scharm Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='SouthPaw' timestamp='1299529267' post='975570'] No, you are right, he did not go to a junior college, but all the same warning signs that are being discussed with Nick fairley were there with Andre smith and......THEY WERE IGNORED! Am i surprised? Hell no. They are going to do it again in this draft when Fairley does slip. Also Corey Dillon and Chad JOHNSON may be the two best at their position in franchise history, but they are also the two biggest malcontents in this franchise's history. Not saying they were totally wrong, but its something to keep in mind. [/quote] Not from the report posted. There is exactly 0 things in common with Andre Smith. The focus is on being a JUCO player and what comes along with that reputation. Andre Smith was not a JUCO player. Andre Smith missed his bowl game. Showed up out of shape and left the combine unexplained. Andre had a numbskull for an agent that he switched then switched back to. Andre Smith had infamous bad pro day. Chad Johnson and Corey Dillon did nothing different than what Carson Palmer is doing today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocalBengalEd Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Fairley game tape is so impressive u gotta take him.at 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1299542975' post='975621'] I bet he could only do 18-20 reps. A "top-rated" DT should be doing more and he/his agent know it, thus him not participating. [/quote] played with a shoulder injury through the later part of the season and that was well documented. Had to leave the Alabama game and came back to play and play quite well. That might have something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1299546567' post='975641'] you sound like a little girl with that continual "cheap shot" whining. so the guy plays until the whistle, big shit. it's not flag football, so get over it. fairley played the game the way he was taught to play it by his college coach, tracy rocker...a former lombardi and outland award winner himself, not to mention he made the NFL all rookie team. i'd suggest he knows a bit more about the game than you.... especially considering the work he did with failey this year. he must have, since he got offered a DL coaching job with the titans, who perennially post some of the best defensive lines in the NFL. the only reason fairley roughed up quarterbacks is because teams couldn't block the SOB. he faced double teams all year, even triple teams at times, and teams still couldn't keep him from making an influence every game. you are concentrating on all the wrong things. would you discount every player that came from a juco program, just because they are one year wonders? if you did, you'd unwisely miss out on a helluva lot of potential NFL players, both past and present. one year is clearly enough body of work to judge them by, IF they played consistently throughout the year against good competition. of course you have to be willing to spend the time to watch that boring thing you call "college football" to attempt to do so. [/quote] he is a dirty player. But there are plenty of dirty players in the league and those teams that have them continue to play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalsfan850 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='GoBengals' timestamp='1299544867' post='975632'] one year wonder cheap shot artist... its pretty disturbing people want to draft this guy 4th overall.. [/quote] jason mentioned it already. as long as it's big ben, flacco, and whoever else we play on the other end of it then by all means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1299514169' post='975503'] yeah, this is the same BS that happened with Andre Smith. National Media and scouts tried to talk him down pointing to lack of work ethic and personality issues. Good thing we didn't fall for that crap. [/quote] First of all it is ludicrous to think the national media is trying to talk down a player without a reason. Its one thing for a team or a rouge reporter or two to talk down a player but this seems to be a consensus effort. If there is some smoke there may be some fire. Not saying that is the case here but it certainly is something that should be looked at before we pick the guy. Fairly doesn't seem to be nearly the problem that Smith was. All the crap that happened before we picked Smith should have been enough to pass on him. Dude was mental. Fairly doesn't seem to be in that same class but he does have some issues. Is it enough to push him down the board? Don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='bengalsfan850' timestamp='1299564885' post='975671'] jason mentioned it already. as long as it's big ben, flacco, and whoever else we play on the other end of it then by all means [/quote] What has Flacco ever done to hate on? Hate Phillip Rivers cocky ass.... Ben for sure... but Flacco? