Joe Burrow pushes the Bengals front office regarding the futures of Tee Higgins, Ja'Marr Chase

[I_C_Deadpeople]

30 minutes ago, Spotto said:

I would use the Tee money to ensure we have two improved Guards next year.

 

Give Joe extra time with the ball, no more "superman scrambles" and he'll be like Tom Brady with lots of time in the pocket; he'll make any WR look good and even allow Jamar to get more sepration.  Look out!!!

Problem is we wont do that. We will say we will then get outbid for the good guys leaving meh guys and no Tee. 

[claptonrocks]

4 hours ago, sparky151 said:

 

If the team gives Chase and Higgins new contracts that average a combined 60 mil per year, the team can afford it without too much trouble. I think Chase would take 36 mil per year on this new deal (1 mil more than Jefferson and making him the highest paid non-QB in the league). I think Tee would take 24 mil per year. Currently Chase is on the 2025 cap at 22 mil and if we re-tag Tee he would cost 26, for a combined 48 mil. Cut Rankins and you're at the 60 threshold without losing much. 

 

The 2 good WRs are the team's competitive advantage. I'd like to see a stronger running game with IOL upgrades but the defense is the main issue. If the new DC's scheme can generate more pass rush, we'll be ok there.

 

 

Yes, Joe has said he'd do whatever is needed to keep Ja'Marr and Tee. Not sure if he means an actual pay reduction or just a restructuring. 

Chase is not going to o take 36 per..no how no way

He thinks isn't take ng 25 per year.

Their agent might be reasonable to deal with but

he knows their market value and it's going to take that to sign them

My guess would be

Chase....5 yrs..40 per..200 mil....120 guaranteed

Higgins..4 yrs..28 per..112 mil.....65  guaranteed.

I might be low balling them a few mil per.

 

Watch Katy tag them both and milk it.

 

[LostInDaJungle]

3 hours ago, Spotto said:

I would use the Tee money to ensure we have two improved Guards next year.

You would take money away from one of the most important skill positions in football to spend it on Offensive Guards??? Which ranks right above FB in least valuable?

[LostInDaJungle]

14 hours ago, SF2 said:

The best teams in the league don't tie up that kind of money with 4 players. 

[claptonrocks]

1 minute ago, LostInDaJungle said:

You would take money away from one of the most important skill positions in football to spend it on Offensive Guards??? Which ranks right above FB in least valuable?

Draft guards.

Nasty ones..

[claptonrocks]

1 minute ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Juwan Taylor has been  a massive bust.

19 mil is alot of to  eat up for a bad player.

 

 

[LostInDaJungle]

14 hours ago, SF2 said:

The best teams in the league don't tie up that kind of money with 4 players.

[LostInDaJungle]

1 minute ago, claptonrocks said:

Juwan Taylor has been  a massive bust.

19 mil is alot of to  eat up for a bad player.

 

 

Any amount is too much for a bad player. FA's are inherently riskier than signing guys you already know that already work in your system.

You know who isn't on those lists...

Madibuke who signed a 4 year $100M deal that was too rich for us to consider in the offseason.

Chris Jones, who signed a 5 year $159M contract last year.

Creed Humphrey who was extended for 4 years, $72M.

Roquan Smith - 5 years $100M.

I'll say it again for the folks in the back - There is PLENTY of money to sign Tee. It's not even a question, really. They could franchise him again and still have $44M in cap room. (Meanwhile we could have signed Madibuke and Smith for a combined $17M against the cap if we followed Baltimore's contract structure.) You can still go get Chase Young and Jeff Odukah with that. DT is thin enough this year that Hill might be the best available.

Some of you are so gaslit by Katie giving you her mean girl stare you're still buying into the completely laughable narrative that they either don't have the money, or would use it more wisely than getting pretty much the #1 Free Agent in next year's class. Like they'll be willing to open up the pocketbook for some FA worth signing to begin with. Sure we might find an under appreciated gem like Hendrickson, but we've seen a lot more La'el Collins and Sheldon Rankins than your typical insurer would like. But you can pretty much look at the top two FA's at most positions and know that's not who the Bengals are going to get. C'mon. Are you new here?

You think they're going to spend $26M in any way other than passing out some 2 year "prove it" deals to guys like Stone and Rankins?

Get those two cap hits in the $22M combined range with a contract like the Vikes gave Jefferson... You have Tee Higgins signed and $70M in cap space. You can have any FA you want. (With no cuts except Rankins)

https://www.pff.com/news/2025-nfl-free-agency-primer-top-10-free-agents-at-every-position

If we DON'T sign Tee, we still have to use a high draft pick on a receiver... I'd rather keep a younger Tee Higgins and pick up line help in the draft than sign a 30 year old Reddick. BJ Hill is the 3rd best DT available! Is DJ Reed going to break the bank??

