T.J. Narrows Down Choices

[USN Bengal]

[quote name='bengaled' post='752075' date='Mar 2 2009, 07:38 PM']the rivers remark was, and i should have never posted it. i lashed out because the comment i responded to was equally out of line, IMO. anger of the moment thing and i officially apologize. not a good day, just lost my favorite player.[/quote]

Shit happens, we all lose it once in a while.

Except me that is.....

[JBandJoeyV]

Jamie, I dont think anyone really thinks TJ was a cancer...he said some things that I think were stupid but that shit happens.

(Jamie this isnt to you but others) I just dont get the people that come on here, bitch about Mike Brown, bitch about half the players on our team, bitch about every little thing we do...if rooting for this team is so hard for some people then seriously do yourself a favor and everyone else and stop. Win or lose, I enjoy rooting for the bengals and im gonna be excited about next season even if we dont add another guy to the roster. Will I get frustrated sometimes with some of the things we do? Yeah, but you will see that for any team.

The people that come on here and bitch non stop, how can you actually enjoy rooting for this team? And if you cant enjoy it then stop, cause this is an entertainment industry, if you arent entertained stop watching and coming on here and bitching. Its like going to a movie that you dont like time after time. Bitching about mike brown isnt gonna do anything, so i think its pointless.

Just my 2 cents though, not trying to piss anyone off, just curious as to why some people that seem like they hate being a bengals fan continue to be one.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='CJandRudiJ' post='752230' date='Mar 2 2009, 11:16 PM']Jamie, I dont think anyone really thinks TJ was a cancer...he said some things that I think were stupid but that shit happens.

(Jamie this isnt to you but others) I just dont get the people that come on here, bitch about Mike Brown, bitch about half the players on our team, bitch about every little thing we do...if rooting for this team is so hard for some people then seriously do yourself a favor and everyone else and stop. Win or lose, I enjoy rooting for the bengals and im gonna be excited about next season even if we dont add another guy to the roster. Will I get frustrated sometimes with some of the things we do? Yeah, but you will see that for any team.

The people that come on here and bitch non stop, how can you actually enjoy rooting for this team? And if you cant enjoy it then stop, cause this is an entertainment industry, if you arent entertained stop watching and coming on here and bitching. Its like going to a movie that you dont like time after time. Bitching about mike brown isnt gonna do anything, so i think its pointless.

Just my 2 cents though, not trying to piss anyone off, just curious as to why some people that seem like they hate being a bengals fan continue to be one.[/quote]



kind of what I'm trying to get at in the other thread. We all see the faults the organization has in what they do, but why get so worked up about it? You know about them going in, and at the end of the day does it really matter all that much?


I just don't get why some come here just to complain for the sake of complaining (or moreso why some come just to try and piss others off), or why many make false assumptions and go off before taking a second to actually analyze a situation.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='CJandRudiJ' post='752230' date='Mar 2 2009, 11:16 PM']Jamie, I dont think anyone really thinks TJ was a cancer...he said some things that I think were stupid but that shit happens.

(Jamie this isnt to you but others) I just dont get the people that come on here, bitch about Mike Brown, bitch about half the players on our team, bitch about every little thing we do...if rooting for this team is so hard for some people then seriously do yourself a favor and everyone else and stop. Win or lose, I enjoy rooting for the bengals and im gonna be excited about next season even if we dont add another guy to the roster. Will I get frustrated sometimes with some of the things we do? Yeah, but you will see that for any team.

The people that come on here and bitch non stop, how can you actually enjoy rooting for this team? And if you cant enjoy it then stop, cause this is an entertainment industry, if you arent entertained stop watching and coming on here and bitching. Its like going to a movie that you dont like time after time. Bitching about mike brown isnt gonna do anything, so i think its pointless.

Just my 2 cents though, not trying to piss anyone off, just curious as to why some people that seem like they hate being a bengals fan continue to be one.[/quote]


Nobody here hates being a bengals fan, if they did they wouldnt be posting on this board. What people hate is having no hope for a team they do love.

