Looking at the INT's so far

[JBandJoeyV]

Saying we use the short passing game as a replacement for our running game in a lot of situations but then saying we use the short passing game because of limitations to dalton.

[coup000]

Intersting nugget from Hobson's latest article:

 

Sunday's two picks? Here seems to be the consensus inside:

Dalton never should have thrown the first one. Bad play from the outset. On the second one, wide receiver A.J. Green didn't respond in the route or to the ball.

 

Not sure if maybe he switched the two? It seems that the second one was the one he shouldn't have thrown. Or maybe none of us really know anything at all (likely)

[fluhartz]

 

 

Because we hadn't had our bye week yet, obviously

 

 

:ninja:

 

 

Or always being behind...lol. 

Has nothing to do with not being able to sustain a run game..

 

 

:ninja:  :ninja:

[|Dr Tarzan|]

I would call that a bad pass by Dalton on a screen, but nice breakdown showing the different reasons interceptions happen. Most here will choose to ignore it but I appreciate the effort.

Me too.

[alleycat]

Saying we use the short passing game as a replacement for our running game in a lot of situations but then saying we use the short passing game because of limitations to dalton.

 

Did you edit this post? Because it says something different than it originally did, and now doesn't make sense.

[Bengals1181]

Intersting nugget from Hobson's latest article:

 

Sunday's two picks? Here seems to be the consensus inside:

Dalton never should have thrown the first one. Bad play from the outset. On the second one, wide receiver A.J. Green didn't respond in the route or to the ball.

 

Not sure if maybe he switched the two? It seems that the second one was the one he shouldn't have thrown. Or maybe none of us really know anything at all (likely)

 

 

yea I think Hobson got them backwards.

[alleycat]

Intersting nugget from Hobson's latest article:

 

Sunday's two picks? Here seems to be the consensus inside:

Dalton never should have thrown the first one. Bad play from the outset. On the second one, wide receiver A.J. Green didn't respond in the route or to the ball.

 

Not sure if maybe he switched the two? It seems that the second one was the one he shouldn't have thrown. Or maybe none of us really know anything at all (likely)

 

I think he switched them, which is pretty much par for the course with Hobson.  I love how referred to himself in the Thomas Howard article in the third person, as "a scribe" with a Boston accent.  And his attempts to create parallels and use of metaphors are just funny.

[NASTYNATI]

No point in arguing with GO on Andy. He has always taken the side of the Coordinator, and has rooted against Andy since day 1 (something I don't understand because he isn't going away)

I dont love Andy and don't hate him either, Im somewhere in between. Do I want him to play better... absolutely, but I also realize that a huge part of his success and failure fall on the shoulders of Gruden, the O-line and the receivers. Based on what I've seen (I don't drink on game days) he is a championship caliber QB when Gruden plans around his strengths and the O-line protects well. He is being asked to throw the ball way too many times period. This offense lacks the balance that is needed when your O-Line doesn't pass block particularly well. The play calling is very predictable at times, Gruden has to do a better job of mixing things up.

Dalton is now and will always be a better QB than Palmer. Im looking forward to seeing how much better he can be with a more balanced offensive attack should they decide to activate Pressley.

[JBandJoeyV]

 
Did you edit this post? Because it says something different than it originally did, and now doesn't make sense.

Yeah I edited it. But that's pretty much what he said which is why it doesn't make sense.

[|kennethmw|]

Intersting nugget from Hobson's latest article:

 

Sunday's two picks? Here seems to be the consensus inside:

Dalton never should have thrown the first one. Bad play from the outset. On the second one, wide receiver A.J. Green didn't respond in the route or to the ball.

 

Not sure if maybe he switched the two? It seems that the second one was the one he shouldn't have thrown. Or maybe none of us really know anything at all (likely)

 

After watching the game on short cuts, the second one did seem like AJ didn't run the right route.  He didn't cut to run an out, he seemed to run a curl or comeback at the top, but never came back.  The bad part was that either way, I think Joe Haden would have been on it.  Haden has become one helluva Corner.  I'd love to have him in stripes.

