scharm Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 [quote name='USN Bengal' post='749717' date='Feb 26 2009, 02:40 PM']That's just it S-nutz... all of the centers coming out are POTENTIALLY solid centers, but potential doesn't mean jack shit. Brown, Birk, Saturday ARE solid centers... a proven NFL quantity.[/quote] Brown not as good as you state. It's FA over hype. Think Odom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 [quote name='USN Bengal' post='749727' date='Feb 26 2009, 03:18 PM']They weren't saying that about that GM< last year when the Browns were 10-6 and had a shot at the playoffs now were they? As a matter of fact, there were plenty of people who were slamming the Bengals for NOT signing Steibach to the same contract. Revisionist history is always 20/20, ironic huh?[/quote] Signing an average guard like Steinbach was always dumb. Why would anyone actually use Cleveland's sound football record as support for signing Brown to a 7 million dollar contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiliMVP Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 [quote name='scharm' post='749726' date='Feb 26 2009, 04:18 PM']Most? Come on. You aren't going to speak for Raven Nation like you judge USC LB's character. Is this a Pattern? Any potential MLB prospect that might send Dhani packing (which he should be) and all of sudden there's evil in that player.[/quote] What the fuck? Go to their message boards and read their opinions, and then apoligize for being an ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USN Bengal Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 [quote name='scharm' post='749729' date='Feb 26 2009, 03:20 PM']Brown not as good as you state. It's FA over hype. Think Odom.[/quote] [b]Browns not as good as you state? Could you please provide some information to back up your point? Here is what I go on;[/b] [b]http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2009C.php[/b] 2009 Free Agency: Star rating is out of five. Age listing as of Sept. 1, 2009. Jason Brown, Ravens. Age: 26. One of the top young centers in the NFL, Jason Brown will either be franchised or offered a huge contract this offseason. Jeff Saturday, Colts. Age: 34. When Jeff Saturday was out of the lineup this season, it was really evident how much Peyton Manning and the Colts offense missed him. Saturday's age is his only concern, but I think Kevin Mawae is working out fine for the Titans. Matt Birk, Vikings. Age: 33. Matt Birk is no longer the player he once was, but with so many teams having center problems around the NFL, he'll be an upgrade for someone in 2009. Brad Meester, Jaguars. Age: 32. Brad Meester is a quality center, but has injury issues; he has missed 11 games the past two seasons. Geoff Hangartner, Panthers. Age: 27. One of the top backup centers in the NFL. Geoff Hangartner played very well in relief of an injured Ryan Kalil this season. Grey Ruegamer, Giants. Age: 33. One of the more capable backup offensive linemen in the NFL. Jake Grove, Raiders. Age: 29. Effective... when he's actually in the lineup. In a five-year span, Grove has missed 24 games. Duke Preston, Bills. Age: 27. In addition to sucking royally, Duke Preston ruined Buffalo's chances of kicking a field goal in the last seconds of the first half of the season finale because he started a fight with some of the Patriots defenders. Rudy Niswanger (RFA), Chiefs. Age: 26. There's a reason the Chiefs will be targeting a center in the 2009 NFL Draft. Eric Ghiaciuc, Bengals. Age: 28. Eric Ghiaciuc was a major liability for the Bengals in 2008. He'll sign on as a backup somewhere. Melvin Fowler, Bills. Age: 30. A poor center coming off shoulder surgery. The only positive Melvin Fowler brings to the table is starting experience (37 starts last three seasons). He'll be an OK backup somewhere. Al Johnson, Dolphins. Age: 30. Nick Leckey, Rams. Age: 27. Jeremy Newberry, Chargers. Age: 33. Justin Geisinger, Redskins. Age: 27. Lennie Friedman, Browns. Age: 33. Brett Romberg, Rams. Age: 29. Ben Wilkerson (ERFA), Falcons. Age: 26. Chris White, Texans. Age: 26. LeCharles Bentley, Browns. Age: 29. Andy McCollum, Lions. Age: 39. Cory Withrow, Rams. Age: 34. Steve McKinney, Seahawks. Age: 33. Mike Flynn, Patriots. Age: 35. [b]http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/fa?sort=grade&positionId=4[/b] Player Pos. FA Type Ht. Wt. Exp. 2008 Team 2009 Team Grade Comment Jason Brown C UFA 6-3 320 4 Ravens 77 Expert's Take Matt Birk C UFA 6-4 309 11 Vikings 76 Expert's Take Jeff Saturday C UFA 6-2 295 10 Colts 73 Expert's Take Brad Meester C UFA 6-3 295 9 Jaguars 71 Expert's Take Jake Grove C RFA 6-4 300 5 Raiders 66 Expert's Take Eric Ghiaciuc C UFA 6-4 303 4 Bengals 65 Expert's Take Expert's Take Brown has been a mainstay on the Ravens' offensive line for the past three