Notes: Zimmer says Bengals will miss Rey if he leaves; Has high hopes for Dre; Little Geathers challenges Geno

[HairOnFire]

I agree with this.  I'm in the minority but if it were between the two, I want Los.

 

 I hope the Bengals can keep MJ. He's productive and he gets better every season. Best, he plays a buttload of snaps. That alone is worth plenty. He even stops the run now. We all agree he deserves serious coin. But he's probably no better than 3rd best at flushing QB's into pressure from other Bengal players, and if Carlos could stay healthy he'd be ranked 3rd best overall on that line. (And that's pretty fucking cool if you ask me.) 

 

Dunlap churns pockets. He's not as productive as Geno or MJ, but that's because he's asked to bull rush so much...which can be evaded more easily. But there's nobody on this football team better at flushing the QB into harms way. Further,I can't think of anyone who profited more than MJ.

 

 It seems almost mandatory to mention Dunlap isn't perfect. He misses two or three times as many sacks as he actually makes and he'll give up the edge at times. But in this bunch he's the facilitator, and I think his loss would be greater felt and more difficult to replace.

[Marvin]

I'm not sure you're in the minority.  I'd be curious about those around here, but for those who actually watch the games and know something about football (as opposed to those who read the company-line or stats pages), it's not too close.
 
Want real proof (as in, watch what I do, not what I say [and assuming Wallace Gilberry's breakout performance has nothing to do with Carlos and Geno serving up the QB to the LE))?
 
The team is reportedly trying to sign Dunlap to an extension right now.  A full season earlier than the likes of MJ and Andre.  You can bet that Geno and AJ will be getting similar treatment when the time comes.

Dunlap is like sex panther 60% of the time he works every time.

But from a business perspective if they can get Dunlap to sign now, he can't use MJ's impending contract as leverage. Though pretty tranparent, I think it's a savvy move.

[Bengals1181]

Zimmer's crew could get even better at No. 21

Posted 10 hours ago

While the college cornerbacks finished off the NFL Scouting Combine, Bengals defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer already knows he has a raft of cornerbacks on his own roster that he doesn't know much about, either.

Updated: 7 p.m.

This time of year, when he sits down at the NFL Scouting Combine, Bengals defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer is usually a bit grouchy. Either he's spent too much time stopping the run and not enough on rushing the passer, or he's happy with the pass rush but not pleased with the run defense.

So it should tell you just how good the Bengals defense is these days as he heads into his sixth season in Cincinnati coming off a third top 10 finish at No. 7 and a blistering second half of the season the Bengals allowed an average of 13 points per game and total of four touchdown passes.

"We're getting better. When I watch the tape we're doing a lot of good things," Zimmer said over the weekend in Indianapolis. "We play hard, we're disciplined. We're tough. We're getting better. Hopefully we can keep going in that direction. We've got a good nucleus of guys. Good guys in the room that know how we want it done. We're starting to get a little bit of depth. All those things are good."

And the Bengals could get even better in the April 25-27 draft, especially if they can get right tackle Andre Smith re-signed. Then with the 21st pick in the first round they would be staring at a glut of 4-3 defensive ends, and after the cornerbacks ran some brisk 40-yard dash times to end the Combine on Tuesday the Bengals could also be looking to stockpile there even after taking Alabama cornerback Dre Kirkpatrick at No. 17 last season.

That would fit right into Zimmer's philosophy of "rush players and cover players" are an NFL defense's most important positions and why it's doubtful the Bengals would nab a safety or linebacker at No. 21.

"I think there's a value on each position and sometimes the safety position may not be as important as other positions," Zimmer said. "If you can't have 11 of exactly what you want, you mix and match in certain ways. I don't have an issue with our safeties.

"There are certain positions that are valued more than safety a little bit. Unless he is a War Daddy Safety and unless he is Kenny Easley, Ronnie Lott or Darren Woodson their value may not be as much as a corner or pass rusher."

Until the cornerbacks ran Tuesday, there had been a sense there was only one first-rounder among them in the person of Kirkpatrick's former college teammate, Dee Milliner. But after Washington's Desmond Trufant and Florida State's Xavier Rhodes went in the 4.3 range, they probably ran themselves back into the first round.

