Jesus vs Muhammad

[Lawman]

[color="#000080"][i]For the Lord saith, Ye shall be as lambs in the midst of wolves[/i][/color]

[b]Other threads have been taking on the same theme lately, christianity vs islam. I take full responsibilty for such trends. So, I have decided to create a thread dedicated primarily to this topic. My intent is to get into a civil discourse on the subgect if possible; I highly doubt it.[/b]

[b]Now, I expect to be personally attacked as in the past; but if you have not figured it out yet. I DON'T CARE.
I do not answer to anyone here (other than GO of course). This is not aboutme and never has been. This is aboutand Ideology that needs to be addressed and my best answer is to say this can only be done from the inside Islam itself and I would be satisfied if Islam turned to Muhammad's earlier messages when therewas something truly good and great about the man.[/b]

[color="#8B0000"]DISCLAIMER: I will be cut and pasteing you guys to death (with links). [/color]

[i]On Sep 11th, 2001 something traumatic happened to our country; some have chosen to forget or have attempted to obsfucate the truth. I was in the final days of my "rights of passage" on the HST, already on an emotional roller-coaster, this event was my awakening. Initially, I was confused as were most to the "why?". Inquisitive by nature, I needed to know more. Ironically, six months after that terrible day,I departed for DC to work at the Defense Intelligence Agency and directed for assignment to the Pentagon.[/i]

[i]I spent one year working at the Pentagon working for the J2, providing broadcast support for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff intelligence briefing and I returned for a brief tour when the war kicked off working for the J2 again as a Watch Officer for the Iraqi Working Group. I started seeing some things that caught my attention and didn't add up to Islam as a "Religon of Peace. I started returning to my room (I was a GEO-Bachelor) and periodically explore the internet on the subject. Now, if you recall, last night I posted a piece from Mr. Woods and ourexperiences are eirily similar. As I have stated in the past, I found people in Muslim
countries to be the nicest and most hospitable people I have ever met.[/i]

[i]I spent the next three years learning and trying to understand this religon. I have talked to other christians Jews, Hindu's and Muslim's themselves (GTMO translators) to try and understand. Over the past years, I have been galvanized in the belief as to what is truth and I am prepared to present it here.[/i]

[color="#8B0000"]DISCLAIMER: [b]What I present comes from the Koran, Hadith's and biographers of Muhammad[/b]. A Hadith is an oral report from Muhammad or his companions. The most revered Collection was compiled in a topical arrangement by [b]Bukhari[/b]. Allah's Book, the Qur'an, lacks context and chronology, so to understand it, readers are dependent upon the Sira, Ta'rikh, and Hadith. The Ta'rikh is the oldest, most trusted and comprehensive history of Islam's formation and Muhammad's example, called Sunnah. It was written by [b]Tabari[/b]. His History of al-Tabari is formatted like the Bible. It begins with Islamic creation and ends with the acts of Muhammad's companions. Tabari is a compilation of Hadith quotes and Qur'an passages. As compiled by Craig Winn. AAdditionally, I will use material supplied by Vernon Richards.[/color]

[color="#000080"]My quest to understand Islam began on the morning of September 11th 2001. I wanted to know why Muslim militants were killing us. So I went off to Ground Zero for Islamic terror - Israel. The West Bank is home to more suicide bombers per capita than anywhere else on earth. I arranged to meet with the terrorists themselves. I asked members of al-Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade, and Hamas why they were killing us. They said, "Islam. We are following Muhammad's orders." That adventure is recounted in [url="http://teawithterrorists.com/Tea_with_Terrorists_x_Interview.Terrorism"]Tea With Terrorists [/url]. It covers a wide range of material and serves as a companion volume, connecting fundamental Islam to terrorism. Prophet of Doom focuses strictly on what the Islamic scriptures have to say.
Craig Winn
November 2003
ProphetOfDoom.net[/color]

[i]Yes, I know BJ or Homer will come on with some disparaging remarks on Mr. winn,but that's expected.

