/quote]


because its a risky waste of money?

[LudwigVan Kubrick]

[quote name='Lucid' post='582713' date='Nov 1 2007, 09:26 AM']I have to agree.. Whether it's their fault or not.. The fact remains the bengals have yet to develop any real talent defensively. I think it's time for house cleaning on that side of the ball.[/quote]


Only if they plan to replace the defensive coaches with competant defensive coaches.

Otherwise, may as well not even bother.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='582796' date='Nov 1 2007, 11:51 AM']because its a risky waste of money?[/quote]

Cuz we did so well signing our own??...It's all risky money.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' post='582830' date='Nov 1 2007, 12:30 PM']Cuz we did so well signing our own??...It's all risky money.[/quote]

i agree, but typically, when you sign your own, you have the advantage of already having them under contract, so they can play the next year for 500k, or sign a new deal and get 6 mil in hand tomorrow, most players will take the money, cause a torn ACL next year on that 500k salary, gets them about 600k the next year in a one year deal. so there is a slight benefit as well as knowing exactly what you have, not just game film, we have signed palyers we shouldnt have to extensions, and signed free agents we shouldnt have, everyone has, its part of the risk of the game in general.

i truely enjoy talking about personnel strategies, because there are so many angles you have to consider.

current salary level
increases in current contracts over next 3-4 years,
performance bonuses
dead money from released players
IR money set aside
draft class benefit or setback
roster size,
position depth


say we have 4 defensive linemen, their talent levels are: 6, 6, 7, 5 we can replace a DE, who is a 6, with a DE who is an 8, and cost us an extra 4 mil a year over what he makes. say we have linebackers at the same time, who are: 3, 8, 6 and we can improve the 3 to a 7 for 2 mil a year more.

that increase, for less money, will make the team much better overall.

soooo many here, storm, and a few others, were making fun of the 2-3 mil we save for the IR list salaries and injury settlements. because if you go OVER, it docks your next season cap, if the cap is 110, we spend 115, next year we have 105 to use. its VERY crippling and has a longterm effect, as with increases in salary we would likely spend 115 again, and have 100 the next year after that.(of course the cap icnreases and some bonuses ddeminish, but the idea is the same)

we already are into next years cap by 2 mil or so from so many injuries. luckily we have 8 mil for jsmith coming off the books clean and chad's many bonuses finally slow down about 3.5 mil against the cap, so we gain 11 mill next year, but 2-3 of that is already gone from IR players salary hit as we had to replace them but are still stuck with the salary.

free agnets, good ones, are getting premium pay right now, and big upfront garaunteed money, a torn ACL or IR move and the team is in a HUGE hole immediately, where we likely got a better deal signing someone to an extension before they hit the market. look what simmons and KASE got from NO. yikes. think what geathers would have got after 10.5 sacks to a team desperate for a pass rusher... probably 15 mil more..

the only huge holes we have that need fixing are depth, and even solid depth would ahve left us with holes this year.

39 players have missed at least a games worth of time injured or being signed late as a replacement. no big name free agent in the world will fix that.

free agents are a necessary evil, unless you hit 7-9 homeruns in the draft, and lose none of your role players. which neither will ever happen.

but since the top 5%-10% of each position is getting a PREMIUM in the free agent market, the 11-20% talent wise are getting under market value. the rest get new jobs cause rookies are cheaper.

if chad gets a torn ACL/MCL/hernia in the last game of the year, we would probably be looking at a big name FA WR. but if landon johnson, brooks, pollack are all hurt, we are better off getting a talented younger players to replace. as you hope those players bounce back, etc.

thats just my take.

reguardless of what our record indicates, lack of a huge name free agent has nothing to do with our failures,

[list=1]
[*]Injuries
[*]Position Coaching
[*]lack of consistancy
[/list]

is my list of reasons why we are failing... none of which are remedied by a big name free agent. sadly.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='582839' date='Nov 1 2007, 12:47 PM']i agree, but typically, when you sign your own, you have the advantage of already having them under contract, so they can play the next year for 500k, or sign a new deal and get 6 mil in hand tomorrow, most players will take the money, cause a torn ACL next year on that 500k salary, gets them about 600k the next year in a one year deal. so there is a slight benefit as well as knowing exactly what you have, not just game film, we have signed palyers we shouldnt have to extensions, and signed free agents we shouldnt have, everyone has, its part of the risk of the game in general.

