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5 minutes ago, membengal said:

Good grief. No one rational thinks they are gonna add four offensive linemen. 
 

But they can add two in FA and another in round 2 or 3 and still draft chase or pitts or waddle if Sewell is gone.

 

Then who rushes the passer? That position is more important than 3rd pass catcher as well. 

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Here's the thing...Jonah Williams is going absolutely nowhere, so if they sign 2 starters in FA up front where is the need for a top 5 OL?   Now if they do absolutely nothing in the off-season to

I'll do you one better where we still get Chase.   1. OL - Thuney, Alex Leatherwood in the 2nd round to play RT. Resign Quinton Spain 2. WR - Jamar Chase with the 1st pick 3. You c

Good grief. No one rational thinks they are gonna add four offensive linemen.    But they can add two in FA and another in round 2 or 3 and still draft chase or pitts or waddle if Sewell is gon

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12 minutes ago, MichaelWeston said:

 

Then who rushes the passer? That position is more important than 3rd pass catcher as well. 

This..

How would a team expect to help back 7 with no pass pressure?

Come on man!

 

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If you trade back to the middle of the first and compile picks enough to get a tackle and a pass rusher in the late first or early second then by all means take Waddle. 

 

Otherwise it's OL Rd 1 or bust then passrushers....then your 3rd WR option can be a FA or a mid round draft pick. You add both. You already got Tate. And Kyle Rudolph is an obvious addition. 

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1 minute ago, MichaelWeston said:

If you trade back to the middle of the first and compile picks enough to get a tackle and a pass rusher in the late first or early second then by all means take Waddle. 

 

Otherwise it's OL Rd 1 or bust then passrushers....then your 3rd WR option can be a FA or a mid round draft pick. You add both. You already got Tate. And Kyle Rudolph is an obvious addition. 

Hopefully they sign Moten to solidify the Tackle position..

Itll cost but hes worth it..

If not hopefully Sewell is there..

If not id take Darrishaw over Slater all day long..

At 5?..Well i want a good tackle and hes projected to be one. 

2bd round i take Jayon Twyman from Pitt..

Now we have a good OT prospect and and a 3 tech pass rusher in the interior..

Take your skilled dudes after that..

Build your llines to help the rest..

 

 

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34 minutes ago, MichaelWeston said:

 

Then who rushes the passer? That position is more important than 3rd pass catcher as well. 

 

Except the third pass catcher would likely be Boyd. 

And who are the pass rushers that grade out ahead of Smith/Chase/Pitts?

 

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8 minutes ago, spicoli said:

 

Except the third pass catcher would likely be Boyd. 

And who are the pass rushers that grade out ahead of Smith/Chase/Pitts?

 

Any decent receivers will flourish with time to get open.

A good oline will provide that..ask Cleveland.

To pressure a QB to get him out if his element helps the whole defense..Some teams never understand this concept..

 

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5 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

A good oline will provide that..ask Cleveland.

 

 

Then spend the $$ and get those guys in FA.

That frees you up to get the guys that put the points on the scoreboard in the draft.

That's what it's all about..scoring more points than the other team.

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Just now, spicoli said:

 

Then spend the $$ and get those guys in FA.

That frees you up to get the guys that put the points on the board in the draft.

That's what it's all about. 

Its about giving your QB the luxury if feeling like hes protected long enough to complete a pass and disrupting his counterpart..

 

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11 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

Its about giving your QB the luxury if feeling like hes protected long enough to complete a pass and disrupting his counterpart..

 

 

I mean are you not comprehending the fact that I'm saying fix the o-line BEFORE the draft?

Put yourself in a position to draft the very best player you can get, that's all I'm saying.  

In this draft, where we're picking, that's going to be a WR or Pitts, IMO. 

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10 minutes ago, spicoli said:

 

I mean are you not comprehending the fact that I'm saying fix the o-line BEFORE the draft?

Put yourself in a position to draft the very best player you can get, that's all I'm saying.  

In this draft, that's going to be a WR or Pitts, IMO. 

No...if you dont sign Moten or get Sewell you take the best prospect to help your oline and then a pass rushing dlineman.. 

Christian Darrishaw can help at RT..

Jayson Twyman can. provide pressue from the interior .

