PFF grades the Bengals offensive line as the best in the NFL

[SouthPaw]

 

Ben has a talent, aside from assaulting drunk college girls.  He's able to shake off tackles and improvise downfield.  As a precise downfield thrower, he's nothing to write home about, never has been.  In 2009 we beat him by making him stay in the pocket and covering.

 

I don't think that it is a model our team can really learn from.

 

What he does in his spare time has nothing to do with the football player he is.  I never said "we"(whoever the fuck we are, i know i dont play for them) should commend him for his off the field transgressions.  Who gives a flying fuck how the CINCINNATI BENGALS beat him in 2009.  They won the super bowl.  Who gives a shit how he passed it, he made plays happen.  Good grief.  Digress much?

[Orange 'n Black]

 

What he does in his spare time has nothing to do with the football player he is.  I never said "we"(whoever the fuck we are, i know i dont play for them) should commend him for his off the field transgressions.  Who gives a flying fuck how the CINCINNATI BENGALS beat him in 2009.  They won the super bowl.  Who gives a shit how he passed it, he made plays happen.  Good grief.  Digress much?

 

Slow down there, chief. First of all he was referencing how we swept them in the '09 season, has nothing to do with the Super Bowl they won (08 season, played in calendar year '09). Second of all you're on a Bengals forum where it is completely appropriate to trash the rapist at any given time. Third of all if we're sitting here analyzing QBs and comparing how they play, it's totally right to point out that Roethlisberger is nothing to write home about as a pocket passer. And if you're not going to give a fuck about what happened in 09, then you ought to give a fuck about what's happened in the past 1.5 seasons, which is Roethlisberger not elevating his team for a bunch of reasons including his shitty O-line.

[Oldcat]

 

What he does in his spare time has nothing to do with the football player he is.  I never said "we"(whoever the fuck we are, i know i dont play for them) should commend him for his off the field transgressions.  Who gives a flying fuck how the CINCINNATI BENGALS beat him in 2009.  They won the super bowl.  Who gives a shit how he passed it, he made plays happen.  Good grief.  Digress much?

 

Rogers and Ben were brought up as examples of succeeding without a good OL.  We can't duplicate what Ben does since it relies on something that only he could do once and is having problems doing now, which is make positive plays while getting the crap beat out of him.

 

Now, what Rogers does, throw quick passes and rely on YAC and such to compensate is more of a model we can emulate.

[|Numbers|]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/10/09/ranking-the-2013-offensive-lines-first-quarter/4/

 

1. Cincinnati Bengals: +37.1

 

Stud: Pick your poison, and pick it well since there’s a fine selection. On top its Andrew Whitworth (+11.3), who so far is giving up a quarterback disruption on every 29.6 drop-backs.

 

Dud: There is no dud, but the least impressive of the unit is Kyle Cook (-2.3) and that’s chiefly down to his pass protection.

 

Summary: It comes to something when even the backup left tackle, Anthony Collins, is getting a positive grade. Helped by a quick-hit offense, they rarely allow pressure and their young guards have taken a big step forward in the run game

[SouthPaw]

 

Slow down there, chief. First of all he was referencing how we swept them in the '09 season, has nothing to do with the Super Bowl they won (08 season, played in calendar year '09). Second of all you're on a Bengals forum where it is completely appropriate to trash the rapist at any given time. Third of all if we're sitting here analyzing QBs and comparing how they play, it's totally right to point out that Roethlisberger is nothing to write home about as a pocket passer. And if you're not going to give a fuck about what happened in 09, then you ought to give a fuck about what's happened in the past 1.5 seasons, which is Roethlisberger not elevating his team for a bunch of reasons including his shitty O-line.

 

For the most part....he wins.  That's my point.  Sometimes in spite of his line.  That's what, according to some, Dalton is going to have to do.  Have it seen it yet, this year anyway.  The best game he has played as a whole is Chicago and they lost.  That one was not on him.  The other loss and the struggles in the other two wins, he has contributed too. 

[coup000]

Some more detailed analysis....