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1299600749' post='975727'] First of all it is ludicrous to think the national media is trying to talk down a player without a reason. Its one thing for a team or a [b]rouge reporter[/b] or two to talk down a player but this seems to be a consensus effort. If there is some smoke there may be some fire. Not saying that is the case here but it certainly is something that should be looked at before we pick the guy. Fairly doesn't seem to be nearly the problem that Smith was. All the crap that happened before we picked Smith should have been enough to pass on him. Dude was mental. Fairly doesn't seem to be in that same class but he does have some issues. Is it enough to push him down the board? Don't know. [/quote] Is this the opposite of "yellow journalism?" ...anyways scouts and teams are putting out soooo much smoke right now about players and "draftniks" are standing at the ready to gobble it up. No one outside of the organizations can know what to believe... even though it is fun trying and gives us something to talk about in the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1299601451' post='975731'] Is this the opposite of "yellow journalism?" ...anyways scouts and teams are putting out soooo much smoke right now about players and "draftniks" are standing at the ready to gobble it up. No one outside of the organizations can know what to believe... even though it is fun trying and gives us something to talk about in the offseason. [/quote] LOL, yeah spell check isn't very good at detecting the difference between rouge and rogue. I agree that they blow smoke in regards to their opinion of how players have performed at the combine. That can be very subjective. Its a bit different when you start talking about character issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluhartz Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1299601369' post='975730'] What has Flacco ever done to hate on? Hate Phillip Rivers cocky ass.... Ben for sure... but Flacco? [/quote] plays for the Rats... that should just about do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1299601369' post='975730'] What has Flacco ever done to hate on? Hate Phillip Rivers cocky ass.... Ben for sure... but Flacco? [/quote] It's that goddamn unibrow. As for Fairley, the media dust-up is just preparation so they can tear into the Bengals when they take him. Then when he makes the Pro Bowl or wins DROTY, they will be able to laud the team for "winning on a risky bet". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1299600749' post='975727'] First of all it is ludicrous to think the national media is trying to talk down a player without a reason. Its one thing for a team or a rouge reporter or two to talk down a player but this seems to be a consensus effort. If there is some smoke there may be some fire. Not saying that is the case here but it certainly is something that should be looked at before we pick the guy. Fairly doesn't seem to be nearly the problem that Smith was. All the crap that happened before we picked Smith should have been enough to pass on him. Dude was mental. Fairly doesn't seem to be in that same class but he does have some issues. Is it enough to push him down the board? Don't know. [/quote] that's what happens when you're king of the hill. i've seen it happen time after time. the major knock on nick fairley (and bowers, too) is they were both established early on as the two elite players in this draft. the thing that's important for me, in judging fairley, is this. he and marcell dareus both played in the same division, against the same competition. so their body of work is comparable. while it's true they played different positions, their assignments were similar enough to form an opinion. also entering into this comparison is the fact that i watched the majority of both their games throughout the year. dareus had a fairly uneventful year, by comparison. he played on an alabama defense that was stocked to the gills. he was not targeted by offensive coordinators like fairley was. in spite of all that, fairley still was the clear standout of the two, and it wasn't just for a couple games. it was for damned near every comparable measure throughout the year. fairley had less help and was more targeted. he faced more double (and sometimes triple) teams than dareus did. he had over twice the tackles, in spite of teams trying to run away from him. he had twice the tackles for loss. he had 2 1/2 times the sacks. the important thing is it wasn't just a matter of comparing the numbers... you saw all that when you watched the games. this decision is a no brainer for me. i really like marcell and think he's a fine player, but he's a different breed of cat than nick is. they do different things. marcell's a much better hole plugger. he's more advanced in understanding multiple concepts and schemes. he's clearly more versatile. but at the end of the day, those aren't the reasons why i want a DT in this draft. i want to add nick's gap shooting ability to the mix. i think he gets the best jump off the ball of anyone in this entire draft. i didn't formulate that opinion with a stopwatch timing 10 yd splits with guys in tennis shoes and shorts. there's an explosion that happens there that's a beautiful thing to watch. it's rare...very rare for a defensive tackle. i also think nick is incredible at finishing plays, especially