i truely enjoy talking about personnel strategies, because there are so many angles you have to consider.

current salary level
increases in current contracts over next 3-4 years,
performance bonuses
dead money from released players
IR money set aside
draft class benefit or setback
roster size,
position depth


say we have 4 defensive linemen, their talent levels are: 6, 6, 7, 5 we can replace a DE, who is a 6, with a DE who is an 8, and cost us an extra 4 mil a year over what he makes. say we have linebackers at the same time, who are: 3, 8, 6 and we can improve the 3 to a 7 for 2 mil a year more.

that increase, for less money, will make the team much better overall.

soooo many here, storm, and a few others, were making fun of the 2-3 mil we save for the IR list salaries and injury settlements. because if you go OVER, it docks your next season cap, if the cap is 110, we spend 115, next year we have 105 to use. its VERY crippling and has a longterm effect, as with increases in salary we would likely spend 115 again, and have 100 the next year after that.(of course the cap icnreases and some bonuses ddeminish, but the idea is the same)

we already are into next years cap by 2 mil or so from so many injuries. luckily we have 8 mil for jsmith coming off the books clean and chad's many bonuses finally slow down about 3.5 mil against the cap, so we gain 11 mill next year, but 2-3 of that is already gone from IR players salary hit as we had to replace them but are still stuck with the salary.

free agnets, good ones, are getting premium pay right now, and big upfront garaunteed money, a torn ACL or IR move and the team is in a HUGE hole immediately, where we likely got a better deal signing someone to an extension before they hit the market. look what simmons and KASE got from NO. yikes. think what geathers would have got after 10.5 sacks to a team desperate for a pass rusher... probably 15 mil more..

the only huge holes we have that need fixing are depth, and even solid depth would ahve left us with holes this year.

39 players have missed at least a games worth of time injured or being signed late as a replacement. no big name free agent in the world will fix that.

free agents are a necessary evil, unless you hit 7-9 homeruns in the draft, and lose none of your role players. which neither will ever happen.

but since the top 5%-10% of each position is getting a PREMIUM in the free agent market, the 11-20% talent wise are getting under market value. the rest get new jobs cause rookies are cheaper.

if chad gets a torn ACL/MCL/hernia in the last game of the year, we would probably be looking at a big name FA WR. but if landon johnson, brooks, pollack are all hurt, we are better off getting a talented younger players to replace. as you hope those players bounce back, etc.

thats just my take.

reguardless of what our record indicates, lack of a huge name free agent has nothing to do with our failures,

[list=1]
[*]Injuries
[*]Position Coaching
[*]lack of consistancy
[/list]

is my list of reasons why we are failing... none of which are remedied by a big name free agent. sadly.[/quote]

The injury thing is old....what good are players when you can't get...let alone keep them on the field. If it's the training staff then they need to be gone. If it's the players lack of training/overall ability to stay healthy then they need to be gone. This problem is not isolated to this year only....it started last year. It is becoming a trend. Even in 2005 the big thing was that we never had linebackers starting in the same positions from game to game.

I am not advocating an all out free agency blowout....just sign somebody who is worth it.

I would be happy with one Lance Briggs rather than 5 Kevin Hardy's. Get a player that is worth it and will play for more than a couple years so you can build around him.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' post='582844' date='Nov 1 2007, 12:53 PM']The injury thing is old....what good are players when you can't get...let alone keep them on the field. If it's the training staff then they need to be gone. If it's the players lack of training/overall ability to stay healthy then they need to be gone. This problem is not isolated to this year only....it started last year. It is becoming a trend. Even in 2005 the big thing was that we never had linebackers starting in the same positions from game to game.

I am not advocating an all out free agency blowout....just sign somebody who is worth it.

I would be happy with one Lance Briggs rather than 5 Kevin Hardy's. Get a player that is worth it and will play for more than a couple years so you can build around him.[/quote]

what happens when lance briggs tears an ACL and you cant even afford a kevin hardy to replace him?

