THE MOST ACCURATE AND REALISTIC COMMENTARY ABOUT MIKE VICK

[Ben]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='523724' date='Aug 8 2007, 05:24 PM']Kobe Bryant had one person accuse him of a one time event.

Michael Vick is accused of operating an organized crime ring,
that breed, fought, gambled, tortured and killed dogs.
The case against Vick was years in the making. There is
a lot of damaging evidence against him.

The media only jumped on Vick after the Feds started making
their case public, and started releasing more and more details.
If Vick was accused of commiting the same crimes against
Humans, that he is accused of commiting against animals,
he wouldn`t be seeing the light of day right now. [b]He`d
be in jail awaiting trail. Not in his mansion awaiting trail.[/b][/quote]

[MULLY]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='523713' date='Aug 9 2007, 06:11 AM']BUT, there is nothing wrong with the sponsors pulling out from under Vick...theirs is an image-oriented business, and Vick isn't representative of that in THEIR opinion, and it is THEIR right under the contract they signed with Vick that they can choose to terminate their relationship with Vick for ANY reason.[/quote]

I won't argue that it's their right to drop him. Of course it is. Hell, if it was my company I surely wouldn't want that as my image. The point of the matter is, though, that Vick was dropped when the news broke. He wasn't given his day in court. Kobe's shit went on for months before it was dropped and Nike didn't bat an eye. It's the hypocrisy of the whole thing.

[quote]There is also nothing wrong with the media running this story...ALL the media outlets are saying the same thing "Alleged" or "If convickted"....that's their job, that's what they do.[/quote]

Yeah, but you know as well as I do that in the American media, regardless of how you word it, you're guilty until proven innocent.....and even then you're still not innocent. Vicks career is over. And hey, his career probably should be over, I won't argue that, it's just the hypocrisy of it that bothers me.

[quote]As far as your statement goes about people "sweeping crimes against humanity under the rug because we are a numbed society", I don't buy that either. Myself, my family nor anyone I know believes as you apparently do.

And, LOL at your Los Angeles reference....and the curtains!
[/quote]

Sure you do. How much thought or how namy tears do you shed reading the paper each day? Face it, we're numb to it. Whether you want to admit it or not. Headline: "Bus load of children goes over cliff in a fiery ball" Public Reaction: 2 days of news coverage, everyone talking about it at work, let's get some donuts. 6 months later: "What? Oh yeah, I remember that. That was sad. Where are the donuts?"

That fucking bridge collapse gets less coverage than Michael Vick.
MULLY
Yeah, that LA thing is pretty sweet........and spot on to.

[WhoDeyThink]

[quote name='Fulcher_33' post='523720' date='Aug 8 2007, 05:18 PM']It was a while before they found the 3 different strains of jizz in her panties. Until that time it was pretty much signed, sealed, and delivered that Kobe was a rapist. [b]Why didn't Nike drop him when he was fist accused like they're doing with Vick?[/b] That's the entire point of this thread. Michael Vick has been accused, not convicted, [b]accused[/b] of a crime. A crime that shouldn't rank up there with raping another human being, but he's being treated like he's the second coming of Hitler and that farm in Virginia is a reincarnation of Auschwitz. Sad state of affairs we have here. Don't get me wrong. I love animals and if he's found guilty then I'd like to be the one to kick him in his nuts for it. But this whole Nike thing is a fucking joke and a half. It's not balanced. Be accused of killing some dogs and your sponsorship is out the door. Be accused of raping someone or vehicular manslaughter from DUI and it's "Let's see how this plays out first." Do you not see the hypocrisy of that?

Face it, this isn't Nike's high moral standards in play here. It all comes down to the tree hugging PETA people picketing outside the home office. They have enough money and a big enough voice for them (NIKE) to take a hit in the pocketbook. That's all it is. They're just trying to save face. Fucking company pays kids cents a day to slave over making their shoes yet Michael Vick is the anti-Christ for being involved with dog fighting. Fucking shit happens every day all around the world yet they choose to crucify Michael Vick for it because he's a face that everyone knows.
MULLY[/quote]
Look I get it. Its is very hypocritical. Yet I don't feel bad for him at all. He is just as guilty in my mind as Kobe was then. But I'm just a dick.

Honestly I think Nike has been looking for a reason ever sense he gave the finger to women and childeren at the home field.