[BengalBacker]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='751958' date='Mar 2 2009, 06:08 PM']I'll try and not let my frustration for losing TJ be applied to you cockbags,
but fuck you both with the good damn Homer, and higher threshold for
losing bullshit.

I am so fucking sick of motherfuckers acting like all they have to do is
call me some fucking name and it discounts my opinion. And I am really
sick of motherfuckers acting like they want this team to win more than I do.

Seriously, fuck you both.

:weeew:

I am glad I was able to hold back . . .[/quote]


[quote name='oldschooler' post='752005' date='Mar 2 2009, 06:27 PM']Believe me, I did hold back.

And I don't think I went to any level lower than you or Ed.

I would say a "higher threshold for losing" means you want them to win
more than others here. What else is it supposed to mean?

And sure I am optimistic, blind though?

And laugh all you want. Mike Brown has assembled talent.
You just turned because he didn't trade up to grab Sedrick Ellis.
And even though it appears to have been a good move, you still
act like he is stupid.[/quote]

:applaud: :applaud: :applaud:


[quote name='Jamie_B' post='752013' date='Mar 2 2009, 06:39 PM']Fine, I meant it. You defend this team more than anyone Ive ever seen. At some point I would have hopped that the constant losing would wake you up to the reality that Mike Brown is not a good GM, hell he's not even an average GM. How many years of this shit do you want to keep up before your willing to put it on him and not say something that is mind bogglingly stupid? How many coaches? How many Ocoords, or Dcoodrds or players do we have to go through before people get that there is one root to this problem and at the very least stop defending him? That has nothing to do with Sedrick Ellis, Fuck Sedrick Ellis. It has to do with the complete lack of willingness by the front office to be proactive in going after players that could change things. Year after year, season after season we have to hope and wait for them to get their shit together and then we get garbage from Hobson about raiding the B level guys. Just once I would like this team to add an A level guy that can change things. Is that too much to ask? Im sorry but 19 years of this shit is beyond absurd and Im not going to defend the person who is at the root of that.[/quote]



So what you're saying is Mike Brown sucks? The first million times I heard that it didn't really register, but I get it now.

Oldschooler always defends his opinions with facts, stats and logic. He may be a homer, and you may not agree with his perspective, but he isn't blind.

[quote name='oldschooler' post='752146' date='Mar 2 2009, 09:06 PM']I don't really feel like turning this into ANOTHER Mike Brown thread/debate.

And like I said, the move that turned you, was a good one. So how does that make sense?
I mean seriously, a good move pushed you over the edge. Think about that for a second.

And defending this team in no way, shape, form or fashion means I like losing
anymore than some person that bitches all the time, or one that bitches period.

There are enough of your type here, even though you are more mild than most.
But if we all were like you, then this would be just like every other Bengals board.

As far as the "mind bogglingly stupid", what have I said? All I know is that I am
still holding back, and really shouldn't be after a statement like that.




I will show some restraint here.

I have thick skin, but some fans like you are always acting like because
I don't get on here and bitch with every keystroke, that that somehow
means my opinion is something that should be ignored, because I am just some homer.
I am not blind. And I never have called you ANY name. So for you to act like I am
"getting what is coming to me" is bullshit.

I have went out of my way to try and keep from making comments
like this for a while now. But I am really sick of people calling me
a blind homer, like it is some derogatory term.

Kenneth said it best. "I know you and I are on different sides of the fence, but the fence is still Orange and Black."


I just wish people would stop acting like I am so bad because I am optimistic about a team, that they
can't seem to be optimistic about. I think that says more about you/them, than it does me.
But whatever though.[/quote]

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='752181' date='Mar 2 2009, 09:08 PM']Im gonna go out on a pretty strong limb and say that it was Paul and not Mike that had the influence in picking those players.[/quote]



That limb isn't strong at all. I just posted an article not that long ago
where Forrest Gregg said that Mike Brown was the GM for 2 Super Bowl
teams. That he made all the decisions, and that he should be credited
for it. He also went on to defend Brown in some other ways too.



[quote]It was a general statement to all people saying such it.[/quote]

It was a statement you directed towards me.