Sign them both, make your FA moves, and then extend Hendrickson with most of the hit coming in 2025 (roster/workout bonus) to eat up leftover space. This isn't rocket science. It comes down to how good our GM is. Thanks to Katie's responsible cap management, we're in an excellent position. A 28 year old Joe Burrow is the time to f***ing use the cap space.

[claptonrocks]

8 hours ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Any amount is too much for a bad player. FA's are inherently riskier than signing guys you already know that already work in your system.

You know who isn't on those lists...

Madibuke who signed a 4 year $100M deal that was too rich for us to consider in the offseason.

Chris Jones, who signed a 5 year $159M contract last year.

Creed Humphrey who was extended for 4 years, $72M.

Roquan Smith - 5 years $100M.

I'll say it again for the folks in the back - There is PLENTY of money to sign Tee. It's not even a question, really. They could franchise him again and still have $44M in cap room. (Meanwhile we could have signed Madibuke and Smith for a combined $17M against the cap if we followed Baltimore's contract structure.) You can still go get Chase Young and Jeff Odukah with that. DT is thin enough this year that Hill might be the best available.

Some of you are so gaslit by Katie giving you her mean girl stare you're still buying into the completely laughable narrative that they either don't have the money, or would use it more wisely than getting pretty much the #1 Free Agent in next year's class. Like they'll be willing to open up the pocketbook for some FA worth signing to begin with. Sure we might find an under appreciated gem like Hendrickson, but we've seen a lot more La'el Collins and Sheldon Rankins than your typical insurer would like. But you can pretty much look at the top two FA's at most positions and know that's not who the Bengals are going to get. C'mon. Are you new here?

You think they're going to spend $26M in any way other than passing out some 2 year "prove it" deals to guys like Stone and Rankins?

Get those two cap hits in the $22M combined range with a contract like the Vikes gave Jefferson... You have Tee Higgins signed and $70M in cap space. You can have any FA you want. (With no cuts except Rankins)

https://www.pff.com/news/2025-nfl-free-agency-primer-top-10-free-agents-at-every-position

If we DON'T sign Tee, we still have to use a high draft pick on a receiver... I'd rather keep a younger Tee Higgins and pick up line help in the draft than sign a 30 year old Reddick. BJ Hill is the 3rd best DT available! Is DJ Reed going to break the bank??

Sign them both, make your FA move, and then extend Hendrickson with most of the hit coming in 2025 (roster/workout bonus) to eat up leftover space. This isn't rocket science. It comes down to how good our GM is. Thanks to Katie's responsible cap management, we're in an excellent position. A 28 year old Joe Burrow is the time to f***ing use the cap space.

I wish you were signing the checks for all you mentioned .

Im with you on lot of this.

We'll see if Katy is..

[I_C_Deadpeople]

5 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

I wish you were signing the checks for all you mentioned .

Im with you on lot of this.

We'll see if Katy is..

The stupid thing is - there is literally no risk in signing good players. The revenue is GUARANTEED aevery year. If we signed Trey, Chase and Tee to deals and one of them sufferred a career ending injury, would anyone here bitch? I would not. But I will bitch if they signed Volson to a new deal. You HAVE to pay your best players and fill around that. Every team has different 'best players'. 

[sparky151]

20 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

Chase is not going to o take 36 per..no how no way

He thinks isn't take ng 25 per year.

Their agent might be reasonable to deal with but

he knows their market value and it's going to take that to sign them

My guess would be

Chase....5 yrs..40 per..200 mil....120 guaranteed

Higgins..4 yrs..28 per..112 mil.....65  guaranteed.

I might be low balling them a few mil per.

 

Watch Katy tag them both and milk it.

 

 

Lol. You think Chase would turn down a multi-year deal that makes him the highest paid non-QB in the league in favor of going year by year for 2025-27? Not a chance. 

 

 

[alleycat]

One thing everyone needs to remember about Chase is he sat out his last year of college Football. He knows his value and he knows how to cash in on it. The ONLY discount we get will because he knows how Joe Burrow also elevates his value, and he wants to stay together. The Browns exploit that value at their peril. 

 

The RIGHT WAY to exploit that value is to make sure Burrow, Chase, and Tee are all comfortable with whatever less than very top of the market they decide, and lobby them to think about how any savings can be redistributed to build the proper protection and Defense that cost them their all Universe seasons from even getting them into the playoffs. 