As far as it "going on everyday" .... I can only say... I dont know about that. I mean I've heard of dog fighting, but never seen it before. I have heard of drunk driving also, and seen that with my own eyes. Along with many other things. Its just wierd to me. I guess you can take a man out of the ghetto but you cant take the ghetto out of the man.
WDT

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Fulcher_33' post='523728' date='Aug 8 2007, 03:29 PM']I won't argue that it's their right to drop him. Of course it is. Hell, if it was my company I surely wouldn't want that as my image. The point of the matter is, though, that Vick was dropped when the news broke. He wasn't given his day in court. Kobe's shit went on for months before it was dropped and Nike didn't bat an eye. It's the hypocrisy of the whole thing.
Yeah, but you know as well as I do that in the American media, regardless of how you word it, you're guilty until proven innocent.....and even then you're still not innocent. Vicks career is over. And hey, his career probably should be over, I won't argue that, it's just the hypocrisy of it that bothers me.
Sure you do. How much thought or how namy tears do you shed reading the paper each day? Face it, we're numb to it. Whether you want to admit it or not. Headline: "Bus load of children goes over cliff in a fiery ball" Public Reaction: 2 days of news coverage, everyone talking about it at work, let's get some donuts. 6 months later: "What? Oh yeah, I remember that. That was sad. Where are the donuts?"

That fucking bridge collapse gets less coverage than Michael Vick.
MULLY
Yeah, that LA thing is pretty sweet........and spot on to.[/quote]
The reason that people tend to gloss over or forget such deadly events isn't because they are happening more often necessarily, it's that media outlets CAN and WILL report anything they deem newsworthy to keep their ratings up, and blood sells ratings, which in turn is fodder for the advertising machine that keeps TV stations awash in money.
So if it SEEMS like it is happening ALL THE TIME, then the human reaction is "well that sucks for them".
But I really don't feel that way when horrorific crimes are committed (especially against children) or a spectacular disaster claims multiple lives....
I honestly put myself in their shoes as much as I can, because I dislike human suffering, especially when it's purposely inflicted on someone.

[MULLY]

[quote name='WhoDeyThink' post='523729' date='Aug 9 2007, 06:31 AM']Look I get it. Its is very hypocritical. Yet I don't feel bad for him at all. He is just as guilty in my mind as Kobe was then. But I'm just a dick.

Honestly I think Nike has been looking for a reason ever sense he gave the finger to women and childeren at the home field.
As far as it "going on everyday" .... I can only say... I dont know about that. I mean I've heard of dog fighting, but never seen it before. I have heard of drunk driving also, and seen that with my own eyes. Along with many other things. Its just wierd to me. I guess you can take a man out of the ghetto but you cant take the ghetto out of the man.
WDT[/quote]


I don't feel bad for him either, FWIW. Fuck him. Doing something like that to an animal? He should be shot. I'm on the right side of this. I just laugh at the hypocrisy of Nike dropping him but supporting Kobe. It's strange to me. If I was the head of any organization you can bet your sweet ass that Kobe, Vick, Henry etc... wouldn't be getting paid from me. Even if Kobe's case was dropped the accusation was still there and with that an image follows. There will always be that little twinge of doubt in people's minds. Especially with all the criminal activity that takes place in pro sports, how can you believe 100% that he didn't do it? You can't. One bad apple spoils the bunch and there are [b]a lot [/b]of bad apples in pro sports.
MULLY

[Masher Snake]

So you people really don't believe it's a major news story when a top 10 jersey selling player gets Federally indicted for masterminding a dogfighting ring? It's NEVER happened before, just like OJ was the most famous person EVER to go on trial for murder. It would be totally irresponsible for the media not to cover it.

Of course I agree that the coverage is overblown, but you can say the same thing for TO, Bonds, the Red Sox, Laci Peterson, Terry Schiavo, Elian Gonzalez, Abu Garib, Natalie Holloway, etc, etc... that's what the media does. This isn't anything new.

Kobe was a totally different situation, as many have mentioned, because of the credibility of the person making the accusation, as well as Kobe's mostly pristine image prior to the incident. Not to mention it was a single incident versus a years of living a life of crime illegal behavior like Vick is being accused of.

Crying injustice here only de-legitimizes the many true injustices being perpetrated throughout the world. This guy's not worth hitching your star to.

[whodey319]

Mully your are wrong about kobe, he did lose endorsements because of that case.

Nutella and McDonalds were 2 that got cancelled i could find right away and nike put his contract on hold until the case was over

[steggyD]

Also, only if you're looking and watching Sports News is the Vick case larger than the bridge collapse. At least that's how I saw it for about a week, especially up here in New York, where almost every single person commutes and crosses at least one major bridge a day.

