Zimmer: “I’m not going to stand pat for this.'

[Bengals1181]

I'd still like to see Brandon Thompson get a few snaps at DE. He's not likely ever going to get past a RT, but he can certainly rough one up and help collapse a pocket allowing Atkins or MJ to make a play on the backside.

Tackles aren't built to handle 325lbs guys who are that strong and that quick off the snap.


It'd be sort of like Red Bryant in Seattle, in a much smaller role.

[|SF2|]

[quote name='Jeb' timestamp='1347979920' post='1159816']
Could it be Crocker was better than we thought and helped hide the flaws in Rey's game? He did help corral plays at times.
[/quote]

Ehh, we have been discussing Rey for a few years now even when Crocker was on the team. He did OK when Dhani was the Mike but those days are long gone. In fact, I would say Dhani helped hide more of Rey's flaws 2 years ago than Crocker did and Dhani was long in the tooth. Just to reiterate:

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Lets just be honest:[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Ravens Ray Lewis >>> Rey[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Clowns D'Qwell Jackson >> Rey[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Redskins Brian Orakpo >>> Rey EDIT: Orakpo out for season.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Jags Paul Posluszny > Rey[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Fins Carlos Dansby >> Rey[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Pittspuke Larry Foote >> Rey[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Denver Von Miller >>> Rey[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]New York Giants gotta say its a push[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Chiefs Derrick Johnson >>> Rey[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Oakland PUSH Maybe Rey wins this one.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Chargers Hell, Spikes, at 52 years of age is still a better player.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Dallas Demarcus Ware >>> Rey[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Eagles DeMeco Ryans >> Rey[/font][/color]

[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]The reality is he isn't even an average LB at this point at the Mike position. We are not talking about a rookie here, this guy has been with the team WAY TOO long to not have gotten it yet. I imagine we will see him the first series of play this weekend and if he doesn't start playing like a starter, Zimmer will have to make a tough decision. It isn't asking too much for a 2nd round linebacker to be decent and not make a lot of mistakes in his 4th year. [/color][/font]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I also expect more hurry up offense against us as teams have decided that not allowing Zimmer to rotate specialty players into the game really weakens our ability to rush the QB and cover down field. The template to exploit our defense has been on display the last 2 games so expect more of the same from a play calling stance. Rey will have ample opportunity to prove himself this weekend as teams will continue to attack between the center and guards on running plays.[/font][/color]

[Abu-Zayd]

[quote name='SF2' timestamp='1347970792' post='1159777']
Gotta have the players to play defense like that. You have to have the corners and safeties on your squad who are capable of man coverage for more than 3 tenths of a second. You also need LBs who can get at the QB in a hurry and or cover a TE who is the obvious outlet to the blitzes they were throwing at Peyton. We have neither.
[/quote]


In the offseason, no safety was sought. Mays was supposed to have come along to the point of being a quality starter. No LBs were sought. Old and released CBs were brought in with the hope that since they had been 1st rounders at one point, they will be fine.

The weak offseason in terms of defense has been exposed thus far. Mays and Manny Lawson were sent packing from the 49ers. Speaking of those 49ers, now that team can play some defense. And Jim Harbaugh is one of the top 3 coaches in the NFL currently. What a hire.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Abu-Zayd' timestamp='1348022273' post='1159972']
In the offseason, no safety was sought. Mays was supposed to have come along to the point of being a quality starter. No LBs were sought. Old and released CBs were brought in with the hope that since they had been 1st rounders at one point, they will be fine.

The weak offseason in terms of defense has been exposed thus far. Mays and Manny Lawson were sent packing from the 49ers. Speaking of those 49ers, now that team can play some defense. And Jim Harbaugh is one of the top 3 coaches in the NFL currently. What a hire.
[/quote]

to be fair, only newman was old.

Jones, 28 was resigned and Allen, 29. The young guys Kirkpatrick and Prater have been saddled by injuries. Ghee they probably weren't counting on during free agency time, but he's obviously been saddled with a season ending injury.

[scharm]

[quote name='Abu-Zayd' timestamp='1348022273' post='1159972']



In the offseason, no safety was sought. Mays was supposed to have come along to the point of being a quality starter. No LBs were sought. Old and released CBs were brought in with the hope that since they had been 1st rounders at one point, they will be fine.

The weak offseason in terms of defense has been exposed thus far. Mays and Manny Lawson were sent packing from the 49ers. Speaking of those 49ers, now that team can play some defense. And Jim Harbaugh is one of the top 3 coaches in the NFL currently. What a hire.
[/quote]

Hogwash. They got plenty of additions to the defense. It is as simple as the coach and his players are not getting it done.

No way in hell can someone make the arguement that a top 10 defense goes to worse in the league with acquisitions they made.