 

10 Oct 2013

Word of Muth: Bengals over Patriots

by Ben Muth

The main story of the Cincinnati-New England game was the Bengals defense and how they shut down the Patriots offense. Of particular note was the fact that they snapped Tom Brady’s consecutive games with a touchdown pass streak. But while the defense deserves the lion’s share of the praise from Sunday, there were some bright spots on the offensive side of the ball for Cincinnati, particularly up front.

As a unit, I thought the Bengals offensive line played well. In particular, I thought both tackles played up to their abilities, aside from the fact that they each gave up a sack. Andrew Whitworth gave up his very early in the game (despite the fact that he held on the play), but was rock solid from then on. I can’t recall another pressure he gave up all game.

Andre Smith gave up a sack as well, but generated consistent movement in the running game and only made that one big mistake. Smith gave up his sack on a full-slide protection that looked really bad from the TV copy. The end zone camera view on the All-22 was more forgiving.

 

 

The Bengals were running a full-slide protection with their front five and had their tight end and running back blocking the linebacker and defensive end to the offense’s right. Any time an offensive coordinator dials up a full-slide protection, an offensive lineman’s face should light up. It’s the easiest pass-protecting gig you’ll ever get. You have to block one gap and you know exactly where your help is coming from. If you can’t protect a single gap in pass protection, you’re probably not long for the NFL. Or any other league for that matter. It’s an almost idiot-proof protection.

 

 

I did say almost. Here, Kyle Cook gets way too aggressive and fires out into his man, almost like a running play. Unfortunately for Cook, Joe Vellano feels his aggression and performs a quick swim move across the center’s face. This puts Cincinnati in a terrible position,. Not only did Cook’s over-aggression leave him off-balance, it also left a gigantic hole between him the right guard.

 

 

Because of this, Kevin Zeitler needs to haul ass to pick up Vellano, who is in the gap Zeitler is responsible for. As Zeitler sees Cook whiff and goes to cover for him, Jerod Mayo is scraping across the formation and tracking Giovani Bernard. This draws Andre Smith’s eyes, because he thinks Mayo might be coming on a stunt. That stops Smith in his tracks -- he’s responsible for anyone from the left side of the defense that loops across his face.

 

 

While Smith is looking at Mayo (who, it turns out, isn’t coming) he fails to notice Zeitler leaving to pick up Vellano. By the time Smith looks back inside, all he can do is watch Chris Jones pick up the sack on Andy Dalton. When I was watching the game live, it seemed like Smith just stopped playing for some reason. But watching the play back, it becomes a lot easier to see what Smith was looking at out there. He still needs to continue sliding down even as he’s tracking Mayo with his eyes, but this sack was more on Cook than him.

Cook wasn’t the only Bengals lineman who got in trouble for being overzealous. Zeitler also got caught lunging at defenders at times, and was beat as a result. I’ve been impressed with Zeitler, but this was probably his worst game yet. There were a couple of times when Zeitler was caught off-guard by New England's slanting or stunting at the line, and Zeitler wound up stumbling forward. When Zeitler hit his target, he was his usual powerful self, moving guys off their spots and opening up lanes. He threw a couple of no-hitters on line stunts and it’ll be interesting to see if teams slant their defensive tackles more as the season goes along (just as New England did often on Sunday) in order to take advantage of Zeitler’s over-aggression.

I think a big reason the Patriots slanted so much (and they blitzed their inside linebackers on running downs a lot as well) was that they didn’t like how they matched up physically against the Bengals' offensive line, particularly with Vince Wilfork out. Smith and Zeitler on the right side can move people when they have to, while Cook, Whitworth, and Clint Boling all play with very good leverage. New England’s movement gave Cincy some trouble, but I do think the offensive line handled most of it very well. It may not have shown up on the scoreboard, or even the stat sheets, but I thought the Bengals offensive line opened up some nice running lanes. They just missed breaking a couple of big runs.

