Available Free Agents

[Le Tigre]

Definitely.

Personally, I think FA is the most overblown adventure around...both for the enormous amounts of money, time, and return for what you get.

With that said, and I think is the concensus, if you can find a good fit for a perhaps-not-that-immediate-or-franchise-saving need, it can be of help.

A Michael Bush would be that type of player. So would a guard. Otherwise, you get your stars in the draft.

[sparky151]

Bengals should aim high in free agency. Under the new CBA the team will have to spend more money anyway starting in 2013 but we might as well start laying the foundation in 2012. Cap was around 125 mil last year and will be a similar amount for 2012. Bengals were about 10 mil under last year so their cap number will be 135 mil. Before tenders or re-signing our own free agents we have about 70 mil committed to the players under contract already. That leaves 65 mil that could be spent. Team will probably leave about 10 mil unspent to roll into 2013 when Dalton is eligible for contract extension. We can probably re-sign most of our own free agents for 30-35 mil. That would leave 25-20 mil for upgrades from other teams.

Supposed we offer Carl Nicks 8 mil per year, the going top rate for a top guard? We could offer Brandon Carr, Brent Grimes, or Cortland Finnegan top CB pay of 9 mil per season and release Clements and his 5 mil contract. We could offer Mario Williams 10 mil per year and cut Geathers and his 4.5 mil. Bring in Stephen Tulloch, Curtis Lofton, or D'qwell Jackson for 5 mil at MLB. Michael Bush or Mike Tolbert should cost less than 5 mil per season.

The point is that the Bengals have a lot of money to spend and will before too long face an obligation to spend it. Let's spend it on decent players rather than overpaying mediocre ones.

[unleashed]

[quote name='sparky151' timestamp='1326564981' post='1089586']
Bengals should aim high in free agency. Under the new CBA the team will have to spend more money anyway starting in 2013 but we might as well start laying the foundation in 2012. Cap was around 125 mil last year and will be a similar amount for 2012. Bengals were about 10 mil under last year so their cap number will be 135 mil. Before tenders or re-signing our own free agents we have about 70 mil committed to the players under contract already. That leaves 65 mil that could be spent. Team will probably leave about 10 mil unspent to roll into 2013 when Dalton is eligible for contract extension. We can probably re-sign most of our own free agents for 30-35 mil. That would leave 25-20 mil for upgrades from other teams.

Supposed we offer Carl Nicks 8 mil per year, the going top rate for a top guard? We could offer Brandon Carr, Brent Grimes, or Cortland Finnegan top CB pay of 9 mil per season and release Clements and his 5 mil contract. We could offer Mario Williams 10 mil per year and cut Geathers and his 4.5 mil. Bring in Stephen Tulloch, Curtis Lofton, or D'qwell Jackson for 5 mil at MLB. Michael Bush or Mike Tolbert should cost less than 5 mil per season.

The point is that the Bengals have a lot of money to spend and will before too long face an obligation to spend it. Let's spend it on decent players rather than overpaying mediocre ones.
[/quote]

Besides Bryant, the Bengals really haven't hung themselves out there too bad on FA overspending for mediocrity.

I really wasn't excited with the Howard, Lawson, and Clements pickups but for what we got all three of these guys for, they really paid dividends.

I think if you are looking for a stopgap until you can draft your player and groom him, it's worth it to pay a little extra for veteran leadership from any of those 3 guys.

Clements did get burned a few times but he seemed like a good leader on and off the field.

Howard and Lawson both came in with pretty low expectations from most but both of them did a pretty good job filling in this year. I would like to see Howard get a couple extra years tacked on to his contract and maybe get Lawson for another year but all three guys did their jobs and helped maintain a top 10 D all year long.

[|Harley|]

I'm liking the fact that we have the beginnings of a good home grown team. Continue to get as many players from the draft as possible and don't ever let the good ones get away (see Joseph, Justin Smith).

Based on this, then go for a couple first tier FAs rather than a boatload of lower tier guys to fill holes. Outside of Benson, most of our FAs are serviceable at best. I don't think we'd apply "stud" to any of them.

