Oldcat Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='sparky151' post='746984' date='Feb 16 2009, 04:31 PM']The next problem is losing TJ. I actually don't mind letting TJ go and thank him for his years of service to the team. The problem is that the team won't get adequate compensation.[/quote] The Market for large, long term deals for 32+ year old Wideouts may be not as bullish as TJ seems to think. Especially ones that missed a few games a year to injury every year. It's about this time that the wheels fall off, thus TJs wish for some security. Trades are pretty hard to pull off in the NFL, and don't tend to net those wonderful draft picks very often. What did Moss get, a fourth? If we gambled on a tag, we could have been left with a disgruntled player for 10 million dollars a year. Knowing this, why would anyone give us great compensation like a second rounder? And if he does get a nice contract, we get a third or fourth next year in exchange, barring an offsetting FA pickup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeplumber Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='Montana Bengal' post='746988' date='Feb 16 2009, 06:34 PM']Hmmm, didn't Sis say that the numbers that have been mentioned, and thrown around, weren't accurate at all?[/quote] what were the numbers thrown around per Sis? I heard $3M. That is $500K over the average of the top 5 Kickers make in a year. If he were offered this then he would jump on this number? I am sure the Bengals offered around this amount or why would they TAG him in the first place for $500K less then he was offered? What is a market value contract to him? I am sure it is over $3M or more because he is looking at the out years. "I appreciate the Bengals recognition of ! my value to the team," the statement read in part. "I would have preferred to enter a long-term market value contract, either with the Bengals or through free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Dont know if this was mentioned at all yet but.... [quote]Houshmandzadeh said he also thinks Chad Johnson's days in Cincinnati are over.[/quote] From this article... [quote]Bengals franchise kicker Graham Comment Email Print Share By James Walker ESPN.com Archive The Cincinnati Bengals have used their designated franchise tag, and it's not on the player some expected. Graham On Monday, the team tagged kicker Shayne Graham for the 2009 season. Graham will be paid $2.483 million, the average salary of the top five kickers in the NFL from the previous season to remain in a Bengal uniform. "I appreciate the Bengals' recognition of my value to the team," Graham said in a statement. "I would have preferred to enter a long-term market value contract, either with the Bengals or through free agency. "I will be committed to helping the Bengals win football games in the 2009 season. I truly appreciate the support of my teammates and the great fans of Cincinnati." Graham ranks fourth all-time in NFL field-goal accuracy at 85.6 in nine seasons. He would be allowed to negotiate with other teams, but that club would face the unlikely scenario of giving up first-round draft choices in 2009 and 2010. "Shayne has consistently performed at a high level for us, and we expect that same performance in 2009 and hopefully beyond," Bengals coach Marvin Lewis said in a statement. "We'll continue to speak with Shayne and his representatives about signing a longer-term deal." NFL.com Video A look back at some of T.J. Houshmandzadeh's most memorable plays from the 2008 season. It was possible that the Bengals could tag pending free agent T.J. Houshmandzadeh. But the former Pro Bowl receiver would have cost just under $10 million to keep for one season, so Cincinnati likely will let Houshmandzadeh test free agency next week. Houshmandzadeh, who signed a four-year contract worth roughly $3 million per year before the 2005 season, has not attended the team's offseason voluntary workouts the past two years because he felt he was underpaid. At age 32, he is on the older side for an NFL receiver, though he led the NFL in receptions in 2007 with 112. The receiver led the Bengals in receiving last year with 92 catches for 904 yards and four touchdowns on a team that ranked last in the NFL in scoring and yardage. It was the first time in three seasons that Houshmandzadeh had less than 1,000 yards receiving. Houshmandzadeh told ESPN's Bob Holtzman on Monday that there is a "90-something percent chance" he won't return to the Bengals. "If they asked Carson [Palmer]'s opinion I would be back, but they didn't," Houshmandzadeh said. "Why would you give a guy 100-something million dollars and not ask his opinion?" Houshmandzadeh said he also thinks Chad Johnson's days in Cincinnati are over. Lewis said, "We will also continue to talk with several of our other pending free agents in an ongoing attempt to re-sign them. Some will want to test their value in the market, and we of course will look at the market for possible new players. "But as I've said before, the best value for all sides tends to be when a team re-signs its own key free agents, and we will make every attempt to re-sign the players we consider most important for 2009." James Walker covers the AFC North for ESPN.com. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.[/quote] [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3911555"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3911555[/url] So apparently TJ doesnt think chad will be back either...also kinda takes a shot at the organization with the thing he said about Carson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='Bunghole' post='746985' date='Feb 16 2009, 06:31 PM']I get sick of people whom don't share another's opinion (unless that opinion is blatantly moronic, which these weren't) calling names like a little kid. Apparently Go felt the same way. I was on the verge of warning his ass but Go took care of it. It's just unecessary behavior. This isn't the political forum.