[MULLY]

[quote name='steggyD' post='523751' date='Aug 9 2007, 08:06 AM']Also, only if you're looking and watching Sports News is the Vick case larger than the bridge collapse. At least that's how I saw it for about a week, especially up here in New York, where almost every single person commutes and crosses at least one major bridge a day.[/quote]


Give it a few more days. The bridge collapse will be old news and Vick will still be making headlines.
MULLY

[Harmening]

It's becuase they're cleaning up the bridge collapse scene. We will here about other bad bridges for some time.

[steggyD]

Well, yeah, give it a few days. The bridge collapse is not continuous. There will be stories here and there speculating as to who's to blame and why it happened, but we know that it collapsed, the end.

Vick is an ongoing story, as we don't know the end yet. Does he go to jail? Does he play in the NFL again? It's a mystery and people love mysteries.

No one made Vick fight dogs and kill dogs. We are not to blame for his mishaps. But now he has given the people a story to follow, and follow, the people will do.

It's not that hard to understand. And I hear news stories every day about children being hurt, neglected, murdered. I don't think we're really numb to it and overlook it, it's just that they are not high profile cases and don't linger in the news for months on end. They are reported, though, at least here in New York, they are.

[MULLY]

[quote name='steggyD' post='523816' date='Aug 9 2007, 09:50 AM']No one made Vick fight dogs and kill dogs. We are not to blame for his mishaps. But now he has given the people a story to follow, and follow, the people will do.[/quote]

Alledgedly. See, this is what I mean. In the public eye he's already guilty. Not saying he's not guilty but things like this prove the point. He'll never work again.
MULLY

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Fulcher_33' post='523835' date='Aug 8 2007, 07:42 PM']Alledgedly. See, this is what I mean. In the public eye he's already guilty. Not saying he's not guilty but things like this prove the point. He'll never work again.
MULLY[/quote]
Even if that proves to be true, it's his own fault, and he will only go the way of MC Hammer in terms of entourage expenses if he allows it to happen.
Reagrdless of his guilt, if he quits spending stupid money, then even if he goes to prison, he'll be set for life...IF he doesn't waste his money, which I suspect he is....

[Harmening]

It's Vick's bad judgement in the past that makes him such an easy target now. He's brought his public image, fair or not, onto himself.

[|Lucid|]

As someone who wathes about 50 hours of cable news in a week I can tell you that Vick is RARELY covered (CNN has only run 2 or 3 stories on it) and the bridge tragedy was 24/7 solid for over a week.

Also as someone who watched the Laci Peterson murder story trump everything including thr Iraq war for about a year, I can tell you that what the media/public chooses to run with is without rhyme or reason. But it surely isn't because we care more about dogs than people.

That's just crazy talk.

Seriously, think about what you are saying, because you sound like an idiot when you propose such bullshit.

[ONYX]

[color="#FF0000"][b]Another interesting part of this story that many are not aware of........

Just a few years ago, Nike came under fire for having sweatshops in Asia producing
their products. Many of these sweatshops employ children as young as 5 or 6 and
force them to work long hours for not even a dollar per day.

So now Nike, in response to public outrage, has pulled Michael Vick from their ads. The
company that exploits and abuses children, no longer wants to associate itself with the
athlete who exploits and abuses dogs.


Priceless.[/b][/color]

[|Lucid|]

I don't think anyone believes that these guys are acting out of morality. It's all about money - of course it stinks

[ONYX]

[quote name='Lucid' post='524056' date='Aug 9 2007, 10:11 AM']I don't think anyone believes that these guys are acting out of morality. It's all about money - of course it stinks[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]It also gives some validation to Mully's belief.[/b][/color]

[Montecore]

[quote name='Lucid' post='523535' date='Aug 8 2007, 10:42 AM']What do you think the outrage would be like if he had beaten a homeless prostitute to death for kicks? Even just once.

Yet engaging in felony activity for the past 5 years while brutaly killing hundreds of animals is somehow illiciting an outageous reaction?

What out of proportion action are you talking about here? The loss of multi-million dollar sponsorhips while he maintains his status of employee of the NFL, which also pays him millions?

Or perhaps are you referring to the "public outrage"? --- "Oh noes!! People are saying nasty things about me on talk radio.... boo hoo hoo. Guess I'll just have to fly the fuck outta here on my private jet to my other more remote mansion to get away from it all"
Poor Michele Vick.[/quote]

You misunderstood me. I am in no way defending or feeling sorry for Michael Vick. In fact, I think the "public outrage" is well placed. All I was saying is that the public should be as outraged about vehicular manslaughter while intoxicated or wife beating as they are about dog fighting. As sneaky said (give or take), disrespecting human life should be met with at least as much outrage as killing dogs. But because these actions are more commonplace, they don't make the headlines in the same way that Vick's alleged actions have.

