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MichaelWeston

Who would you draft?

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It's looking like the roster will look like the below. If it was the case how would you draft to fill out the roster?

QB Dalton 2020 McCarron 2017 Driskel 2019
RB Bernard 2019 Hill 2017 Carson 2017
FB Hewitt 2019    
WR Green 2019 Core 2019 Russell 2018
WR LaFell 2018 Wright 2017 Brown 2018
WR Boyd 2019 Erickson 2018 Kumerow 2018
TE Eifert 2017 Kroft 2018 Uzomah 2018
LT Ogbouehi 2018    
LG Boling 2019 Redmond 2018  
C Bodine 2017 Johnson 2017  
RG Westerman 2019 Hopkins 2017  
RT Fisher 2018 Andre Smith Winston 2017
       
K Bullock 2018 Brown 2017  
P Huber 2017    
LS Harris 2017    
       
LE Dunlap 2018 Clarke 2017 Brown 2018
LT Billings 2019 Sims 2017 Dean 2018
RT Atkins 2018 Williams 2017 Thompson 2017
RE Johnson 2018 Connor Barwin Hardison 2018
SLB Vigil 2019 Dawson 2018 Albright 2018
MLB Keenan Robinson Maualuga 2017  
WLB Burfict 2017 Rey 2018 Flowers 2017
S Williams 2020 Smith 2018  
S Iloka 2020 Fejedelem 2019  
CB Jones 2018 Dennard 2017 Benwikere 2017
CB Kirkpatrick 2021 Jackson 2020 McRae 2018
CB Shaw 2018 Russell 2019  

 

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FWIW the most glaring hole here is LT. I would really consider King Dunlap on experience alone. 

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10 hours ago, MichaelWeston said:

FWIW the most glaring hole here is LT. I would really consider King Dunlap on experience alone. 

We desperately need a veteran LT, there is no way this team can go into the season with Ogbuehi as the lone veteran LT on the roster. I just don't understand why they are putting so much faith in this guy after what he showed last year. I understand he's athletic and all of that stuff, but can he play the game of football at a high level?

As for Dunlap, I dunno. He''s a lumbering guy that struggles to get win the leverage battle because of his height. Also he was recently arrested for a domestic dispute after violating a protective order, not the character type I would like to add in replace of Whit.

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9 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

 

We desperately need a veteran LT, there is no way this team can go into the season with Ogbuehi as the lone veteran LT on the market. I just don't understand why they are putting so much faith in this guy after what he showed last year. I understand he's athletic and all of that stuff, but can he play the game of football at a high level?

As for Dunlap, I dunno. He''s a lumbering guy that struggles to get win the leverage battle because of his height. Also he was recently arrested for a domestic dispute after violating a protective order, not the character type I would like to add in replace of Whit.

Don't disagree. There is literally no one else at this point. 

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QB looks good.

Well there are about a billion RBs on the market right now, so I'd be shocked if we didn't pick somebody up off the streets and also take a mid to late round RB as well. I think a lot depends on the projected health of Gio though.

We're fine at WR. I know some people seem to think we should be going 6 deep with great players but that doesn't make much sense. We have 3 capable WRs, some young guys to develop behind them, and that's not even to mention how we utilize our RBs and TEs in the pass game which negates the need for our 4th/5th WR to be on the field much.

K/P/LS, that's fine.

The defense as a whole looks good. I'm not sure how accurate your assessment that Barwin and Robinson are both going to be here in 2017 is, but that would be great. Robinson would give us our first GOOD coverage backer in quite some time. Barwin would be more than solid as well. I'd love to see that. I know Robinson didn't have a high PFF grade overall last year, but I think he absolutely played better than they gave him credit for, he looked solid (at the very least) most of the time. Barwin struggled when switching to the 4-3, but I still think he has the ability to be a good rotational end for us even if he fits the 3-4 better. I'd really like one of the top LBs in the draft to put say, Foster/Burfict/Robinson on the field all together. Or Reddick/Burfict/Robinson could be an interesting package as well.