Take the second play of the game. The Bengals ran an inside zone slice play and covered everybody up. The only missed block on the play was the slice attempt by Jermaine Gresham -- not a very good blocker by the way -- and his target path was good enough that the defender took himself out of the play avoiding the block.

 

 

Here’s the end zone shot. Running back BenJarvus Green-Ellis has a two-way go here, and should be making his read off of Boling’s block on Vellano (72). Since the defensive tackle is flowing that way, and Boling is a little behind on his hat placement, Green-Ellis should cut this back. If he does cut it back, Smith has the backside linebacker blocked perfectly, so Green-Ellis would be one-on-one with the safety. Here’s a look from the sideline.

 

 

That’s a big hole. Green-Ellis probably gets tackled by the safety, because he’s pretty washed up at this point, but that’s an easy ten-yard gain if he takes it backside. And it could be even more. Instead, he follows the red arrow and runs for a gain of two.

Green-Ellis wasn’t the only back that left some yards on the field. It’s pretty clear that Giovani Bernard is the best ball carrier the Bengals have. There’s a different speed when he’s out there. But he still misread a cut that could’ve been a touchdown early in the second quarter: An outside zone play to the offense’s left.

 

 

I’ll admit that this read is sort of a gray area when you look at it from the running back’s eyes. The block he’s reading, once again, is Boling’s. The defender is almost exactly head-up, or maybe a hair inside. But when you consider that the defensive tackle is fighting hard to get outside of Boling’s block and back into his B-gap, I think it’s clear that Bernard should cut up field here.

I just can’t see any way that the 300-pounder going to the outside is able to stop his momentum and make a tackle if Bernard does stick his foot in the ground and run right off Boling’s ass. Boling is thinking the same thing. He’s actually taken his playside hand off the defender to try to throw him outside with his inside hand. Unfortunately, Bernard takes it outside and gets tackled for a short gain.

 

That play, more than the Green-Ellis play, was a heartbreaker. I really do think Bernard scores if he makes the cut. Cook gets his cut block on Mayo, so the only guy Bernard had left to beat was the safety, who had turned his hips and ran back into coverage right at the snap because the Patriots were disguising their coverage look. I can’t imagine him getting back to square and making an open-field tackle on Bernard with a full head of steam.

The other thing I thought kept the Bengals from getting their run game going were the tight ends. One of the supposed advantages of all the 12 personnel the Bengals run is that it should help their running game. The problem is that neither of their tight ends are particularly good run blockers.

Gresham is their go-to blocking tight end -- they run behind him way more than Tyler Eifert -- and I just don’t think he’s very good at it. He’s willing to stick his nose in there, but he plays with poor balance and gets thrown around a little bit as a result. Too often, his blocks end with him stumbling as the defender sheds him aside.

Eifert is too tentative as a blocker and tends to just duck his head and brace for contact at the second level. He’s still a rookie, and I think a lot of his struggles are a combination of not having been asked to block at the point of attack much in the past, and being a little unsure of his assignments at times. I suspect he’ll get better, as he has shown some flashes on plays where he just comes off the ball and hits someone lined up over top of him.

One of the biggest plays of the game came down to Cincinnati's tight ends. It was the third-and-2 in the fourth quarter, when the Bengals were trying to run the clock out. Everyone in the stadium knew the Bengals were going to run it, and with Green-Ellis in the game, they knew the Bengals were going to run it inside. The Bengals brought in Orson Charles as a fullback and ran a straight lead play. No need to diagram it really, as everyone just blocks the guy in front of them and the fullback leads on the playside linebacker.

 

 

This is just after the snap -- you can see Green-Ellis doesn’t even have the ball yet -- Zeitler does a really nice job of burying the nose tackle inside and Smith does a nice job of completely covering up the man over him. Charles has a two-way go to lead up on to Brandon Spikes (red arrow). Gresham (yellow arrow) is bent completely at the waist as his man is in the middle of a swim move. Gresham is screwed.