seasons. He has an excellent combination of size, strength and athleticism. He works well with a low center of gravity to anchor effectively versus powerful bull rushers as well as getting movement off the line as a run-blocker. He has good pop and power initially to engage defenders as well as powerful leg drive at the point of attack. He is an instinctive player who understands leverage, angles and body positioning. He is best to short set defenders as a pass-blocker and can clog up the middle on combination blocking schemes. He will struggle at times with quicker interior stunters, when he is blocking one-on-one. He isn't always effective to chip up to the second level and stay connected to moving targets. He is a tough hard-nosed player who finishes well and brings attitude to the offensive line. [b]All the knowledgeable football prognosticators/pundits/people I know and listen to rank Brown as the best FA available and as one of the up and comers in the NFL... and WORTH the money he is asking to anchor a teams line and to call the shots. What are you basing your take on?[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 [quote name='akiliMVP' post='749735' date='Feb 26 2009, 03:31 PM']What the fuck? Go to their message boards and read their opinions, and then apoligize for being an ass.[/quote] Most? You said it. Just another example of how you'll stretch the truth when it comes to replacing Dhani Jones. Look in the mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 [quote]What are you basing your take on?[/quote] Except for the last meeting, the Ravens offense has been a cluster fuck against the Bengals defense that has trouble stopping even horrible offenses. He's no where as good as everyone is making him out to be. Solid? Sure? 6,7,8 million a year? I'll pass go get a better cheaper prospect in the draft or sign an aging proven to be great C for less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 [quote name='scharm' post='749758' date='Feb 26 2009, 05:03 PM']Except for the last meeting, the Ravens offense has been a cluster fuck against the Bengals defense that has trouble stopping even horrible offenses. He's no where as good as everyone is making him out to be. Solid? Sure? 6,7,8 million a year? I'll pass go get a better cheaper prospect in the draft or sign an aging proven to be great C for less.[/quote] I'm not in favor of spending that much money on him, but you sure are making a lot of generalizations. So Brown single handledly lost those games to the Bengals? The rest of the oline and shitty QB play had nothing to do with it? The Bengals playing well had nothing to do with it? You're sitting here fighting that "he's not one of the best at his position in the NFL" when the simple truth is, you know damn well that you can't prove he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 [quote name='Bengals1181' post='749759' date='Feb 26 2009, 05:11 PM']I'm not in favor of spending that much money on him, but you sure are making a lot of generalizations. So Brown single handledly lost those games to the Bengals? The rest of the oline and shitty QB play had nothing to do with it? The Bengals playing well had nothing to do with it? You're sitting here fighting that "he's not one of the best at his position in the NFL" when the simple truth is, you know damn well that you can't prove he isn't.[/quote] Generalizations? So now we are going to call that out? They had trouble blocking the Bengals front 7, major trouble. That's what I know, we all saw it. Since we are on the topic what makes him worth 7 million what sets him a part from the rest of the group? No one can prove that he's among the best either? So I default to not paying him 7 million a year. Sue me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 [quote name='scharm' post='749758' date='Feb 26 2009, 06:03 PM']Except for the last meeting, the Ravens offense has been a cluster fuck against the Bengals defense that has trouble stopping even horrible offenses. He's no where as good as everyone is making him out to be. Solid? Sure? 6,7,8 million a year? I'll pass go get a better cheaper prospect in the draft or sign an aging proven to be great C for less.[/quote] how much less will "an aging proven to be great C" be? birk made 6 last year, saturday made 5. what about continuity? it'd be nice not to have to change "the qb of the o-line" every other year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiliMVP Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 [quote name='scharm' post='749757' date='Feb 26 2009, 05:56 PM']Most? You said it. Just another example of how you'll stretch the truth when it comes to replacing Dhani Jones. Look in the mirror.