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Obama Health Care Bill would force Catholic Institutions to Violate their Beliefs

Jason

By Jason
in JESUS & DRUMPF

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Bengals1181 Hall Of Fame

Bengals1181

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[quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1329416085' post='1096442']

Sex is not a sin, it is a primal a human instinct. We need to stop treating sex as if its something to be scared of. There are plenty of methods by which people can enjoy sex without risking pregnancy. Those who stand in the way of abortion typically stand in the way of educating the masses about these methods as well as create barriers to proper contraception for those most likely to end up pregnant. And then there are people who are well aware of all this, [b]take precautions to avoid pregnancy and still end up pregnant.[/b]

The Christian notion of sin is constantly clouding the issue.
[/quote]

you totally missed the point, and my post had nothing to do with the religious side of sex at all.


as for the bolded, anyone with a half a brain knows that risk exists. Contraception isn't 100% effective. It's like jumping out of an airplane. 99.9999% your chute is going to open, but something could always go wrong. Know the risk, be ready to deal with the consequences.
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Jamie_B Hall Of Fame

Jamie_B

Posted
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[quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1329416085' post='1096442']

Sex is not a sin, it is a primal a human instinct. We need to stop treating sex as if its something to be scared of. There are plenty of methods by which people can enjoy sex without risking pregnancy. Those who stand in the way of abortion typically stand in the way of educating the masses about these methods as well as create barriers to proper contraception for those most likely to end up pregnant. And then there are people who are well aware of all this, take precautions to avoid pregnancy and still end up pregnant.

The Christian notion of sin is constantly clouding the issue.
[/quote]


So in the spirit of compromise I would be ok with contraception and abortion education in that we educate the potential after effect of abortion as well, to include the depression that many women feel after doing so.
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Squirrlnutz Hall Of Fame

Squirrlnutz

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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1329416530' post='1096445']

you totally missed the point, and my post had nothing to do with the religious side of sex at all.

as for the bolded, anyone with a half a brain knows that risk exists. Contraception isn't 100% effective. It's like jumping out of an airplane. 99.9999% your chute is going to open, but something could always go wrong. Know the risk, be ready to deal with the consequences.
[/quote]

My point is that your notion that one has to "be ready to deal with the consequences" is tied into the idea of punishment (well now you have to keep the baby) for those who behave (fuck) in a manner that I (my scripture) don't approve of, or the notion of sin. Deal with the consequences can mean flushing a mass of dividing cells out of your body thanks to advances in medicine. But for you it doesn't, it clearly means "well you knew this could happen and now I forbid you any other options besides surrendering your body to the physical needs of an incomplete, developing organism for the next 9 months or 18 years."

Secondly you simply said "know the risk." That is kinda difficult when conservative organizations fight tooth and nail to prevent accurate knowledge from being spread to youths. Its also a sad truth that most 14 year-old kids in our country are severely under-educated in these matters. There are clear connections to reduced birth rates in areas where real sex education is practiced and increased birth rates in areas where abstinence only education is taught. But again, sex is constantly tied to sin so its taboo to open up to children about it.

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1329418404' post='1096453']
So in the spirit of compromise I would be ok with contraception and abortion education in that we educate the potential after effect of abortion as well, to include the depression that many women feel after doing so.
[/quote]

Absolutely. A women should be made aware of all possible side effects (long term, short term, medically, psychologically etc) as well as having accurate information about the development of the fetus before making a decision like that.
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Bengals1181 Hall Of Fame

Bengals1181

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[quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1329420894' post='1096473']

My point is that your notion that one has to "be ready to deal with the consequences" is tied into the idea of punishment (well now you have to keep the baby) for those who behave (fuck) in a manner that I (my scripture) don't approve of, or the notion of sin. Deal with the consequences can mean flushing a mass of dividing cells out of your body thanks to advances in medicine. But for you it doesn't, it clearly means "well you knew this could happen and now I forbid you any other options besides surrendering your body to the physical needs of an incomplete, developing organism for the next 9 months or 18 years."

Secondly you simply said "know the risk." That is kinda difficult when conservative organizations fight tooth and nail to prevent accurate knowledge from being spread to youths. Its also a sad truth that most 14 year-old kids in our country are severely under-educated in these matters. There are clear connections to reduced birth rates in areas where real sex education is practiced and increased birth rates in areas where abstinence only education is taught. But again, sex is constantly tied to sin so its taboo to open up to children about it.


[/quote]

they don't have to keep the baby, there's always adoption.
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Squirrlnutz Hall Of Fame

Squirrlnutz

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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1329421632' post='1096481']

they don't have to keep the baby, there's always adoption.
[/quote]

Of course, but they still have to surrender their body for 9 months.