The o-line and TEs scare me. We don't really know what to make of the line because we haven't seen some of the projected starters play much, if at all. Is Westerman really our starting RG? Can he perform at the NFL level? Can we turn Ogbuehi and Fisher into more balanced linemen from the "athletic but not so powerful" type of blockers they are? Do we change up our entire offense based on the style of the o-linemen we've drafted lately instead? We run the ball too much and don't pass it enough without big, road graders paving the way. Why the fuck don't we change the offensive philosophy and let our athletic, zone blocking linemen do what they're actually good at? Ogbuehi isn't going to magically transform into a different player, Fisher is who he is at this point too, how about we alter the offense to them instead of the other way around? I wouldn't mind seeing that in 2017. Hopefully that's what the coaching staff has planned after letting Whit and Z both walk. Maybe they're onto something? I still think letting BOTH go is a bad idea, but I'm softening up to the potential of a changed scheme so I'll try to minimize my bitching until we see if that guess is right or not.

Ya know, I've been really, really, really, really against drafting another TE highly, but after talking this out and thinking about it, I believe I'd actually be OK with it. It's the one position where I feel we have no real depth at all (well, the o-line has weak depth now too) and our starter is made of glass. I felt the same about RB lately too, I was highly against it at first, but I wouldn't hate the FO for taking the top RB on their board if they really want to, I just don't think we need the best RB in the draft class if we're shifting to a different style of offense with these new linemen.

R1 - LB, TE, DE, RB, S (ONLY if Hooker drops)

R2 - OT, G, C, DE, LB

R3 - G, OT, WR, DE

R4 - RB, OT, TE, WR, CB

Any of the positions I have listed more than once aren't meant for us to double dip, but saying IF we don't take a LB in round 1 as a high priority, I think we should grab one in round 2 but round 2 isn't a huge priority because of who is expected to be there compared to R1. So that's essentially what my ordering for the positions is meant to mean, if LB is taken R1, take LB off the list for the other rounds listed.

I don't want to go o-line in R1 unless we trade down. I don't want WR in the top 2 rounds, we don't have a need there where we have holes to fill elsewhere. I either want the absolute best TE in the draft or else just wait and get one mid-late. Same thought process with RB, I want the best or else pass or get a proven UFA since the market is loaded. Good o-line prospects are littered through the 2nd-3rd. Quality WR/CB prospects look to be there mid-late as well. I don't care about drafting a safety whatsoever in the top 4 rounds unless Hooker is there at 9, then you just have to take him. DE is the most debated position as of who should be taken above who it seems, so I guess I'll just trust the team if they select one of those guys. I'd REALLY love to see some immediate impact starters in R1-R2 this year though, let's cut out the project player with high picks bullshit and hope to avoid the injury bug.

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The more I think about it, the more I think we'll trade down to try and "sure up" some lines in regards to losses. If it's me I take Foster and build through the LB core.

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1 hour ago, PatternMaster said:

 

We desperately need a veteran LT, there is no way this team can go into the season with Ogbuehi as the lone veteran LT on the market. I just don't understand why they are putting so much faith in this guy after what he showed last year. I understand he's athletic and all of that stuff, but can he play the game of football at a high level?

As for Dunlap, I dunno. He''s a lumbering guy that struggles to get win the leverage battle because of his height. Also he was recently arrested for a domestic dispute after violating a protective order, not the character type I would like to add in replace of Whit.

Still think Fisher is basically our second string LT (in addition to starting on the right side). If Ogbuehi fails, they can move Fisher over there and have Andre Smith or whoever step in as the starting RT. 

Not necessarily a great option, but seems like our best bet when looking at the weak draft and FA class. 

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Hi all,

new to the boards but I got to start somewhere. I think our best option is trading down unless someone slips to us (thomas,allen). we can trade down to the 13-20 range and grab someone who makes more sense there like (reddick, Barnett, Ramcyzk, Howard, or even Foster.). If it was my choice I would pick Barnett- the guy can just flat out play football, and we can rotate him in easily if we sign someone like Barwin. 

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My draft, assuming these signings:

1- Best DE/pass rusher available. I am warming up to TJ Watt at 9. He just destroyed the combine and I think when people look at that combined with his intangibles and 11.5 sacks last year despite just moving to defense in 2015, he's going to be a late riser. If not Watt, then Derek Barnett also makes sense. 

2. Best OL available. Should be able to get a guy with some positional versatility so they can just go into camp and compete and then start the best 5 linemen in whatever formation. Cam Robinson, Dan Feeney, Taylor Moton, Pat Elflein or somebody like that. Think round 2 could be where we get our starting RG.