[/quote] I said most yes. Read the Ravens forums. Most, if not all, want Brown, not Scott. That is a fact. I'm not stretching the truth nor have I ever said he would not be an improvement over Jones. Let's get back to the subject at hand. Jason Brown is a good center who is young and fills a major need. You don't have to write the checks so stop bitching about the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 [quote name='scharm' post='749761' date='Feb 26 2009, 05:16 PM']Generalizations? So now we are going to call that out? They had trouble blocking the Bengals front 7, major trouble. That's what I know, we all saw it. Since we are on the topic what makes him worth 7 million what sets him a part from the rest of the group? [b]No one can prove that he's among the best either?[/b] So I default to not paying him 7 million a year. Sue me.[/quote] exactly my point. You're whining about others not being able to prove their stance but you show even less evidence to back up your side. As for your first comment, again you missed the point. The center can't do it all on his own. If the tackles suck (which theirs did at the time) of course even a defense like the bengals will get to them. The fact that you're trying to blame it all on Brown shows how weak your dog in the fight is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 [quote name='TrustNMarvin' post='749787' date='Feb 26 2009, 06:18 PM']how much less will "an aging proven to be great C" be? birk made 6 last year, saturday made 5. what about continuity? it'd be nice not to have to change "the qb of the o-line" every other year.[/quote] I wouldn't pay the aging centers that much either. Continuity is going to be hard to maintain at the most important spots if you have a 7 million dollar center and 7 million dollar guard. [quote name='akiliMVP' post='749798' date='Feb 26 2009, 06:32 PM']I said most yes. Read the Ravens forums. Most, if not all, want Brown, not Scott. That is a fact. I'm not stretching the truth nor have I ever said he would not be an improvement over Jones. Let's get back to the subject at hand. Jason Brown is a good center who is young and fills a major need. You don't have to write the checks so stop bitching about the money.[/quote] You said most don't like Scott. That is a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalsfansince68 Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 [quote name='Bengals1181' post='749810' date='Feb 26 2009, 06:46 PM'][color="#0000FF"]exactly my point. You're whining about others not being able to prove their stance but you show even less evidence to back up your side.[/color][/quote] He's right scharmey, you have harped endlessly that we can't prove Brown is one of the better options and you clearly have not shown that he is not. This argument is not only getting old, it's going nowhere fast. The point is moot. We will likely not offer Brown or Scott enough money to cause either of them to notice and Mike Goff a'int the answer here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 [quote]exactly my point. You're whining about others not being able to prove their stance but you show even less evidence to back up your side.[/quote] Less evidence? True or False? The Bengals defense was not a great unit over his starting years, yet they struggled to block the front 7. True or False? Brown has never made a pro bowl True or False? There are several center prospects and also FAs that can also be considered upgrades to the previous Bengals Center. My side is that he isn't the type of player that deserves elite money given his current career. Do you think he is elite now? Now everyone wants to pay him because of the division, young, and need there's nothing that says he is currently the best or among the best centers. In fact that is an admission that you are overpaying him today based on what could be. IMO, you don't do that for a Center when you already have done it for a guard and there are several other viable options that could be cheaper and yet provide the same result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 [quote]He's right scharmey, you have harped endlessly that we can't prove Brown is one of the better options and you clearly have not shown that he is not.[/quote] Were you asleep during the Ravens/Bengals game the past few seasons? The Ravens have not been getting great line play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalsfansince68 Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 [quote name='scharm' post='749820' date='Feb 26 2009, 07:03 PM'][color="#0000FF"]Where you a sleep during the Ravens/Bengals game the past few seasons. [/color][/quote] Great grammar, guy. You still haven't proven a thing and I wonder why you seem so desperate to prove yourself right and everyone who sees something different wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 [quote name='bengalsfansince68' post='749821' date='Feb 26 2009, 07:08 PM']Great grammar, guy. You still haven't proven a thing and I wonder why you seem so desperate to prove yourself right and everyone who sees something different wrong.