Imagining life without Collins and Johnson

[Bengals1181]

CINCINNATI -- Brace yourselves, Cincinnati Bengals fans. As the hours start flying by between now and the start of free agency Tuesday afternoon, it is beginning to look more and more as though losing Anthony Collins and Michael Johnson will be a real possibility. 

Collins, the backup offensive tackle who has starter's potential, and Johnson, the formerly franchise-tagged defensive end who is entering free agency with him, are likely too expensive for the Bengals to keep. Reports have already indicated that Collins could command between $6-7.5 million per year from the teams that have courted him during this soon-to-expire three-day legal tampering period. 

 

Johnson could be looking at slightly better numbers that the Bengals just won't be able to match. 

In the event they sign elsewhere, where would that leave the Bengals? Would all hope be lost for the franchise that exhausted as much time and effort as it could at re-signing the pair? Not at all. 

Truthfully, the Bengals are in the envious situation of bringing back a roster that is full of veterans. Even their young players have had significant playing time across the past three seasons. Because the overall depth on the team is solid, particularly at Collins' and Johnson's positions, the Bengals ought to have very little to worry about if they aren't able to re-sign either player. 

Let's focus on offensive tackle first. 

If they are able to re-sign Collins, the Bengals are setting themselves up for a rather tenuous situation on the left side of their offensive line, one that Collins may not want to go through another couple of seasons, let alone one more. 

With Collins back in the rotation at left tackle, the Bengals will have to decide whether they will allow him to start permanently or continue to have him come off the bench as needed. Although he only started seven games last season, Collins still was used quite extensively as a backup to Pro Bowl left tackle Andrew Whitworth and right tackle Andre Smith. If Collins returns and the Bengals start him, it would mean Cincinnati was moving Whitworth from left tackle to left guard, forcing previous starting left guard Clint Boling to the bench. Boling started 12 games last season until an ACL injury early in the Week 13 game at San Diego ended his season. To replace him, the Bengals moved over Whitworth and started Collins. 

From a financial standpoint, the only way Collins would return to Cincinnati is if the Bengals could match an offer that would pay him close to $6 million a year. That's a lot of money to pay him to ride the bench again, so team officials would have to think long and hard about how much they wanted to shake up the lineup with his return. It wouldn't necessarily be a bad decision to have. 

The reasons for such free-agency frugality are many. Among them include the team's hopes of re-signing each of its three tendered restricted free agents, keeping several of its other less pricy unrestricted free agents, making pushes to extend quarterback Andy Dalton, receiver A.J. Green and linebacker Vontaze Burfict a year early, and just trying to balance the books. Even with a salary cap that's about $7 million more than expected, so much of the nearly $30 million the Bengals have in cap space will be eaten by other budgetary obligations before some $15 million miraculously appears for Collins and Johnson to get paid. 

Speaking of Johnson, a logjam similar to what Collins could be facing might be staring at Johnson and his fellow defensive ends if he re-signs. 

After placing the franchise tag on Johnson last March, the Bengals re-signed defensive endsRobert Geathers and Wallace Gilberry and drafted Margus Hunt in hopes of building up their depth and talent at the right end spot. Their thinking last offseason was to simply get the position group ready in the event they were unable to re-sign Johnson this offseason. Geathers' season-ending elbow injury in Week 2 helped the Bengals avoid any playing-time issues at the position last season. 

Coupled with an expected healthy Geno Atkins at defensive tackle and Carlos Dunlap at defensive end, the rotation of Geathers, Gilberry and Hunt should give the Bengals a measure of freshness and relief at Johnson's old spot. 

Life in Cincinnati without Collins and Johnson also could include draft picks in May as the Bengals start looking even further into their future for replacements for veterans like Whitworth, Geathers and Gilberry. With draft picks coming and what Cincinnati already has in place, it's a future that's not as dark and morbid as many might want to believe. 

Yes, Collins and Johnson were the big metaphorical fish they had hoped to land once again.

But get ready, Bengals fans, because you may soon have no choice but watch your organization adapt to life without them.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/6087/bengals-michael-johnson-anthony-collins-post-life-free-agency

[|SF2|]

Well, the reality is we now have very good backups who can start for really shitty teams.  Used to be the other way around for us.

 

Collins is a good player and will be a good starter somewhere else.  We simply don't have a starting spot for him.

[Le Tigre]

The last sentence was as obtuse as the entire article was apologetic. 

