Bengals softening stance on Palmer? Raiders pushing ‘hard’ for Palmer trade

[Tigris]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318443764' post='1044296']


Dont move the ball. You're contention was that Carson's quitting would be factored in. I completely disagree. It comes down to if he can still play at a winning level or not. That's it, all other talk is nonsense.

And even so, it doesnt mean its going to effect their job performance at the new job. Sometimes all that it takes for a person to preform is a change of scenery.




I get it, he broke up with you and your bitter about that. But stop factoring it into the discussion about if he could be traded or not.
[/quote]

I wasn't debating whether or not Carson is tradable, of course he is. I was trying to show you how I thought your thinking was wrong on what an employer looks at when considering hiring someone for a position in their company.

For the record, I'd love to see Carson rot in California. The only way I'd trade him is for a high draft pick. If I don't get it, oh well. Also, It's not because he was a Bengal, it's because he quit on a team he always took the blame for in public. He acted like a leader, but he wasn't. He left because he has no spine. If Drew Brees did the same thing, I'd love to see him without an NFL job too. Carson just happens to play for my favorite team. He was my favorite player for who I thought he was, not who he really is.

[oldschooler]

[b][url="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8230fc44/article/trading-winds-deals-that-should-get-done-before-deadline"]Trades that should get done before the deadline[/url][/b]

[b]By Gil Brandt, NFL.COM[/b]

[b]Bengals send Palmer to Seahawks[/b]

Andy Dalton's development has made Caron Palmer more expendable. Palmer played for Pete Carroll at USC, so there's already a working relationship, and he would be able to help a team lacking a quarterback potentially win the NFC West.

In turn, Seattle would send receiver Doug Baldwin, the undrafted free agent who is off to a great start, and draft choices. The quality of the picks would be based on Palmer's performance over the next two years. I'm not talking about numbers here, I mean wins and losses. If Seattle makes the playoffs in either year and Palmer starts 50 percent of the games, Cincinnati could get a first rounder. If he doesn't start much, Seattle could potentially only give up a third-rounder.

This trade would give Seattle a QB for some years to come, remember Palmer is only 31. Baldwin gives Cincinnati a good young receiver to pair with Dalton and A.J. Green.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1318445352' post='1044310']

I wasn't debating whether or not Carson is tradable, of course he is. I was trying to show you how I thought your thinking was wrong on what an employer looks at when considering hiring someone for a position in their company.

For the record, I'd love to see Carson rot in California. The only way I'd trade him is for a high draft pick. If I don't get it, oh well. Also, It's not because he was a Bengal, it's because he quit on a team he always took the blame for in public. He acted like a leader, but he wasn't. He left because he has no spine. If Drew Brees did the same thing, I'd love to see him without an NFL job too. Carson just happens to play for my favorite team. He was my favorite player for who I thought he was, not who he really is.
[/quote]


Except for my thinking to be wrong you would have to show me where a guy that requested a trade didnt find another team because solely because he wanted out and not because of lack of talent. When you do that we can talk, until you do stop infusing your bitterness over it with this.

[Tigris]

I'm not bitter at all. I think he's getting what he deserves. Carson Palmer doesn't make me go home and torture insects.

[AZBengal]

Carson Palmer made the decision to retire. It was his choice and his alone. End of story. Stop this ridiculous trade talk. It's not going to happen. Not sure why people are so excited about the third or fourth round draft pick that we would get for him anyway.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318439463' post='1044249']
That's because your thinking is tainted because of being a fan.

[/quote]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318441698' post='1044266']
I dont care good or bad about him anymore and want to do what's best for the team and not getting any value out of him is not that.
[/quote]


How in the fuck does what you say make sense to anyone but you?

"Your thinking is tainted because you're a fan."

Then you're asked why your thinking isn't tainted, and that's what you come up with?

Carson quit, did he not? Answer that please.

Getting just anything for Carson is not in the best interest of the team.
Getting what you feel he is worth and no less, is.

You just don't let players quit after collecting the bulk of their contract
and then give them their way for whatever and say it helped the team.

If I was commenting on this same situation about another player on another team
I would feel the same way. Sure it being Carson and the Bengals amplifies things
some. But not so much that I would let bitterness get in the way of making the team better.


