Brat: The Man, the Myth, the Legend

[CTBengalsFan]

Great post AZ, the only thing I'd add is there's no way Jerry Jones lets Garrett get away.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='Abu-Zayd' post='701313' date='Sep 15 2008, 12:20 AM']Pakman and I charted plays today and predicted successfully an average of 10 out of 13 plays.

Once again, no play action passes... one, I think and it was performed badly. Dorsey is the most explosive player out of the backfield and he was not used until the end of the first half...2 plays for like 70 yards...and appropriately, he was not give the ball again for the rest of the game.

Despite the fact the Bengals may have been a big yardage team, the scoring success and reliability of the offense has been very shoddy, given the talent level, over the last 2 years. 3rd down efficiency and red zone offense illustrate the point.

The reality is the bengals style of offense is not a championship type offense. Brat's offense and ML's philosophy tends to line up the offense and expects enough people to defeat their one on one matchups and make a play. YOU CAN'T DO THAT! There is equal talent level on the field and the TEAM that plays best WINS. How does a team play well? Keep the opponents surprised at your attacks on offense, make them think before they commit to run or pass on defense.

If their DL is coming after the QB, you let their line come through and do some screens and make them think about it; if their LB's are coming up and making downhill plays on runs, then keep a steady diet of play actions to keep it in their minds that they never can be sure what you're doing; if they play with cushions, do short passes and let your receivers make a play; if they play tight, throw over their heads to keep 'em thinking. This is championship football that takes what the defense is giving and takes what is available.

Bratkowski's offense does not work that way. It is "explosive" instead. But when the D was not top notch, even without as much talent as the O, the coordinators were fired. The offense has been terrible for 3 years now, and given the talent here, shouldn't the coordinator be replaced?!

Zimmer is OK, so ML can go, and surely Brat can go. Maybe Jason Garrett can join his old associate Zimmer as the Head Coach. A friend suggested this brilliant idea, to reunite former Dallas coordinators.

AZ[/quote]
:applaud:

[Khatmandude]

So let me understand these things we call "statistics". These statistics say that the Bengals' offense was a top 10 offense last year.........leads you to believe they were pretty good right? Well, that's not exactly accurate......this top 10 offense scored 2 or more touchdowns in all of 4 games last year. And if we look up the teams they scored 2 or more against, it's not going to be very impressive. I dont put much stock in statistics.........they can be evidence but are far from a final verdict, especially when it comes to the Bengals' offense the last couple of years.

[-Dan_Bengals_FL-]

[quote name='BengalsFREAK' post='701119' date='Sep 14 2008, 04:06 PM']Swing and a miss.........[/quote]

They were better in a lot phases, which is good to see.

We got some tough breaks yesterday. The wind effects our game plan much more than it does theirs. Plus, in order to compensate for the wind, we were going to go to Utecht. But, we all see what happened there.

We have to face it.

In my opinion, right now our players have trouble executing play in and play out when things aren't going perfectly. Bratkowski's game plan makes everyone's job real easy when the deep ball is in full force. If we can hit deep passes to Chad early, the saftey has to drop back, the running lanes open, the intermediate passes become easy and eventually the defense gets tired and we can put the dagger through their heart. Our players have to learn how to man up and be physical play in and play out when they aren't getting room for error. We're lacking in that department now and everyone top to bottom needs to do better.

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='Dan_Bengals_NJ' post='701424' date='Sep 15 2008, 01:09 PM']They were better in a lot phases, which is good to see.

We got some tough breaks yesterday. The wind effects our game plan much more than it does theirs. Plus, in order to compensate for the wind, we were going to go to Utecht. But, we all see what happened there.

We have to face it.

In my opinion, right now our players have trouble executing play in and play out when things aren't going perfectly. Bratkowski's game plan makes everyone's job real easy when the deep ball is in full force. If we can hit deep passes to Chad early, the saftey has to drop back, the running lanes open, the intermediate passes become easy and eventually the defense gets tired and we can put the dagger through their heart. Our players have to learn how to man up and be physical play in and play out when they aren't getting room for error. We're lacking in that department now and everyone top to bottom needs to do better.[/quote]


So you're saying an offensive coordinator failed to account for swirling wings (forecast said 20-30mph winds since Friday) or the possibility of a windy and/or rainy day even though Hurricane Ike has been a national story for how long? Are you saying he has the same gameplan for each and every game? Are you saying that he designed the gameplan failing to account for even the POSSIBILITY that the weather could play a part? Like he just wished it wouldn't happen? I fail to believe this for one second but if that is the case, wouldn't you say thats incompetence of the highest order and therefore goes even furtehr against your argument that he's a good/great OC?