 

I have to insert "duh" someplace also, but not exactly sure where. 

[Bengals1181]

High time Bengals' 'Fisher Price D' grew up

 

CINCINNATI -- There was no shock in the news. No awe was inspired by the announcement. It was all expected. 
 

For five years it was expected. 

 

When the Cincinnati Bengals began laying the framework for their Mike Zimmer-led defense, a unit that in 2009 was only one year into being guided by the now former defensive coordinator, they were making a bold turn in philosophy. Yes, they wanted good linebackers. They wanted better-than-average cornerbacks and safeties if they could get them, too. But above all that, they wanted to build a defensive line that put unrelenting pressure on quarterbacks. 

Michael Johnson was the guinea pig in Zimmer's grand experiment, one that a year later brought the likes of Carlos Dunlap and Geno Atkins to Cincinnati. Because of their youth, the trio of defensive linemen earned a nickname: "the Fisher Price defense." 

The Fisher Price kids have grown up. Their bank accounts have matured. 

One year after Dunlap and Atkins cashed in on long-term, multi-million-dollar deals, Johnson on Tuesday agreed to a five-year contract with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers that's reportedly worth $43.75 million. The free agent defensive end anticipates making $24 million of guaranteed money, according to ESPN's Josina Anderson. The approximate $8.75 million per year figure he'll be earning was higher than what the Bengals would have been able to match, particularly with offensive tackle Anthony Collins also a free agent target of theirs. Quarterback Andy Dalton, receiver A.J. Green and linebacker Vontaze Burfict also have contracts that expire next year. 

It has been a foregone conclusion since last March when Johnson was slapped with the team's franchise tag that he likely would be gone this offseason. A case also could be made that as far back as 2009, it was unlikely he would be a Bengals lifer. Then again, as long as they produced, the same could have been said for Dunlap or Atkins in 2010, too. 

Back when he was drafted in the third round out of Georgia Tech, questions about Johnson's size, motor and durability hung over him. Some weren't sure how well he could translate long-term, and so he dipped into the third round. Zimmer, Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis and their scouting staff saw something. Each believed he could project into the highly valued end that he became the last two years. So they drafted him. 

Similar sentiments could be expressed about Dunlap and Atkins. When Dunlap arrived, the second-round pick was pushed hard both publicly in practices and privately in meeting rooms by Zimmer, who foresaw more potential than the lineman initially put out. Atkins was a fourth-rounder who many didn't originally think had an NFL future simply because he waddled instead of walked like most defensive tackles. 

Once all three began getting to quarterbacks and climbing up the Bengals' sack charts, though, the questions faded away. Johnson's motor suddenly was fine. Dunlap began pleasing Zimmer. Atkins' duck-walk started drawing praise. The baby Bengals were going to be fully grown before too long. Holding on to each of them beyond their first deals was going to be virtually impossible. 

Cincinnati began learning that lesson last offseason when it was faced with the unenviable task of trying to figure out how to bring back all three. Johnson was up for a new contract, but they didn't want to let him get away. Atkins and Dunlap had another year before their rookie contracts expired, but Cincinnati wanted them, too. So ownership made the difficult decision to tag Johnson while working out new deals for the other two (five years, $55 million for Atkins; five years, $40 million for Dunlap). At the same time, other steps were being taken to ensure the Bengals would be OK for that moment when Johnson, the eldest of their "Fisher Price" stars, decided it best to leave the nest. He loved Cincinnati, though, so the only way he would leave was is if the money just wasn't able to match up. After the Seahawks reportedly offered end Michael Bennett about $8 million per year Monday, it started getting even clearer that Johnson wouldn't be coming back to the Bengals. 

As they anticipated Johnson's likely departure, the Bengals re-signed Wallace Gilberry and Robert Geathers last offseason while also drafting Margus Hunt in the second round. It was their belief that in the event Johnson would cost too much this year, at least they had a pair of veterans and another young, but learning player to replace him with. 

It was because of those steps that the Bengals can proudly bid farewell to the player who was the first and perhaps most crucial piece to the establishment of their young defensive line unit. It's much the same pride they felt when Zimmer, the man who built and nurtured the unit for five years, moved on to become a head coach for the first time in January. Like Zimmer, the expectation for Johnson's departure has been in the works for some time. 

While there surely will be many in Cincinnati who will miss Johnson and his often lauded charitable spirit, they must also know that his time simply had come. The leader of the young Bengals has, like the rest of them, grown up.

