|Harley| Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [b]Scenario:[/b] We're 8 and 6 with a legitimate shot at the playoffs. Dalton sustains a serious injury in Week 14 and is projected to miss 4 weeks or more. Grad has shown very little and is a bit nicked up too. Are you glad that you at least have the option to activate Palmer (assuming you can work out something to change his mind) to help get you into the playoffs? Are the players happy their playoff dreams may be kept alive? Is he welcomed back? BTW, Jordan gave him a copy of the playbook back in August. Yes hypothetical, yes this is a message board, yes there have been many more useless posts from many of you. Just have fun with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcat Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 You Mock 'WINkowski' at your peril. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1318439213' post='1044247'] The Hawks have Charlie Whitehurst. Man is the bomb!! I would expect the Dolphins to make a big push for him now. Closing out the season on a high note might save their coach and make the fans happy. Waiting for next year probably wont save Sparano. [/quote] I don't know... there's tons of variables involved. How secure is the GM's job would be a big one when regarding a decision. If he was sure he'd be retained, he may as well lose out and grab the new, young guy in next year's draft and look like a genius while hiring a new HC. Evil, but could happen. [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318439463' post='1044249'] That's because your thinking is tainted because of being a fan. If you think the guy will help your team you do it. Period. Let's stop acting like Carson Palmer is TO. [/quote] Carson is not T.O. but he's not Mr. Do Right either. You can say whatever you want about Carson, but the fact of the matter is he left his team because things didn't go the way he wanted. If you wouldn't factor things like this into your decision before trading/signing/hiring someone, then you won't last long in any business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Carson will probly be back in week 10. He has to report for at least six games to accrue a year of service. That will roll one year off the clock for freedom. He has proven he is not a spiteful guy like soP. He could have shown up right before the season started if he was about the $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='Oldcat' timestamp='1318440157' post='1044256'] And your thinking is NOT tainted because......why? [/quote] I dont care good or bad about him anymore and want to do what's best for the team and not getting any value out of him is not that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='Harley' timestamp='1318440649' post='1044260'] [b]Scenario:[/b] We're 8 and 6 with a legitimate shot at the playoffs. Dalton sustains a serious injury in Week 14 and is projected to miss 4 weeks or more. Grad has shown very little and is a bit nicked up too. Are you glad that you at least have the option to activate Palmer (assuming you can work out something to change his mind) to help get you into the playoffs? Are the players happy their playoff dreams may be kept alive? Is he welcomed back? BTW, Jordan gave him a copy of the playbook back in August. Yes hypothetical, yes this is a message board, yes there have been many more useless posts from many of you. Just have fun with it. [/quote] He's not coming back. If Dalton goes down Grat plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1318441073' post='1044262'] I don't know... there's tons of variables involved. How secure is the GM's job would be a big one when regarding a decision. If he was sure he'd be retained, he may as well lose out and grab the new, young guy in next year's draft and look like a genius while hiring a new HC. Evil, but could happen. Carson is not T.O. but he's not Mr. Do Right either. You can say whatever you want about Carson, but the fact of the matter is he left his team because things didn't go the way he wanted. If you wouldn't factor things like this into your decision before trading/signing/hiring someone, then you won't last long in any business. [/quote] People quit their jobs and find other work and are successful in other employment every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1318441334' post='1044264'] Carson will probly be back in week 10. He has to report for at least six games to accrue a year of service. That will roll one year off the clock for freedom. He has proven he is not a spiteful guy like soP. He could have shown up right before the season started if he was about the $$$. [/quote] Not sure this is true anymore under the new cba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318437954' post='1044237'] The whole "quitting" thing is bitter fan syndrome. Other teams arent going to care about that they will pick him up or decline based on talent and if they believe he still has it or not. [/quote] [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318439463' post='1044249'] That's because your thinking is tainted because of being a fan. If you think the guy will help your team you do it. Period. Let's stop acting like Carson Palmer is TO. [/quote] [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318441698' post='1044266'] I dont care good or bad about him anymore and want to do what's best for the team and not getting any value out of him is not that. [/quote] What's this have to do with the above? That doesn't explain how my thinking is tainted and yours isn't. I think you're thinking ass backwards. Let's not make this about Carson. Make it about anything else you want. If you don't take into regard the past of anything, you're not doing your research and you're going to come out hurt , if not more, than you're going to come out good. You can't just say, "Hey, player X use to be good fooball player for said team. He can help me," and then