closing the gap on the QB. and you don't see nick getting juked much for a speed guy, and that's really important. i'm not so worried about the knocks on his not being as polished. defensive tackle is one of the easier pro positions to make an early impact at. i think nick will pick up all that they can throw at him. it's no secret who i'd like to take at #4, and hasn't been for a long time. i still remain worried we won't get that option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='fluhartz' timestamp='1299602405' post='975734'] plays for the Rats... that should just about do it. [/quote] ...but he always throws us so many interceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1299600749' post='975727'] First of all it is ludicrous to think the national media is trying to talk down a player without a reason. Its one thing for a team or a rouge reporter or two to talk down a player but this seems to be a consensus effort. If there is some smoke there may be some fire. Not saying that is the case here but it certainly is something that should be looked at before we pick the guy. Fairly doesn't seem to be nearly the problem that Smith was. All the crap that happened before we picked Smith should have been enough to pass on him. Dude was mental. Fairly doesn't seem to be in that same class but he does have some issues. Is it enough to push him down the board? Don't know. [/quote] Smith and Fairley are entirely different worlds. First, Andre had bigger red flags but also much more proven talent. You can look back at this board during that shitty 0-8 start in 2008 and posters wanting to lose every game just so they could be assured to select him No. 1 overall. Without the crystal ball, I'd take Andre again at 6. Keep in mind, I bash the guy left and right on this board. Fairley is one major defender in a pool of about 6 major defenders that can make the case for top 5 selection (Bowers, Quinn, Fairley, Peterson, Miller, and Alabama DT). It's going to be a pick your favor type situation. Looking back when Andre was taken the pool of players targeted for the top 10 didn't appear to be that strong given the pre draft analysis. This year and last year appear to have players that it's just a matter when they are taken then the next team is going to select the player that didn't get chosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1299604160' post='975744'] ...but he always throws us so many interceptions. [/quote] x2 Cincinnati should want Flacco to remain under center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USN Bengal Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 I am so fucking tired of our team NOT having a AFC North identity. The stealers always have the "dirtiest" players (and top ranked)defenses in the NFL, the rats have had one of the most "intimidating and thuggish" defenses in the NFL. I want some bad ass, punch your grandma in the vagina, stomp a mudhole in your ass then walk it dry, down and dirty muthafucka's playing for us. Let's face it... I hate the stealers, and the rats (although not as much), but until we play at the level they do, we will REMAIN the "Mike Brown owned B-U-N-G-L-E-S." Give me some Fairley, then find the nastiest "Conrad Dobler" wannabe O-lineman, and then let's build from there. If the competition is playing at the level that makes them perennial contenders, than dammit, so should we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John~Galt Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1299603986' post='975742'] that's what happens when you're king of the hill. i've seen it happen time after time. the major knock on nick fairley (and bowers, too) is they were both established early on as the two elite players in this draft. the thing that's important for me, in judging fairley, is this. he and marcell dareus both played in the same division, against the same competition. so their body of work is comparable. while it's true they played different positions, their assignments were similar enough to form an opinion. also entering into this comparison is the fact that i watched the majority of both their games throughout the year. dareus had a fairly uneventful year, by comparison. he played on an alabama defense that was stocked to the gills. he was not targeted by offensive coordinators like fairley was. in spite of all that, fairley still was the clear standout of the two, and it wasn't just for a couple games. it was for damned near every comparable measure throughout the year. fairley had less help and was more targeted. he faced more double (and sometimes triple) teams than dareus did. he had over twice the tackles, in spite of teams trying to run away from him. he had twice the tackles for loss. he had 2 1/2 times the sacks. the important thing is it wasn't just a matter of comparing the numbers... you saw all that when you watched the games. this decision is a no brainer for me. i really like marcell and think he's a fine player, but he's a different breed of cat than nick is. they do different things. marcell's a much better hole plugger. he's more advanced in understanding multiple concepts and schemes. he's clearly more versatile. but at the