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='582845' date='Nov 1 2007, 12:57 PM']what happens when lance briggs tears an ACL and you cant even afford a kevin hardy to replace him?[/quote]


man its scary that I was just about to post the same thing.


I'm all for making a splash in free agency, but I don't want to have a team with no depth because of it. There has to be a happy medium.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='582846' date='Nov 1 2007, 01:00 PM']man its scary that I was just about to post the same thing.


I'm all for making a splash in free agency, but I don't want to have a team with no depth because of it. There has to be a happy medium.[/quote]


typically that happy medium comes from young star talent and above average veteran depth...

we havent really had either.

someone somewhere has to be looking at workouts or training at some level...

its like a plague.

[lslmustang]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='582839' date='Nov 1 2007, 12:47 PM']i agree, but typically, when you sign your own, you have the advantage of already having them under contract, so they can play the next year for 500k, or sign a new deal and get 6 mil in hand tomorrow, most players will take the money, cause a torn ACL next year on that 500k salary, gets them about 600k the next year in a one year deal. so there is a slight benefit as well as knowing exactly what you have, not just game film, we have signed palyers we shouldnt have to extensions, and signed free agents we shouldnt have, everyone has, its part of the risk of the game in general.

i truely enjoy talking about personnel strategies, because there are so many angles you have to consider.

current salary level
increases in current contracts over next 3-4 years,
performance bonuses
dead money from released players
IR money set aside
draft class benefit or setback
roster size,
position depth


say we have 4 defensive linemen, their talent levels are: 6, 6, 7, 5 we can replace a DE, who is a 6, with a DE who is an 8, and cost us an extra 4 mil a year over what he makes. say we have linebackers at the same time, who are: 3, 8, 6 and we can improve the 3 to a 7 for 2 mil a year more.

that increase, for less money, will make the team much better overall.

soooo many here, storm, and a few others, were making fun of the 2-3 mil we save for the IR list salaries and injury settlements. because if you go OVER, it docks your next season cap, if the cap is 110, we spend 115, next year we have 105 to use. its VERY crippling and has a longterm effect, as with increases in salary we would likely spend 115 again, and have 100 the next year after that.(of course the cap icnreases and some bonuses ddeminish, but the idea is the same)

we already are into next years cap by 2 mil or so from so many injuries. luckily we have 8 mil for jsmith coming off the books clean and chad's many bonuses finally slow down about 3.5 mil against the cap, so we gain 11 mill next year, but 2-3 of that is already gone from IR players salary hit as we had to replace them but are still stuck with the salary.

free agnets, good ones, are getting premium pay right now, and big upfront garaunteed money, a torn ACL or IR move and the team is in a HUGE hole immediately, where we likely got a better deal signing someone to an extension before they hit the market. look what simmons and KASE got from NO. yikes. think what geathers would have got after 10.5 sacks to a team desperate for a pass rusher... probably 15 mil more..

the only huge holes we have that need fixing are depth, and even solid depth would ahve left us with holes this year.

39 players have missed at least a games worth of time injured or being signed late as a replacement. no big name free agent in the world will fix that.

free agents are a necessary evil, unless you hit 7-9 homeruns in the draft, and lose none of your role players. which neither will ever happen.

but since the top 5%-10% of each position is getting a PREMIUM in the free agent market, the 11-20% talent wise are getting under market value. the rest get new jobs cause rookies are cheaper.

if chad gets a torn ACL/MCL/hernia in the last game of the year, we would probably be looking at a big name FA WR. but if landon johnson, brooks, pollack are all hurt, we are better off getting a talented younger players to replace. as you hope those players bounce back, etc.

thats just my take.

reguardless of what our record indicates, lack of a huge name free agent has nothing to do with our failures,

[list=1]
[*]Injuries
[*]Position Coaching
[*]lack of consistancy
[/list]

is my list of reasons why we are failing... none of which are remedied by a big name free agent. sadly.[/quote]


Well said!

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='582845' date='Nov 1 2007, 12:57 PM']what happens when lance briggs tears an ACL and you cant even afford a kevin hardy to replace him?[/quote]

As far as hobknob is saying...we can't.