 

 

The hole between Smith and Zeitler has gotten bigger just as Charles chose to go outside. I’m generally a believer in taking the first available hole ("Phrasing!") on third-and-short, but I can’t blame Charles for going outside here. The Patriots were pinching inside and he couldn’t have known that Smith was just going to completely stonewall his man as Zeitler buried his. The big problem is that Gresham completely whiffed on the defensive end. Now Green-Ellis can’t follow his lead blocker outside of Smith’s block, and has to stop his feet to try to sneak inside.

 

 

And there’s the money shot. You never want to be facing the backfield in short-yardage situations as your guy makes the tackle. That’ll bring out both the punt team and the X of Great Shame every time.

Posted by: Ben Muth on 10 Oct 2013

0 comments

[dex]

 

 

Mannings O line is awful, they're best LT went down.

 

Manning has all day to throw? No he really doesn't, he gets the ball out fast the wr's make the defenders miss and boom next thing you know they aren't blitzing manning anymore and are putting 8 into coverage because they can't stop manning on quick passes.

 

Dalton is the key to our problems, but so if the fact that we don't have the weapons Brees and manning have.

 

The denver O line and D will be the death of that team. I really believe we could beat them here in cincinnati if we played this sunday.

Denver's defense is better than their numbers. Look around the NFL. If your offense gains a bunch of yards and scores a bunch of points, then your defense will likely yield a bunch of yards and give up a bunch of points. No team with a great statistical offense has a great statistical defense, even if that team happens to be 5-0. That's not a coincidence. If the Bengals offense ever put up points the way Denver is now, then our defense would be giving up a lot more yards and points. And that's with the great d-line and the rest of the same personnel. Teams play much less conservatively when they know going in that they will have to score a bunch of points to win.

[scharm]

Closer to top 1 than bottom 1.


Snicker, snicker, snicker

[Khatmandude]

Has anyone ever thought that those quarterbacks mentioned above and some others, read defenses and go through their progressions alot better than mister Dalton?  So tired of the lineman argument.  Its already well documented how awful Aaron Rodgers' line has been, especially during the superbowl run and, do i dare say it, Roethlisberger has been dealing with an atrocious line for years.  They make shit happen one way or another. 

 

You can't expect him to read defenses and go through progressions, this is only his 2.34th year in the league.   Year 6, LOOK OUT!!   Plus, you're posting from PFF which has been deemed to have no credibility at all (unless you're a Dalton Defender (TM) and the stats work in your favor)

 

Closer to top 1 than bottom 1.


Snicker, snicker, snicker

 

Hahaha

 

This Oline is not in the top 3 IMO, but they are top 10 easily.  Replace Cook and it's even better.   Can't believe anyone would try to defend that turd. 

[T-Dub]

Roethlisberger has been dealing with an atrocious line for years.  They make shit happen one way or another. 

 

 

You mean 0-4 kind of shit, or some other variety?

[SouthPaw]

 

 

You mean 0-4 kind of shit, or some other variety?

 

yep, that's what I mean.

[cwing]

Some more detailed analysis....
 
10 Oct 2013

Word of Muth: Bengals over Patriots

by Ben Muth
The main story of the Cincinnati-New England game was the Bengals defense and how they shut down the Patriots offense. Of particular note was the fact that they snapped Tom Brady’s consecutive games with a touchdown pass streak. But while the defense deserves the lion’s share of the praise from Sunday, there were some bright spots on the offensive side of the ball for Cincinnati, particularly up front.
As a unit, I thought the Bengals offensive line played well. In particular, I thought both tackles played up to their abilities, aside from the fact that they each gave up a sack. Andrew Whitworth gave up his very early in the game (despite the fact that he held on the play), but was rock solid from then on. I can’t recall another pressure he gave up all game.
Andre Smith gave up a sack as well, but generated consistent movement in the running game and only made that one big mistake. Smith gave up his sack on a full-slide protection that looked really bad from the TV copy. The end zone camera view on the All-22 was more forgiving.
 