And when North Carolina State's David Amerson put a 4.44 on top of solid field work, NFL Network's Mike Mayock began bandying him about as a late first-rounder.

People are really going to be looking hard now at the 6-2, 215-pound Rhodes, a guy that could translate into a Richard Sherman clone. At the very least a couple of corners could go before No. 21 and push some other players down.

The reported times are done electronically, which are notoriously slower than times taken on hand-held stopwatches. When the Bengals reconvene at Paul Brown Stadium this week, they'll go over their hand-held times and come up with their times for each 40.

Zimmer already knows he has a raft of cornerbacks on his own roster that he doesn't know much about, either.

And that includes Kirkpatrick, after he played just 43 snaps because of knee problems and a concussion. But Zimmer isn't ruling him out of anything.

Of his top three corners from last season, Terence Newman and Adam Jonesare unsigned and Zimmer would love to have them back. But he's anxious to see Kirkpatrick, which won't happen until training camp because the second-year corner is coming off a procedure to correct the knee problems that sidelined him most of last season. He's expected to be fine for the first day of camp. 

"I think he can play. I don't know where, when or how yet," Zimmer said last weekend during a break in the Combine. "We have two free agents … I'd like to have them back but that doesn't mean Kirkpatrick isn't better than all of them. He could be the guy that's playing."

Fifth-round pick Shaun Prater, who showed flashes that he could be a pretty good nickel corner, missed all last year when he injured his knee in that "Terrible Thursday" of training camp. Prater not only suffered a season-ending injury back on Aug. 2, but so did 2010 third-round pick Brandon Ghee when he shattered his wrist and changed the dynamics at cornerback.

"He did improve. He was having the best year that he had so we'll see where it goes from there," Zimmer said of Ghee. "He was having his best camp until he got hurt. We'll see."

(Also hurt on that Terrible Thursday? Running Bernard Scott broke his hand and missed three of the first four games.)

Zimmer is also upbeat about two other 2012 draft picks, defensive tacklesDevon Still and Brandon Thompson, taken in the second and third rounds, respectively. Still wasn't active in the second half of the season after playing a decent amount in the first half and Thompson only played 23 snaps.

"Thompson is getting better, Still is a really good athlete and has a lot of ability," Zimmer said. "There are a few things he has to work on to be a big-time player but he has the ability to if he wants to be."

Still looks to have the versatility to move to end on early downs, but Zimmer says "he could but that's not where he's going to be. He should be a good three technique."

This is also going to be a different year for Zimmer just because of the presence of his son. Adam Zimmer just turned 29, but begins his eighth season coaching in the NFL as secondary coach Mark Carrier's assistant. He spent four seasons with Sean Payton's Saints and three years under Romeo Crennel in Kansas City as an assistant linebackers coach. The night the Saints knocked off the Colts to win the Super Bowl three years ago, the New Orleans backers praised Adam Zimmer for the tip sheet he compiled to defend quarterback Peyton Manning.

"He's been with a lot of good guys. He's very smart. I'll be working for him soon. I'm going to get all of it in I can. I'm going to make him work," Zimmer said. "We've talked about it before and he'd already made a commitment to Kansas City to go there. I wanted him to go out on his own. I really didn't want him to be labeled with me. Sometimes guys get labeled. 'They've got to go where their dad is all the time.'

"I wanted him to get under other people and the good thing is everybody told me that he was a good coach. I honestly didn't know because I'd never coached with him, so now I get to find out myself exactly what I think."

What Mike Zimmer thinks is Adam's first year in the league coaching defensive backs is going to help him with the bigger picture.

"I've talked to him for a few years about good secondary coaches being hard to find and I think it would be good for him to start learning more about DBs," Zimmer said. "It's kind of what I did a long, long time ago. I think good defensive backs coaches are hard to find. It's good for guys to learn other positions and see how everything fits together. … Hopefully with Adam learning from Mark and myself it will help him. If you're under good guys, then you learn well."

Zimmer appeared on NFL Network's NFL AM Tuesday morning from the Combine and said he didn't think Notre Dame linebacker Manti Te'o's 4.8 40-yard dash or LSU cornerback Tyrann Mathieu's four lonely reps in the 225-pound bench press would hurt them.