 

You CAN play their competing interest against each other, in a way that makes everyone happy. But that takes a level of transparency and faith that I'm not sure is in this family's DNA. I mean, they talk the talk, but when it comes time to walk the walk, and change their old ways to conform to an NFL that has left them way behind...well, we'll see. But then they really need to buy into the family thing, and instead of banking that money on marginal "our kind of high effort (low difference-making product) like Sam Hubbard and Logan Wilson) guys."

[T-Dub]

20 minutes ago, alleycat said:

 

 

The RIGHT WAY to exploit that value is to make sure Burrow, Chase, and Tee are all comfortable with whatever less than very top of the market they decide, and lobby them to think about how any savings can be redistributed to build the proper protection and Defense that cost them their all Universe seasons from even getting them into the playoffs. 

 

 

 

 

The only way to convince anyone of that is by going out and doing it.  I don't expect anyone to take their word for it.

[sparky151]

34 minutes ago, alleycat said:

One thing everyone needs to remember about Chase is he sat out his last year of college Football. He knows his value and he knows how to cash in on it. The ONLY discount we get will because he knows how Joe Burrow also elevates his value, and he wants to stay together. The Browns exploit that value at their peril. 

 

The RIGHT WAY to exploit that value is to make sure Burrow, Chase, and Tee are all comfortable with whatever less than very top of the market they decide, and lobby them to think about how any savings can be redistributed to build the proper protection and Defense that cost them their all Universe seasons from even getting them into the playoffs. 

 

You CAN play their competing interest against each other, in a way that makes everyone happy. But that takes a level of transparency and faith that I'm not sure is in this family's DNA. I mean, they talk the talk, but when it comes time to walk the walk, and change their old ways to conform to an NFL that has left them way behind...well, we'll see. But then they really need to buy into the family thing, and instead of banking that money on marginal "our kind of high effort (low difference-making product) like Sam Hubbard and Logan Wilson) guys."

 

Paying Chase 36 mil per year isn't him giving a discount. He'd be not only the highest paid player at his position, he'd be the highest paid at any position other than QB. Paying Tee 24 mil might be a discount but he misses a lot of games so he isn't going to get 28 or 30 mil from some team. Spotrac thinks his market value is under 20 mil due to all the games he misses. 

[LostInDaJungle]

54 minutes ago, alleycat said:

One thing everyone needs to remember about Chase is he sat out his last year of college Football. He knows his value and he knows how to cash in on it.

And their agent can do basic math. He knows what they can afford. I don't expect deals for either to be cheap.

I think the biggest sticking point is going to be cash up front, and guaranteed money. The league has changed, and star players are successfully holding out for more and more injury guarantees. This is something the Bengals FO is allergic to. You can't do a "Jefferson Deal" by following the 5% yearly increase and a spread signing bonus formula in Madden 2024.

Arcineaux is going to be negotiating for both guys with an eye toward keeping them together. But he knows the Bengals can afford big deals for both at the same time. It's time to see if Katie has the moxie to make this work.

[claptonrocks]

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

 

Lol. You think Chase would turn down a multi-year deal that makes him the highest paid non-QB in the league in favor of going year by year for 2025-27? Not a chance. 

 

 

They can tag him.

They won't.

5 yrs .40 per 120 Guaranteed.

Teams with Burrow..

[|BlackJesus|]

This team needs to keep Ja'Marr and Tee. 

 

I would offer ... 💰 

Chase - 5 yr,  220 mill,  44 per

Higgins - 4 yr,  110 mill,  27.5 per

 

It seems high, but yesterday's price isn't today's price. This is their punishment for waiting. But you have to do it.

[sparky151]

18 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

They can tag him.

They won't.

5 yrs .40 per 120 Guaranteed.

Teams with Burrow..

 

They'll certainly tag Chase over letting him leave if he won't take their best offer. That puts him on the market in 2028. He's unlikely to be coming off another triple crown season then. 

 

18 hours ago, BlackJesus said:

This team needs to keep Ja'Marr and Tee. 

 

I would offer ... 💰 

Chase - 5 yr,  220 mill,  44 per

Higgins - 4 yr,  110 mill,  27.5 per

 

It seems high, but yesterday's price isn't today's price. This is their punishment for waiting. But you have to do it.

 

Blimey. Nobody is going to pay Ja'Marr or any other receiver 44 mil per year this offseason. He'll get a little more than Jefferson. 

[Cricket]

20 hours ago, BlackJesus said:

This team needs to keep Ja'Marr and Tee. 