[Jason]

I think we should go after some of the Saints free agents. They have 4 or 5 top free agents to re-sign, including Drew Brees. Go after Nicks, Meachem and Colston. Surely we can get at least one of them.

Colston and Nicks would be awesome.

[Le Tigre]

The "names" are all well and good, but here's a question:

Would they fit in the "system" regardless of which side of the ball you want to pick? Just for a "name" example: A Colston sounds good...but how would he fit in Gruden's system? If he would not be a good fit...what benefit would he be?

Same for anyone. They have to be able to be of help with the system in place.

[eva4ben-gal]

[quote name='Le Tigre' timestamp='1326575827' post='1089624']
The "names" are all well and good, but here's a question:

Would they fit in the "system" regardless of which side of the ball you want to pick? Just for a "name" example: A Colston sounds good...but how would he fit in Gruden's system? If he would not be a good fit...what benefit would he be?

Same for anyone. They have to be able to be of help with the system in place.
[/quote]
Considering Gruden runs an offense modeled after the Saints I would think Saints players would be the best fit of any free agents

[JC]

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1326574405' post='1089620']
I think we should go after some of the Saints free agents. They have 4 or 5 top free agents to re-sign, including Drew Brees. Go after Nicks, Meachem and Colston. Surely we can get at least one of them.

Colston and Nicks would be awesome.
[/quote]
Colston would be perfect for this offense. I feel like he's going to get hella paid though. Probably more than we can afford for a #2 receiver. I think Nicks is a definite possibility. They pursued Gallery last year showing that they were at least willing to give a pay-day. Nicks would be nice and probably more feasible than paying Colston close to ten million.

They are going to have a hard time paying all those guys with Brees about to get his Peyton money.

[Le Tigre]

[quote name='eva4ben-gal' timestamp='1326577005' post='1089631']
Considering Gruden runs an offense modeled after the Saints I would think Saints players would be the best fit of any free agents
[/quote]

My point exactly, as stated. The fit is the key.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Le Tigre' timestamp='1326575827' post='1089624']
The "names" are all well and good, but here's a question:

Would they fit in the "system" regardless of which side of the ball you want to pick? Just for a "name" example: A Colston sounds good...but how would he fit in Gruden's system? If he would not be a good fit...what benefit would he be?

Same for anyone. They have to be able to be of help with the system in place.
[/quote]


Gruden has said that his system is closest to what the Saints offense is.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='JC' timestamp='1326578455' post='1089639']
Colston would be perfect for this offense. I feel like he's going to get hella paid though. Probably more than we can afford for a #2 receiver. I think Nicks is a definite possibility. They pursued Gallery last year showing that they were at least willing to give a pay-day. Nicks would be nice and probably more feasible than paying Colston close to ten million.

They are going to have a hard time paying all those guys with Brees about to get his Peyton money.
[/quote]

I don't think they let Colston go. I also think Lance Moore is a free agent.

I think the most likely opeion would be Robert Meachem. His stats aren't mindblowing, but when you consider he's basically the #4 on their team when it comes to # of targets (5 if you count sproles), his stats are pretty damn respectable.

[MichaelWeston]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1326584741' post='1089666']

I don't think they let Colston go. I also think Lance Moore is a free agent.

I think the most likely opeion would be Robert Meachem. His stats aren't mindblowing, but when you consider he's basically the #4 on their team when it comes to # of targets (5 if you count sproles), his stats are pretty damn respectable.
[/quote]

Lance Moore has 4 more years to FA

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=452282

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1326585213' post='1089672']

Lance Moore has 4 more years to FA

[url="http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=452282"]http://www.footballs...ic.php?t=452282[/url]
[/quote]


then the dog lied...

[MichaelWeston]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1326585289' post='1089674']


then the dog lied...
[/quote]

f'in dog

[JC]

Not that it would happen, but Mario Williams could be hitting the market and they said the franchise tag would be $22 million. (WOW). It would be karmatic justice to steal their best player from them after them doing it to us.