end of the day, those aren't the reasons why i want a DT in this draft. i want to add nick's gap shooting ability to the mix. i think he gets the best jump off the ball of anyone in this entire draft. i didn't formulate that opinion with a stopwatch timing 10 yd splits with guys in tennis shoes and shorts. there's an explosion that happens there that's a beautiful thing to watch. it's rare...very rare for a defensive tackle. i also think nick is incredible at finishing plays, especially closing the gap on the QB. and you don't see nick getting juked much for a speed guy, and that's really important. i'm not so worried about the knocks on his not being as polished. defensive tackle is one of the easier pro positions to make an early impact at. i think nick will pick up all that they can throw at him. it's no secret who i'd like to take at #4, and hasn't been for a long time. i still remain worried we won't get that option. [/quote] Dude you are such a Buckeye homer. oh wait.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='USN Bengal' timestamp='1299606575' post='975764'] I am so fucking tired of our team NOT having a [b]NFC[/b] North identity. The stealers always have the "dirtiest" players (and top ranked)defenses in the NFL, the rats have had one of the most "intimidating and thuggish" defenses in the NFL. I want some bad ass, punch your grandma in the vagina, stomp a mudhole in your ass then walk it dry, down and dirty muthafucka's playing for us. Let's face it... I hate the stealers, and the rats (although not as much), but until we play at the level they do, we will REMAIN the "Mike Brown owned B-U-N-G-L-E-S." Give me some Fairley, then find the nastiest "Conrad Dobler" wannabe O-lineman, and then let's build from there. If the competition is playing at the level that makes them perennial contenders, than dammit, so should we. [/quote] It's a good thing we are in the AFC North then! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USN Bengal Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1299608442' post='975775'] It's a good thing we are in the AFC North then! lol [/quote] Punk! fixed it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Harley| Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='USN Bengal' timestamp='1299606575' post='975764'] I want some bad ass, punch your grandma in the vagina [/quote] I don't know why that is funny, but it made me laugh. I guess I wasn't expecting it. At least you didn't use the C word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='USN Bengal' timestamp='1299608623' post='975777'] Punk! fixed it... [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='John~Galt' timestamp='1299607300' post='975770'] Dude you are such a Buckeye homer. oh wait.... [/quote] no, you were right the first time....I AM, and have been for over 50 years. i just liked that alabama team this year because they were fun to watch. there's no doubt in my mind they were the best college team on paper, but we all know how that works out sometimes. throw all the records out, i still believe alabama was the most talented team in college football last year. i started the season out with an eyeball on dareus, too, because he had a decent sophmore campaign, played so well in the NC game, and went into 2010 as college football's top DL. so he was a subject of interest to me. marcell didn't wear that crown for very long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='Harley' timestamp='1299608987' post='975782'] I don't know why that is funny, but it made me laugh. I guess I wasn't expecting it. At least you didn't use the C word. [/quote] yeah, i had a good laugh over that, too. USN comes up with some original ones, i'll give him that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USN Bengal Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote] I don't know why that is funny, but it made me laugh. I guess I wasn't expecting it. At least you didn't use the C word.[/quote] [quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1299610299' post='975792'] yeah, i had a good laugh over that, too. USN comes up with some original ones, i'll give him that. [/quote] I can't stand the C word either Harley... thanks bengaled, but can't say that was an original statement, heard it somewhere over the years, just goes to show you what you might hear after 20 years in the in the service of Uncle Sam and coming up on 5 decades on this earth. What can I say, I'm incorrigible, lewd, rude, vicious, and socially irredeemable... and damn good at it and proud of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='USN Bengal' timestamp='1299610873' post='975794'] I can't stand the C word either Harley... thanks bengaled, but can't say that was an original statement, heard it somewhere over the years, just goes to show you what you might hear after 20 years in the in the service of Uncle Sam and coming up on 5 decades on this earth. What can I say, I'm incorrigible, lewd, rude, vicious, and socially irredeemable... and damn good at it and proud of it! [/quote] ahh, i won't hold that against ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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