Zimmer said Te'o's excellent instincts reminded him of one of his former players, Cowboys linebacker Dat Nguyen, and predicted a good career for him. The 56-year-old Zimmer admitted he could probably bench more than four, but said, "At the end of the day, nobody cares about how much you benched. Not on Sept. 19 or whatever (when the season starts)." 

 

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Zimmers-crew-could-get-even-better-at-No-21/5f933a67-0a17-4438-bebb-d298f075a4a8

[akiliMVP]

I read that scouts said both Rhodes and Trufant were stiff in the CB drills.

 

CB just doesn't make sense at all to me with the 21st pick. Don't see how it improves the team. Hall and Kirkpatrick both have a few seasons left under contract as the #1 and #2. Do you use a 1st round pick on a nickel CB?

[unleashed]

I read that scouts said both Rhodes and Trufant were stiff in the CB drills.
 
CB just doesn't make sense at all to me with the 21st pick. Don't see how it improves the team. Hall and Kirkpatrick both have a few seasons left under contract as the #1 and #2. Do you use a 1st round pick on a nickel CB?

I agree. Another year with the CBs we have and then take one early on next year. Dre will have a huge hand in that. We really have no idea what we have in him yet.

[Bengals1181]

I don't think they go corner at 21 (unless a corner is playing safety), as I think they'll know there's going to be some good corners at 37 who have late first round value.  

[JBandJoeyV]

I don't think they go corner at 21 (unless a corner is playing safety), as I think they'll know there's going to be some good corners at 37 who have late first round value.  

 

I dont think there is a need for CB early at all. Resign Jones and you should have a good 1-3 with Hall Dre and Jones. Resign Newman as a backup for one year. See what you get out of prater. If Prater and Dre dont work out or show potential then you could look at getting another CB early in 2014.

[Bengals1181]

I dont think there is a need for CB early at all. Resign Jones and you should have a good 1-3 with Hall Dre and Jones. Resign Newman as a backup for one year. See what you get out of prater. If Prater and Dre dont work out or show potential then you could look at getting another CB early in 2014.

 

 

I don't necessarily disagree, but with the depth at the position I could see them taking one early.  Consider last year.  They didn't need a 2nd round DT with Peko/Atkins/Sims signed, but Devon Still (who many had a first round grade on) was sitting there at pick 53, and they pulled the trigger.  There's going to be a surprise pick at some point.

 

I could see them doing the same this year if a corner they have a first round grade on is sitting there at 37.  I don't think just the corner depth comes into play, but the whole DB depth as a whole.  I don't think they'd hesitate to go a body light at safety if they saw the opportunity to add a highly talented corner at a pick below his draft value.

[Jason]

You can never have too much depth at CB.  And those guys get expensive if they are any good.

[Tigris]

If Pacman wants the money, and I can understand why, because of his legal issues, all you have to do is resign Newman.

Leon, Newman, Kirkpatrick, Lewis-Harris

Prater, Ghee... hopefully one can step up.

If you draft a guy like Elam, he could also double and put him where you'd usually plant a corner.

[WRAPradio]

You can never have too much depth at CB.  And those guys get expensive if they are any good.

 

 

I agree, you can't have too many.  They're expensive and when injuries happen you need capable backups.  Plus with more 3 and 4 WR sets, you have to be strong at that position.  

[B.A.B.]

 
do you really think that's true?  don't get me wrong I like MJ, I really hope they bring him back, but I honestly think he was the 3rd best lineman they ran out there last year despite the numbers...to tell ya the truth I kinda get the feeling that if they had put Gilberry in the same spot and given him the same amount of snaps, he would've given them the same amount of production.

He's young. He's talented. He's more than likely only going to get better. He's a talent that we developed. We don't need another hole to fill.

[|SF2|]

that motherfucking liar ass DC of ours!!!!! 

 

Trying to pull a bugs bunny on all the daffy duck oragnizations in the NFL.    Thank God the Bengals are the only ones with film.   If this is Zimmer's master plan I take back all the Liar comments.   I think he's just trying fool us. 

 

LOL, yeah there is that little problem of game film.  Still, Zimmer isn't going to throw a guy who might be on the team next year under the bus.  Even if he is traded, he will pull the classic, "He needs a fresh start and I hope this is a positive move for Rey.  We are going to miss him."

[scharm]

I read that scouts said both Rhodes and Trufant were stiff in the CB drills.