And so your line of thinking should be since we struck out with Klinger and Akili we should have never drafted Palmer.

Your saying we should not even try?...I don't get it. No risk..no reward. Cuz what we are doing now sure as hell is not working.

In this league if you have too many starters go down...you are screwed anyways. Our problem right now is we have the beginnings of a chronically banged up team.

[MrOrange1219]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='582845' date='Nov 1 2007, 12:57 PM']what happens when lance briggs tears an ACL and you cant even afford a kevin hardy to replace him?[/quote]
You've got to take risks somewhere along the line to beat teams like Indy and NE. Maybe the risk doesn't work and we've got to wait another year... or maybe it works and the Bengals can get past "the big dogs".

Either way, like the "kick a FG/go for the TD" debate from the steelers game - I'd rather see the Bengals take a chance and fail rather than stay "safe" and fail. (I would proposed that the "safe" way would sork, but it hasn't in the past 15 years...)

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' post='582851' date='Nov 1 2007, 01:07 PM']As far as hobknob is saying...we can't.

And so your line of thinking should be since we struck out with Klinger and Akili we should have never drafted Palmer.

Your saying we should not even try?...I don't get it. No risk..no reward. Cuz what we are doing now sure as hell is not working.

In this league if you have too many starters go down...you are screwed anyways. Our problem right now is we have the beginnings of a chronically banged up team.[/quote]


[quote name='MrOrange1219' post='582853' date='Nov 1 2007, 01:12 PM']You've got to take risks somewhere along the line to beat teams like Indy and NE. Maybe the risk doesn't work and we've got to wait another year... or maybe it works and the Bengals can get past "the big dogs".

Either way, like the "kick a FG/go for the TD" debate from the steelers game - I'd rather see the Bengals take a chance and fail rather than stay "safe" and fail. (I would proposed that the "safe" way would sork, but it hasn't in the past 15 years...)[/quote]


i guess what im saying, is there is a lot of risk already on the field. taking more risk is far more dangerous. here are our at risk players already on the payroll

carson - hurt several times, cost us a potential playoff birth in 2004 and a playoff game in 2005. finished 1 season healthy as a pro.
pollack - getting piad and likely wont be back, but could be lost starting LB #1 pick for 2 years
thurman - see above, #2 pick starting MLb for 2 years
henry - lost for 11 games thus far

once the book is closed on thurman and pollack (next 9 months should determine both i think) we can open new doors. but we will likely get another top 3 round LB next year in the draft, as both wont be back for sure... if eiuther..

i would also be willing to bet,

the same two saying we need to take risks, want to extend and well pay TJ....


i would love a faster threat of receivers, Chad/Henry/Holt

but anyway im getting off topic.

i think we pick up a linebacker in the FA market this year too, but im not expecting adalius thomas status, but someone who isnt hartwell garbage (which i called before it happened)

young talented free agents are crazy expensive.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='582860' date='Nov 1 2007, 01:22 PM']i guess what im saying, is there is a lot of risk already on the field. taking more risk is far more dangerous. here are our at risk players already on the payroll

carson - hurt several times, cost us a potential playoff birth in 2004 and a playoff game in 2005. finished 1 season healthy as a pro.
pollack - getting piad and likely wont be back, but could be lost starting LB #1 pick for 2 years
thurman - see above, #2 pick starting MLb for 2 years
henry - lost for 11 games thus far

once the book is closed on thurman and pollack (next 9 months should determine both i think) we can open new doors. but we will likely get another top 3 round LB next year in the draft, as both wont be back for sure... if eiuther..

i would also be willing to bet,

the same two saying we need to take risks, want to extend and well pay TJ....


i would love a faster threat of receivers, Chad/Henry/Holt

but anyway im getting off topic.

i think we pick up a linebacker in the FA market this year too, but im not expecting adalius thomas status, but someone who isnt hartwell garbage (which i called before it happened)

young talented free agents are crazy expensive.[/quote]

Vilma for a second...might not be too huge a risk. He is only on his rookie contract. He played far better in the 4-3 then the 3-4.

I have this crazy feeling we are going to make a run at getting Vilma.