I have said it before, if you can rape a team for Carson you do it. If you can't, you let him
retire. This is a situation HE chose. This is a situation HE put the team in. They don't have
to trade him to get better. They already appear to be better without him.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1318447289' post='1044319']




How in the fuck does what you say make sense to anyone but you?

"Your thinking is tainted because you're a fan."

Then you're asked why your thinking isn't tainted, and that's what you come up with?

Carson quit, did he not? Answer that please.

Getting just anything for Carson is not in the best interest of the team.
Getting what you feel he is worth and no less, is.

You just don't let players quit after collecting the bulk of their contract
and then give them their way for whatever and say it helped the team.

If I was commenting on this same situation about another player on another team
I would feel the same way. Sure it being Carson and the Bengals amplifies things
some. But not so much that I would let bitterness get in the way of making the team better.


I have said it before, if you can rape a team for Carson you do it. If you can't, you let him
retire. This is a situation HE chose. This is a situation HE put the team in. They don't have
to trade him to get better. They already appear to be better without him.
[/quote]


Letting him rot does not get any value for him, its pretty simple.

Letting him rot because he broke up with you and not getting anything for him at all is being bitter and does nothing for the team you claim to be a fan of.

[Bgal]

It would be nice to get a player for him... a decent running back or a decent OG. Does Carson even want to be traded at this point? Maybe he wants to retire for real. He's only 31 and he's had serious injuries and plays scared. I know he said trade me back in January but people change their minds and he might be super happy just hanging with his family.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bgal' timestamp='1318447631' post='1044324']
It would be nice to get a player for him... a decent running back or a decent OG. Does Carson even want to be traded at this point? Maybe he wants to retire for real. He's only 31 one he's had serious injuries and plays scared. I know he said trade back back in January but maybe change their minds and he might be super happy just hanging with his family.
[/quote]


He's been working out throwing with Housh and hasnt filed retirement papers, I think its safe to assume he wants to play, just not here.

[Le Tigre]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1318445395' post='1044311']
[b][url="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8230fc44/article/trading-winds-deals-that-should-get-done-before-deadline"]Trades that should get done before the deadline[/url][/b]

[b]By Gil Brandt, NFL.COM[/b]

[b]Bengals send Palmer to Seahawks[/b]

Andy Dalton's development has made Caron Palmer more expendable. Palmer played for Pete Carroll at USC, so there's already a working relationship, and he would be able to help a team lacking a quarterback potentially win the NFC West.

In turn, Seattle would send receiver Doug Baldwin, the undrafted free agent who is off to a great start, and draft choices. The quality of the picks would be based on Palmer's performance over the next two years. I'm not talking about numbers here, I mean wins and losses. If Seattle makes the playoffs in either year and Palmer starts 50 percent of the games, Cincinnati could get a first rounder. If he doesn't start much, Seattle could potentially only give up a third-rounder.

This trade would give Seattle a QB for some years to come, remember Palmer is only 31. Baldwin gives Cincinnati a good young receiver to pair with Dalton and A.J. Green.
[/quote]

Comedy at its finest. Thanks Gil.

[sois]

[quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1318445035' post='1044308']


your love of the perfect football name cracks me up, sois.
[/quote]

hahahhahaah I had fears for Andy Dalton based on Joey Harrington. Andrew Dalton sounds more sturdy. Bill Simmons agreed with my idea, he said Joey Harrington would have been much better if he went by Joe.

Whatever Dalton achieves, I will think he would have gone higher if he was Andrew.


[quote name='Jeb' timestamp='1318444891' post='1044306']

I don't believe he will be back, ...Carson is just as stubborn as Mike.
[/quote]

Carson's stubbornness would best be served by getting his year of service so him coming back week 10 would solidify his stance. I think he will do what Logan Mankins did last year.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318447498' post='1044321']


Letting him rot does not get any value for him, its pretty simple.

Letting him rot because he broke up with you and not getting anything for him at all is being bitter and does nothing for the team you claim to be a fan of.
[/quote]



Sure it does. It lets everyone know you're not going to take my MILLIONS and then think
you run the show. You don't call the shots. I do. You want to quit, quit. But don't think I'm
going to trade you just because you threatened to quit. If he rots it was his chose.
No one told him he had to quit.