 

I would offer ... 💰 

Chase - 5 yr,  220 mill,  44 per

Higgins - 4 yr,  110 mill,  27.5 per

 

It seems high, but yesterday's price isn't today's price. This is their punishment for waiting. But you have to do it.

Has anyone seen Jamar’s agent and Black Jesus at the same time?  🥷

 

 

[dex]

Long article from The Athletic (Paul Dehner) about the Bengals chances of re-signing Tee Higgins:

 

The line has been drawn. Opinions spoken clearly into a microphone.

Joe Burrow wants Tee Higgins back with the Bengals. He believes there’s a way to make it happen. He’s willing to help the cause with a contract restructuring. Keeping the big three together along with Ja’Marr Chase isn’t just a development Burrow hopes to see happen.

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“Tee is a need,” Burrow said in December.

Given opportunities to walk back his thoughts multiple times in the waning weeks of the season, Burrow never did. He doubled and tripled down.

“When you have a guy like that, you just can’t let him get out of the building,” Burrow said.

 

Ja’Marr Chase, Joe Burrow and Tee Higgins served as captains for the final five games of the season, all wins for the Bengals. (Sam Greene / Imagn Images)

When the $275 million franchise quarterback speaks this clearly on a topic, everyone associated with the organization listens. When that quarterback is coming off a year when his MVP-level season wasn’t enough to make the playoffs and when he often embodied the face of frustration with a lack of support on the sideline, they heed his words more than ever.

If only it were so simple.

Taking Burrow’s contract, with a cap hit that rises to $46 million next year, then adding in an expected megadeal with receiving triple-crown winner Chase that will likely become the largest for any non-quarterback in league history will be a huge expense. Then finding a way to wedge in a deal for Higgins near the top of the free-agent market, all while fixing a defense that ranked among the worst in the league and an interior offensive line that fell apart isn’t as simple as signing a few checks.

“It’s possible,” Chase said earlier this year about the big three staying together long-term. “It’s 100 percent possible. Got to play chess in that situation, but it’s possible.”

Possible was the word Chase used then. The word you hear most often in the aftermath of the Bengals missing the playoffs is a different one: Hopeful.

“I’m very hopeful that that’ll work out to where we are able to get him back,” head coach Zac Taylor said Monday. “But there’s certainly a process we’re going to have to undergo with a lot of players on our team, and I can promise you, we’ll be in unison with whatever those decisions are, and that’s a process we’ll start now through the month of January and February, and talking through every player on a roster and how it all fits.”

Burrow used “hopeful,” as well, on Saturday night. Hope and optimism surround the Higgins situation as he enters free agency. At the very least, that’s a stark contrast from feelings that existed a year ago. The Bengals never really negotiated with Higgins and quickly slapped the franchise tag on him in February. They balked at a trade request and it was clear they would make him play the season on the $21.8 million tag. He seemed destined to walk into free agency at the end of the year.

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This season changed many of the foundational aspects of that endgame.

One, the draft pick of Jermaine Burton in the third round blew up in their face and left them without a young, reliable option capable of assuming a portion of Higgins’ role. Andrei Iosivas grew dramatically in his second season but doesn’t bring nearly the same level of playmaking as Higgins. He looks destined to be a solid if ascending No. 3 receiver in this offense.

Two, any players who would demand large contract extensions in the future fell off. Most notably, 2022 second-round pick Cam Taylor-Britt regressed, and no members of the free-agent class emerged to deserve a significant raise with no big-money extensions expected. In the same vein, many veterans with large contracts also disappointed (Sheldon Rankins, Sam Hubbard, Alex Cappa, Germaine Pratt), leaving open the possibility for a series of cuts that could free up $30 million or more in 2025 cap space.

Three, Higgins put together his best season at the perfect time. His 75.9 receiving yards per game ranked ninth in the NFL. He only dropped two passes on 104 targets, posting a top-10 catch percentage among qualified receivers. He forced 16 missed tackles this year, a career high and more than the previous two seasons combined.

 

The only issue was the same one which followed his career.

It was another season when Higgins battled nagging injuries to stay on the field. He logged 636 offensive snaps (56 percent), missing time due to ankle, quad and hamstring issues. He expressed interest in getting a deeper study done on the root of his recurring lower extremity issues, as Green Bay’s Christian Watson did last offseason.

Over the last four seasons, Higgins failed to cross 760 snaps in a single year and has taken just 54 percent of the team’s offensive snaps over the last two seasons. He tweaked his hamstring on the Thursday before the opener against the Patriots, a game where the offense sputtered in a 16-10 defeat. A practice injury forced him out of three more games midseason. The Bengals were 1-4 without him.