[/quote] How sad for you. This is just my point of view and I enjoy discussing it. I know you like to get crabby and grumpy but that's on your side of the fence, that's up in your head. I think it would be stupid to pay that type of money to Jason Brown given what he's accomplished, what else is available and what the Bengals need. But hey, that's my Point of View. I certainly can accept the opposite point, but not agree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalsfansince68 Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 [quote name='scharm' post='749823' date='Feb 26 2009, 07:16 PM'][color="#0000FF"]How sad for you. [/color][/quote] No need to feel sad for me unless it's because we have read the same point 22 times in about 12 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorclaws Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Haven't seen this posted yet, but Saturday has been resigned by the colts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBZ Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='749722' date='Feb 26 2009, 03:56 PM']Well the only thing I can say, is that 4 weeks ago no one had a problem with putting any guy who has the same question marks as these Cs in charge of protecting Palmer's blind side. And the thing that comes into play here is do we need a pro-bowl type player, or will an NFL caliber player suffice? For 5 million a year this is a no-brainer, but now that we're talking tackle money at the C spot, I think its a legit option to forgoe pursuing Brown and take a C in the draft.[/quote] I don't know if Brown will command $7M or not...But at 26, $6M per year for 5 years could be a good investment. Personally, I think he does have a shot at the pro bowl in front of the right QB. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 [quote name='bengalsfansince68' post='749827' date='Feb 26 2009, 07:22 PM']No need to feel sad for me unless it's because we have read the same point 22 times in about 12 hours.[/quote] You enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BENGALS666 Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Saturday is off the table... [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3938063"]Colts sign Saturday[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 [quote name='scharm' post='749820' date='Feb 26 2009, 07:03 PM']Were you asleep during the Ravens/Bengals game the past few seasons? The Ravens have not been getting great line play.[/quote] damn that Jason Brown. Why couldn't he block our front 7 by himself like all the top centers do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 [quote][size=5][b]Jason Brown headed to St. Louis[/b][/size] Friday, February 27, 2009 Posted By Albert Breer 12:15 AM Free agent center/guard Jason Brown will kick off his free-agent tour on Friday with a visit with the St. Louis Rams, according to agent Kevin Omell. Brown -- considered by some to be the best lineman on the market -- is likely to command a big, multiyear deal. Brown, who turns 26 in June, started in 2006 and 2007 as a guard for the Ravens, before moving to center to replace Mike Flynn in 2008. At the outset of free agency, the Vikings, Dolphins and Redskins also showed strong interest in Brown.[/quote] [url="http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/real_scouts/entry/view/17506/jason_brown_headed_to_st._louis"]http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/real_scou...ed_to_st._louis[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 [quote][size=5][b]Jason Brown Suddenly in a Bind[/b][/size] Friday, February 27, 2009 Posted By Mike Florio 4:10 PM The good news for center/guard Jason Brown is that the St. Louis Rams are willing to pay him $7 million per year. The bad news for center/guard Jason Brown is that no one else is. A league source tells ProFootballTalk.com that Brown doesn't want to play for the Rams, and thus wants someone/anyone to step up and match the offer St. Louis has made to him. Per the source, Brown was hoping that the Ravens would match the number that the Rams put on the table. But the Ravens haven't, and apparently won't. Other teams are interested in Brown, but not at the same level that Rams have demonstrated. So Brown is in a bind. Does he take the money from a team for which he doesn't want to play? Or does he take less from someone else?[/quote] [url="http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/real_scouts/entry/view/17581/jason_brown_suddenly_in_a_bind"]http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/real_scou...denly_in_a_bind[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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