 

CB just doesn't make sense at all to me with the 21st pick. Don't see how it improves the team. Hall and Kirkpatrick both have a few seasons left under contract as the #1 and #2. Do you use a 1st round pick on a nickel CB?

 

If someone wanted to drag up the snap counts from last year.   I'm sure Hall, Jones, Newman were all well represented.

 

Nickel CB is like a Zack Morris cell phone.   It's kinda changed over the years.   Qbs are good enough with shceme to find that not so good 3rd CB. 

[scharm]

LOL, yeah there is that little problem of game film.  Still, Zimmer isn't going to throw a guy who might be on the team next year under the bus.  Even if he is traded, he will pull the classic, "He needs a fresh start and I hope this is a positive move for Rey.  We are going to miss him."

 

Right Zimmer is a lying son of a bitch.    I hate that SOB, he's always preaching sunshine and flowers to these guys.  

[Bengals1181]

If someone wanted to drag up the snap counts from last year.   I'm sure Hall, Jones, Newman were all well represented.

 

Nickel CB is like a Zack Morris cell phone.   It's kinda changed over the years.   Qbs are good enough with shceme to find that not so good 3rd CB. 

 

 

for all intents and purposes, the Bengals basically start 3 corners.  Hall, Newman and Jones.  Kirkpatrick could displace one, but longterm they still need depth.  Newman would only be back on a 1yr deal, Jones likely 2 max (and he's entering his 30's).  Ghee, even if he plays well, is a free agent at the end of the year. Prater is an unknown and likely not a starter down the road.

[scharm]

Ghee is a not factor.   If we are going to erase Benard Scott from the RB pool and I think Ghee has to be cleaned from the CB Pool.   Has that guy ever made it out of TC?

[VBurfict55]

Ghee is a not factor.   If we are going to erase Benard Scott from the RB pool and I think Ghee has to be cleaned from the CB Pool.   Has that guy ever made it out of TC?

I agree with you on this.

I was a big fan of both, but the time has come that they have had chances to prove themselves, but we don't have time to wait forever

[Bengals1181]

+ It's understandable that fans would feel a measure of hesitancy with Rey Maualuga. Because in these bones, writing words that you're reading, it feels like Maualuga is returning. His role, a little uncertain. Defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer suggested moving Maualuga back to SAM ifCincinnati re-signs him. Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis told Around The League's Gregg Rosenthal that "he's one of the guys you got to get back in the fold." Even if you're attaching his comments as a diplomatic response, head coaches avoid certainties like that during uncertain times. Even the riddler Marvin Lewis.

After two solid years as the team's strong-side linebacker, the transition inside left resulted in a failed experiment, attacking incorrect lanes, over-pursuing, terrible coverage, missed tackles but more importantly, carrying the failures along in his mind when he should forget about them and move on. But let's compare his time at SAM and MIKE.

 

  SAM ('09-'10) MIKE ('11-'12)

Games Played 31 29

Total Snaps 1,100 1,856

Tackles 138 210

Missed Tackles 10 30

PFF Overall 10.9 -42.5

PFF Against Run 14.1 -10.1

PFF Coverage -1.9 -26.0

 

Grade-wise Maualuga was superior at SAM. Production-wise, he appeared more effective at middle linebacker, however his missed tackles exponentially increased and his snaps per tackle was actually better (7.97) from '09-10 than at middle linebacker (8.84).

+ Unfortunately after the 2010 season, flowing with a heavy demand from fans to move Maualuga for the departing Dhani Jones, the growing (and suspenseful) feeling is that Maualuga will return where played originally entering the NFL, which leaves the question: Who plays middle linebacker?

Vontaze Burfict, you idiot.

Of course, d'uh. Not like an outside linebacker moving inside is a can't-miss proposition.

Here's my thought. Bring Maualuga back at SAM, look at free agency and the 2013 NFL draft for a replacement at middle linebacker while keeping Vontaze Burfict where he played in 2012. My thinking: Did you see what Burfict did where he played last year? Why mess with that formula for what amounts to a technicality based on the position a player plays. Burfict still plays most of the defensive snaps, including as a cover linebacker during five-back formations, who scored a 1.9 grade in coverage according to Pro Football Focus.

 

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/2/28/4037056/bengals-rey-maualuga-andre-smith