The difference offensively with and without Higgins on the field has always been notable, but not overwhelming statistically prior to 2024. Yet, as the Bengals’ offense evolved this season, the splits without Higgins were cavernous.

2024: Pass plays with/without Higgins

Stat	With Higgins	Without
Plays	430	270
EPA/play	0.21	0.01
Yards/play	7.3	5.6
Success%	56.3%	47.4%
Yards/attempt	8.2	6.5
Passer rating	113.7	100.3
3rd down%	42.2%	44.4%

All of this backs up Burrow’s contention that Higgins is a need.

“We came in together and we’ve built this thing from the ground up,” Burrow said Saturday. “Tee is a great player and a guy that does everything the right way and works really hard for it.”

He continued, “He’s a one-of-a-kind person, one-of-a-kind player, and one that we really count on and is an integral part of what we do around here.”

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Burrow, Higgins and Chase were trotted out as game captains for each of the final five games of the season, all victories. Higgins capped off the home season with a dominant 11-reception, 131-yard, three-touchdown exclamation point against Denver. All while playing through ankle and knee injuries.

“He is a warrior,” Taylor said at the time.

His value has never been higher.

Higgins switching his agent from David Mulugheta to Rocky Arceneaux (Chase’s agent) boosted the chance he could stay in Cincinnati, but it ultimately guarantees nothing. The Bengals could use the franchise tag on Higgins again, but that would almost certainly be part of a tag-and-trade scenario. Making him play another year on the tag doesn’t sound like a legitimate option for either side. Higgins will likely fetch in the $25 to $30 million per year range on the open market, perhaps more if a free-agent bidding war unfolds. So it will be up to the Bengals to find a number close enough to his worth to warrant consideration playing the prime of his career catching passes from an MVP-caliber quarterback, alongside Chase and to front one of the great passing attacks in football.

Going to somewhere like Pittsburgh, New England or Tennessee might come with more guaranteed money but includes the risk of irrelevancy and not collecting the entirety of the contract he signs. It’s hard to see that being the case in Cincinnati.

“Everyone, of course, wants him here,” Iosivas said. “We had a great offense this year. That was a credit to him being a great player. I want him to do what’s best for himself. You want to be selfish sometimes, of course, for him he wants to be selfish and make the most money, but is it better to keep this offense going or for him to do his own thing? That’s something he is going to have to pray on or think about a lot.”

Higgins has largely stayed out of the fray as everyone talks about his situation. A significant part of the reason he signed the franchise tag immediately after mandatory minicamp and announced he would show up for the beginning of training camp was to avoid the drama. He did so until the end this year.

“I’m tired of seeing my name speculating on the internet,” Higgins said. “It’s a good thing at the end of the day because it’s always a good thing if somebody wants you, but definitely looking forward to the day I stop getting these questions.”

 

Tee Higgins will be in high demand if he hits the free-agent market this offseason. (Nick Cammett / Getty Images)

There’s urgency on both sides to move quickly as the franchise tag deadline and the first day of free agency loom in March. The Bengals will see if they can make the numbers work with Higgins before the new league year all the while working on the connected contract with Chase and a potential Burrow restructuring.

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Paying both receivers would put the Bengals in a class with the Dolphins (Jaylen Waddle, Tyreek Hill) and Eagles (A.J. Brown, DeVonta Smith) employing two receivers making at least $25 million per season while paying top quarterback money.

The Bengals are in a solid financial position. They enter the year 11th in 2025 cap room before making any space-clearing moves. They rank third in available cap space on the 2026 balance sheet.

Avoiding more drama with Chase, who held in from training camp, and Higgins would go a long way to setting a championship tone for 2025. The pressure falls squarely on the Bengals to remove any drama since by not signing the two stars earlier, all the leverage has shifted to the other side of the table. One that now also includes Burrow with his expectations of management clear as can be.

The probability Higgins returns feels as much like a 50-50 coin flip as any decision. Those close to the conversations have had a hard time producing any tangible percentages or definitive statements. For now, there’s a mixture of hope and reality with an understanding the truth will emerge as negotiations proceed in the coming weeks and months.

[I_C_Deadpeople]

Chase said it best - you have to play Chess ; but this team has traditionally played checkers with the cap. 
There lots of cap space if the used the cap like others do. Does not KC re-do Mahomes contract every year? Pitt used to do it with the Jen and it never hurt them in the long run. 
FO needs to get their heads out of their asses in cap management.