Sign Faneca

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='fredtoast' post='610807' date='Dec 17 2007, 03:37 PM']Lack of protection has nothing to do with Carson's problems. Only one team has given up fewer sacks than the Bengals.

Meanwhile the Steelers line has given up more sacks per passing attempt than EVERY team in the league.

The Bengals may have some needs on the O-line, but they are not top priority needs. I'm all for signing a top tier FA, just not an O-lineman. UNless Willie doesn't return so that we can use some of his $5 million contract we just don't have enough money to pour another $6 million a year into an OG.[/quote]

especially when we have 2 god guards, but the oline is a factor, he is getting hit often when he throws and having to rush throws because of the lack of protection, the lack of sacks just means he is smart enough to get rid of it in time.

[|doogles|]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='610810' date='Dec 17 2007, 03:40 PM']especially when we have 2 god guards, but the oline is a factor, he is getting hit often when he throws and having to rush throws because of the lack of protection, the lack of sacks just means he is smart enough to get rid of it in time.[/quote]

Is there an official "rushed" statistic? Because I've "felt" like Carson has been rushed all year, more so than even last year, and definitely more so than 2005. But of course, as we've said in other thread, losing skews everything so maybe that's not reality.

However, assuming we agree Carson is constantly rushed, what do we do? I get the impression there is a consensus that our Center play is lacking and that's the source of most of our woes.

-jd

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='doogles' post='610813' date='Dec 17 2007, 03:47 PM']Is there an official "rushed" statistic? Because I've "felt" like Carson has been rushed all year, more so than even last year, and definitely more so than 2005. But of course, as we've said in other thread, losing skews everything so maybe that's not reality.

However, assuming we agree Carson is constantly rushed, what do we do? I get the impression there is a consensus that our Center play is lacking and that's the source of most of our woes.

-jd[/quote]


there isnt a stat i dont think. i think they track knock downs and sacks somewhere.. which knock downs would be somewhat telling.

as for center, i dont know if its from injury or lack of skill, ghuicec played alright previous.. but not this year.

i dont know how to fix it. aside from replacing him.. i want braham back..

[Patmo]

Never,Ever take a Steeler castoff.They use 'em up and let'em go.

[Le Tigre]

[quote name='big_dish' post='610266' date='Dec 16 2007, 02:16 PM']2. Carson isnt who we thought he was.[/quote]

[url="http://youtube.com/watch?v=aYKIcnj1MJY"]http://youtube.com/watch?v=aYKIcnj1MJY[/url]

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='610805' date='Dec 17 2007, 03:36 PM']actually not missing steiny as much as it may seem, for what gain he gave the running game, he was the guy responsible for both of carsons knee injuries. and whitworth is doing a great job. the line needs to improve, and that does mean it needs new tallent, but whitworth has been great, if we can add a whitworth caliber palyer we aerw in good shape.

Levi healthy - whitworth - whitworth caliber center? - bobbie - andrews /whitworth caliber rt?

im not a fan of sitiring things up on the oline consistancy and continuity seem to be key in success, so no shufflinggguys for me, replace the weakest link with an upgrade and let the group get to working together.[/quote]

I agree completely....a QB does'nt have to be hit to get rattled..and it seems like Carson is always trying to step around players falling at his feet to deliver the ball.

[bubba]

I watched Faneca play tonight, the dude is not overrated and has not lost anything. We add him to our L-line, preferably center, we instantly are far better. Tough, nasty, experienced, smart, I'll take thatl in a heartbeat !

Although its sickening taking any former stealer!

[claptonrocks]

[quote name='bubba' post='612089' date='Dec 20 2007, 11:54 PM']I watched Faneca play tonight, the dude is not overrated and has not lost anything. We add him to our L-line, preferably center, we instantly are far better. Tough, nasty, experienced, smart, I'll take thatl in a heartbeat !

Although its sickening taking any former stealer![/quote]
You be right Bubba.. Faneca is one tough hombre....

[Rick]

The Steelers will resign him. He will be happy.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='Rick' post='612111' date='Dec 21 2007, 07:41 AM']The Steelers will resign him. He will be happy.[/quote]

Willing to make a wager?

2 weeks ago one of the sideline reporters said Faneca told her that one of the local newspapers suggested he take a home town discount to stay in pissburgh and his reply was "No way in Hell!"

[Rick]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' post='612125' date='Dec 21 2007, 08:36 AM']Willing to make a wager?