[quote]He signed with a team that was in the superbowl just a few years ago.[/quote]

Whoopty shit. The Raiders and Bucs were in the Super Bowl a fews ago too.



[quote]I dont think they lack talent either but they have been ravaged by career ending injuries and stupidity that took a huge chunk of the roster and they havent done enough to replace them. They deserve the criticism they get because of that.[/quote]



They should be criticized for being ravaged by injuries?
I can understand people bitching about some of the picks.
But I think it is on the player to seize the opportunity given to him.


[quote]It's just that its always something. Its either the injuries or the fact that they are young (which by the way when we dont replace the players we lose with vets the team just gets younger which makes that a convient excuse that can always be used) ect..ect... The bottom line is the FO doesnt do enough.[/quote]

Oh bullshit. This was one of the older teams in the NFL as recent as 2006.




[quote]Jesus. I dont give a fuck about Cedrick Ellis, he isnt a bengal that is over and done. Its about year after year after year the lack of movement to be proactive from this front office.[/quote]

So you don't think locking up their players while they are still player under their Rookie
contracts, is being proactive?

Anyway, you went on and on about if they didn't move up to get Ellis,
that you were going to go off. They didn't, you did, and you continue to do so.
So please don't tell me that isn't why the way you are. If they had traded up
for him, you would have gotten your wish, and couldn't go off on your "they aren't
proactive" tirades.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='BengalBacker' post='752267' date='Mar 3 2009, 03:43 AM']:applaud: :applaud: :applaud:[/quote]


Thank you, thank you. Hold your applause and just throw money.



[quote]

So what you're saying is Mike Brown sucks? The first million times I heard that it didn't really register, but I get it now.

Oldschooler always defends his opinions with facts, stats and logic. He may be a homer, and you may not agree with his perspective, but he isn't blind.[/quote]


hahaha @ the "The first million times I heard that it didn't really register, but I get it now. "


And thanks again. I try to use facts and stats whenever possible.
That isnt't enough for some people though. I just think it is funny they
ignore the facts and stats, then call me blind.

[Jamie_B]

Im not going to continue to wast my time with this, you've got it in your head that this is all about Sedrick Ellis and it wont matter how many times your told otherwise youll believe it. Forget it.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='752310' date='Mar 3 2009, 08:06 AM']Im not going to continue to wast my time with this, you've got it in your head that this is all about Sedrick Ellis and it wont matter how many times your told otherwise youll believe it. Forget it.[/quote]



Sorry. My bad. I guess I was wrong. Even though I watched you
work yourself up into a lather about what you would do if they
didn't do whatever it takes to draft Ellis. Then they didn't.
And you turned.

I guess it was that 7-9 season in 2007 that did it? Or has it been
the 46-49-1 record since 2003 that did it?

Either way, sorry again. My bad. And sorry to waste your time.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='752310' date='Mar 3 2009, 09:06 AM']Im not going to continue to wast my time with this, you've got it in your head that this is all about Sedrick Ellis and it wont matter how many times your told otherwise youll believe it. Forget it.[/quote]



kind of like how you've got it in your head that anyone who doesn't bash MB whenever they can is a homer?

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='752316' date='Mar 3 2009, 09:16 AM']Sorry. My bad. I guess I was wrong. Even though I watched you
work yourself up into a lather about what you would do if they
didn't do whatever it takes to draft Ellis. Then they didn't.
And you turned.

I guess it was that 7-9 season in 2007 that did it? Or has it been
the 46-49-1 record since 2003 that did it?

Either way, sorry again. My bad. And sorry to waste your time.[/quote]


Straw that broke the camels back as they say. But like I said its not about him, that was just the final straw for me. Reguardless believe what you want Im not going to keep arguing with you.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='752318' date='Mar 3 2009, 08:18 AM']Straw that broke the camels back as they say. But like I said its not about him, that was just the final straw for me. Reguardless believe what you want Im not going to keep arguing with you.[/quote]


Hmmmm, I could have sworn I said that "straw that broke your back"
turned out to be the right decision. They got 2 very promising players
for the Defense for the price of one. Yet, you still let it be the straw.
Again, it was a good move that broke your back. And that somehow
makes sense to you.