Here is Winn in an interview:[/i]

[b]What gives you the right to speak out on the decline of American values, morality, and other people’s religion? Are you some kind of saint on God’s errand?[/b]

[color="#000080"]I’m as flawed as anybody and I know it, which is probably one on the reasons I’m perfect for the job. I know my limitations.[/color]

[b]You said that you were on a mission. What is that mission?[/b]

[color="#000080"]My agenda is simple and transparent. I want to tell the truth, and by doing so I hope to accomplish five things. First, I want to stop terrorists from killing Americans and Jews. Second, I want to postpone World War III, Armageddon. Third, I want to help save my country. Fourth, I would like to free the billion people who are currently living hellish lives, enslaved to a false, racist, repressive, and violent doctrine called Islam. And fifth, I would like people to know that God is, that he loves us, and that he wants us to know him.[/color]

[b]America spends $40 billion a year on intelligence gathering. How can your conclusions be right and our government’s wrong?[/b]

[color="#000080"]With $40 and a trip to a bookstore you can learn more about the cause of and the cure for terror than our nation’s intelligence community seems to know after spending $40 billion. Buy and read three books, the Bible, the Qur’an, and the Hadith of al-Bukhari and you’ll learn who the terrorists are, why they kill, and what can be done to stop them. [b]The truth isn’t hidden[/b].[/color] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img]

[b]"DAY OF DOOM"[/b] [i]How did Islam come about? Where did it start?[/i]

[i]The Arabic word for peace is salaam, and that Islam is Arabic for surrender or submission; Muslim means one who submits. Everything in Islam points to ONE man Muhammad. Stop and think for a moment, here is a manwho claims he is a prophet sent from Allah and only through him has Allah revealed the truth. Come on, we are suppose to believe this crock and bull? I know there are plenty of cynics out there.

In judaism, god revealed himself to many people. In christianity,we have Jesus,enough said.

Muhammad, this one man, shwredly started this religon with the assistance of a few accomplices, using force and coercion, deciets and lies. Let's test this self-proclaimed [i]profit[/i]:[/i]

[color="#8B0000"][b]DISCLAIMER: WE are NOT to test God, but prophets are fair game[/b].[/color]

[color="#000080"]For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible. See, I (Jesus) have told you ahead of time. (Matthew 24:24-25)[/color]

[color="#000080"]Do not put out the Spirit's fire; do not treat prophecies with contempt. Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil. (1 Thessalonians 5:19-22,)[/color]

[color="#000080"]Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world (1 John 4:1,)[/color]

[color="#000080"]For Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14)[/color]

[i]I don't think that was Gabriel speaking to Muhammad.[/i]

[i]The Quran says that the Bible is the word of God and as all can see, prophets must be tested.[/i]

[color="#000080"]The Qur'an makes three claims as to why Muhammad is a true prophet. These claims are "testable". These claims are:[/color]

[color="#000080"]The Qur'an confirms the teaching of the Jewish and Christian scriptures.[/color]
[i](hey, I just said this)[/i]

[quote]O ye unto whom the Scripture hath been given! Believe in what We have revealed,
confirming that which ye possess. (4:47 Pickthall)[/quote]

[color="#000080"]The Qur'an makes clearer the teaching of the Jewish and Christian scriptures.
Muhammad is foretold in the Jewish and Christian scriptures.[/color]

[u]Fighting for God[/u]

[color="#000080"]In the Gospel Jesus very clearly taught that Christians are not to fight for their religion.