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Dan_Bengals_NJ' post='701424' date='Sep 15 2008, 11:39 AM']They were better in a lot phases, which is good to see.

We got some tough breaks yesterday. The wind effects our game plan much more than it does theirs. Plus, in order to compensate for the wind, we were going to go to Utecht. But, we all see what happened there.

We have to face it.

[b]In my opinion, right now our players have trouble executing play in and play out when things aren't going perfectly. Bratkowski's game plan makes everyone's job real easy when the deep ball is in full force. If we can hit deep passes to Chad early, the saftey has to drop back, the running lanes open, the intermediate passes become easy and eventually the defense gets tired and we can put the dagger through their heart.[/b] Our players have to learn how to man up and be physical play in and play out when they aren't getting room for error. We're lacking in that department now and everyone top to bottom needs to do better.[/quote]


I think you're kind of hitting the nail. Everything has to line up right for our offense to run well, and IMO that's a problem with coaching. They need to do a better job at adjusting and being able to play a style their not fully used to if need be. They like to go deep, but that's not always going to be there. When we get into december you have to be able to win games like yesterday's game. Until we develop a short passing game, we will struggle.

[-Dan_Bengals_FL-]

[quote name='IKOTA' post='701427' date='Sep 15 2008, 12:45 PM']So you're saying an offensive coordinator failed to account for swirling wings (forecast said 20-30mph winds since Friday) or the possibility of a windy and/or rainy day even though Hurricane Ike has been a national story for how long? Are you saying he has the same gameplan for each and every game? Are you saying that he designed the gameplan failing to account for even the POSSIBILITY that the weather could play a part? Like he just wished it wouldn't happen? I fail to believe this for one second but if that is the case, wouldn't you say thats incompetence of the highest order and therefore goes even furtehr against your argument that he's a good/great OC?[/quote]

Not what I was saying at all. He totally game planned for it, but things didn't break our way and players didn't consistantly execute said game plan.

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='701434' date='Sep 15 2008, 12:52 PM']I think you're kind of hitting the nail. Everything has to line up right for our offense to run well, and IMO that's a problem with coaching. They need to do a better job at adjusting and being able to play a style their not fully used to if need be. They like to go deep, but that's not always going to be there. When we get into december you have to be able to win games like yesterday's game. Until we develop a short passing game, we will struggle.[/quote]

While I'm sure the head coaches, coordinators and assistants all want to do better and will, my personal belief is that the players on offense that have been here are use to getting a margin of error because the game plan is working well. When the elements aren't perfect and we aren't getting a margin of error, these players need to learn all around how to execute play in and play out. That's what makes championship players different from just good individual players. Right now we just have good individual players. They are definitely pointed in the right direction by the people upstairs. They just need to go out and do it. And that goes for both sides of the ball.

[BengalBeotch]

[quote]If their DL is coming after the QB, you let their line come through and do some screens and make them think about it; if their LB's are coming up and making downhill plays on runs, then keep a steady diet of play actions to keep it in their minds that they never can be sure what you're doing; if they play with cushions, do short passes and let your receivers make a play; if they play tight, throw over their heads to keep 'em thinking. This is championship football that takes what the defense is giving and takes what is available.[/quote]

I've got a stupid question.... why did we abandon what we were good at in 2005? Our offense was more daring and aggressive... have they lost confidence in Carson changing the play at the line? No huddle?

[|ArmyBengal|]

Last time a team was this mismanged in Cincy was Rose's stint as GM, turns out he was suspected (I believe he did) of throwing games.

How's that for starting a maelstorm of speculation? It's either that or the NFL Conspiracy that's working against us. No other logical explanation has been offered.

[Abu-Zayd]

Brat apologists are dwindling, I am telling you...