The Bengals never got anything for Pollack, Thurman, Henry, Levi, Willie, Rudi and a host of others.
Just because Carson quit doesn't make him anymore special.


Getting just anything doesn't make the team better anyway. Did drafting a player that hasn't contributed
in any way make the team better?

And can you stop with the "broke up with you" shit. He wanted to play for another team
because he is a pussy whipped motherfucker.


"Oh, I got booed and it made my Wife mad!"

"Oh, someone threw trash on my lawn!"


Great, good luck in your retirement.
And thanks for making MB draft a QB with some heart.

See, I'm not bitter.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1318448201' post='1044328']
Carson's stubbornness would best be served by getting his year of service so him coming back week 10 would solidify his stance. I think he will do what Logan Mankins did last year.
[/quote]



If Carson came back, the Bengals have a 2 week roster exemption on him anyway.

[mongo]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318443580' post='1044294']


If you can find me one 32 year old QB that took a year off and got traded for lets say a what would have been first day pick (rounds 1-3) then I will change my opinion on this.[/quote]

Your argument was that it is crazy to think Carson could be worth more in April. I have clearly made a non-crazy argument that shows Carson is worth more in the spring. Simple supply and demand indicates Carson will be worth more when several teams have an interest in the spring, than when there may be one team willing to take a flyer on him right now... I'm not going to jump through hoops on some tangent just so you can find an argument to try and win.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1318448405' post='1044329']



Sure it does. It lets everyone know you're not going to take my MILLIONS and then think
you run the show. You don't call the shots. I do. You want to quit, quit. But don't think I'm
going to trade you just because you threatened to quit. If he rots it was his chose.
No one told him he had to quit.

The Bengals never got anything for Pollack, Thurman, Henry, Levi, Willie, Rudi and a host of others.
Just because Carson quit doesn't make him anymore special.


Getting just anything doesn't make the team better anyway. Did drafting a player that hasn't contributed
in any way make the team better?

And can you stop with the "broke up with you" shit. He wanted to play for another team
because he is a pussy whipped motherfucker.


"Oh, I got booed and it made my Wife mad!"

"Oh, someone threw trash on my lawn!"


Great, good luck in your retirement.
And thanks for making MB draft a QB with some heart.

See, I'm not bitter.
[/quote]


First at you not being bitter.

Second a big at you using players that were hurt or suspended out of the league. (or in Rudi's case a FA, or Henry's death.)

Finally you get the best value you can get, it does not make the team better by getting nothing out of him.

[quote name='mongo' timestamp='1318449186' post='1044335']
Your argument was that it is crazy to think Carson could be worth more in April. I have clearly made a non-crazy argument that shows Carson is worth more in the spring. Simple supply and demand indicates Carson will be worth more when several teams have an interest in the spring, than when there may be one team willing to take a flyer on him right now... I'm not going to jump through hoops on some tangent just so you can find an argument to try and win.
[/quote]


Except that your product is sitting on the shelf getting older and you have to ask yourself if anyone will want to play with an old toy.

[sois]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1318448487' post='1044330']

If Carson came back, the Bengals have a 2 week roster exemption on him anyway.
[/quote]

What does that have to do with anything? I just think he will come back whenever he has to in order to get his year of service.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318449260' post='1044336']


First at you not being bitter.[/quote]


I'm not bitter. I'm all for trading him.

If the Price is Right, bitch.




[quote]Second a big at you using players that were hurt or suspended out of the league. (or in Rudi's case a FA, or Henry's death.)[/quote]



I was mentioning players that the Bengals lost for whatever reason and got nothing in return.
It happens. Teams move on. Just because Carson quit doesn't mean that team has to accept
ANYFUCKINGTHING for him. I know I wouldn't just take ANYFUCKINGTHING for him.


[quote]Finally you get the best value you can get, it does not make the team better by getting nothing out of him.[/quote]

I think it is beyond asinine for you to act like MB HAS to trade him for ANYTHING and say that makes the team better.
Really? Did drafting Coffman or Ghee in the 3rd round make this team better?

[oldschooler]

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1318449509' post='1044340']
What does that have to do with anything? I just think he will come back whenever he has to in order to get his year of service.
[/quote]


It has to do with he can't just show up get an accrued season in week 10. Which is what you said.