 

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/6122/bengals-michael-johnon-defense-free-agency-grow-up

[B.A.B.]

So...who's the starter at LT with Collins gone. BAck to Whit?

[Bengals1181]

So...who's the starter at LT with Collins gone. BAck to Whit?

 

 

Whit at LT, Boling or Pollak at LG.

 

 

Also basically assures that a left tackle will be one of the first 2 picks in the draft.

[JBandJoeyV]

I'd try to find a guy similar to whit in the draft. A second round guy that can be a solid LT or guard.

Then you take whit, the second rounder, boling and pollack to fill 2 positions with the other two being decent back ups.

[B.A.B.]

 

 

Whit at LT, Boling or Pollak at LG.

 

 

Also basically assures that a left tackle will be one of the first 2 picks in the draft.

Meh. Any chance of getting a tackle with our first? I've got no clue about any of the college kids coming out this year admittedly. Whit would probably be better suited inside for the rest of his career, wouldn't he?. He was never the quickest and I'm pretty sure he's like 32. He looked good

[Bengals1181]

I'd try to find a guy similar to whit in the draft. A second round guy that can be a solid LT or guard.

Then you take whit, the second rounder, boling and pollack to fill 2 positions with the other two being decent back ups.

 

 

Zack Martin reminds me a lot of Whit, if he makes it to 24.

[MichaelWeston]

 

 

Zack Martin reminds me a lot of Whit, if he makes it to 24.

For some reason I really see him with the Dolphins. Not rally sure why but its what I see. 

[JBandJoeyV]

For some reason I really see him with the Dolphins. Not rally sure why but its what I see. 

Prob cause his name is a combination of two dolphin all time greats. Zach Thomas and....Jonathan Martin.

[texbengal]

I'd try to find a guy similar to whit in the draft. A second round guy that can be a solid LT or guard.
Then you take whit, the second rounder, boling and pollack to fill 2 positions with the other two being decent back ups.

One guy who impressed athletically to me has been Joel Bitonio. Really athletic, good size. Saw him interviewed... Seems bright.

[Oldcat]

Meh. Any chance of getting a tackle with our first? I've got no clue about any of the college kids coming out this year admittedly. Whit would probably be better suited inside for the rest of his career, wouldn't he?. He was never the quickest and I'm pretty sure he's like 32. He looked good

 

First or Second round, either way gives you Whit to play outside while the dude learns, and then flip them if the young guy shows he can do it.  And we actually have that OT Hawkinson who might be a wild card already on the roster.

[Orange 'n Black]

 

First or Second round, either way gives you Whit to play outside while the dude learns, and then flip them if the young guy shows he can do it.  And we actually have that OT Hawkinson who might be a wild card already on the roster.

 

I keep hearing Hawkinson tossed around and I hope he plays up to the hype. Supposedly he's a legit candidate to compete for the LG job. Between him, Pollak, and Boling, we ought to be fine at that position. Whoever loses will be a fine backup, maybe even the next AC.

[Bengals1181]

 

I keep hearing Hawkinson tossed around and I hope he plays up to the hype. Supposedly he's a legit candidate to compete for the LG job. Between him, Pollak, and Boling, we ought to be fine at that position. Whoever loses will be a fine backup, maybe even the next AC.

 

 

I wouldn't count Hawkinson as OT depth.  The coaches seem to think he's a future interior guy.  

[MichaelWeston]

 

 

I wouldn't count Hawkinson as OT depth.  The coaches seem to think he's a future interior guy.  

Really. I thought they talked alot about his ability to play all the line spots and remarked specifically on his athleticism for the LT spot when he was drafted. I have not seen much since though. 

[Oldcat]

 

I keep hearing Hawkinson tossed around and I hope he plays up to the hype. Supposedly he's a legit candidate to compete for the LG job. Between him, Pollak, and Boling, we ought to be fine at that position. Whoever loses will be a fine backup, maybe even the next AC.

 

No idea how he turns out, but he did play a lot of downs in college in a decent conference.  I remember the year everyone thought the team would draft C, sign a FA center and they didn't because they had Cook ready to go.

[cwing]

The team is now a little worse than they were before. Before you flame me, just think about it. They lost their best graded oline in Collins and a young star and team leader on the end of the dline.

I know the short term answer is to move Whit back out and plug in a guard but Collins graded better and Whit's best days at LT are likely behind him. In my opinion, Collins was better than whit at LT and Whit was by far their best LG. Center is an unknown and Clint may not be the answer plus he is coming off a serious injury.