 
The Bengals were running a full-slide protection with their front five and had their tight end and running back blocking the linebacker and defensive end to the offense’s right. Any time an offensive coordinator dials up a full-slide protection, an offensive lineman’s face should light up. It’s the easiest pass-protecting gig you’ll ever get. You have to block one gap and you know exactly where your help is coming from. If you can’t protect a single gap in pass protection, you’re probably not long for the NFL. Or any other league for that matter. It’s an almost idiot-proof protection.
 


 
I did say almost. Here, Kyle Cook gets way too aggressive and fires out into his man, almost like a running play. Unfortunately for Cook, Joe Vellano feels his aggression and performs a quick swim move across the center’s face. This puts Cincinnati in a terrible position,. Not only did Cook’s over-aggression leave him off-balance, it also left a gigantic hole between him the right guard.
 


 
Because of this, Kevin Zeitler needs to haul ass to pick up Vellano, who is in the gap Zeitler is responsible for. As Zeitler sees Cook whiff and goes to cover for him, Jerod Mayo is scraping across the formation and tracking Giovani Bernard. This draws Andre Smith’s eyes, because he thinks Mayo might be coming on a stunt. That stops Smith in his tracks -- he’s responsible for anyone from the left side of the defense that loops across his face.
 


 
While Smith is looking at Mayo (who, it turns out, isn’t coming) he fails to notice Zeitler leaving to pick up Vellano. By the time Smith looks back inside, all he can do is watch Chris Jones pick up the sack on Andy Dalton. When I was watching the game live, it seemed like Smith just stopped playing for some reason. But watching the play back, it becomes a lot easier to see what Smith was looking at out there. He still needs to continue sliding down even as he’s tracking Mayo with his eyes, but this sack was more on Cook than him.



Cook wasn’t the only Bengals lineman who got in trouble for being overzealous. Zeitler also got caught lunging at defenders at times, and was beat as a result. I’ve been impressed with Zeitler, but this was probably his worst game yet. There were a couple of times when Zeitler was caught off-guard by New England's slanting or stunting at the line, and Zeitler wound up stumbling forward. When Zeitler hit his target, he was his usual powerful self, moving guys off their spots and opening up lanes. He threw a couple of no-hitters on line stunts and it’ll be interesting to see if teams slant their defensive tackles more as the season goes along (just as New England did often on Sunday) in order to take advantage of Zeitler’s over-aggression.
I think a big reason the Patriots slanted so much (and they blitzed their inside linebackers on running downs a lot as well) was that they didn’t like how they matched up physically against the Bengals' offensive line, particularly with Vince Wilfork out. Smith and Zeitler on the right side can move people when they have to, while Cook, Whitworth, and Clint Boling all play with very good leverage. New England’s movement gave Cincy some trouble, but I do think the offensive line handled most of it very well. It may not have shown up on the scoreboard, or even the stat sheets, but I thought the Bengals offensive line opened up some nice running lanes. They just missed breaking a couple of big runs.
Take the second play of the game. The Bengals ran an inside zone slice play and covered everybody up. The only missed block on the play was the slice attempt by Jermaine Gresham -- not a very good blocker by the way -- and his target path was good enough that the defender took himself out of the play avoiding the block.
 


 
Here’s the end zone shot. Running back BenJarvus Green-Ellis has a two-way go here, and should be making his read off of Boling’s block on Vellano (72). Since the defensive tackle is flowing that way, and Boling is a little behind on his hat placement, Green-Ellis should cut this back. If he does cut it back, Smith has the backside linebacker blocked perfectly, so Green-Ellis would be one-on-one with the safety. Here’s a look from the sideline.
 


 
That’s a big hole. Green-Ellis probably gets tackled by the safety, because he’s pretty washed up at this point, but that’s an easy ten-yard gain if he takes it backside. And it could be even more. Instead, he follows the red arrow and runs for a gain of two.
Green-Ellis wasn’t the only back that left some yards on the field. It’s pretty clear that Giovani Bernard is the best ball carrier the Bengals have. There’s a different speed when he’s out there. But he still misread a cut that could’ve been a touchdown early in the second quarter: An outside zone play to the offense’s left.
 