3. MLB or WR. Not sure Robinson is a true MLB (more of an OLB/nickel guy) and it would be nice to upgrade from Maualuga. Don't know if Raekwon McMillan will fall this far, but I'd love to have a guy like him. Would also consider one of the 4.4 WRs here (Chris Godwin, Carlos Henderson, Zay Jones). 

4. WR/MLB and RB. You can find complementary receivers, run stopping MLBs and backs in the mid-rounds. 

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1 minute ago, TorontoStripes said:

Hi all,

new to the boards but I got to start somewhere. I think our best option is trading down unless someone slips to us (thomas,allen). we can trade down to the 13-20 range and grab someone who makes more sense there like (reddick, Barnett, Ramcyzk, Howard, or even Foster.). If it was my choice I would pick Barnett- the guy can just flat out play football, and we can rotate him in easily if we sign someone like Barwin. 

Welcome!

Agree it would be a great draft to trade down. Those 2nd and 3rd rounders are super valuable this year and after the top 5 or so, nobody really stands out. Unfortunately, might not be much of a market for teams looking to trade up.

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24 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

QB looks good.

Well there are about a billion RBs on the market right now, so I'd be shocked if we didn't pick somebody up off the streets and also take a mid to late round RB as well. I think a lot depends on the projected health of Gio though.

We're fine at WR. I know some people seem to think we should be going 6 deep with great players but that doesn't make much sense. We have 3 capable WRs, some young guys to develop behind them, and that's not even to mention how we utilize our RBs and TEs in the pass game which negates the need for our 4th/5th WR to be on the field much.

K/P/LS, that's fine.

The defense as a whole looks good. I'm not sure how accurate your assessment that Barwin and Robinson are both going to be here in 2017 is, but that would be great. Robinson would give us our first GOOD coverage backer in quite some time. Barwin would be more than solid as well. I'd love to see that. I know Robinson didn't have a high PFF grade overall last year, but I think he absolutely played better than they gave him credit for, he looked solid (at the very least) most of the time. Barwin struggled when switching to the 4-3, but I still think he has the ability to be a good rotational end for us even if he fits the 3-4 better. I'd really like one of the top LBs in the draft to put say, Foster/Burfict/Robinson on the field all together. Or Reddick/Burfict/Robinson could be an interesting package as well.

The o-line and TEs scare me. We don't really know what to make of the line because we haven't seen some of the projected starters play much, if at all. Is Westerman really our starting RG? Can he perform at the NFL level? Can we turn Ogbuehi and Fisher into more balanced linemen from the "athletic but not so powerful" type of blockers they are? Do we change up our entire offense based on the style of the o-linemen we've drafted lately instead? We run the ball too much and don't pass it enough without big, road graders paving the way. Why the fuck don't we change the offensive philosophy and let our athletic, zone blocking linemen do what they're actually good at? Ogbuehi isn't going to magically transform into a different player, Fisher is who he is at this point too, how about we alter the offense to them instead of the other way around? I wouldn't mind seeing that in 2017. Hopefully that's what the coaching staff has planned after letting Whit and Z both walk. Maybe they're onto something? I still think letting BOTH go is a bad idea, but I'm softening up to the potential of a changed scheme so I'll try to minimize my bitching until we see if that guess is right or not.

Ya know, I've been really, really, really, really against drafting another TE highly, but after talking this out and thinking about it, I believe I'd actually be OK with it. It's the one position where I feel we have no real depth at all (well, the o-line has weak depth now too) and our starter is made of glass. I felt the same about RB lately too, I was highly against it at first, but I wouldn't hate the FO for taking the top RB on their board if they really want to, I just don't think we need the best RB in the draft class if we're shifting to a different style of offense with these new linemen.

R1 - LB, TE, DE, RB, S (ONLY if Hooker drops)

R2 - OT, G, C, DE, LB

R3 - G, OT, WR, DE

R4 - RB, OT, TE, WR, CB

Any of the positions I have listed more than once aren't meant for us to double dip, but saying IF we don't take a LB in round 1 as a high priority, I think we should grab one in round 2 but round 2 isn't a huge priority because of who is expected to be there compared to R1. So that's essentially what my ordering for the positions is meant to mean, if LB is taken R1, take LB off the list for the other rounds listed.