But in the Qur'an it says that the Gospel taught that fighting for God (religion) is acceptable[/color]

[quote]They fight in the way of God; they kill, and are killed; that is a promise binding upon God in the Torah, and the[u] Gospel[/u], and the Koran (Sura 9:111, Arberry).[/quote]

[b]What the Qur'an teaches about the [u]Gospel [/u]is wrong. The Gospel clearly prohibits fighting for religion. The Qur'an does not confirm the Bible at this major point[/b]

[u]The Punishment for a Thief[/u]

[color="#000080"]In the Bible the punishment for stealing is that the thief must repay the property he stole plus an additional amount to compensate (Leviticus 6:1-5, Exodus 22:3-4). If the thief cannot repay then he is forced to work to repay his debt (Exodus 22:1). The maximum length of time that he can work is six years, then he must be released (Deuteronomy 15:12-14). This type of justice is property punishment for a property crime.

In the Qur'an however a thief is to have his hand cut off: [/color]

[quote]As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. (Qur'an 5:38, Pickthall)[/quote]

[b]This type of punishment is a permanent lifelong physical punishment for a property crime. The Qur'an's teaching in no way confirms the Bible's teaching.[/b]

[u]Jesus's Death[/u]

[color="#000080"]Jesus also said that his death and resurrection was what the prophets before him had foretold:[/color]

[quote]He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24:45-47)[/quote]

[color="#000080"]Jesus also explained the meaning of his death:[/color]

[quote]Whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave-- just as the Son of Man (Jesus) did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many. (Matthew 20:26-28)[/quote]

[color="#000080"]However, when the Qur'an teaches about the death of Jesus on the cross it says that he never really died![/color]
"
[quote]We (the Jews) slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of God" - yet they did not slay him, neither crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. ... and they slew him not of certainty - no indeed; God raised him up to Him; God is All-mighty, All-wise.(Sura 4:156-157, Arberry)[/quote]

[b]Jesus taught that his death on the cross was to pay for our sins and that it was part of God's work that he came to perform. However in the Qur'an Jesus' death on the cross is no death at all. Thus the Qur'an does not confirm the Bible [u]at this most important point[/u]. [/b]

[i]I gave the story of Zul-Qainan before, the Meccan's wanted to test Muhammad; so they went to the 'people of the book' and they were told to ask Muhammad: "Who is Zul-Qainan? Muhammad should of said "Why everyone knows of Alexander the Great" but he didn't. He madeup some other crazy story.[/i]

[i]Now, I can go on and on, but just by what has been presented, the Koran [b]DOES NOT[/b] confirm the Bible. The Koran actually contradicts itself. The earliest copy of the (incomplete) Koran identified was composed in 750 AD, some 100 years after the death of Muhammad[/i]

[i]Where did Muhammad get his information on the jewish and christian? Perhaps they were bought?[/i]

[Lawman]

[b]A very important section of the Qur'an which deals with the scripture of the Jews and Christians and their relation to the Qur'an is Surah 5:43-49. These verses record how Jews came to Muhummad to ask him for a decision, and it tells the answer he was to give them.[/b]

[quote]How come they (come) unto thee (Muhammad) for judgment when they have the Torah, wherein Allah hath delivered judgment (for them)? ... Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light ... And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil). Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.[/quote]

[quote]And unto thee (Muslims) have We revealed the Scripture (the Qur'an) with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which hath come unto thee. For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ. (5:43-48, MP)[/quote]

[color="#000080"][u]The key sentence from the above is[/u], [i]For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way[/i]. This verse is teaching that the different religious groups (Jews, Christians and Muslims), have each been given a divine law (Torah, Gospel and Qur'an) and that each group is to make their decisions based upon what they have been given.[/color]

[color="#000080"]Thus the Qur'an encourages Jews to judge by the Torah:[/color]

[quote]How come they (come) unto thee (Muhammad) for judgment when they have the Torah, wherein Allah hath delivered judgment (for them)? (5:43, MP)[/quote]

[color="#000080"]And the Qur'an urges Christians to judge by the Gospel:[/color]

[quote]Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers. (5:47, MP)[/quote]

[color="#000080"]And it encourages Muslims to judge by the Qur'an:[/color]