Thought [url="http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/02/16/427233/foster-friess-contraception/"]this[/url] was timely considering I mentioned that I believe sex, sex education, and abortion discussions/policy hit road blocks mostly because of the Christian notion of sin that clouds sex as taboo. There is also a hefty amount of sexism going on that ties into the same Christian roots about women being subordinate.

[quote][color=#000000][font=Calibri,]FRIESS: On this contraceptive thing, my gosh, it’s so inexpensive. [/font][/color][b]You know, back in my days, they used Baer Aspirin for contraceptives. The gals put it between their knees and it wasn’t that costly[/b][color=#000000][font=Calibri,].[/font][/color][/quote]
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MichaelWeston Hall Of Fame

MichaelWeston

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[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1329160643' post='1095721']
Jesus would not have been into politics. He was here to change the world on a person by person basis.

But He also knew the difference between government redistribution of wealth and true charity. He would also be pro-life.

As for whether the Catholic position on birth control is "right or wrong", that is a moot point. The fact is, that is their position and they have a first amendment right to believe that.

Also, the president is overstepping his authority in trying to force this.
[/quote]

Nobody is making anyone get the abortion or the birth control. I see no over step at all.
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bengalrick Super Bowl Champ

bengalrick

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No "proof" that they are human? Holy shit I remember why I stayed away from this forum for a while... A baby growing in a mothers womb is just as alive as a baby that is just born. There is no moment where the "clump of matter" becomes a baby. It is a baby the second it is conceived...

Anyone that thinks they are not human until they are born, do you have children of your own? Just wondering...
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kennethmw Hall Of Fame

|kennethmw|

Posted
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[quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1329440497' post='1096549']No "proof" that they are human? Holy shit I remember why I stayed away from this forum for a while... A baby growing in a mothers womb is just as alive as a baby that is just born. There is no moment where the "clump of matter" becomes a baby. It is a baby the second it is conceived...

Anyone that thinks they are not human until they are born, do you have children of your own? Just wondering...[/quote]

Are you willing to do what's necessary to keep them alive after they are born, or do you just want them born and then they are on their own? My biggest problem with anti-abortionists, is that they say they are pro life, but they are really pro-birth. (sorry Jamie, I had to steal that, it was perfect). Have you adopted one or two?
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MichaelWeston Hall Of Fame

MichaelWeston

Posted
Posted
[quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1329440497' post='1096549']
No "proof" that they are human? Holy shit I remember why I stayed away from this forum for a while... A baby growing in a mothers womb is just as alive as a baby that is just born. There is no moment where the "clump of matter" becomes a baby. It is a baby the second it is conceived...

Anyone that thinks they are not human until they are born, do you have children of your own? Just wondering...
[/quote]

Well are all of my sperm babies then or is it just when they meet with the egg? Should I be preserving all of my sperm?

A baby in a wombcan't live without the mom so it is in no way just as alive as a baby that is just born.
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T-Dub Hall Of Fame

T-Dub

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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1329428527' post='1096510']

and they have no one but themselves for making that decision.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure women still can't reproduce asexually. Of course there's artificial insemination, but I don't think that's really an issue considering that's an expensive elective procedure. Then again, they could still find out they are pregnant with a child that would have serious, debilitating health problems and would be lucky to live for a year, in a painful, near-vegetable state...

At which point she should be forced to have the child anyway, and deal with all that on her own, because YOUR beliefs say so?

Sorry but I have a hard time getting my head around the "pro-life" argument, at all.

I mean, on a fundamental level, why should anyone give two shits what [i]your[/i] religion or morals dictate? Live your own life.
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Elflocko Hall Of Fame

|Elflocko|

Posted
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Let's try a group exercise. Everyone, go find a mirror, and look in it, and come back when you're done.


Everybody back? Good.


Now, do you see the guy looking back at you in the mirror?

Yeah, [b]that [/b]guy.

[b]That[/b] guy has no more business telling [b]my[/b] wife or girlfriend or sister what she can do with [b]her[/b] body than the guy who's looking back at me has telling [b]your[/b] wife, girlfriend or sister what she can do with [b]hers.[/b]

See how that works?
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bengalrick Super Bowl Champ

bengalrick

Posted
Posted
[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1329453342' post='1096600']

Well are all of my sperm babies then or is it just when they meet with the egg? Should I be preserving all of my sperm?

A baby in a wombcan't live without the mom so it is in no way just as alive as a baby that is just born.
[/quote]

no, human life is formed when sperm meets the egg... So all the jacking off you do is not considered abortion imo...
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Lewdog Hall Of Fame

Lewdog

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[quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1329539247' post='1096919']


So you're saying an apple is the same as an apple tree?

You must have had some really shitty apple pies growing up...
[/quote]

No because Apples come from apple trees and apple trees come from Johnny's seed.


:lmao:

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