I don't want to go o-line in R1 unless we trade down. I don't want WR in the top 2 rounds, we don't have a need there where we have holes to fill elsewhere. I either want the absolute best TE in the draft or else just wait and get one mid-late. Same thought process with RB, I want the best or else pass or get a proven UFA since the market is loaded. Good o-line prospects are littered through the 2nd-3rd. Quality WR/CB prospects look to be there mid-late as well. I don't care about drafting a safety whatsoever in the top 4 rounds unless Hooker is there at 9, then you just have to take him. DE is the most debated position as of who should be taken above who it seems, so I guess I'll just trust the team if they select one of those guys. I'd REALLY love to see some immediate impact starters in R1-R2 this year though, let's cut out the project player with high picks bullshit and hope to avoid the injury bug.

I think we almost have to go OL in round 2 unless we trade down from #9. Hopefully Dion Dawkins, Forrest Lamp, or Dan Feeney are available in the second round; but after the way Fischer and Ogbuehi played I'm a little hesitant to rely on rookies to solidify the offensive line. There is not much available in FA in the offensive line, I would love to see a trade or something creative to get a few quality veterans to replace the two that left via FA. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, TorontoStripes said:

Hi all,

new to the boards but I got to start somewhere. I think our best option is trading down unless someone slips to us (thomas,allen). we can trade down to the 13-20 range and grab someone who makes more sense there like (reddick, Barnett, Ramcyzk, Howard, or even Foster.). If it was my choice I would pick Barnett- the guy can just flat out play football, and we can rotate him in easily if we sign someone like Barwin. 

I'm a big Barnett fan as well, I agree with you as well that trading down would be ideal but if there are no takers I would happy taking him at #9.

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1 minute ago, PatternMaster said:

I think we almost have to go OL in round 2 unless we trade down from #9. Hopefully Dion Dawkins, Forrest Lamp, or Dan Feeney are available in the second round; but after the way Fischer and Ogbuehi played I'm a little hesitant to rely on rookies to solidify the offensive line. There is not much available in FA in the offensive line, I would love to see a trade or something creative to get a few quality veterans to replace the two that left via FA. 

 

 

Yeah I'm going to be pretty upset if there's no OL at all taken in the 2nd. The only way it would make sense to go a different route would be if we traded down in the 1st and addressed the line there instead. It looks like the 2nd round is packed full of quality OL prospects.

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1 minute ago, omgdrdoom said:

Yeah I'm going to be pretty upset if there's no OL at all taken in the 2nd. The only way it would make sense to go a different route would be if we traded down in the 1st and addressed the line there instead. It looks like the 2nd round is packed full of quality OL prospects.

Taylor Moton, Dorian Johnson, and Isaac Asiata are also some options for round 2, there is some good options for this interior OL in the 2nd and 3rd round of the draft. However, what type of learning curve will they have, are they plug and play types?

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I'd still draft Reddick. Burfict is playing in a contract year, Vigil is an unknown and even if we sign Robinson he's nothing more than another Vinny Rey.

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49 minutes ago, happyrid said:

Still think Fisher is basically our second string LT (in addition to starting on the right side). If Ogbuehi fails, they can move Fisher over there and have Andre Smith or whoever step in as the starting RT. 

Not necessarily a great option, but seems like our best bet when looking at the weak draft and FA class. 

I'm not sure about Smith, are the Bengals even considering him in FA or is that conjecture?

The draft is pretty bad for OT's and the FA is even worse. I've heard from many NFL analyst that this is going to be the norm going forward because in college most teams are using the spread offense and the OT's aren't asked to play like they would in the NFL, see Cedric Ogbuehi for an perfect example. The teams with a great OL coach that can take these guys and teach them how to pass protect in in a pro-style offense are going to be able to have a distinct advantage vs. the teams that don't have that guy on staff.

Whether we like it or not, Paul Alexander is going to be the most critical guy in the Bengals organization this season, his ability to get the most out of these young guys that don't have the technique and experience that is needed is going to be key.

alexander-at-piano.png

The success of the Bengals is in his hands!!!!

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3 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

I'm not sure about Smith, are the Bengals even considering him in FA or is that conjecture?

The draft is pretty bad for OT's and the FA is even worse. I've heard from many NFL analyst that this is going to be the norm going forward because in college most teams are using the spread offense and the OT's aren't asked to play like they would in the NFL, see Cedric Ogbuehi for an perfect example. The teams with a great OL coach that can take these guys and teach them how to pass protect in in a pro-style offense are going to be able to have a distinct advantage vs. the teams that don't have that guy on staff.