[quote]And unto thee (Muslims) have We revealed the Scripture (the Qur'an) with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed. (5:48, MP)[/quote]

[b]Again, we see that the Qur'an refers to the scriptures of the Christians and Jews as God's reliable word. Jews and Christians are commanded to consult their scriptures when desiring to know God's will. The Qur'an therefore considers these scriptures to be reliable. Surah 5:43-48 also shows that the Qur'an is not claiming to abrogate (replace) the Gospel and Torah but is a parallel revelation to them. [/b]

[quote]Say: "O People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord" (5:71 AYA/68 MP).[/quote]

[b]How can the Jew or Christian, stand fast by the Law and the Gospel, if the Law and the Gospel have been corrupted or abrogated? Again, the assumption of the Qur'an is that the scriptures that the Christians and Jews have is the reliable word of God.[/b]

[Rumble In the Jungle]

[b]it's not too late for you to convert Lawman, cross to the light my brother.[/b]

[Homer_Rice]

And the Great Panda in the Sky saith: "Hubbity-bubbity boop, I gots to take a poop. For civil talk to abide, don't treat Muslims like Bonnie and Clyde. "

[|Bunghole|]

I'm guessing "succint" isn't in your vocabulary....

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='571729' date='Oct 17 2007, 05:50 AM']I'm guessing "succint" isn't in your vocabulary....[/quote]
If he could find CARM.succinct.com, he might actually cut and paste from there.

Besides, I like it better this way. Without even looking at the poster's name, I know which posts to immediately skip over. The one with 7 pages of cut and paste in 2 colors, half in italics, and none of it properly accounted for using the quote feature. This way I can skip the propaganda, and read the replies that are made in response.

[i][color="#000080"]Lawman = If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.[/color][/i]

[Lawman]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='571729' date='Oct 17 2007, 12:50 AM']I'm guessing "[b]succint[/b]" isn't in your vocabulary....[/quote]

[b]succinct[/b]

[i]Yes Bung, I did fail to place yet another disclaimer to the length of post, I apologize.

The initial post will be long, then begin to taper off.[/i]

[Lawman]

[quote]Lawman = If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit[/quote]

[i]Since you provide little in way of substance; your absence will not be missed.[/i]

[Lawman]

[quote]For civil talk to abide, don't treat Muslims like Bonnie and Clyde. "[/quote]

[i]That would be the 11 milion of the 1.3 billion.[/i]

[Homer_Rice]

[quote]That would be the 11 milion of the 1.3 billion.[/quote]

That's not the issue at all, you major league doofus. If it were, then you would be posting about low intensity conflict, surrogate warfare, geopolitics, and other sundry topics associated with the violent manner in which disaffected groups around the world manifest their displeasure in unhealthy ways.

Instead, as a result of really poor judgement on your part, you insist (and persist) in making nonsensical arguments about how Islam is an ideology, not a religion. This might actually be interesting if you were able to marshall an actual argument; that might be a useful discussion though I doubt you would find many in agreement, even under those circumstances.

Now I know you think you are doing battle for Christ---blah, blah, blah--but actually, you are blaspheming his name. To associate Christianity with the arguments you have been making is vile, repugnant, and evil.

You say you don't care if people attack you. Perhaps this feeds a martyr complex you might have. In any case, what you are demonstrating here is not what you intend. This is a fine lesson in how a delusion can get a grip on some folks and turn them into raving fools.

[USN Bengal]

Lawman, believing in your faith is a wonderful thing. Sharing your faith with others, in hopes of helping them see the light of your faith is even better, especially when done in a christian manner... that is to say, with respect, compassion, understanding, patience, and love.

I first spoke up for you because I thought it important that you get the chance to have your say also. It was pointed out to me (Thanks WhodeyUK) that I needed to look back and learn what was going on here.

Religious persecution built on a foundation of lies is SIN in ANY religion.