Whoever drafts these two will.beniifit from their talent. 

They're that good!

Hopefully its the Bengals ..

 

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There is no doubt that protecting Joe is Job 1 this offseason.  But I would rather do that in free agency with proven commodities that true that 2 rookies will come in and automatically be average or better OL. I also think that Sewell is the only OL worth taking at 5, and I'm not convinced he will be there, and we can't bank on it.  So go after the OL in free agency then take BPA at 5.  If we don't get the free agent OL and Sewell is gone, I would still take Chase if he's there.  This offense needs a reliable deep threat to complete the package.  But I wouldn't object to trading back.  This draft class is deep with OL who could be upgrades.

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Another option is to sign good Free agent OL to 1 years deals and STILL draft Sewell. 

 

Excellent article in the Athletic today on team building:

 

Lombardi: Want to build a title-winning team? Don’t overemphasize skill players

 

 

On Super Bowl Sunday, we were reminded of the oldest lesson in winning football games: Championship teams win at the line of scrimmage. It’s a lesson we often ignore because it’s not sexy, it’s hard for many to evaluate, and at times it’s hidden by great quarterbacking and scheme. But when a team cannot run block, pass protect or keep its quarterback from getting hit, it does not matter if it has the best quarterback in all of football, or the best receiver, or even the best tight end. If the quarterback does not have time to throw, having the best isn’t much different from having the worst. The results are the same: bad.

Over the years, football has gone from a running league to a passing league as it has attempted to take some of the violence out of the game. But the one main constant is the importance of blocking, protecting and harassing the opposing quarterback. No matter what the NFL does to alter the game in the next 25 years, being able to pass protect and play physical will remain the key. What won when George Halas or Vince Lombardi coached still wins today.

We witnessed a blatant example of this lesson when the team with the greatest collection of skill players in the NFL, the Kansas City Chiefs, did not score a touchdown in the Super Bowl against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Still, so many people think the answer to improving a team is to add more skill players. We’re now entering NFL Draft craze, and many mocks will have a good number of wide receivers going in the first round. That looks great on paper, but some of those teams cannot block or protect, so what good would adding another skill player be? The logic behind picking a receiver is that it will expand the passing game, giving the quarterback more options. And, quite simply, the more skill you place around the quarterback, the better he will play.

But do you think it was a lack of skill that prevented Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers from beating the Bucs? Or was it that he was sacked five times, was hit multiple times more and was running for his life most of the game? All year, the constant refrain from anyone talking about the Packers was that Rodgers needed more weapons. Of course, who wouldn’t want more weapons? However, weapons would not solve all of the Packers’ problems. What Rodgers needs is what all quarterbacks need: a complete team. He needs better protection; he needed a healthy David Bakhtiari and a better right tackle; he needs a better defensive game plan and execution and elite special-teams players who can control field position.

Great quarterbacks — all of them — need help, and Rodgers is no exception. During his incredible 12-year career as a starter, Rodgers has played in 19 playoff games and five conference championship games, and he has won one Super Bowl. Based on his elite skill set, Rodgers should easily have three or four Super Bowl wins under his belt. He doesn’t, and the reason isn’t that the team didn’t give him more skill players. Great quarterbacks can win regular-season games — even a playoff game — but great teams win championships. Look at Peyton Manning.

Manning is the best quarterback I have ever played against — it’s not even close. He was remarkable in every aspect, had excellent skill players surrounding him and could make the right call, control the game at the line of scrimmage and make the offense flow effortlessly. Knowing you were facing Manning was a nightmare week for everyone. From 1998 until 2010, during his time in Indy, Manning went to the playoffs in 11 of 13 seasons, with a 9-10 record, one Super Bowl win, two appearances and three conference championships. That seems light in Super Bowl wins considering the talent, right?

Naturally, there was a perception that Manning never played well in the biggest of games, which is complete hogwash. Like Rodgers, Manning will always play well; the team around them falls short. Football requires cohesive talent in every phase. It’s not the NBA; one player cannot carry an NFL team. Yes, the quarterback is vitally important and should be the team’s highest-paid player, bearing the biggest burden for winning. Yet they all need help — not by adding more skill but by adding the essence of what wins championships.