His offense is NOT a championship offense. It is an occasionally explosive offense when players are superior to their opponents. It does not take their strengths and the opponents' weakness into proper consideration in designing a plan that KEEPS THE OPPONENT OFF BALANCE.

Keeping the opponent off balance is the KEY to winning. If they know what you are doing, you're done.

We can't just line up and expect to DEFEAT the opponent. Its like the days when war was everyone standing across from each other firing away until the last man was standing. Sam Wyche was brilliant at keeping the opponent off balance. Boomer made it easy and I am sure they fed off each other. Brat has been a hinderance to the development of Palmer, whom I believe was a better QB the first year he played than since then. He used to roll out and create. Now, if the play is not there, he either throws it 30 yards out of bounds or takes a sack or something dumb.

BOTTOM LINE: Defense did not produce, ML fired the coordinator. The Offense is not doing it, despite having a Puma for a WR (85), a 100+ pass receiver, receiver/runner RB, and highly paid OL!!

MARVIN, fire Bratkowski and see if another coordinator can do better, or leave yourself. Simple.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='Abu-Zayd' post='701484' date='Sep 15 2008, 02:35 PM']Brat apologists are dwindling, I am telling you...

His offense is NOT a championship offense. It is an occasionally explosive offense when players are superior to their opponents. It does not take their strengths and the opponents' weakness into proper consideration in designing a plan that KEEPS THE OPPONENT OFF BALANCE.

Keeping the opponent off balance is the KEY to winning. If they know what you are doing, you're done.

We can't just line up and expect to DEFEAT the opponent. Its like the days when war was everyone standing across from each other firing away until the last man was standing. Sam Wyche was brilliant at keeping the opponent off balance. Boomer made it easy and I am sure they fed off each other. Brat has been a hinderance to the development of Palmer, whom I believe was a better QB the first year he played than since then. He used to roll out and create. Now, if the play is not there, he either throws it 30 yards out of bounds or takes a sack or something dumb.

BOTTOM LINE: Defense did not produce, ML fired the coordinator. The Offense is not doing it, despite having a Puma for a WR (85), a 100+ pass receiver, receiver/runner RB, and highly paid OL!!

MARVIN, fire Bratkowski and see if another coordinator can do better, or leave yourself. Simple.[/quote]

I agree 100%. The Steelers take inferior talent than the Bengals on offense and their coordinator uses deception and disguised players to make the playoffs almost every year.

The Bengals offense is stale..it is time for a change......you think Obama would coordinate our offense??

[-Dan_Bengals_FL-]

The offense will once again improve in Week 3.

[CTBengalsFan]

[quote name='Dan_Bengals_NJ' post='702898' date='Sep 20 2008, 05:34 PM']The offense will once again improve in Week 3. [/quote]

Maybe we'll score 10 points!!!

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' post='702907' date='Sep 20 2008, 07:41 PM']Maybe we'll score 10 points!!![/quote]


Careful now, we're a top 10 offense!!!!!!!1 We'll score 13.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='IKOTA' post='702924' date='Sep 20 2008, 07:41 PM']Careful now, we're a top 10 offense!!!!!!!1 We'll score 13.[/quote]
I bet we score a lot more than that...I'm serious. I'm thinking along the lines of Perry 1 RU TD, 1 RE TD, Chad Re TD, TJ Re TD....4 TD's in all. This offense is too talented to not score points in bunches somewhere along the way, even in a losing season. The Oline was much, much better in the TEN game, but there was Mother Nature to contend with, and I think TEN's defense is just as good as the Giants is. We can move the ball...now we need to score, early and often.

I also see improvement in the defense (overall). We're still not getting to the QB enough, and we're prone to giving up the big play, which kills us. As long as they aren't on the field 40 minutes a game, they are generally stout. Their inability to stop the run late in games when we are losing is a direct reflection of our offense being unable to sustain drives. I honestly believe that changes from here on out...starting with the Giants being 2-1 after Sunday.

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='702935' date='Sep 20 2008, 11:07 PM']I bet we score a lot more than that...I'm serious. I'm thinking along the lines of Perry 1 RU TD, 1 RE TD, Chad Re TD, TJ Re TD....4 TD's in all. This offense is too talented to not score points in bunches somewhere along the way, even in a losing season. The Oline was much, much better in the TEN game, but there was Mother Nature to contend with, and I think TEN's defense is just as good as the Giants is. We can move the ball...now we need to score, early and often.