[thedaltonshow]

I would prefer us to get a CB rather than an OG in FA...preferably Brent Grimes from the Falcons. OG is truly one of the positions that it's easy to find in the middle rounds of the draft if absolutely necessary. Though I'd prefer us to draft a guard in round 1 (if not 2 guards with our 2 picks), it's much harder to develop CB talent in this league, to be sure. Taking a proven commodity like Grimes would really help this defense, and I don't think we should get rid of Clements, either. You need 3 good corners in this league, and I think Clements provides some insurance in case Hall isn't ready at the beginning of next year or if he regresses because of injury.

Additionally, I would like to stay away from Michael Bush. One of my best friends is a Raiders fan, and he seems to think that Bush is pretty overrated. He got the ball a heck of a lot when DMC went down, but his YPC wasn't exceptional by any means. Not to mention, he's not really a home run threat in any sense of the word.

I think as fans, we need to accept that this offense doesn't need a feature back in the mold of an Adrian Peterson. I think something like what the Saints have would be much better for our purposes--two or three backs that can all catch the ball and put stress on a defense at the edges. Ced doesn't fit this offense, that's for damn sure. But I'd love to have a speedster like the kid out of Va Tech or Miller out of the U.

As far as a WR goes, I think we should splurge on a guy like Colston--from a winning franchise, who's proven he won't demand the ball because he comes from an offense that spreads it to 4 or 5 guys. He could really thrive on seam and crossing routes with AJ going deep. I think with him, Shipley, Green, and baby Hawk, this offense could resemble the Saints, granted that Andy continues to develop.

[JC]

I wish Arian was a free agent.

He's the best back in the league right now. Can't believe he used to be a practice squad player.

[texbengal]

[quote name='JC' timestamp='1326657114' post='1089787']I wish Arian was a free agent.

He's the best back in the league right now. Can't believe he used to be a practice squad player.[/quote]

Wasn't even drafted. I'm sure he uses that as motivation.

[texbengal]

[quote name='thedaltonshow' timestamp='1326656537' post='1089783']I would prefer us to get a CB rather than an OG in FA...preferably Brent Grimes from the Falcons. OG is truly one of the positions that it's easy to find in the middle rounds of the draft if absolutely necessary. Though I'd prefer us to draft a guard in round 1 (if not 2 guards with our 2 picks), it's much harder to develop CB talent in this league, to be sure. Taking a proven commodity like Grimes would really help this defense, and I don't think we should get rid of Clements, either. You need 3 good corners in this league, and I think Clements provides some insurance in case Hall isn't ready at the beginning of next year or if he regresses because of injury.

Additionally, I would like to stay away from Michael Bush. One of my best friends is a Raiders fan, and he seems to think that Bush is pretty overrated. He got the ball a heck of a lot when DMC went down, but his YPC wasn't exceptional by any means. Not to mention, he's not really a home run threat in any sense of the word.

I think as fans, we need to accept that this offense doesn't need a feature back in the mold of an Adrian Peterson. I think something like what the Saints have would be much better for our purposes--two or three backs that can all catch the ball and put stress on a defense at the edges. Ced doesn't fit this offense, that's for damn sure. But I'd love to have a speedster like the kid out of Va Tech or Miller out of the U.

As far as a WR goes, I think we should splurge on a guy like Colston--from a winning franchise, who's proven he won't demand the ball because he comes from an offense that spreads it to 4 or 5 guys. He could really thrive on seam and crossing routes with AJ going deep. I think with him, Shipley, Green, and baby Hawk, this offense could resemble the Saints, granted that Andy continues to develop.[/quote]

I like Grimes a lot, and he's young. While I agree that Gs can be found outside of the top rounds, if there's one sitting there like a DeCastro in the draft, I'd take him.

I like Colston a lot - who doesn't - but I think for the money he will command, there are others like Laurent Robinson (or a high pick) who will still give you a lot of productivity for less $. And you can use the other money to supplement the team in other ways. IMO, his team isn't one player away, and there are other holes to fill.

If I'm gonna spend big bucks on someone, I'd go CB first. Just in the last 2 days, you've seen two first-time Pro Bowl CBs in J Joe and Carlos Rogers who are have paid huge dividends for their teams as FA signings.

[happyrid]

Good call by those talking about Saints FAs. They are getting pretty close to the cap once you factor in a Brees extension or franchise tag. They probably are going to have to let a couple pretty talented guys leave. And as mentioned, they run a pretty similar offensive system to what we're trying to do here with Andy.

