Jason Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Jordan Shipley! http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/23/drop-percentage/ [quote][size="5"][b]Drop Percentage: Wide Receivers[/b][/size] We’ve recently been running a series of articles, breaking down aspects of player performance, and next up we’re looking at wide receivers. Following on from an article we did last year, it seemed a good place to start would be in breaking down the drop issues wide receivers have. Now the drop stat in itself is an interesting one. A glance can suggest which receivers have the more questionable hands in the league, but it’s not exactly fair to class all guys with 12 drops, for example, together. After all, one could have 24 receptions, and the other 124. So in one of our simpler metric type articles, we’re bringing you our Drop Percentage for all receivers who had at least 50 catchable balls thrown their way (catchable balls determined by just adding together the number of receptions and drops). Dependable in 2010 It’s not shocking to see that up near the top, we have a couple of guys who do most of their damage in catching shorter, underneath routes. Still, you have to give credit to Jordan Shipley and Earl Bennett for holding onto everything thrown their way. That’s the kind of dependency [b](Insert: I think you mean dependability??)[/b] that should make life a lot easier for a potential rookie starter at quarterback in Cincinnati, and you would think it might make Jay Cutler seem a little less erratic. When discussing the top receivers in a list like this, you’re never far from mentioning Larry Fitzgerald. Despite dealing with some terrible quarterback play that wasn’t just inaccurate, but would lead you into harms way often, Fitzgerald did more than you’d expect most mortals to do by dropping only three of the 90 catchable balls thrown his way. This was good enough for fourth, behind another guy who always finishes highly on this list, Kevin Walter. Indeed, with their two best receivers in the top fifteen, you can’t argue the Texans aren’t helping out Matt Schaub in this regard. Walter has become one of the league’s most reliable targets, while Andre Johnson eliminated some of the drops that had always been a part of his game. Somehow Johnson managed to improve this season, and he did so on an injured ankle. Elsewhere in the Top 10, you have a couple more guys who play mainly in the slot (Mike Thomas and Eddie Royal), and perhaps more surprisingly, one of the leagues’ best deep threats in 2010, Brandon Lloyd. The catches tend to be a bit harder the further downfield you go, but Lloyd displayed a previously unseen consistency to make plays on balls that you didn’t think he had any right to. Just outside the top ten is a name that will surprise a few, Braylon Edwards. The New York Jet developed a reputation for drops after a 2008 that saw his star fall in Cleveland. He didn’t help himself with the odd terrible (but highly publicized) drop in 2009 and even now the label of a guy with bad hands sticks (every drop of his receives more press time than other top guys). Remarkable then that he only dropped four balls all year, a better rate than either of the other Jets to make this list. The ever excellent Santonio Holmes dropped eight balls and finished in 42nd, while the normally reliable Jerricho Cotchery put 10 on the ground for the third worst number in the league. Edwards’ name will come up later, making his improvement in New York all the more stark. [code]Wide Receivers, Top 15 Drop Percentage, 2010 Rank Player Team Receptions Drops Catchable Drop % 1 Jordan Shipley CIN 52 0 52 0.00%[/code] [/quote] There is more to the article, click the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 TO has the 3rd most drops over the last 3 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 That has to be wrong. What about the drop Shipley had against Pittsburgh when he got sandwiched and the drop against Cleveland when TJ Ward lit him up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdcJdn2AkZ0[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted May 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 [quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1306845535' post='995412'] That has to be wrong. What about the drop Shipley had against Pittsburgh when he got sandwiched and the drop against Cleveland when TJ Ward lit him up? [/quote] I don't know if they count those as drops. Wasn't there a penalty on the Ward hit? I know an accepted penalty does not count. It also only counts catchable passes. If they feel a pass was not catchable it does not count. Getting "lit up" may impact that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 [quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1306845535' post='995412'] That has to be wrong. What about the drop Shipley had against Pittsburgh when he got sandwiched and the drop against Cleveland when TJ Ward lit him up? [/quote] as Jason mentions, the TJ Ward one had a penalty, so it doesn't count as an official pass in the record books. As for the Pittsburgh one, I personally remember it not being a great pass (though I thought he should have caught it as he got both hands on it). It may have been classified as "uncatchable" by the people doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 I forgot about the penalty. Even now I don't remember it, but I'll take your guys' word for it. I think what happened on the Pittsburgh "catch" was Shipley ran an in/slant/funny looking curl and stopped in the zone. When Carson threw it, Shipley was just getting around and it looked like it was slightly behind from where he as turning. I thought I remember it hitting him in the body/right arm area and then it dropping after a hit. Regardless, Shipley does have some good hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 The Bengals should have a great WR corp with respect to catching passes next year. Shipley and Green catch everything thrown their way, and Shipley caught something like 20 of the 25 passes thrown his way last year, good pass or not (post catch is another quesiton). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorclaws Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 I think they're only counting unforced drops.... so if you getting hit causes the incompletion they don't count it as a drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1306847564' post='995416'] as Jason mentions, the TJ Ward one had a penalty, so it doesn't count as an official pass in the record books. As for the Pittsburgh one, I personally remember it not being a great pass (though I thought he should have caught it as he got both hands on it). It may have been classified as "uncatchable" by the people doing this. [/quote] if i remember correctly the defender got a hand on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 [quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1306864580' post='995455'] if i remember correctly the defender got a hand on it. [/quote] tough to tell. http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010110800/2010/REG9/steelers@bengals#tab:watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1306864923' post='995456'] tough to tell. http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010110800/2010/REG9/steelers@bengals#tab:watch [/quote] 4th and 5 and palmer throws the friggin ball late as shipley's already calling for it. notice how shipley's clearly wide open at the 1st down marker. when the pass finally gets there, some three yards later, shipley gets sandwiched between two defenders. looks like the collision plus the other defender's hand happening almost simultaneously has a factor in the incompletion. i can see why they didn't count that one against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 [quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1306865977' post='995457'] 4th and 5 and palmer throws the friggin ball late as shipley's already calling for it. notice how shipley's clearly wide open at the 1st down marker. when the pass finally gets there, some three yards later, shipley gets sandwiched between two defenders. looks like the collision plus the other defender's hand happening almost simultaneously has a factor in the incompletion. i can see why they didn't count that one against him. [/quote] I wouldn't exactly call him open there. If carson throws it where you want him to he's still getting led right into a forearm from James Harrison. He'd have taken a much harder hit on the play than he actually did. Also looks partly to be blame of a playcall that had a designed dropback out of a shotgun and Carson didn't throw it as we as dropping back at the time. I don't know what Shipley's route was, but if he crosses in front of Harrison he probably scores on the play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1306866947' post='995459'] I wouldn't exactly call him open there. [/quote] we differ on what tyhe tape is showing then. he sure looks open to me. they didn't need a TD, there, all they needed was 5 yardsand it was easily obtainable if the ball comes out of palmer's hand in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 [quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1307043962' post='995726'] we differ on what tyhe tape is showing then. he sure looks open to me. they didn't need a TD, there, all they needed was 5 yardsand it was easily obtainable if the ball comes out of palmer's hand in time. [/quote] he's open in that no one is guarding him at the time you wanted Carson to throw it. However, if he throws it there Shipley is getting decapitated by James Harrison while trying to catch it. For reference, if he hits Shipley at the 8 or 9 yard line (first down is the 7), he's getting leveled by Harrison a yard later, and may or may not make it over the first down marker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 Sorry Jordan, the best hands in the NFL belong to: [IMG]http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy35/mjmoore530/Dolphincheerleader.jpg[/IMG] ^ [it's a turd] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincity Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 Palmer threw him into coverage. IMO, if he gets it out quicker Shipley was setting down in the zone but CP continued to lead him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texbengal Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 [quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1306865977' post='995457'] 4th and 5 and palmer throws the friggin ball late as shipley's already calling for it. notice how shipley's clearly wide open at the 1st down marker. when the pass finally gets there, some three yards later, shipley gets sandwiched between two defenders. looks like the collision plus the other defender's hand happening almost simultaneously has a factor in the incompletion. i can see why they didn't count that one against him. [/quote] I remember that play well, and I wouldn't call that a "drop" - Harrison plastered him, and it was a very tough catch besides. On the TJ Ward hit, that was definitely a penalty. Ship was knocked out of the game, and he missed the next week (maybe more - I forget) -- but it was a PI penalty and I believe that gave the Bengals the ball at the 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 [quote name='cincity' timestamp='1307054976' post='995732'] Palmer threw him into coverage. IMO, if he gets it out quicker Shipley was setting down in the zone but CP continued to lead him. [/quote] I agree. The throw was a skosh too late and allowed the defenders to crush Shipley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 [quote name='texbengal' timestamp='1307056018' post='995733'] I remember that play well, and I wouldn't call that a "drop" - Harrison plastered him, and it was a very tough catch besides. On the TJ Ward hit, that was definitely a penalty. Ship was knocked out of the game, and he missed the next week (maybe more - I forget) -- but it was a PI penalty and I believe that gave the Bengals the ball at the 1. [/quote] oh, but be certain, if he had caught the ball while he was open, some 3 yards before that, his career would have ended because harrison would have plastered him much, much worse! honest, tex, i shit