In my studies and in my growth in my faith, I have never seen the likes of what you have posted. What kind of splinter group are you a part of? There ARE fundamentalist Muslims who have expressed [b][i]SOME[/i][/b] of the attributes that you are applying to a whole populace. In my dealings with people of the Muslim faith, I've not let what some fanatics do/have done to me make me hate those that I know are different.

You are on your own "Holy Crusade" or "Jihad" against Muslims... which is wrong.

My Lord (which I thought was OUR Lord) would never approve of your actions... quite honestly, you sound like Adolph Hitler.

[BengalBacker]

It's ironic, sad and disgusting that religion will most likely be the primary cause of the end of humanity.

I don't think Lawman is [b]completely[/b] wrong in some of the things he says. Islamic extremists are scary, and a threat to us all. So are Christian extremists. You're all nuts.

I like you Lawman. I'm sure you're a good guy who is standing up for what he believes. To be honest though, I seldom read your posts in here. Like someone else said, they're impossible to decipher with the italics, colors and bold, etc... And I've never been a fan of cut and paste discussion. I want to know what you think, not what some other guy thinks. Occasionally to back up a point of contention, ok, but not as a constant tactic. If I open a post and it's so long it's like reading a short book, plus all the pastes and confusing colors and shit, I skim it or skip it.

Quoting scripture to back up your arguments against Islam is like fighting bullshit with bullshit to me. If you could all get along and not fuck up my life, I wouldn't care what you believed. I agree that Islam teaches some shit that is a threat to me. So does Christianity. You all want to impose your beliefs.

It's like the ultimate sporting event. My God can beat up your God. People get so caught up in winning the argument, they ignore the truth. The truth is, the odds that your particular interpretation of your particular sect of your particular religion is right, are astronomical. If you're right, everyone else is wrong.

My guess is everyone is wrong. Anyone who tells me they know the answers is either lying or a fool. The sooner everyone realizes that, the better off we'll be. I doubt we last that long though. With Christians praying for rapture and Islamic Jihad, or what the fuck ever, we don't stand much of a chance.





fuckin' religion.....

[CTBengalsFan]

[quote name='BengalBacker' post='572289' date='Oct 18 2007, 05:54 AM']My guess is everyone is wrong. Anyone who tells me they know the answers is either lying or a fool. The sooner everyone realizes that, the better off we'll be. I doubt we last that long though. With Christians praying for rapture and Islamic Jihad, or what the fuck ever, we don't stand much of a chance.

fuckin' religion.....

[/quote]


AMEN!

also I started to actually read some of that drivel, laughable at best

I really feel bad for you Lawman if you really buy into that shit (which I'm sure you do). It's funny because you probably think they're the sheep, but in fact, it is you.

[Bean Counter]

Here's the thing that gets me. Violence in the name of God is antithesis to what being a Christian is all about. We had three people break into our rectory and set the sanctuary on fire. They fed this fire with bibles and sacramental robes. The arson happened in July and the repairs on our church were just completed. The perpetrators were unfortunately part of that anti-catholic movement that is prevalent throughout the south. They called themselves Christians yet they broke into a sacred place and proceeded to destroy it because they disagree with our religious practices.

Thankfully our priest was in Atlanta that night. If he had been in his apartment at the rectory who know what these people would have done to him.

Sound familiar?

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bean Counter' post='572522' date='Oct 18 2007, 01:59 PM']Here's the thing that gets me. Violence in the name of God is antithesis to what being a Christian is all about. We had three people break into our rectory and set the sanctuary on fire. They fed this fire with bibles and sacramental robes. The arson happened in July and the repairs on our church were just completed. The perpetrators were unfortunately part of that anti-catholic movement that is prevalent throughout the south. They called themselves Christians yet they broke into a sacred place and proceeded to destroy it because they disagree with our religious practices.