Whether we like it or not, Paul Alexander is going to be the most critical guy in the Bengals organization this season, his ability to get the most out of these young guys that don't have the technique and experience that is needed is going to be key.

alexander-at-piano.png

The success of the Bengals is in his hands!!!!

Yeah Smith came in for a vist a day or 2 ago

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/13/bengals-andre-smith-talk-reunion/

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You have to take Reuben Foster, if he is there in the first.

Our LB core must get stronger.

OL or DE must be picked in the second. Preferably the best rated T still on the board.

RB or DE in the 3rd. From the looks of it, this pick will probably be Mixon.

 

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1 hour ago, happyrid said:

Still think Fisher is basically our second string LT (in addition to starting on the right side). If Ogbuehi fails, they can move Fisher over there and have Andre Smith or whoever step in as the starting RT. 

Not necessarily a great option, but seems like our best bet when looking at the weak draft and FA class. 

Have not thought about this until now but I could see Fisher as LT2 or Dennis Roland. Gosh I hated that offense. 

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The problem with taking a LB that high is that we only really start 2. If you resign Burfict and Vigil hits you have your 2. No need to reach for a Project in Reddick or a guy with red flags like Foster when you only need 2 and you may already have them. 

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Hard to say "who I would draft".  Tell me who the first 8 picks are though and I'd have a pretty good idea.

Of the guys that might be there Hooker is the top of my list.  Fournette would be an option too, I just don't think the Panthers pass on him.

Of the guys that should be there, Foster, Barnett and Reddick are probably my preferences.

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Dan Feeney or GTFO in Round 2. Great plug and play natural RG. 

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1 hour ago, MichaelWeston said:

The problem with taking a LB that high is that we only really start 2. If you resign Burfict and Vigil hits you have your 2. No need to reach for a Project in Reddick or a guy with red flags like Foster when you only need 2 and you may already have them. 

I see this a lot on this message board specifically, so I'm going to address it as it seems to be something people heard and run with. Yes, 2 LBs "start" the game, but shouldn't snap counts be a bigger factor than "starting" or not? Here is a stretch of games later in the season with our LBs healthy with the exception of Rey Maualuga being unavailable in the first game. These counts are percentages BTW, defensive snap count % not including their special teams counts:

Dansby 76.9, Burfict 87.7, V Rey 70.8, Maualuga 0, Vigil 16.9

Dansby 61.8, Burfict 98.5, V Rey 36.8, Maualuga 27.9, Vigil 2.9

Dansby 73.8, Burfict 90, V Rey 28.8, Maualuga 11.3, Vigil 7.5

Dansby 75.9, Burfict 100, V Rey 20.4, Maualuga 37, Vigil 9.3

Dansby 92, Burfict 81.3, V Rey 9.3 Maualuga 41.3, Vigil 24

Looking at those percentages, it looks like we have 3 LBs on the field a lot more often than some people around here claim. I see the whole "we only use 2 LB!" thing a lot, and I understand it is definitely the case for the most part in certain games, but we use 3 LBs quite a bit too. Just look at the last week where Dansby played 92%, Burfict 81%, and Maualuga, Vigil, and V Rey still managed to count for a total of 75%. If you take 8% of Rey, Rey, and Vigils snap counts and add them to Dansby to give him 100% and 19 to Burfict to give him 100%, you still end up with a 3rd LB on the field for about 50% of the game. The first game in my examples you have a 3rd LB on the field for an average of over 50% of the defensive snaps. A couple of the examples do show a lower percentage for average amount of time you'd likely find 3 LB on the field together, but it's more often than some people tend to believe.

Dansby is gone, Maualuga is expendable, so I don't see any reason to avoid drafting a LB highly even if we end up with Keenan Robinson. We absolutely "need" more than 2 capable LBs on this team. An average of about 1.3 - 1.5 downs per 3 we have a 3rd LB on the field, and Burfict is really our only 3 down LB anyway, we tend to rotate the others.

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If by some miracle Malik Hooker is there I run to the podium.

 

Call me crazy but this D missed Reggie Nelson big time last year and Hooker gets comparisons to Nelson.

 

Although he wont be there when we pick imo, but if he was....

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57 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

If by some miracle Malik Hooker is there I run to the podium.

 

Call me crazy but this D missed Reggie Nelson big time last year and Hooker gets comparisons to Nelson.

 

Although he wont be there when we pick imo, but if he was....

I've not seen Hooker compared to Nelson. I've seen a lot compare him to Ed Reed though.  

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