you not! that's why carson palmer, the QB whose shit smells like roses, threw the fucking ball late as he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 [quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1307058986' post='995737'] oh, but be certain, if he had caught the ball while he was open, some 3 yards before that, his career would have ended because harrison would have plastered him much, much worse! honest, tex, i shit you not! that's why carson palmer, the QB whose shit smells like roses, threw the fucking ball late as he did. [/quote] since you insist on being a douchebag, I'll kindly remind you that my first post in this thread criticized the pass from Carson. I don't know why you have such trouble acting like an adult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1307059214' post='995739'] since you insist on being a douchebag, I'll kindly remind you that my first post in this thread criticized the pass from Carson. I don't know why you have such trouble acting like an adult. [/quote] i hope that fence doesn't have barb wire on it. your nuts are in trouble! so tell us... what's your stance then? you're certainly not being very clear. did carson throw the ball late, or not? was gaining the 1st down enough, or was he correct in trying to instead force the pass LATER into double coverage. do you really think if he threw the ball when shipley was open, approaching the 1st down marker, shipley would have been "DECAPITATED" by harrison and suffered a worse shot than the one he took in the taylor/harrison sandwich where carson delivered the ball? i only mocked you because you're acting ridiculous, here. you're juvenile insults are even more ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 [quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1307060374' post='995746'] i hope that fence doesn't have barb wire on it. your nuts are in trouble! so tell us... what's your stance then? you're certainly not being very clear. did carson throw the ball late, or not? was gaining the 1st down enough, or was he correct in trying to instead force the pass LATER into double coverage. do you really think if he threw the ball when shipley was open, approaching the 1st down marker, shipley would have been "DECAPITATED" by harrison and suffered a worse shot than the one he took in the taylor/harrison sandwich where carson delivered the ball? i only mocked you because you're acting ridiculous, here. you're juvenile insults are even more ridiculous. [/quote] Not acting ridiculous. You're just acting butthurt that someone has an opinion that doesn't agree with yours, as usual. My bad for thinking we could have a simple conversation. My stance: I probably wouldn't have thrown it to shipley at all in that situation. He got sandwiched when he did get the ball, and he would have gotten leveled when you wanted to have it thrown and wouldn't have made the first down either. How many times have we seen the Bengals throw the ball short of the first down marker and hope for YAC? You couldn't do that there, especially against the stealers, and especially with Harrison staring him in the face. I actually liked the initial concept of the play of snapping the ball while shipley was in motion. I wish he had been running a drag route across the field, rather than cutting up field. He probably scores on that play. That wasn't the playcall though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1307060896' post='995748'] Not acting ridiculous. You're just acting butthurt that someone has an opinion that doesn't agree with yours, as usual. My bad for thinking we could have a simple conversation. My stance: I probably wouldn't have thrown it to shipley at all in that situation. He got sandwiched when he did get the ball, and he would have gotten leveled when you wanted to have it thrown and wouldn't have made the first down either. How many times have we seen the Bengals throw the ball short of the first down marker and hope for YAC? You couldn't do that there, especially against the stealers, and especially with Harrison staring him in the face. I actually liked the initial concept of the play of snapping the ball while shipley was in motion. I wish he had been running a drag route across the field, rather than cutting up field. He probably scores on that play. That wasn't the playcall though. [/quote] well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. i thought the play call was a good one and a correct one. i just don't think that $118M QB (the one you time and again, against all odds, have a habit of defending) executed the play correctly. FOR THAT REASON the needle on my bullshit meter went berserk and broke while going off the high end. i'm sure in your eyes that all comes off as normal. to me it's just another incident, in a list of the many times, where you've made a prejudiced analysis in regards to the gutless fucker who quit on this team, it's owner, and its fan base. so yeah, it's not a shocking event when you, yet again, take a stance that opposes the way i saw the play unfold. a finite pattern exists that makes me expect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 [quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1307062038' post='995755'] well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. i thought the play call was a good one and a correct one. i just don't think that $118M QB (the one you time and again, against all odds, have a habit of defending) executed the play correctly. FOR THAT REASON the needle on my bullshit meter went berserk and broke while going off the high end. i'm sure in your eyes that all comes off as normal. to me it's just another incident, in a list of the many times, where you've made a prejudiced analysis in regards to the gutless fucker who quit on this team, it's owner, and its fan base. so yeah, it's not a shocking event when you, yet again, take a stance that opposes the way i saw the play unfold. a finite pattern exists that makes me expect that. [/quote] well gee, there's certainly no hypocrisy in that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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