Thankfully our priest was in Atlanta that night. If he had been in his apartment at the rectory who know what these people would have done to him.

Sound familiar?[/quote]


Were they of Irish decent?

[Bean Counter]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='572526' date='Oct 18 2007, 02:05 PM']Were they of Irish decent? [/quote]

Yikes. I am not even going to touch that one. As an American Indian and a Catholic I know not to mess with the WASPS.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bean Counter' post='572541' date='Oct 18 2007, 02:20 PM']Yikes. I am not even going to touch that one. As an American Indian and a Catholic I know not to mess with the WASPS. [/quote]


Oh not all of us WASP's are that bad.

[Lawman]

[quote]Violence in the name of God is antithesis to what being a Christian is all about[/quote]

[i]I agree 100%[/i]

[quote]They [b]called themselves Christians [/b]yet they broke into a sacred place and proceeded to destroy it because they disagree with our religious practices.[/quote]

[i]That is part of my argument, please stick around. I'm thinking , they weren't who they say they were.[/i]

Disclaimer: [url="http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/radioproppaper.htm"]Black propaganda[/url], [i]I was looking for this term earlier and it came to me after my original post.[/i]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' post='572297' date='Oct 18 2007, 07:11 AM']AMEN!

also I started to actually read some of that drivel, laughable at best

I really feel bad for you Lawman if you really buy into that shit (which I'm sure you do). It's funny because you probably think they're the sheep, but in fact, it is you.[/quote]


I was origanally going to let this go as its such a silly comment I really didnt want to waste my time, but I cant.

I dont nessasarly agree with everything Lawman says, and I absolutly dont agree with his approach, but calling him a sheep is so uneducated that the comment is laughable.


Christianity, and I imagine all religons, is predicated on free will, meaning all people are to choose whether they follow christ or not. It is not possible to be a sheep under that notion.

Your comments reguarding religon in this forum are always very uneducated, I would suggest you do some reading so that you can at least know what your talking about.

[Lawman]

[quote]And I've never been a fan of cut and paste discussion. I want to know what you think, not what some other guy thinks[/quote]

[i]BB,

First, thanks for some of your comments. I think you are deservingly due an explanation of my tactic.[/i]

[i]If I were to come out and state "x+y=z"; cynics would come out of the woodwork stating "bullshit,prove it".
What I do is throw out the proof first with my position of yes agree with points A & B, but not so much on C.

I will always present from a position I believe to be true, based on my own presuppositions.

In respect to that, I will also the cut and past method to counter an argument; which I percieve to be
taking out of context. When this is done, it is usaully done with malicious intent attacking the validity of christianity.

Of course we all know the primary culprit for such attacks is BJ. Now, of course he does it to promote his agenda and we all have agenda's, but when he does it, I believe he knows the true meaning of what he post and he is looking to see if he can be called on it. I am ready to oblige him.[/i]

[i]Lastly, I do this to invoke thought, for others to research on their own.[/i]

[quote]Quoting scripture to back up your arguments against Islam is like fighting bullshit with bullshit to me.[/quote]

[i]For my argument that the Koran is not preserved (presented to Muhammad from God himself or the true Word of God), this is truly the only way. In a nutshell as to my first postings in this thread; I have Identified where in one verse the Koran says the Torah and the Bible ARE the words of God, because Allah gave it to them. But later on the Koran will contradict itself and say that they have been corrupted. This is known as abrogation:[/i]
[color="#000080"]1 : to abolish by authoritative action : annul
2 : to treat as nonexistent <abrogating their responsibilities> [/color]

[i]Imagine your in a classroom (college) and yourprofessor comes in and say's "hey,what we learned yesterday, forget about it, I have found something better" and he continues this practice throughout the year. Do you not think his words would be less credible over time. The Quran is replete with such abrogations.[/i]

[quote]Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things?. (Pickthall)[/quote]

[i]A God should be definitive from the get-go. What about Jesus? He confirmed the scriptures, not to replace them. additionally, the covenant for the Jews had ended and a new covenant with 'all of men' had begun. plus, one must understand the context of the Old testament.[/i]

[i]Most don't care for my methods, but I am more inclined to say it's my "words". Remember,[/i] "A lie is easier to swallow, beacause the truth comes witha big dose of reality".