2 weeks ago one of the sideline reporters said Faneca told her that one of the local newspapers suggested he take a home town discount to stay in pissburgh and his reply was "No way in Hell!"[/quote]

The Steelers will raise his salary.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='big_dish' post='610266' date='Dec 16 2007, 02:16 PM']We will NEVER feild a competitive team if we always have to give Carson the best of every position. [b]Ive never heard of a QB who needs so many peices of a puzzle to be perfect in order for him to succeed.[/b]

Maybe its time to face the facts:

Either:

1. Carson is fine and is having a bad year (happens) and will be back to the great QB we thought he was next year

or

2. Carson isnt who we thought he was.[/quote]

Oh really?


Tell me who these stats are for then.

[code]G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck Rate
16 16 343 613 56.0 3,885 6.3 18 18 21 72.7[/code]


Now here are Carson's stats so far this year

[code]G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck Rate
14 14 339 522 64.9 3,700 7.1 22 17 17 86.2[/code]


Can you guess whos stats are the first one? If you had the choice between the two who would you take? If you go by numbers I would take Carson. But here's a hint... The first guy is a first ballot hall of famer.

He is also having a hell of a year this year.

Still don't know?




Brett Favre.



I guess Brett forgot how to play QB last year? Because we all know that truly elite QB's put up great numbers regardless of how their team plays around them.

You can point to sack #'s all day, but it's a misleading stat. When I see Carson play he is hurried.. He's got players being pushed into him. QB pressure shows up on the stat sheet in different ways.. Maybe it shows up in sacks.. But it can also show up in poor throws, miscommunications, bad decisions and INT's.

If the QB holds on to the ball he gets sacked. If he makes a hasty decision to get the play off, other things happen. I think Palmer is trying too hard to make things happen and as a result, [i]bad[/i] things are happening.

He didn't just become a shitty QB.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='Lucid' post='612168' date='Dec 21 2007, 10:14 AM']Oh really?


Tell me who these stats are for then.

[code]G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck Rate
16 16 343 613 56.0 3,885 6.3 18 18 21 72.7[/code]


Now here are Carson's stats so far this year

[code]G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck Rate
14 14 339 522 64.9 3,700 7.1 22 17 17 86.2[/code]


Can you guess whos stats are the first one? If you had the choice between the two who would you take? If you go by numbers I would take Carson. But here's a hint... The first guy is a first ballot hall of famer.

He is also having a hell of a year this year.

Still don't know?




Brett Favre.



I guess Brett forgot how to play QB last year? Because we all know that truly elite QB's put up great numbers regardless of how their team plays around them.

You can point to sack #'s all day, but it's a misleading stat. When I see Carson play he is hurried.. He's got players being pushed into him. QB pressure shows up on the stat sheet in different ways.. Maybe it shows up in sacks.. But it can also show up in poor throws, miscommunications, bad decisions and INT's.

If the QB holds on to the ball he gets sacked. If he makes a hasty decision to get the play off, other things happen. I think Palmer is trying too hard to make things happen and as a result, [i]bad[/i] things are happening.

He didn't just become a shitty QB.[/quote]

If I recall, Farve had no running game, and a young makeshift offensive line last year. I believe this also made his offense pretty predictable.


Coincidence? I think not!

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Rick' post='612145' date='Dec 21 2007, 09:18 AM']The Steelers will raise his salary.[/quote]


No chance, they are going to start putting money away for Ben. Now that Romo has his contract, Ben has been complaining....we [b]may[/b] see a holdout.

[bengalbutch]

[quote]If I recall, Farve had no running game, and a young makeshift offensive line last year. I believe this also made his offense pretty predictable.


Coincidence? I think not![/quote]


Brat is what makes us predictable .

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' post='610372' date='Dec 16 2007, 05:59 PM']Whit was a RIGHT TACKLE in college......Normally in the NFL Right tackles are tackles that are to slow to play left tackle because speed rushers are usually lined up on that side. He has not played right tackle in the pros yet to prove if he can play it.[/quote]
He meant that Whit had played LT for the Bengals when Levi was out...although outside of a bad game or two, I thought he fared pretty well. The knock on Whit playing LT is his lack of speed against defense's RE's, whom are typically the best pass-rushing dlineman.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='612194' date='Dec 21 2007, 11:10 AM']He meant that Whit had played LT for the Bengals when Levi was out...although outside of a bad game or two, I thought he fared pretty well. The knock on Whit playing LT is his lack of speed against defense's RE's, whom are typically the best pass-rushing dlineman.[/quote]