And I am not arguing with you. Just trying to get you to see something
I noticed a long time ago.

[TheBeaverHunter]

[quote]That limb isn't strong at all. I just posted an article not that long ago
where Forrest Gregg said that Mike Brown was the GM for 2 Super Bowl
teams. That he made all the decisions, and that he should be credited
for it. He also went on to defend Brown in some other ways too.[/quote]

This isn't the 1980's, the game has evolved and so has the logistics. Mike Brown has not! We are trying to field a competitive team in 2009 based on 1980 thinking. No matter which way you turn it, Mike Brown has failed at running a successful NFL team.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='752322' date='Mar 3 2009, 09:23 AM']Hmmmm, I could have sworn I said that "straw that broke your back"
turned out to be the right decision. They got 2 very promising players
for the Defense for the price of one. Yet, you still let it be the straw.
Again, it was a good move that broke your back. And that somehow
makes sense to you.

And I am not arguing with you. Just trying to get you to see something
I noticed a long time ago.[/quote]


Right or wrong move it shows a lack of willingness to go get the guy that they want (and lets not pretend for a moment that had he been there we would have still taken Rivers), its a fundamental flaw with the orginization, they let things happen to them rather than making things happen. That move or lack of it just broke my back as they say, reguardless of how it turned out, I'd like to think they are willing to go get their guys that will change things, they havent shown they are.

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' post='752323' date='Mar 3 2009, 09:24 AM']This isn't the 1980's, the game has evolved and so has the logistics. Mike Brown has not! We are trying to field a competitive team in 2009 based on 1980 thinking. No matter which way you turn it, Mike Brown has failed at running a successful NFL team.[/quote]


Yep.

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='752325' date='Mar 4 2009, 12:28 AM']Right or wrong move it shows a lack of willingness to go get the guy that they want (and lets not pretend for a moment that had he been there we would have still taken Rivers), its a fundamental flaw with the orginization, they let things happen to them rather than making things happen. That move or lack of it just broke my back as they say, reguardless of how it turned out, I'd like to think they are willing to go get their guys that will change things, they havent shown they are.[/quote]
Could be worse. The guy you wanted turned out to be, well... meh. The guy I wanted won DROY, just as I predicted on draft day.

just sayin.

[TonyAPBTx]

If anyone that isn't a Bengals fan asks me how the Bengals are going to do I'll tell them 16-0 and the Super Bowl, just because I'm a "homer" like that.

However, when I come here I expect to be able to debate the Bengals with a realistic perspective.

It isn't a secret and you absolutely can not defend in any way, shape or form the abilities of Mike Brown as a GM. They are terrible and history has proven it over 20 years.

He has the worst record in every single sport in America. He is also competing in the sport that has the most competitive balance of any of the big sports. This is the definition of failure.

I hope things have changed and we are moving in the right direction. This off-season feels a lot like a lot of other off-seasons though.

I don't understand this whole two sides thing. There isn't really two sides. The Bengals are the team we all root for and are fans of. However, we aren't the fans of the most accomplished team and we all know that. Trying to act otherwise is just weird. It also is well known that the owner of the Bengals has presided over the worst stretch of performances for any professional team in the history of sports. There isn't two sides to that, it is what it is.

Injuries, coaches, etc aren't the reason for 20 years of failure.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='752325' date='Mar 3 2009, 09:28 AM']Right or wrong move it shows a lack of willingness to go get the guy that they want (and lets not pretend for a moment that had he been there we would have still taken Rivers), its a fundamental flaw with the orginization, they let things happen to them rather than making things happen. That move or lack of it just broke my back as they say, reguardless of how it turned out, I'd like to think they are willing to go get their guys that will change things, they havent shown they are.

Yep.[/quote]


you have this assumption that they wanted Ellis enough to give up a 3rd rounder. They clearly didn't want to. Yes they wanted him, but at what cost? They wanted TJ too, but again at what cost?