I also see improvement in the defense (overall). We're still not getting to the QB enough, and we're prone to giving up the big play, which kills us. As long as they aren't on the field 40 minutes a game, they are generally stout. Their inability to stop the run late in games when we are losing is a direct reflection of our offense being unable to sustain drives. I honestly believe that changes from here on out...starting with the Giants being 2-1 after Sunday.[/quote]


Quite the optimist, I like it! We'll see tomorrow.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='IKOTA' post='702939' date='Sep 20 2008, 10:26 PM']Quite the optimist, I like it! We'll see tomorrow.[/quote]
I just don't see how we can lose if our offense puts up more than 21 points...our pass defense has been pretty damn good, and at least in the first half of games, so has our run defense. It's all on the offense now.

[The Scales]

We will get straight up shelacked tomorrow. Bitch slapped.

24-7 Vs. the Titans? In your own house? ain't that sumpthing?

You think these tigers gonna come out and play? I ain't seen it yet.


Bob is too busy sucking the sauce to realize it needs to change. worked once long ago right bobby? Just keep dialing her up.
Change...or fail fucker.

This team from the top to the bottom is in serious need of some fucking meditation.

Close your eyes... turn everything off, disengage the clutch . . . now I'm going to give you a special word, and I want you to focus on this word, and analyze it's meaning, determine it's worth, if you can generate a feeling or emotion regarding this word you are doing good.... the word is...



C R E A T I V I T Y




Is it Poetic Irony that the man who's name graces the Coliseum was held by the league as a Pioneer, and now this team is a joke for the status quo, as stale as an 05 English muffin buried in the corner of your deep freeze.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='The Scales' post='702952' date='Sep 20 2008, 11:32 PM']We will get straight up shelacked tomorrow. Bitch slapped.

24-7 Vs. the Titans? In your own house? ain't that sumpthing?

You think these tigers gonna come out and play? I ain't seen it yet.


Bob is too busy sucking the sauce to realize it needs to change. worked once long ago right bobby? Just keep dialing her up.
Change...or fail fucker.

This team from the top to the bottom is in serious need of some fucking meditation.

Close your eyes... turn everything off, disengage the clutch . . . now I'm going to give you a special word, and I want you to focus on this word, and analyze it's meaning, determine it's worth, if you can generate a feeling or emotion regarding this word you are doing good.... the word is...



C R E A T I V I T Y




Is it Poetic Irony that the man who's name graces the Coliseum was held by the league as a Pioneer, and now this team is a joke for the status quo, as stale as an 05 English muffin buried in the corner of your deep freeze.[/quote]
70 mph winds have a way of interfering with the passing of a football...

[The Scales]

Titans found a way to win...simple as that.


I don't want to hear excuses . . . tired of them. Done with them.

Don't want to hear about stats, they don't tell the story.

Winning is all that matters. They start playing winning ball, that means they are playing good football, and good football, to me, is entertaining to watch.

This is shit. I give em 2 more games . . . they continue to suck I turn em off . . . they somehow start playing good, I'll watch.
I got it like that.

[Bengalmaniac]

Brat cant call the plays that actually work against an NFL defense>conclusion Brat cant coach in th NFL.
Simple isnt it !

[Palmer4HOF]

Please fire him ... now.

Great playcalling in overtime Brat ... thanks!!

[lslmustang]

I was waiting for him to get fired after last season... I was shocked he wasn't... and dissapointed...

[GoatGreen]

[quote name='lslmustang' post='703959' date='Sep 21 2008, 04:42 PM']I was waiting for him to get fired after last season... I was shocked he wasn't... and dissapointed...[/quote]

With years remaining on his contract?

New to the Bengals?

[lslmustang]

[quote name='GoatGreen' post='704041' date='Sep 21 2008, 07:36 PM']With years remaining on his contract?

New to the Bengals? [/quote]

Did Bresneshan have a contract??? I"m pretty sure he did and we fired him. Why wouldn't be fire Brat even if he has a contract. His can't be anywhere near what Marvin's is. I can understand that logic for Marvin but not for Brat....