[/quote] that's a custom pong often uses to try to legitimize his POV. not surprisingly, those views are usually laughed at. i've read his posts for years and those that know him refer to these tidbits of wisdom as "pongisms". it's been suggested he has a twin brother who posts much the same way...a poster known as "tibor". i don't know if there's any truth to this, but the similarities are alarming. oh, and for the record pong...you can group me in with those "idiots" that think cheap assed mike brown was stupid to let TJ walk for zero compensation. my theory? he was too concerned he'd get stuck with that $10M price tag. this was yet another example of how a GM, one with a better football mind, would be an asset to this organization to help with important decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='Oldcat' post='746993' date='Feb 16 2009, 06:46 PM']The Market for large, long term deals for 32+ year old Wideouts may be not as bullish as TJ seems to think. Especially ones that missed a few games a year to injury every year. It's about this time that the wheels fall off, thus TJs wish for some security. Trades are pretty hard to pull off in the NFL, and don't tend to net those wonderful draft picks very often. What did Moss get, a fourth? If we gambled on a tag, we could have been left with a disgruntled player for 10 million dollars a year. Knowing this, why would anyone give us great compensation like a second rounder? And if he does get a nice contract, we get a third or fourth next year in exchange, barring an offsetting FA pickup.[/quote] Trades are relatively rare in the NFL due to the cap treatment with bonus acceleration. Players who are tagged clear their entire cap number when traded so they are the easiest to trade. A pick this year is worth more than a comp pick next year. WR is a position with a high bust rate and even good prospects frequently don't hit their stride til their 3rd season. Trading for an established receiver in good health is a reasonable course of action for a team that wants to get better. In recent years we've seen trades for Welker and Moss, Chris Chambers, Marty Booker, Deion Branch, Moss again, Javon Walker and probably others. Let's hope we get an impact FA ourselves, but his contract might offset TJ's, costing us our comp pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 It's official TJ was a cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='joeplumber' post='746994' date='Feb 16 2009, 05:51 PM']what were the numbers thrown around per Sis? I heard $3M. That is $500K over the average of the top 5 Kickers make in a year. If he were offered this then he would jump on this number? I am sure the Bengals offered around this amount or why would they TAG him in the first place for $500K less then he was offered? What is a market value contract to him? I am sure it is over $3M or more because he is looking at the out years.[/quote] I believe the numbers thrown out here were $12 million over 4 years. She said that it was not accurate. The highest paid Kicker in the NFL made $3 million in 2008. That is why the Tag is less than $3 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalsdave985 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Is anyone else getting tired of TJ running his mouth? He's not on Chad level from last year but he's getting close and I feel he's getting a free pass. I really like TJ and think he's a great player but he is really wearing on me. He went on the radio row tour just like Chad but he seems to choose his words better so people dont jump all over him. Then he makes some comments today about the deal he signed in 2005 and how it wasnt a fair market deal. I think he is refering to that he feels he out played the deal the last few years which I would say he did but if he didnt like it in 05' why did he sign it? No one forced him to agree to those terms. I would also say what exactly did he do prior to 05' to deserve more money? I dont know but maybe they are put off and less willing to work out a new deal with him when he makes it very clear he has no intentions to attend anything that isnt mandatory and fineable. I am not going to pretend to understand this organization but maybe they are just saying we want guys who are committed to the team year round, maybe they are going after the guys that busted it the last month or so of the season and are done with all the "other" crap. Lastly, what exactly is the point of saying you dont think Chad will be back. I would not have tagged him and here's why. At 32 he is not worth 9.88 a year and besides maybe Fitz I am not sure any WR is. He has stated he would be pissed if we tagged him and would again not show up until he could accur a fine, we all see how well that worked last year. You could say tag and trade him which was a for sure possibility. The problem with that is since he ran his mouth about being pissed if they tagged him teams now know they can hold out and not give the Bengals market value. The Bengals choices were keep him and run the risk that he tears the team apart or trade him for less than he's worth, pretty much a lose lose. The last option would be a long term deal, my question to anyone is realisticly whats a fair deal for him. 5 mil a year, 7 a year, I really dont know. Like I said, i think TJ is great and he was good w/o Chad but a part of me thinks he's the next Alvin Harper/Peerless Price. Is he still great if he is the only WR option worth a shit and has the best corner plus rolled coverage to his side everytime? I love how confident he is but does anyone really think he is a legit #1 who can stretch the field? I dont. Does he really want to win or if he goes to a running team and gets 50 balls will he start to bitch. I would think if he didnt like 3mil a year he wouldnt be happy with 5 so do you think he is worth 5 yrs and 35 mil? The numbers say