 
I’ll admit that this read is sort of a gray area when you look at it from the running back’s eyes. The block he’s reading, once again, is Boling’s. The defender is almost exactly head-up, or maybe a hair inside. But when you consider that the defensive tackle is fighting hard to get outside of Boling’s block and back into his B-gap, I think it’s clear that Bernard should cut up field here.
I just can’t see any way that the 300-pounder going to the outside is able to stop his momentum and make a tackle if Bernard does stick his foot in the ground and run right off Boling’s ass. Boling is thinking the same thing. He’s actually taken his playside hand off the defender to try to throw him outside with his inside hand. Unfortunately, Bernard takes it outside and gets tackled for a short gain.
 
That play, more than the Green-Ellis play, was a heartbreaker. I really do think Bernard scores if he makes the cut. Cook gets his cut block on Mayo, so the only guy Bernard had left to beat was the safety, who had turned his hips and ran back into coverage right at the snap because the Patriots were disguising their coverage look. I can’t imagine him getting back to square and making an open-field tackle on Bernard with a full head of steam.
The other thing I thought kept the Bengals from getting their run game going were the tight ends. One of the supposed advantages of all the 12 personnel the Bengals run is that it should help their running game. The problem is that neither of their tight ends are particularly good run blockers.
Gresham is their go-to blocking tight end -- they run behind him way more than Tyler Eifert -- and I just don’t think he’s very good at it. He’s willing to stick his nose in there, but he plays with poor balance and gets thrown around a little bit as a result. Too often, his blocks end with him stumbling as the defender sheds him aside.
Eifert is too tentative as a blocker and tends to just duck his head and brace for contact at the second level. He’s still a rookie, and I think a lot of his struggles are a combination of not having been asked to block at the point of attack much in the past, and being a little unsure of his assignments at times. I suspect he’ll get better, as he has shown some flashes on plays where he just comes off the ball and hits someone lined up over top of him.
One of the biggest plays of the game came down to Cincinnati's tight ends. It was the third-and-2 in the fourth quarter, when the Bengals were trying to run the clock out. Everyone in the stadium knew the Bengals were going to run it, and with Green-Ellis in the game, they knew the Bengals were going to run it inside. The Bengals brought in Orson Charles as a fullback and ran a straight lead play. No need to diagram it really, as everyone just blocks the guy in front of them and the fullback leads on the playside linebacker.
 


 
This is just after the snap -- you can see Green-Ellis doesn’t even have the ball yet -- Zeitler does a really nice job of burying the nose tackle inside and Smith does a nice job of completely covering up the man over him. Charles has a two-way go to lead up on to Brandon Spikes (red arrow). Gresham (yellow arrow) is bent completely at the waist as his man is in the middle of a swim move. Gresham is screwed.
 


 
The hole between Smith and Zeitler has gotten bigger just as Charles chose to go outside. I’m generally a believer in taking the first available hole ("Phrasing!") on third-and-short, but I can’t blame Charles for going outside here. The Patriots were pinching inside and he couldn’t have known that Smith was just going to completely stonewall his man as Zeitler buried his. The big problem is that Gresham completely whiffed on the defensive end. Now Green-Ellis can’t follow his lead blocker outside of Smith’s block, and has to stop his feet to try to sneak inside.
 


 
And there’s the money shot. You never want to be facing the backfield in short-yardage situations as your guy makes the tackle. That’ll bring out both the punt team and the X of Great Shame every time.
Posted by: Ben Muth on 10 Oct 2013
0 comments

Now that is an awesome post.

[Big Alice]

A couple observations...

The vast majority of the pressures given up by the Bengals have been against the blitz.

The problem is that the offense hasn't made opponents pay for it yet. There's a lot of blame to go around for that. What we all should be HOPING is the biggest reason is that 4 of the 6 best options in the passing game are getting their first taste of extended playing time.

Kyle Cook is the worst player on a very very good line.