At the end of the day, AJ, Gio and the rest of the toys will have dry little impact without a front.

No, this does not mean the dream is over. We need to see how guys develop and what players are brought in but the Collins loss is going to hurt more than most will admit.

[cwing]

I keep hearing Hawkinson tossed around and I hope he plays up to the hype. Supposedly he's a legit candidate to compete for the LG job. Between him, Pollak, and Boling, we ought to be fine at that position. Whoever loses will be a fine backup, maybe even the next AC.

Hearing about an oline man being "tossed around" isn't usually a good thing. That was the MO I heard allot about Robinson when Cook was down. Before the loss of Collins, I was thinking Pollak would be the center. Boling, not impressed before the injury and I doubt the injury helps him get any better or any stronger. Clearly, the position was improved when Whit moved inside.

[Orange 'n Black]

Hearing about an oline man being "tossed around" isn't usually a good thing. That was the MO I heard allot about Robinson when Cook was down. Before the loss of Collins, I was thinking Pollak would be the center. Boling, not impressed before the injury and I doubt the injury helps him get any better or any stronger. Clearly, the position was improved when Whit moved inside.

 

Not literally tossed around, just that the name keeps popping up as a guy the coaches really like. 

 

I disagree about Collins v Whit. Whit is clearly a better LT and still is. However the line as a unit performed better overall with Collins at LT and Whit at LG, though not as well in the run game - likely because Whit is such a great LG as well. The interior line just did not play well at all this year no matter the configuration. Cook, Boling, and Zeitler were hurt at different points, Pollak played all over. Whit was hurt all year. I think with a healthy Whit and Zeitler, Pollak at C, and the best of Boling/Hawkinson/draft pick at LG, we won't miss COllins a bit.

[|kennethmw|]

The team is now a little worse than they were before. Before you flame me, just think about it. They lost their best graded oline in Collins and a young star and team leader on the end of the dline.

I know the short term answer is to move Whit back out and plug in a guard but Collins graded better and Whit's best days at LT are likely behind him. In my opinion, Collins was better than whit at LT and Whit was by far their best LG. Center is an unknown and Clint may not be the answer plus he is coming off a serious injury.

At the end of the day, AJ, Gio and the rest of the toys will have dry little impact without a front.

No, this does not mean the dream is over. We need to see how guys develop and what players are brought in but the Collins loss is going to hurt more than most will admit.

 

I won't flame you, but we lost our third best tackle, our third best defensive lineman and our 4th best wide receiver.  They were all good players, but they are not irreplaceable, and in fact, we drafted players just last year in case we did lose the first two.  We all know the Bengals will selectively find solid FA to fill spots if necessary over the next few weeks.

[blueridge]

I can hardly believe people are wringing their hands over the loss of Collins. The guy was a 6-year career back-up. He turned a handful of good games last season into a ticket out of town. He's nowhere near the LT that Whit has been. If Collins had been half the team guy Whit is, Collins would have filled the gap at LG. Collins refused to play G. I also find it hard to believe people who say we have to take an OT with a 1rst or 2d round pick because Collins left. Talk about an overreaction.

[blueridge]

 

 

Zack Martin reminds me a lot of Whit, if he makes it to 24.

Not similar at all

[Oldcat]

I can hardly believe people are wringing their hands over the loss of Collins. The guy was a 6-year career back-up. He turned a handful of good games last season into a ticket out of town. He's nowhere near the LT that Whit has been. If Collins had been half the team guy Whit is, Collins would have filled the gap at LG. Collins refused to play G. I also find it hard to believe people who say we have to take an OT with a 1rst or 2d round pick because Collins left. Talk about an overreaction.

 

Since Whit has some years left, a plan would be to do what we did with Whit - get one a bit later, let him work in at G and swing to OT later.

[JBandJoeyV]

 

Since Whit has some years left, a plan would be to do what we did with Whit - get one a bit later, let him work in at G and swing to OT later.

 

I agree thats great in theory, but how often does a 2nd round pick turn out as good as whit? Maybe a quarter of the time?

 

Im just saying, im concerned about the oline if we dont do something in FA. Theres still time to do stuff, but id be a lot happier with a starting C or LG or LT signed in FA and let Whit and Pollack take the remaining two spots. Use the draft pick to back up and eventually take over.