a WR doesnt keep it going once they reach his age, I know there are freaks like TO but Harrison has broken down and Holt is on his way and Holt might get released b/c of his contract. Look at the playoff teams this year, the model is defense, run the ball and protect the QB. Minus Zona its not spread the field and wing it to your 2 star wr's. IMO we are closer to having a good enough defense than maybe ever before. We should have a healthy QB and hopefully will have some quality rb depth. I know thats a lot of if's but it hasnt work the way they were trying it the last few years (injuries noted) maybe its time to try something different. All decisions could have been the right one, we will just have to wait and see if he's breaks down or keeps playing great, and thats why I am glad my employment isnt tied to the health of other people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='CJandRudiJ' post='746995' date='Feb 16 2009, 06:00 PM']Dont know if this was mentioned at all yet but.... From this article... [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3911555"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3911555[/url] So apparently TJ doesnt think chad will be back either...also kinda takes a shot at the organization with the thing he said about Carson.[/quote] TJ says Carson wanted him to stay, but so did the Bengals. That's why there were trying to negotiate a new contract. Then he says "don't tag me, I won't show up for anything." But then acts like they didn't want him. Classic. They didn't want to pay you Larry Fitzgerald money TJ. That does not equal they don't want you, or don't listen to Carson's wishes. [quote name='scharm' post='747001' date='Feb 16 2009, 06:33 PM']It's official TJ was a cancer.[/quote] No. It doesn't become official until he signs with another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='oldschooler' post='747004' date='Feb 16 2009, 07:39 PM']No. It doesn't become official until he signs with another team.[/quote] ahhh, so the biopsy has been sent off to the lab and we're waiting for the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalsdave985 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 From John Thornton's blog about a week or so ago, pretty interesting stuff So back to my question, who would I franchise? It would have to be the player that I could least afford to lose and I am not willing to pay what he is demanding. And it has to be a player that I know will be in demand on the open market, so resigning him once free agency starts is going to be tough. Because once other teams become involved, nobody will know who or what they are bidding against. So taking all of that into account, I would have to say the the Bengals would use the franchise tag on????? K Shayne Graham. Why Shayne you ask? Simple. Franchising Shayne would cost the team 2.5 Million dollars. Also, Shayne is the player that the team will find the hardest time replacing. Franchising TJ would cost 10 million dollars and tagging Cedric Benson would cost about 7 million. But Andre Caldwell can replace TJ and you have the 6th pick in the draft so I wouldn?t tag him. Cedric will want to paid like a starting RB and if he is not, he won?t accept a deal before free agency starts because he would rather take the franchise tag(7 mill) then take a lesser deal with more years on it. The Bengals could and should be working on a deal for Shayne as we speak, but if it doesn?t get done before Feb 27th, then he would be the guy who has to get it. Keep in mind, this negotiation started before last season. Shayne has said on record that he wanted to get a deal done before the season started and that didn?t happen so I?m guessing that talks are still ongoing. I know one thing, Shayne has great numbers and he will want to be either the top or amongst the top paid kickers in the NFL. So paying one one your best players 2.5 million dollars for one season with the franchise tag is a bargain. Plus it gives you time to still negotiate after free agency starts. And it keeps money free to address other needs on the team. [b][/b]Might have been mentioned earlier on here somewhere Doc just said the rumor is they offered him 4 yrs. 25 mil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='Mobster' post='746992' date='Feb 16 2009, 06:41 PM']I don't mind people who don't share opinions either. But I do mind stupidity. And I don't mind it being called what it it. Stupid people usually get offended when stupidity is pointed out...just because it hits a nerve.[/quote] joepong the MOBSTER.. how clever.... i suppose stupidity.. is not masking your Ip address when your such a worthless human being you have multiple active usernames on a message board you cnat manage to stay un-banned on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 From John Thornton's blog . . . [quote][size=5][b]Score one for APB[/b][/size] February 16th, 2009 | Bengals I hate bragging but I did predict the Bengals would tag Shayne Graham on this very site. I’m sitting here in the airport in Denver waiting to go back to Cincinnati and I heard the news on Twitter from C Trent and Joe Reedy. Now I will work on my next prediction……drafting Missouri WR Jeremy Maclin. I posted his highlights a few days ago in an earlier post.[/quote] [url="http://www.allproblogger.com/?p=581"]http://www.allproblogger.com/?p=581[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 I blame both TJ and Chad for not wanting to come in during the off season and run routes with Carson. I heard somewhere the Ravens are interested in TJ, I think? If TJ becomes a Raven, I hope the Defense lays-him-out the first time he goes over the middle. (However, if I only get one wish, then I hope we layout Hines Ward.) I wonder what Chad and Carson are thinking about TJ not becoming the franchise tag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble In the Jungle Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 [img]http://www.blacknerdcomedy.com/wp-content/uploads/flavorflav.jpg[/img] wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='GoBengals' post='747010' date='Feb 16 2009, 07:47 PM']joepong the MOBSTER.. how clever.... i suppose stupidity.. is not masking your Ip address when your such a worthless human being you have multiple active usernames on a message board you cnat manage to stay un-banned on.