[SnickyCat]

No point in arguing with GO on Andy. He has always taken the side of the Coordinator, and has rooted against Andy since day 1 (something I don't understand because he isn't going away)

I dont love Andy and don't hate him either, Im somewhere in between. Do I want him to play better... absolutely, but I also realize that a huge part of his success and failure fall on the shoulders of Gruden, the O-line and the receivers. Based on what I've seen (I don't drink on game days) he is a championship caliber QB when Gruden plans around his strengths and the O-line protects well. He is being asked to throw the ball way too many times period. This offense lacks the balance that is needed when your O-Line doesn't pass block particularly well. The play calling is very predictable at times, Gruden has to do a better job of mixing things up.

Dalton is now and will always be a better QB than Palmer. Im looking forward to seeing how much better he can be with a more balanced offensive attack should they decide to activate Pressley.

I feel the same about Dalton as you do....and I hope they decide to activate Pressley. I feel Gio can really take off if we have a true FB.

[ThurmanMunster]

 

 

yea I think Hobson got them backwards.

 

Marvin said on Tuesday that AJ ran the wrong route on the 2nd INT. Also AJ flipped out on the sidelines after the 2nd INT but it was in an area by himself and not directed at anyone. Looked like it was because he was mad at himself. One of the coaches had to go over to him and say something.

[Bengals1181]

 

Marvin said on Tuesday that AJ ran the wrong route on the 2nd INT. Also AJ flipped out on the sidelines after the 2nd INT but it was in an area by himself and not directed at anyone. Looked like it was because he was mad at himself. One of the coaches had to go over to him and say something.

 

 

yea I heard Marvin's comments.  They were interesting, as it counters what everyone else has said/thought.  I still think it was a bad read by Dalton, even if AJ also screwed up on the play.  

[alleycat]

 

 

yea I heard Marvin's comments.  They were interesting, as it counters what everyone else has said/thought.  I still think it was a bad read by Dalton, even if AJ also screwed up on the play.  

That's my take, simply because there were three defenders over there, IIRC, and as I've been saying for a while, I'd really like Dalton to stop forcing the ball to AJ. Looks like Marvin is trying to send him the same message.

[Bengals1181]

That's my take, simply because there were three defenders over there, IIRC, and as I've been saying for a while, I'd really like Dalton to stop forcing the ball to AJ. Looks like Marvin is trying to send him the same message.

 

Marvin specifically said that Tuesday night, though it was in reference to the first INT. 

[ThurmanMunster]

 

Marvin specifically said that Tuesday night, though it was in reference to the first INT. 

 

which i agree with BUT Gruden doesn't call plays to utilize Eifert or Gresham very much and Sanu/Jones are NOT reliable at all. I can see why he force feeds AJ. There needs to be a lot of growth by a lot of people on our offense.

[alleycat]

 

Marvin specifically said that Tuesday night, though it was in reference to the first INT. 

Yeah, but I think we can agree on the concept in principle.  Of course, the fact that it's been backed up by the stats, that Dalton simply performs better when he's getting the ball to everyone backs that up.  I've said this for well over a year, but I really think Dalton's biggest problem is when he feels pressure (and I don't just mean from the Defense), he seems to start distrusting his other receivers and relying even more on AJ.

 

That Gif that T-Dub just posted in the bye-week thread against Baltimore shows it pretty well.  Dalton had the easy hot read, but he had to throw it without thinking.  He paused, and he went down (personally, I think that was a failure by both the O-Line (well, Whitworth) AND Dalton).  All of that said, I still think it's no small coincidence that when Dalton TRULY has time, like in the Jets game, he performs sensationally well.

[alleycat]

 

which i agree with BUT Gruden doesn't call plays to utilize Eifert or Gresham very much and Sanu/Jones are NOT reliable at all. I can see why he force feeds AJ. There needs to be a lot of growth by a lot of people on our offense.

 

It sounds Draconian but I think it might even be worth it, especially perhaps in a game where we get a comfortable lead, to sit AJ for awhile and put Andy in a situation where he has to start getting comfortable without him.  I've seen too many plays where the other receivers were open but Andy would rather try to force the ball to AJ.

[Oldcat]

 

It sounds Draconian but I think it might even be worth it, especially perhaps in a game where we get a comfortable lead, to sit AJ for awhile and put Andy in a situation where he has to start getting comfortable without him.  I've seen too many plays where the other receivers were open but Andy would rather try to force the ball to AJ.