In preparing for the draft or free agency, the first question every coach or general manager will ask scouts or any evaluator regarding the quarterback is: Can this player win a Super Bowl for us? They ask the question as if one player can perform magic. But it takes more than an elite quarterback to win titles. How would any executive answer that question regarding Joe Flacco, Nick Foles, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams or Mark Rypien? There is no way any of them would have gotten a “yes” on that question, but they won a title — or, better yet, the team won with their help. Building the right team around the quarterback is as important as acquiring the right quarterback. It’s a huge puzzle and not one piece fits without the other, especially when competing for the highest honors.

And that’s my point. It takes more than an elite quarterback, and it takes way more than adding skill. Most importantly, it takes understanding what the quarterback does well and building an offense around that skill set, like the Browns did this year with Baker Mayfield. Mayfield alone could never carry a team to the title. He can be part of a championship team as long as he isn’t being paid all the money, like Kirk Cousins in Minnesota.

Cousins is not an elite player; he needs a great offensive system around him, a talented offensive line, a solid defense and a kicking game. When you’re paying him so much money, those areas take a hit, which ends up hurting the team and putting more pressure on Cousins to carry the team alone, which he can’t. Cousins will end up with a financial windfall, and at some point, after his playing days are over, he’ll likely regret not winning a title. His bank account will look great, but his fingers won’t have any rings. If the Browns have to pay Mayfield elite money even though he is not elite, it will create problems, much like when the Rams overpaid Jared Goff.

The main job of any successful organization is to identify the specific skill set, develop the system’s skills and build the team around that talent. It’s a three-pronged question with three solutions. Quarterbacks need to be in the right system, and not all systems can fit everyone. Joe Montana was perfect for the West Coast offense, so was Steve Young. When the system fits the player, magic can occur. Why is Ryan Tannehill better for Tennessee than Miami? Because Tennessee is all play-action, not much drop-back, so Tannehill does not have to rely on his innate instincts. He can fake a handoff, force the defense to react, then throw the ball to an open receiver. The Titans devised a scheme that fits Tannehill. More teams need to do this.

The Ravens will have a decision to make on quarterback Lamar Jackson soon. Jackson was the league MVP in 2019 and still does not throw the ball outside the numbers with regularity, which makes paying him elite money risky. The Ravens have made Jackson productive in his first three seasons because they had no choice. They were never going to run a traditional offense around his skill set, so they developed an offense that served them well for the time being — but not anymore.

The Ravens keep asking themselves the wrong question. They want to know if Jackson can improve throwing the ball outside the numbers, but they aren’t finding ways to help him do that. The Ravens’ offense is as much to blame for the inability to throw outside as Jackson is; they have not evolved. The Ravens continue to want to make Jackson an RPO quarterback, limiting his development. If they put Jackson under center and ran more hard play-action and boots, Jackson would attack the outside part of the field with more consistency. The Ravens are questioning whether Jackson can win playoff games; they need to question their offensive scheme.

It’s not as if the Ravens haven’t been down this road before. When they selected Joe Flacco in the first round of the 2008 draft, they hired Cam Cameron to be his offensive coordinator, which meant Flacco had to run Cameron’s offense even though it was not the best offense for his skill set. After making a change and bringing in Jim Caldwell, the Ravens won a Super Bowl in 2012. In the divisional round that year, they were seemingly going to lose to the Broncos in Denver, with Peyton Manning leading the way, until a highly unlikely touchdown pass from Flacco to Jacoby Jones sent the game to overtime and allowed the Ravens to steal a win. That unbelievable play propelled the Ravens to the Super Bowl, and Flacco played a role — a significant, important one  — but he could not carry the team; he was not the centerpiece.

After the Super Bowl win, Flacco was rewarded with a top quarterback salary, which then put more pressure on him to carry the team, which he couldn’t handle. It took the Ravens five years to adjust the offense to make Flacco effective — and then they overpaid him, which killed their team. The lesson learned is that few quarterbacks are elite, and they all need to have the right offensive scheme and game approach. Before the Ravens pay Jackson, they better redesign their offense to maximize his skill set or they will have a high-priced player in the wrong scheme, which only spells disaster.