Anyway, he's not coming back to this team, in this City.

[sois]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1318449600' post='1044342']



It has to do with he can't just show up get an accrued season in week 10. Which is what you said.


Anyway, he's not coming back to this team, in this City.
[/quote]
OK He will come back week eight. Whatever.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1318449530' post='1044341']


I'm not bitter. I'm all for trading him.

If the Price is Right, bitch.


[/quote]

Or get nothing at all huh Bob? I guess you dont win the showcase showdown then.


[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1318449530' post='1044341']
I was mentioning players that the Bengals lost for whatever reason and got nothing in return.
It happens. Teams move on. Just because Carson quit doesn't mean that team has to accept
ANYFUCKINGTHING for him. I know I wouldn't just take ANYFUCKINGTHING for him.
Finally you get the best value you can get, it does not make the team better by getting nothing out of him.

I think it is beyond asinine for you to act like MB HAS to trade him for ANYTHING and say that makes the team better.
Really? Did drafting Coffman or Ghee in the 3rd round make this team better?
[/quote]


ANYFUCKINGTHING > NOTHING

Remember that the next time you want to use a Tom Brady was drafted in the 7th round so we can get that guy too, or a TJ or ect..ect.. argument.

[mongo]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318449260' post='1044336']

Except that your product is sitting on the shelf getting older and you have to ask yourself if anyone will want to play with an old toy.[/quote]

You're hanging your hat about the sanity of the argument on six months? It's totally not crazy to believe Carson could be worth more in the spring than he is now. Nut up and accept it. I'm not jumping down the minutiae hole to argue silly nitpicks with you.

[bengaled]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318447740' post='1044325']


He's been working out throwing with Housh and hasnt filed retirement papers, I think its safe to assume he wants to play, just not here.
[/quote]


then there's a very good chance he fucked up, trying to call mike brown's bluff. that's not an option that's of his picking and choosing (where he wants to play), especially after all the advanced monies he's stored into his bank acct. again, as old stated, it was HIS decision to quit and threaten retirement, no one else's. he's just going to have to learn to live with the consequences of his actions, sour grapes or not.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='mongo' timestamp='1318449980' post='1044347']
You're hanging your hat about the sanity of the argument on six months? It's totally not crazy to believe Carson could be worth more in the spring than he is now. Nut up and accept it. I'm jumping down the minutiae hole to argue silly nitpicks with you.
[/quote]

Except that its never happened to my knowledge, and I'm more than willing to admit to being wrong if you show me otherwise, that a player has sat out a year and retained the same value.

If you can show me otherwise I am more than willing to say yes I was wrong. I'm simply arguing off past history thats all.

[quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1318450148' post='1044348']


then there's a very good chance he fucked up, trying to call mike brown's bluff. that's not an option that's of his picking and choosing (where he wants to play), especially after all the advanced monies he's stored into his bank acct. again, as old stated, it was HIS decision to quit and threaten retirement, no one else's. he's just going to have to learn to live with the consequences of his actions, sour grapes or not.
[/quote]

and we get no value out of a player we otherwise could have.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318449761' post='1044345']

Or get nothing at all huh Bob? I guess you dont win the showcase showdown then.

ANYFUCKINGTHING > NOTHING[/quote]


OK Jamie, here is a bag of shit for you to eat. Hey, it beats NOTHING doesn't it?



[quote]Remember that the next time you want to use a Tom Brady was drafted in the 7th round so we can get that guy too, or a TJ or ect..ect.. argument.[/quote]


Why would I ever say Tom Brady was drafted in the 7th round? He was drafted in the 6th round.

And I think Carson rotting in California is worth way more than a 7th rounder anyway.
It was his choosing.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318450211' post='1044349']

Except that its never happened to my knowledge, and I'm more than willing to admit to being wrong if you show me otherwise, that a player has sat out a year and retained the same value.
[/quote]



Carson hasn't played or practiced, unless you count him playing catch with TJ in over 10 months.
I don't see how his value will drop much more in 6 more months.

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1318449650' post='1044343']
OK He will come back week eight. Whatever.
[/quote]


Not to this team, in this City he's not.