 

The one game he did not have AJ, in his first season on the road vs Baltimore, he did pretty well passing to the likes of Jerome Simpson.

[Bengals1181]

 

 

have at it chief.  It would be quite beneficial for you.  

 

Ironic that you want to do this, considering I've posted for you at least 5 times the stats from 2012 that disprove this "theory", yet you've conveniently never responded to them....

 

Hey, here they are for a 6th time for you to ignore:

 

 

 

 

[Bengals1181]

Two in the first quarter against Cleveland count against his total, but Gruden pointed out the blame should be dispersed. Both came on timing routes not executed correctly to A.J. Green. The first involved a miscommunication between the quarterback and his top receiver while the second, a Joe Haden pick-6, came as Green cut his route off early allowing the interception.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20131125/SPT02/311250140/Turnovers-come-at-high-price-for-Bengals

[Phatcat]

The Cincinnati coaching staff hits the bye week in search of answers. Len Pasquarelli

As is the case with most coaching staffs during their bye week, the Cincinnati contingent did a lot of self scouting last week, poring over video of the first 11 contests to try to correct some of the Bengals inconsistencies of the past three games. Especially the offense, which has sputtered during the 1-2 stretch, and more specifically quarterback Andy Dalton.

The third-year veteran has thrown eight interceptions in the past three outings (versus only five touchdown passes) and has an anemic passer rating of just 55.7 in the three games. Having now suffered four multiple-interception games in 2013, Dalton suddenly has tossed the third most picks in the league (15), behind only Eli Manning (17) and Geno Smith (16). The eight interceptions are the most Dalton has ever thrown in three straight games over the course of his NFL career.

Dalton has taken a fair amount of heat locally hardly unusual because of the position he plays and the leadership status of the 26-year-old with the youthful Bengals but what the Cincinnati staff concluded after a week of assessing the clubs offense is that the shortcomings arent all of his making. In fact, while the Cincinnati coaches acknowledge that Dalton has been part of the offensive slump, some of the criticism is probably unjustified, even though hes completed fewer than 50 percent of his attempts the past two contests and been sacked 10 times in three games.

At the heart of the problem: The Bengals, who statistically rank No. 19 in rushing offense, need to run the ball more effectively, particularly on first down. The team has averaged 5.14 yards per first-down rush and, while that is 12th best in the NFL, the coaches are shooting for something better. More consistency with the run and better production on (first) down, coach Marvin Lewis said of the goals for the final five games of the season. Both have been problems.

Theres been a perception that Dalton has struggled of late because Cincinnati has faced such daunting third-down situations the past three games. And in fact, the average yards-to-make for the Bengals on third down in those games was nearly 7.5 yards. Eighteen times in the three games, an average of six times per game, Cincy confronted third-and-10 or more. Six times, Dalton and the Bengals were looking at third-and-13 or longer. Little wonder Cincinnati converted only 16 of its 53 third-down plays (30.2 percent) against Miami, Baltimore and Cleveland. The Bengals had a decent 42.1 percent conversion ratio (which would rank among the top 10 in the league), by comparison, over the first eight games of the season.

ICON[/size]Dalton has thrown at least one interception in nine of 11 starts this season, with eight over his last three games.

But heres where Daltons deficiencies are a bit overstated: Only two of his eight interceptions over the past three games came on third-down plays.

Instead, Dalton has been an equal-opportunity donor and Cincinnati isnt winning consistently on first down. As a result, he is facing long yards-to-make situations thereafter. The lingering problem has forced coordinator Jay Gruden to probably call more passes than normal and magnified the reality that the Bengals line, especially the interior, hasnt played well. In 11 games, Dalton is on a pace to throw 596 passes in 2013; in his first two seasons, the former TCU standout averaged 522 attempts.

Cincinnati is at its best when Dalton is somewhat insulated, when the Bengals are using all their offensive tools, when the running game is clicking and he is not forced to carry the load as much. Notable is that Cincinnati is just 3-10 in games in which Dalton has thrown 40 or more passes; that includes a 2-3 mark this year. Teams that have scouted Dalton feel that if they can force him backwards a bit in the pocket, his height (6-feet-2) and average arm strength provide them an advantage.

Give him a clean pocket and hes so much better, a rival defensive assistant said. Of course, you can say that about any quarterback, right? But its especially true of him. With his delivery and all, he needs some room to throw, and hes not getting it.