As we monitor the quarterback movement this offseason, don’t assume that getting a good QB will mean instant success. And don’t assume that giving him top weapons while ignoring other areas is the best use of money or draft capital. Acquiring a quarterback is vital; determining how he fits the offense is even more important. The scheme fit and the team fit also matter. Having a great line on offense and defense and being able to control field position will matter just as much. And rooting for your team to give all the money to one player might solve one problem, but it will often create many more.

Football may change, but how teams win championships never will.

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11 hours ago, MichaelWeston said:

We can't add 4 lineman and a stud pass catcher. 

 

The difference in impact a first round OL vs a first round pass catcher makes for this team is monumental. It would be like buying a spoiler for your car when you don't have tires. 

 

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that we shouldn't fix the O-line. That has to be priority #1. But if they are able to address the major pieces of that in FA, take the top WR on the board, a protected Joe Burrow with as many weapons as possible makes this team dangerous. 

 

Hell I'll go so far as saying if they don't do anything in FA to address the Oline and Sewell is off the board at 5 and Chase is still there I take Chase and find a T in 2 that can play RT. Because you can still get good G's in 3 and 4. 

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10 hours ago, MichaelWeston said:

 

Then who rushes the passer? That position is more important than 3rd pass catcher as well. 

 

You don't fix everything in 1 year, and from what I have read after the 1st round pass rushers isn't a strength of this draft. 

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10 hours ago, MichaelWeston said:

If you trade back to the middle of the first and compile picks enough to get a tackle and a pass rusher in the late first or early second then by all means take Waddle. 

 

Otherwise it's OL Rd 1 or bust then passrushers....then your 3rd WR option can be a FA or a mid round draft pick. You add both. You already got Tate. And Kyle Rudolph is an obvious addition. 

 

 

You use FA to address needs and the draft to take the best talent. imho Sewell is rated higher on big boards than Chase, but Chase is rated higher than any of the DEs. 

 

Taking players for need over talent is exactly what we did in the 90s.

 

The only time you should take for need over talent is when the talent is close.

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3 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Another option is to sign good Free agent OL to 1 years deals and STILL draft Sewell.

If he’s there. No guarantee of that. 

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13 hours ago, spicoli said:

 

Except the third pass catcher would likely be Boyd. 

And who are the pass rushers that grade out ahead of Smith/Chase/Pitts?

 

Boyd is a 1000 yard pass catcher. Why are we upgrading over a 1000 yard pass catcher who might be the best slot receiver in the game?

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14 hours ago, MichaelWeston said:

 

Then who rushes the passer? That position is more important than 3rd pass catcher as well. 

Lawson. Another FA (non-premium because there are a ton out there). A draft pick in 2nd or 3rd round. This isn't zero sum game.

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4 minutes ago, MichaelWeston said:

Boyd is a 1000 yard pass catcher. Why are we upgrading over a 1000 yard pass catcher who might be the best slot receiver in the game?

Boyd doesn't play outside, they have a gaping yawning chasm opposite Higgins - and Higgins isn't a burner. 

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3 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

You don't fix everything in 1 year, and from what I have read after the 1st round pass rushers isn't a strength of this draft. 

Its easy to fix almost everything this year

 

1-OL-Thuney-Sewell/Darrisaw-Another FA

2-WR-Vet cheap guy as 3rd WR and draft a 4th rounder who can run

3-DT-Keep Geno at a reduced rate or another DT who can create pressure and then draft a 2/3rd rounder

4-Sign Lawson and a Veteran DE Pass rusher (Always one available surprisingly) and draft one in the 2/3rd round.

5-Sign a nickel corner....they are usually cheaper

 

That team can compete. Even without WJ who I would love to have back. 

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10 minutes ago, membengal said:

Lawson. Another FA (non-premium because there are a ton out there). A draft pick in 2nd or 3rd round. This isn't zero sum game.

 

You can add 3 players in the top 3 rounds to the lines. That should be the goal. If we get an added pick MAYBE take a luxury pick in the 3rd WR. Probably take another lineman. 

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10 minutes ago, membengal said:

Boyd doesn't play outside, they have a gaping yawning chasm opposite Higgins - and Higgins isn't a burner. 

 

Sure, but that doesn't need filled with the 5th overall pick. That could be Breshad Perriman and we could be fine because we have 2 studs already. Or Chris Conley and then you have his blocking too. 

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