[quote]If you could all get along and not fuck up my life, I wouldn't care what you believed. I agree that Islam teaches some shit that is a threat to me. So does Christianity.[/quote]

[i]I do not wish harm on anyone and I do not feel that the war with "Radical Islamic Jihadist" (I wish people would get what I am actually saying right) cannot be soley won through warfare. The radicalism from the religon must be removed from within the religon itself by the moderates who wish to live in peace; amongst others.[/i]

[i]IKOTA, you MUST agree with this last notion. Actually,this is what I have been looking for from you. Presenting
an argument against me, providing information that moderates are taking true action and not merely giving lip-service. I know, it is hard to find an Adams, Jefferson, Madison or Franklin in Islam. I truly would like to see one.[/i]

[i]BB, TRUE Christianity is no threat to you, you have the choice"Free Will" to believe and accept as you wish. [/i]

[Lawman]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='572711' date='Oct 18 2007, 06:50 PM']I was origanally going to let this go as its such a silly comment I really didnt want to waste my time, but I cant.

I dont nessasarly agree with everything Lawman says, and I absolutly dont agree with his approach, but calling him a sheep is so uneducated that the comment is laughable.
Christianity, and I imagine all religons, is predicated on free will, meaning all people are to choose whether they follow christ or not. It is not possible to be a sheep under that notion.

Your comments reguarding religon in this forum are always very uneducated, I would suggest you do some reading so that you can at least know what your talking about.[/quote]

[i]Excellent reply to a drive-by, nothing to substantiate his post[/i] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img]

[CTBengalsFan]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='572711' date='Oct 18 2007, 06:50 PM']I was origanally going to let this go as its such a silly comment I really didnt want to waste my time, but I cant.

I dont nessasarly agree with everything Lawman says, and I absolutly dont agree with his approach, but calling him a sheep is so uneducated that the comment is laughable.
Christianity, and I imagine all religons, is predicated on free will, meaning all people are to choose whether they follow christ or not. It is not possible to be a sheep under that notion.

Your comments reguarding religon in this forum are always very uneducated, I would suggest you do some reading so that you can at least know what your talking about.[/quote]

I didn't say he was sheep for following Christianity, but he is for reading underground fundy Christian websites and then copy and pasting it all over the internet. And the messages what he posts sends are insensitive and rather racist. Muslims are all inherently violent, also I seem to remember him quoting some radical Christian White Power websites in an effort to prove that the Holocaust wasn't nearly as bad as the Jews claim.

[Lawman]

[quote]With [b]Christians praying for rapture [/b]and Islamic Jihad, or what the fuck ever, we don't stand much of a chance.[/quote]

[i] I guess this is what you meant as the Christian threat.[/i]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' post='572736' date='Oct 18 2007, 07:39 PM']I didn't say he was sheep for following Christianity, but he is for reading underground fundy Christian websites and then copy and pasting it all over the internet. And the messages what he posts sends are insensitive and rather racist. Muslims are all inherently violent, also I seem to remember him quoting some radical Christian White Power websites in an effort to prove that the Holocaust wasn't nearly as bad as the Jews claim. [/quote]


Way to sidestep. No not this time, but your one of the ilk who does come in with these types of uneducated "drive byes" on occasion.

[Homer_Rice]

[quote]If I were to come out and state "x+y=z"; cynics would come out of the woodwork stating "bullshit,prove it".[/quote]

No they might just "solve" the equation:

Where x = xenophobia,
and y = you fucking foreigner religionists;
then z = is the zapping of the bombs we'll drop on your ass.