Opponents have crowded the inside against the pass and the run. The perception in the league is that the Bengals arent as physical inside on the line with left guard Clint Boling, center Kyle Cook and right guard Kevin Zeitler and so they play Cincy accordingly. They overplay the inside run and, on many passing downs, emphasize pressure up the middle, in Daltons face. The quick pressure which, ironically, was a staple of the Cincinnati defense, before tackle Geno Atkins was lost with a season-ending knee injury  has forced Dalton into some dubious decisions. At 7-4 and in a dramatically diluted AFC North, and with three of their remaining five games at home and two winnable road contests, the Bengals figure to be a playoff team for a third straight season.

But divining a way to avoid a third consecutive one-and-done in the postseason is important to a franchise with the most talent in the division. And determining how to avoid the fate of the past two seasons is part of what drove the Cincinnati staff in its week away from the field. The conclusion, which might be a surprise to some of his detractors, wasnt simply about fixing the quarterback. It means being smarter and tougher on offense and it will be interesting to see how the Bengals implement those goals in the final five games.

[coup000]

While it provided some interesting insight, that was an odd article. Kind of a mix and match of stats without really pullling them together or drawing conclusions. Saying we are 12th in the league in YPC on 1st down, but listing that as one of the "problems"? Being 12th in anything is pretty solid, firmly in the top half of the league. When you are running out BJGE on most 1st downs, expecting more than 5YPC isn't very realistic. The fact we have averaged over 5YPC on first down is also exteremely surprising....maybe a few long runs have skewed that?

[T-Dub]

Lap made a joke on air the other night, saying Gruden would rather see a pick-6 than a run stuffed for no gain.

He was the only one laughing.

[Bengals1181]

Here's a look at how the 15 INT's break down so far, and if there are any trends:

 

 

 

chicago 1:  picked on a slant, consensus seems to be AJ ran a lazy route

chicago 2:  AJ dropped it and it bounced up in the air

Green Bay:  bad location, threw it behind AJ on an out route

Cleveland:  tipped pass of a zone read sitdown.  can argue it should have been caught, can argue pass could have been a little better

New England:  bad decision not to throw it away while scrambling

Buffalo:  bad read.  never saw the safety in the middle of the field

Jets: fluky play, great play by the defender

Miami 1:  per gruden and green, AJ ran his route wrong

Miami 2:  bad throw by Dalton throwing behind the WR on the out route

Miami 3:  drop by Sanu

Baltimore 1:  (the order may be off on these three)  overthrew Aj on a post route.  may or may not have been wind aided

Baltimore 2: overthrew Eifert.  per Eifert, Dalton said it sailed on him, but it looked like they weren't on same page

Baltimore 3:  Marvin Jones got it ripped out of his hands

Cleveland 1:  per AJ, he ran his route wrong and cut in when he should have cut out.

Cleveland 2:  bad read by Dalton, there were 2 guys between aj and the flight of the ball on an out route

 

 

 

decided to go back and take a slightly different approach here:  Does the number of receiving options on the play, play a factor in Dalton's mentality, and lead him to "force" something when he doesn't have a high number of options.

 

chicago 1:   2 man route, designed slant play

chicago 2:   2 man route, green tips it in air

Green Bay:   5 wide, poor out route by Dalton

Cleveland:   5 wide, tipped off eifert's hands.  slightly high

New England:   5 wide

Buffalo:   4 wide, horrible read

Jets: 5 wide, but designed screen to Gio, so really a "1 man route"

Miami 1:   4 wide, admitted bad route by AJ

Miami 2:   3 wide, bad throw

Miami 3:  2 man route

Baltimore 1:   5 wide

Baltimore 2:  5 wide, completed then ripped out of Jones' hands

Baltimore 3:  5 wide, overthrow

Cleveland 1:   5 wide

Cleveland 2:   4 wide

San Diego:  Initially a 2 man route with a late release by a TE.  Per Dalton, a designed "deep ball to let AJ make a play"

 

 

 

So in short, I guess the answer is no, not really. :lol:

 

4 INT's were on 2 man routes

7 INT's were on 5 man routes

1 INT was on a 5 man route, but was a designed screen pass with only one real receiving option

3 INT's were on 4 man routes

1 INT was on a 3 man route