[|OneHeartBeat|]

Im confident in Zimmers ability to get this thing corrected

[Tigris]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1347983224' post='1159837']
I'd still like to see Brandon Thompson get a few snaps at DE. He's not likely ever going to get past a RT, but he can certainly rough one up and help collapse a pocket allowing Atkins or MJ to make a play on the backside.

Tackles aren't built to handle 325lbs guys who are that strong and that quick off the snap.


It'd be sort of like Red Bryant in Seattle, in a much smaller role.
[/quote]

If I were a QB and I saw that tank lined up over at DE, I'm changing the play to a sweep or something to his side where he'd have to move.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1348057209' post='1159999']
If I were a QB and I saw that tank lined up over at DE, I'm changing the play to a sweep or something to his side where he'd have to move.
[/quote]

I'd consider that win. What better pass rush is there than getting the QB to switch to a run play.

[Tigris]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1348057359' post='1160000']
I'd consider that win. What better pass rush is there than getting the QB to switch to a run play.
[/quote]

Ha! I guess that is true.

[mullichicken25]

i feel like all our defensive problems can get diminished if we get a pass rush

Even the best secondary is going to get beat when the QB's got a nice clean pocket and all day to throw...so a shakey and beat up secondary is all but fucked without a good pass rush

consistant QB pressure with the front 4 will get this defense off the field a lot more often. Thats what the entire defense is built around, and as we've seen, everything falls to shit when that doesn't happen. We dont need 5+ sacks a game, just somebody making the QB uncomfortable on 3rd and long...forcing bad throws, check downs, etc.

So far i've seen one or two good plays a game from the Dline, and then they vanish completely... i was expecting more consistancy from Geno, hopefully when and If Dunlap ever gets fucking healthy it'll free him up a little bit.

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='mullichicken25' timestamp='1348062285' post='1160024']
i feel like all our defensive problems can get diminished if we get a pass rush

Even the best secondary is going to get beat when the QB's got a nice clean pocket and all day to throw...so a shakey and beat up secondary is all but fucked without a good pass rush

consistant QB pressure with the front 4 will get this defense off the field a lot more often. Thats what the entire defense is built around, and as we've seen, everything falls to shit when that doesn't happen. We dont need 5+ sacks a game, just somebody making the QB uncomfortable on 3rd and long...forcing bad throws, check downs, etc.

So far i've seen one or two good plays a game from the Dline, and then they vanish completely... i was expecting more consistancy from Geno, hopefully when and If Dunlap ever gets fucking healthy it'll free him up a little bit.
[/quote]
Hopefully Moch can continue his preseason pass rush domination when he's back too

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='mullichicken25' timestamp='1348062285' post='1160024']
i feel like all our defensive problems can get diminished if we get a pass rush

Even the best secondary is going to get beat when the QB's got a nice clean pocket and all day to throw...so a shakey and beat up secondary is all but fucked without a good pass rush

consistant QB pressure with the front 4 will get this defense off the field a lot more often. Thats what the entire defense is built around, and as we've seen, everything falls to shit when that doesn't happen. We dont need 5+ sacks a game, just somebody making the QB uncomfortable on 3rd and long...forcing bad throws, check downs, etc.

So far i've seen one or two good plays a game from the Dline, and then they vanish completely... i was expecting more consistancy from Geno, hopefully when and If Dunlap ever gets fucking healthy it'll free him up a little bit.
[/quote]


x2. Get the dline healthy and make a few changes in the secondary (jones starting, clements to safety) and also get allen and kirkpatrick back and there should be a noticeable improvement.


Right now you have Dunlap, Allen and Kirkpatrick out.

Jones has been limited.

Hall and Geathers are playing not at 100%

MJ is wearing down late in games because he's playing too much.


It's no surprise the pass rush and pass D is hurting so much with the injury issues going on.


Things should hopefully get better quick with guys getting healthy.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1348060295' post='1160016']
Ha! I guess that is true.
[/quote]

lol the more I think about it, the more I think it makes sense in a game like this. With a mobile QB you need to not blow up field and open up running lanes. You need to keep your contain and push the pocket inward surrounding the QB. Perfect thing for Thompson to do. Push the tackle in and force a quick throw or sack by someone else. Basically a mush rush.

[Bengals1181]

another reason not to overreact:

[quote][color=#333333][font=verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]The AFC North is a division known for its defenses. Last year, all four teams finished in the top 10 in defense and there was a point during the season when they held the top four spots. [/size][/font][/color]

[color=#333333][font=verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]The 2012 season has been a complete turnaround so far. Three teams -- the Ravens, Browns and Bengals -- rank in the bottom six in defense. They're all giving up more than 400 yards per game. The Steelers, who had the top-ranked defense a year ago, are currently at No. 7. [/size][/font][/color][/quote]

[url="http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/54868/rough-start-for-afc-north-defenses"]http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/54868/rough-start-for-afc-north-defenses[/url]

[|ArmyBengal|]

wasn't it two years ago that the G-men started the season with some awful games from their defense? Then they started getting guys healthy and back from PUP and became a force late in the season.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='ArmyBengal' timestamp='1348065332' post='1160039']
wasn't it two years ago that the G-men started the season with some awful games from their defense? Then they started getting guys healthy and back from PUP and became a force late in the season.
[/quote]

they always start slow it seems. Even this year they've given up what, 58 points in 2 games?