[|Bunghole|]

Denver's defense is better than their numbers. Look around the NFL. If your offense gains a bunch of yards and scores a bunch of points, then your defense will likely yield a bunch of yards and give up a bunch of points. No team with a great statistical offense has a great statistical defense, even if that team happens to be 5-0. That's not a coincidence. If the Bengals offense ever put up points the way Denver is now, then our defense would be giving up a lot more yards and points. And that's with the great d-line and the rest of the same personnel. Teams play much less conservatively when they know going in that they will have to score a bunch of points to win.

Not to mention that they will be getting Von Miller back shortly.

[T-Dub]

Pretty damn good run blocking OL, probably average at best in pass pro.  Not a lot of clean pockets from what I can remember.

[bengaled]

Now that is an awesome post.

 

 

other than his confusing charles for alex smith (#81)... yeah, it sure was.

[|Bunghole|]

Pretty damn good run blocking OL, probably average at best in pass pro.  Not a lot of clean pockets from what I can remember.

That's pretty much the picture as I see it as well. Not horrible, possibly quite above average overall, but no way number one. NO WAY.

[coup000]

Pretty damn good run blocking OL, probably average at best in pass pro.  Not a lot of clean pockets from what I can remember.

Dalton has been "pressured" less than most of the QBs in the league

[T-Dub]

Dalton has been "pressured" less than most of the QBs in the league

 

 

Where are you getting that from?

[Orange 'n Black]

We are clear that Bengals pass pro is not excellent. The center of the line is not a good pass protector and aside from BJGE the secondary blockers are not great pass protectors. They do well enough to get by.

[JBandJoeyV]

Dalton has been "pressured" less than most of the QBs in the league

Dalton is also near the very top in quickest release times from the snap. Think those two go a little hand in hand?

[SouthPaw]

He has been sacked 11 times(21st) and hit 19(25th).  They are both among the lowest.  Interpret them as you may.   

[coup000]

Dalton is also near the very top in quickest release times from the snap. Think those two go a little hand in hand?

Obviously they do.

[scharm]

We're number 1! We're number 1!


What? Some people aren't excited about this? What? After all the bitching about how we never get respect?


Oh, that's right. It doesn't fit some people's narrative of what is wrong with the offense.

We're number 1! We're number 1! Come on baby Who Dey!

[SouthPaw]

We're number 1! We're number 1!


What? Some people aren't excited about this? What? After all the bitching about how we never get respect?


Oh, that's right. It doesn't fit some people's narrative of what is wrong with the offense.

We're number 1! We're number 1! Come on baby Who Dey!

 

Yeah, you cant tell them anything.  They know it all.  In fact, i cant believe some of them have the time to get on here and post considering they have O coordinators jobs just waiting in line for them.  The fact of the matter is, Andy Dalton is not playing well.  Sure, they have a record over .500, but that is LARGELY due to their dominating defense.  He has had his moments, but they are much fewer and far between than his deficient moments this year.  I cant tell you why that it is.  All i know is he has been pretty pedestrian over the course of his last 15-16 games.  I am sure its a combination of some other things, but its time for him to put it up or shut it up.  I had confidence in him going into the year, but it just feels like he started to stumble during the second half of the last year(i realize there were difficult defenses) and has never fully regained.  I am not looking for him to toss up 400 yds and 4 tiddies a game, but an efficient 275yds and 2 tiddies accompanied by solid; sustained drives would be nice.  Its just too inconsistent.  Just like Carson Palmer a few years back, nobody, and i mean nobody(well there were a few of us) wanted to anything negative about him at all when it was crystal clear he no longer was the player he demonstrated back in 2005-2006.  I get it, fandom, it makes some of the smartest people turn dumb, but some things are obvious.  Anyway, nobody hopes he goes on a huge offensive tear more than myself, but he has to prove that he can before i can have full confidence in him as this teams quarterback.  I like him as a person and a leader(from what i can gather through media) and he seems to have many intangibles, but that isnt going to get it done.  He has to go out and perform consistently for this team to reach the top.  Just not sure he is capable right now.  Thats all.