Let me ask you, do you think they made the right choice in not giving TJ they amount of money that he wanted, and ended up getting? Forget what they've done in the past and just look at this single situation and answer.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='752330' date='Mar 3 2009, 09:39 AM']you have this assumption that they wanted Ellis enough to give up a 3rd rounder. They clearly didn't want to. Yes they wanted him, but at what cost? They wanted TJ too, but again at what cost?


Let me ask you, do you think they made the right choice in not giving TJ they amount of money that he wanted, and ended up getting? Forget what they've done in the past and just look at this single situation and answer.[/quote]


Honstly Im ok with letting TJ go, and think we should have just moved on to begin so that we could use the money to sign....oh wait.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='752333' date='Mar 3 2009, 09:43 AM'][b]Honstly Im ok with letting TJ go,[/b] and think we should have just moved on to begin so that we could use the money to sign....oh wait.[/quote]


so you're admitting the front office did something right?


That's another step in recovery my friend.




So if you agree that TJ shouldn't have been signed, what exactly set you off yesterday?

[oldschooler]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' post='752323' date='Mar 3 2009, 08:24 AM']This isn't the 1980's, the game has evolved and so has the logistics. Mike Brown has not! We are trying to field a competitive team in 2009 based on 1980 thinking. No matter which way you turn it, Mike Brown has failed at running a successful NFL team.[/quote]


This isn't the 80's? I guess I [i]should[/i] cut my mullet off then.



And the Bengals have been 46-49-1 since 2003, despite the career
ending injuries, injuries overall, and suspensions. This all happened
while trying to rebuild. Luck has something to do with it. Laugh, scoff,
whatever. But luck plays a role in life and in sports.


[quote name='Jamie_B' post='752325' date='Mar 3 2009, 08:28 AM']Right or wrong move it shows a lack of willingness to go get the guy that they want (and lets not pretend for a moment that had he been there we would have still taken Rivers), its a fundamental flaw with the orginization, they let things happen to them rather than making things happen. That move or lack of it just broke my back as they say, reguardless of how it turned out, I'd like to think they are willing to go get their guys that will change things, they havent shown they are.[/quote]

They wanted a lot of guys. Only YOU were set on one guy.
And the guy they got, allowed them to grab another guy
at the same position of the guy you wanted, and he had
a pretty good rookie season and shows a lot of promise.


So your logic makes absolutely no sense.

[quote name='TonyAPBTx' post='752328' date='Mar 3 2009, 08:36 AM']If anyone that isn't a Bengals fan asks me how the Bengals are going to do I'll tell them 16-0 and the Super Bowl, just because I'm a "homer" like that.

However, when I come here I expect to be able to debate the Bengals with a realistic perspective.

It isn't a secret and you absolutely can not defend in any way, shape or form the abilities of Mike Brown as a GM. They are terrible and history has proven it over 20 years.

He has the worst record in every single sport in America. He is also competing in the sport that has the most competitive balance of any of the big sports. This is the definition of failure.

I hope things have changed and we are moving in the right direction. This off-season feels a lot like a lot of other off-seasons though.

I don't understand this whole two sides thing. There isn't really two sides. The Bengals are the team we all root for and are fans of. However, we aren't the fans of the most accomplished team and we all know that. Trying to act otherwise is just weird. It also is well known that the owner of the Bengals has presided over the worst stretch of performances for any professional team in the history of sports. There isn't two sides to that, it is what it is.

Injuries, coaches, etc aren't the reason for 20 years of failure.[/quote]



I am not going back 20 year. I am talking about the new era since Marvin has been hired.

And I am not acting like we are the most accomplished team. I am defending the fact
that they aren't, and haven't been the shittiest team for quite some time now.

[bengaled]

why is it when anyone attempts to discuss the lack of performance from our 2nd round pick, simpson, many are quick to say we should let the process play out and let him gain experience, which is correct and as it should be. yet when we discuss rivers, mayo, sims, or especially sedrick ellis the die is cast and their futures are already set in stone. the apparent logic is... we somehow know with complete certainty that rivers and sims will be automatic future studs, successes, just as we know that ellis will never measure up to his draft value and will be a bust. this double standard goes on all the time, and i find it rather hilarious. oh well, carry on.