[Hooky]

[quote name='Lucid' post='524056' date='Aug 9 2007, 10:11 AM']I don't think anyone believes that these guys are acting out of morality. It's all about money - of course it stinks[/quote]

Couldn't doing things just for the money be a question of morality? It's funny how some people in question (Vick) are just trying to make a buck while others, say capitalists that are making money legally, are just greedy bastards.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Montecore' post='524062' date='Aug 9 2007, 10:20 AM']You misunderstood me. I am in no way defending or feeling sorry for Michael Vick. In fact, I think the "public outrage" is well placed. All I was saying is that the public should be as outraged about vehicular manslaughter while intoxicated or wife beating as they are about dog fighting. As Onyx said (give or take), disrespecting human life should be met with at least as much outrage as killing dogs. But because these actions are more commonplace, they don't make the headlines in the same way that Vick's alleged actions have.[/quote]


ding ding ding

[oldschooler]

Why do people keep trying to tie in a relation between human treatment and animal treatment ?

No one is saying that beating a pregnant dog is worse than beating a pregnant woman.
No one is saying killing a dog or puppy is worse than killing a human or a baby.

Vick isn`t just accused by his local police department of abusing 1 dog.
He`s accused by the Federal Government of running and funding an
organized crime ring, in which many dogs were breed to fight, were gambled on
and were tortured and killed.

If Vick was accused by the Federal Government of the same crimes against Humans,
he would be in a whole hell of a lot more shit than what he is in now. He would be
be in jail facing the Death Penalty. Not in his Mansion facing 6 years in Prison.
And yes, he would definitely be shunned by Companies that had sponsored him.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Montecore' post='524062' date='Aug 9 2007, 10:20 AM']You misunderstood me. I am in no way defending or feeling sorry for Michael Vick. In fact, I think the "public outrage" is well placed. All I was saying is that the public should be as outraged about vehicular manslaughter while intoxicated or wife beating as they are about dog fighting. As sneaky said (give or take), disrespecting human life should be met with at least as much outrage as killing dogs. But because these actions are more commonplace, they don't make the headlines in the same way that Vick's alleged actions have.[/quote]


Why did the Laci Peterson murder get so much press then? There were no animals involved there..... How come I couldn't get away from the Terri Scheivo (sp) thing? Why did I need an update every 15 minutes on Brittany Spears condition, and why she shaved her fugli-ass melon?

My point is that the morality or severity of a story has absolutely nothing to do with how much attention it gets. In a sense it has to do with the framing of the crime. Someone beating thier wife, is horrible. But it happens all the time. It's not that people aren't outraged, it's just that it happens often enough that it's not INTERESTING. It's INTEREST, not outrage which sells stories.

Interest is generated by making the story unique. In this case it's Vick's celebrity coupled with the brutality of the crime which has generated the interest. It's not his race, and it isn't the crime itself.

There are plenty of black dog-fighters in this country. And when one gets arrested I guarantee that none of you will hear about it. Why? Is it because no one will care any more about the poor animals?

NO

It won't be interesting because no one will care about the perp.

In America EVERYONE knows Micheal Vick, whether you watch football or not. Thats why people are talking about it... Because you CAN talk about it, and everyone will know WHAT you are talking about.

The reason for crime stories becoming stories is complicated, but in this case you can stop at the word CELEBRITY.

[MULLY]

[quote name='Lucid' post='524017' date='Aug 9 2007, 10:25 PM']As someone who wathes about 50 hours of cable news in a week I can tell you that Vick is RARELY covered (CNN has only run 2 or 3 stories on it) and the bridge tragedy was 24/7 solid for over a week.

Also as someone who watched the Laci Peterson murder story trump everything including thr Iraq war for about a year, I can tell you that what the media/public chooses to run with is without rhyme or reason. But it surely isn't because we care more about dogs than people.

That's just crazy talk.

Seriously, think about what you are saying, because you sound like an idiot when you propose such bullshit.[/quote]


Hey, careful throwing the "idiot" comments around.
MULLY

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Fulcher_33' post='524078' date='Aug 9 2007, 10:46 AM']Hey, careful throwing the "idiot" comments around.
MULLY[/quote]


For the record. "sounding like" an idiot and "being" an idiot are 2 completely different things.

Everyone SOUNDS like an idiot from time. It's the inability to recognize those times that might mean you truly ARE one.