sign the guy without checking out what has happened with him off the field. That's what you're sayinf and that's stupid and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318441890' post='1044268'] People quit their jobs and find other work and are successful in other employment every day. [/quote] But do you really think the employer doesn't check in on his past records? And would you agree that they would take what they discover into consideration before paying this person to work for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1318442320' post='1044271'] What's this have to do with the above? That doesn't explain how my thinking is tainted and yours isn't. I think you're thinking ass backwards. Let's not make this about Carson. Make it about anything else you want. If you don't take into regard the past of anything, you're not doing your research and you're going to come out hurt , if not more, than you're going to come out good. You can't just say, "Hey, player X use to be good fooball player for said team. He can help me," and then sign the guy without checking out what has happened with him off the field. That's what you're sayinf and that's stupid and you know it. [/quote] Except it has happened in every case, for christ sakes even TO caught on with other teams after that ordeal in Philly. Its as simple as if he can help the team he will be given a chance to do so, everything else is nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1318442463' post='1044273'] But do you really think the employer doesn't check in on his past records? And would you agree that they would take what they discover into consideration before paying this person to work for them? [/quote] I would say it varies, some employers ask why you are leaving your previous place of employment and some could care less so long as you can do the job. That applies to successful as well as failing companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318442059' post='1044269'] Not sure this is true anymore under the new cba. [/quote] I don't recall that changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1318442678' post='1044278'] I don't recall that changing. [/quote] I recall Rich Eisen having a argument with Deion Sanders on NFLN about someone that was holding out and Eisen saying it didnt matter now with the new CBA that holdouts dont work the same because you cant accrue years 10 weeks into the season like before. I could be wrong on this but I dont think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318436802' post='1044233'] Luck isnt the only QB in next years draft, next years draft has a couple of guys that will be first rounders, its not like this year's draft that the large consensus was that it was a down year for QBs. It isnt Luck and nobody else.[/quote] So there are 2 or 3 guys worth betting your future on. That still leaves 6-7 teams out of Luck (and other elite prospects). There's a bigger pool of teams next spring than there is now. That means his value is higher in the spring than now. [quote]I would think that a team like Miami who lost their QB for the year, has a coach on the hot seat, and their QB there isnt that great to begin with would take a chance on him so the coach might be able to keep him job. I dont expect Carson to do well right off, but by seasons end he should be doing well enough to give them hope for next year as well as might be able to have their coach keep his job because of that. [/quote] Miami falls into that lame duck category. Sparano is out by the end of the year, Ireland may be as well (especially if they take a run at a guy like Cowher who will want the GM title as well), and there's no way the Dolphins are letting those guys make personnel decisions. They won't be trading, cutting, or extending anybody until at least the new coaching staff is in place... You need teams that will be bad enough to trade in the season, willing to give up on Luck (and 2 other guys), with a stable enough coaching situation to be allowed to make trades during the season, and running an offense Palmer has a shot at learning in a week or two's time. At most, I think that's Minnesota or Seattle, and I don't believe we'd trade Carson to a team we play after the trade deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BENGALS666 Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Just don't trade him for Ocho Cinco.. LOL Joking aside, let him rot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318442486' post='1044274'] Except it has happened in every case, for christ sakes even TO caught on with other teams after that ordeal in Philly. Its as simple as if he can help the team he will be given a chance to do so, everything else is nonsense. [/quote] T.O. is going to the HOF for numerous years of production. Carson has had 1 great season and a couple other good seasons and isn't even sniffing it. They weren't on the same level and I doubt will ever be. I guess it's just a difference of thinking because I can't understand why you would operate that way. [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318442600' post='1044275'] I would say it varies, some employers ask why you are leaving your previous place of employment and some could care less so long as you can do the job. That applies to successful as well as failing companies. [/quote] I'm sure it would vary (someone isn't going to do their due diligence) but I would be willing to bet anyone who really gave a shit about their company would do enough research on the person to at least get an idea of how his personal life affected his job performance (or in Carson's case, lack there of). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1318436746' post='1044232'] Harold Carmichael is a stud, one of the most badass names ever too. [/quote] He, Don Zimmerman, and QB Roman Gabriel...the Eagles' "Fire High Gang". One of my all-time favorite combos. They were a blast to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='mongo' timestamp='1318443131' post='1044283'] So there are 2 or 3 guys worth betting your future on. That still leaves 6-7 teams out of Luck (and other elite prospects). There's a bigger pool of teams next spring than there is now. That means his value is higher in the spring than now. Miami falls into that lame duck category. Sparano is out by the end of the year, Ireland may be as well (especially if they take a run at a guy like Cowher who will want the GM title as well), and there's no way the Dolphins are letting those guys make personnel decisions. They won't be trading, cutting, or extending anybody until at least the new coaching staff is in place... You need teams that will be bad enough to trade in the season, willing to give up on Luck (and 2 other guys), with a stable enough coaching situation to be allowed to make trades during the season, and running an offense Palmer has a shot at learning in a week or two's time. At most, I think that's Minnesota or Seattle, and I don't believe we'd trade Carson to a team we play after the trade deadline. [/quote] If you can find me one 32 year old QB that took a year off and got traded for lets say a what would have been first day pick (rounds 1-3) then I will change my opinion on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 I agree with Mongo. If you're going to trade him, trade him before next year's draft. There will be questions everywhere about the next QB for your team and GM's will fall in love with a non-QB prospect, trade for Carson, and call it a successfull offseason. Carson to Seattle in 2012.[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1318443580' post='1044294'] If you can find me one 32 year old QB that took a year off and got traded for lets say a what would have been first day pick (rounds 1-3) then I will change my opinion on this. [/quote] Carson is such a big douchebag, this has never happened before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1318443447' post='1044289'] T.O. is going to the HOF for numerous years of production. Carson has had 1 great season and a couple other good seasons and isn't even sniffing it. They weren't on the same level and I doubt will ever be. I guess it's just a difference of thinking because I can't understand why you would operate that way. I'm sure it would vary (someone isn't going to do their due diligence) but I would be willing to bet anyone who really gave a shit about their company would do enough research on the person to at least get an idea of how his personal life affected his job performance (or in Carson's case, lack there of). [/quote] Dont move the ball. You're contention was that Carson's quitting would be factored in. I completely disagree. It comes down to if he can still play at a winning level or not. That's it, all other talk is nonsense. And even so, it doesnt mean its going to effect their job performance at the new job. Sometimes all that it takes for a person to preform is a change of scenery.[quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1318443645' post='1044295'] I agree with Mongo. If you're going to trade him, trade him before next year's draft. There will be questions everywhere about the next QB for your team and GM's will fall in love with a non-QB prospect, trade for Carson, and call it a successfull offseason. Carson to Seattle in 2012. Carson is such a big douchebag, this has never happened before. [/quote] I get it, he broke up with you and your bitter about that. But stop factoring it into the discussion about if he could be traded or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDawgBengal Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='Harley' timestamp='1318440649' post='1044260'] [b]Scenario:[/b] We're 8 and 6 with a legitimate shot at the playoffs. Dalton sustains a serious injury in Week 14 and is projected to miss 4 weeks or more. Grad has shown very little and is a bit nicked up too. Are you glad that you at least have the option to activate Palmer (assuming you can work out something to change his mind) to help get you into the playoffs? Are the players happy their playoff dreams may be kept alive? Is he welcomed back? BTW, Jordan gave him a copy of the playbook back in August. Yes hypothetical, yes this is a message board, yes there have been many more useless posts from many of you. Just have fun with it. [/quote] It's just not that easy to walk in and play. For your scenario to work, Carson would have to been practicing with the team for a few weeks and I don't see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='JC' timestamp='1318433321' post='1044209'] I wouldn't trade Palmer for Curry. Curry is making so much money and has been a severe disappointment. We already have a good young linebacking core. If we were to trade him, we would have to get at least a 2nd rounder. I'd say that's bare minimum. Anything less, what's the point? Carson took his team to the playoffs in '09. He's not as bad as our fans make him out to be. [/quote] i'd roll that set of dice, if there was a way to figure out that #3 contract he owns. i'd like to see what zimmer and jeff fitzgerald could do with the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1318441334' post='1044264'] Carson will probly be back in week 10. He has to report for at least six games to accrue a year of service. That will roll one year off the clock for freedom. He has proven he is not a spiteful guy like soP. He could have shown up right before the season started if he was about the $$$. [/quote] I don't believe he will be back, ...Carson is just as stubborn as Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1318436746' post='1044232'] Harold Carmichael is a stud, one of the most badass names ever too. [/quote] your love of the perfect football name cracks me up, sois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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