[mongo]

[quote name='ArmyBengal' timestamp='1348065332' post='1160039']
wasn't it two years ago that the G-men started the season with some awful games from their defense? Then they started getting guys healthy and back from PUP and became a force late in the season.
[/quote]

They had a ton of injuries heading into the season, and got better as they got healthy... We could sure stand to get healthy.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1348048093' post='1159983']
Hogwash. They got plenty of additions to the defense. It is as simple as the coach and his players are not getting it done.

No way in hell can someone make the arguement that a top 10 defense goes to worse in the league with acquisitions they made.
[/quote]


hmm maybe the easy schedule fooled us into thinking they were better than they were?

[|ArmyBengal|]

[color=#222222]I guess I'm hopeful that's what happens with the Bengals. As opposed to having the defense fade down the stretch because of injuries, fatigue etc.[/color]

[color=#222222]Last several SB winners are the teams the peaked late and made a run through the playoffs. [/color]
[color=#222222][/color]
[color=#222222]The $64,000 question, can the Bengals win enough games to get into the playoffs? With the softest part of schedule up next, maybe the timing is in our favor.[/color]
[color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#222222]Week Two down, and all I know is that I'm lovin it so far. All story lines, the unknowns, the ‘what ifs’ and this awesome forum.[/color]
[color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#222222]Who Dey!![/color]

[scharm]

[quote name='mullichicken25' timestamp='1348062285' post='1160024']
i feel like all our defensive problems can get diminished if we get a pass rush

Even the best secondary is going to get beat when the QB's got a nice clean pocket and all day to throw...so a shakey and beat up secondary is all but fucked without a good pass rush

consistant QB pressure with the front 4 will get this defense off the field a lot more often. Thats what the entire defense is built around, and as we've seen, everything falls to shit when that doesn't happen. We dont need 5+ sacks a game, just somebody making the QB uncomfortable on 3rd and long...forcing bad throws, check downs, etc.

So far i've seen one or two good plays a game from the Dline, and then they vanish completely... i was expecting more consistancy from Geno, hopefully when and If Dunlap ever gets fucking healthy it'll free him up a little bit.
[/quote]

Teams are whooping this defense in many ways. The number 1 problem is this defense hasn't adjusted to all the counters, delays, misdirection etc. plays teams have used against them.

QBs are getting time with counter roll outs. Running lays are created with delayed handoffs.

I don't discount the value of a good pass rush. But it's clear teams took a look at a defense last year and said we don't want to play them straight up. The teams we have faced are diminishing our strength from last year through misdirection stuff. To this point we have not adjusted at all.

[scharm]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1348067669' post='1160050']



hmm maybe the easy schedule fooled us into thinking they were better than they were?
[/quote]

Strenght of schedule is overblown. It's the NFL.

However - They played the Ravens and Browns so far this season. How's that tougher than anything they did last year?

[|ArmyBengal|]

There is plenty of evidence to argue Division games are tough regardless of Win-Loss records going into them. Even when the Bengals were the ACN doormat they rose up and beat the likes of the Ravens, Steeler and going further back the Oilers.

[Bengals1181]

A good place to start on D is tackling. Read that 188 of weedens 322yds came after the catch. Specifically, I can think of three big plays that happened due to missed tackles. Make those tackles and it's probably a 17 point game.

[Squirrlnutz]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1348093106' post='1160147']
A good place to start on D is tackling. Read that 188 of weedens 322yds came after the catch. Specifically, I can think of three big plays that happened due to missed tackles. Make those tackles and it's probably a 17 point game.
[/quote]

It's extra baffling because we've been so good at rallying and gang tackling over the past three years. Where other teams got big sacks on third and long we would force the check down and gang tackle short of the first down with regularity.

I'm still inclined to believe we'll right the ship over the course of 16 games, just can't accept that these guys suddenly can't play anymore or that Crocker and Rucker were that important.

[Oldcat]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1348093106' post='1160147']
A good place to start on D is tackling. Read that 188 of weedens 322yds came after the catch. Specifically, I can think of three big plays that happened due to missed tackles. Make those tackles and it's probably a 17 point game.
[/quote]

There were also quite a few where some outlet guy got it free and clear and went untouched for quite a while. Even a bad tackle might have slowed things down for someone else to come up.