That is why I suggested moving him to RT and sign Faneca or another good guard to take his place at LG.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' post='612227' date='Dec 21 2007, 12:02 PM']That is why I suggested moving him to RT and sign Faneca or another good guard to take his place at LG.[/quote]
But why do that when we have Stacy Andrews to play RT if and when Willie leaves? We would then draft another backup at little cost, maybe Kieft comes back, we have Stepanovich under contract...I just can't see paying Faneca the kind of money that he wants. Hell, I wish we'd never let Mike Goff go, but that's water under the bridge now too.
Plus, it really does appear that Whitworth is more suited to play guard in the NFL due to his size and lack of edge speed.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='612244' date='Dec 21 2007, 01:08 PM']But why do that when we have Stacy Andrews to play RT if and when Willie leaves? We would then draft another backup at little cost, maybe Kieft comes back, we have Stepanovich under contract...I just can't see paying Faneca the kind of money that he wants. Hell, I wish we'd never let Mike Goff go, but that's water under the bridge now too.
Plus, it really does appear that Whitworth is more suited to play guard in the NFL due to his size and lack of edge speed.[/quote]

Because then we would not have to worry about giving Andrews a big contract, and I don't necessarily agree Whitworth is more suited for guard. I think he is too tall for guard. I also think the Bluto at C and Whitworth at G combo is one of the reasons we are not running the ball very effectively. Factor in that Rudi is not a game breaking running back that can make something out of nothing and I present you the root of the problems on our offense this year.

That and I think Faneca's toughness is just the attitude change we need to get this team over the hump.

[cwing]

Didn't Pitt give up like 4 sacks last night and Dion/Marshall continuely speakin gof how often Ben got hit. Didn't they keep speaking of how teh Pitt oline was much better in run than in pass mode ----------- not sure I want guys that can't pass block.

[claptonrocks]

[quote name='cwing' post='612287' date='Dec 21 2007, 03:59 PM']Didn't Pitt give up like 4 sacks last night and Dion/Marshall continuely speakin gof how often Ben got hit. Didn't they keep speaking of how teh Pitt oline was much better in run than in pass mode ----------- not sure I want guys that can't pass block.[/quote]

Looking at the Steeler line aside from Faneca just who is a quality lineman?
Colon may or may not be a good RT Simmons is ok, the center ????, and Marvel Smith is decent.
Even With Faneca Im not sure Id trade them line for line even up.....

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='claptonrocks' post='612290' date='Dec 21 2007, 04:08 PM']Looking at the Steeler line aside from Faneca just who is a quality lineman?
Colon may or may not be a good RT Simmons is ok, the center ????, and Marvel Smith is decent.
[color="#FF0000"]Even With Faneca Im not sure Id trade them line for line even up.....[/color][/quote]


Hell no I wouldnt.

[claptonrocks]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='612293' date='Dec 21 2007, 04:23 PM']Hell no I wouldnt.[/quote]
Addition by subtraction Jamie..
We sign Faneca ..their line really becomes adequate at best.
What would you think Andrews would be asking for?
By taking the money saved on Andrews and not re signing Justin, would that even out Faneca deal?
I know he wants alot but damn Id like to see him in the interior of our line....drool....

[cwing]

[quote name='claptonrocks' post='612290' date='Dec 21 2007, 04:08 PM']Looking at the Steeler line aside from Faneca just who is a quality lineman?
Colon may or may not be a good RT Simmons is ok, the center ????, and Marvel Smith is decent.
Even With Faneca Im not sure Id trade them line for line even up.....[/quote]

Exactly ---------- the AFC North is weak this year. Pitt/Cleveland are going nowhere. Jack, Indy & NE are the powers to beat.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='claptonrocks' post='612297' date='Dec 21 2007, 04:28 PM']Addition by subtraction Jamie..
We sign Faneca ..their line really becomes adequate at best.
What would you think Andrews would be asking for?
By taking the money saved on Andrews and not re signing Justin, would that even out Faneca deal?
I know he wants alot but damn Id like to see him in the interior of our line....drool.... [/quote]


I highlighted the part where you said "Even With Faneca Im not sure Id trade them line for line even up....." as in no way would I do that.

Would I let Stacey walk move Whit to RT and sign him? Maybe, but only at a fair price, and I think he wants to be paid. Now this anamosity for the steelers he apparently now has, might make him cheaper to one of their rivals, and if so I'd jump on it. But I dont want to pay him to be the highest paid G in the league, (at 31) when we have bigger needs on the other side of the ball. We draft well on O, and can get a G in the draft. (or if there is a cheaper opition in FA).