I still think the 2 biggest things separating the Bengals offense from the league's best are 1: QB Play and 2: Number of weapons in the passing game.

#1 we are just in wait and see mode with Andy. He exceeded pretty much any reasonable set of expectations as a rookie, but there is no guarantee he ever becomes elite. He has a great chance with a solid set of tools and what seems to be a great attitude, makeup and work ethic. But, like most NFL teams, we'll only go as far as he can take us and we just don't know how good he will end up being.

#2 is something that we can and should focus on in both FA and the draft. One of the things that makes teams like GB, NO and NE so hard to stop is that they put 4+ weapons out there that are capable of creating mis-matches 1-on-1 and then based on the coverage decisions made by the D, they find the most favorable matchup and exploit it. I feel like right now, we've got 2 of those guys in Green and Gresham. There's a chance Shipley could be a 3rd if he can stay healthy. But to me, we need to add 1 or 2 more matchup problem guys. Whether it be a RB like Sproles, a 2nd TE like Aaron Hernandez, a better slot guy like Welker, or a better outside #2 WR like Jordy Nelson.

From what I see of free agnecy, it seems like there aren't a ton of answers for #2. Though guys like Michael Bush (good receiver for a RB his size), John Carlson (potential as pass catching #2 TE), and Colston (strong #2 WR) seem like the most obvious options on first glance. However, what I think I'd really, really prefer to see is for us to fill as many glaring non-skill position holes as possible in FA (OG, CB, S) so that we can load up on offensive playmakers in the draft (seems like a deep draft at WR and RB).

[i](Sorry if I'm repeating myself in some of these posts, I think my opinions sometimes change gradually over time, but remain fairly constant and I always have this urge when watching other teams play football to get on here and write down what I'm thinking as my mind invariably wanders towards thoughts of Bengals when football is on the TV. Looking forward to some good offseason discussion and am open to having my mind changed on any of these topics.)[/i]

[eva4ben-gal]

[quote name='JC' timestamp='1326651045' post='1089767']
Not that it would happen, but Mario Williams could be hitting the market and they said the franchise tag would be $22 million. (WOW). It would be karmatic justice to steal their best player from them after them doing it to us.
[/quote]
Is that as a linebacker or DE for that tag number? Yeah it would great to pair him with Dunlap.

[unleashed]

[quote name='eva4ben-gal' timestamp='1326664501' post='1089809']
Is that as a linebacker or DE for that tag number? Yeah it would great to pair him with Dunlap.[/quote]

Think he's listed as DE. Either way, those two guys together would be monstrous.

I think they will probably be looking at premier guards when they become available though.

Should be the most exciting off season in a while with the draft and potential free agents

[texbengal]

[quote name='unleashed' timestamp='1326668176' post='1089834']

Think he's listed as DE. Either way, those two guys together would be monstrous.

I think they will probably be looking at premier guards when they become available though.

Should be the most exciting off season in a while with the draft and potential free agents[/quote]

Actually, he's listed as a LB (outside) in their 3-4. He was replaced by rookie Brooks Reed, whom I really liked coming out last season from Arizona. He's played really well, which makes you wonder about what they'll do for 2012. They have Mario, Reed, Ryans, Cushing, and Barwin as LBs. That is the best 5 in the league... By far.

[Oldcat]

[quote name='texbengal' timestamp='1326679573' post='1089851']
Actually, he's listed as a LB (outside) in their 3-4. He was replaced by rookie Brooks Reed, whom I really liked coming out last season from Arizona. He's played really well, which makes you wonder about what they'll do for 2012. They have Mario, Reed, Ryans, Cushing, and Barwin as LBs. That is the best 5 in the league... By far.
[/quote]

I don't think the tag value for LB is 22 million. No matter what they say on the roster, that tag number is for a DE.

[unleashed]

[quote name='Oldcat' timestamp='1326681806' post='1089859']

I don't think the tag value for LB is 22 million. No matter what they say on the roster, that tag number is for a DE.[/quote]

Yeah that's what I assumed when I saw that price tag also. Premier pass rushing de's are higher value than an olb