[/quote] not that i necessarily agree with the banning thing, but that's just too funny! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiliMVP Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='Rick' post='747012' date='Feb 16 2009, 08:49 PM']I blame both TJ and Chad for not wanting to come in during the off season and run routes with Carson. I heard somewhere the Ravens are interested in TJ, I think? If TJ becomes a Raven, I hope the Defense lays-him-out the first time he goes over the middle. (However, if I only get one wish, then I hope we layout Hines Ward.) I wonder what Chad and Carson are thinking about TJ not becoming the franchise tag?[/quote] I really doubt the Ravens sign any free agents other than their own. Basically the entire foundation of their team are free agents: Ray Lewis, Bart Scott, Terrell Suggs, Jason Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='Rick' post='747012' date='Feb 16 2009, 07:49 PM']I blame both TJ and Chad for not wanting to come in during the off season and run routes with Carson. I heard somewhere the Ravens are interested in TJ, I think? If TJ becomes a Raven, I hope the Defense lays-him-out the first time he goes over the middle. (However, if I only get one wish, then I hope we layout Hines Ward.) I wonder what Chad and Carson are thinking about TJ not becoming the franchise tag?[/quote] get real. if the steelers, the ravens, and the rest of the tough defenses couldn't lay him out, basically throughout his entire career, why in the world would you think anyone on this defense would be capable of do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='bengaled' post='747017' date='Feb 16 2009, 09:03 PM']get real. if the steelers, the ravens, and the rest of the tough defenses couldn't lay him out, basically throughout his entire career, why in the world would you think anyone on this defense would be capable of do so?[/quote] That's true! I cannot argue with your post. Our defense laying him out? What was I thinking? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='CJandRudiJ' post='746971' date='Feb 16 2009, 05:27 PM']Also, Chad claims he'll show up whenever they want him to, and Im sure caldwell simpson and henry will as well. It will be great to have our top 4 WRs actually working with Carson for all the voluntary camps and stuff. Im excited to see what these 4 can do. Its time we moved away from 2 guys being our only option and having 4 or so guys that will hopefully all be able to contribute in their own way. Chances are we arent gonna have 2 1000 yard wideouts like we did in 07, but I definitely think Chad could get back to like 1300, with the other 3 being somewhere between 400-800 yards each.[/quote] If Simpson comes close to sniffing 400 yards in a season...when he can't run a fucking 5-yard route correct after 16 games...I'll buy the beer (1 round only however ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='Rick' post='747021' date='Feb 16 2009, 08:12 PM']That's true! I cannot argue with your post. Our defense laying him out? What was I thinking? LOL[/quote] you gave me a laugh and i just couldn't resist, rick. besides, it was this guy's fault :devil: he was sitting on my shoulder advising me all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='Le Tigre' post='747022' date='Feb 16 2009, 08:15 PM']If Simpson comes close to sniffing 400 yards in a season...when he can't run a fucking 5-yard route correct after 16 games...I'll buy the beer (1 round only however ).[/quote] you dont have a clue what your talking about, and have zer knowledge of simpsons abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='Le Tigre' post='747022' date='Feb 16 2009, 09:15 PM']If Simpson comes close to sniffing 400 yards in a season...when he can't run a fucking 5-yard route correct after 16 games...I'll buy the beer (1 round only however ).[/quote] Throw him out on the field, keep carson healthy, and I guarantee he will get 400 yards. By the way Im not arguing with you cause Im not sure if it was said or not, but who exactly he cant run a 5 yard route correct? All I heard recently is that Marvin was saying good things about him and that JT I think said that he dominated in practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='bengaled' post='747017' date='Feb 16 2009, 08:03 PM']get real. if the steelers, the ravens, and the rest of the tough defenses couldn't lay him out, basically throughout his entire career, why in the world would you think anyone on this defense would be capable of do so?[/quote] TJ has been knocked the fuck out many many times. To his credit, he is tough and concerned about making the play but he has taken abuse because he wasn't concerned with protecting himself. Ultimately it makes dumping a bunch of money into him a concern. The guy is tough as nails but he has taken abuse because of it. Even the abuse caught up to the Great James Brooks it certainly can catch up to TJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='Le Tigre' post='747022' date='Feb 16 2009, 08:15 PM']If Simpson comes close to sniffing 400 yards in a season...when he can't run a fucking 5-yard route correct after 16 games...I'll buy the beer (1 round only however ).[/quote] Strangely enough people used to shit all over TJ in the same way. Pussmanzadeh, anyone remember that? I'd say anyone claiming they thought TJ would be anything more than a 5th WR after 2003 is full of shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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