scharm Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 [quote name='alleycat' timestamp='1355345027' post='1192062'] You build a line from the inside out. When the weak link of your O-Line is the center, you have a problem. Other than that, I'll grant you, we have a pretty damn fine O-Line, and I'd bet we'd instantly be top 3 if we had the likes of a Pouncey at Center. [/quote] Probably Top 3 today. With Faine/Robison filling the hole with two Green guards. There is no weak link. If you want to find out a way to jump this offense from it's very overachieving 15th ranking and 350 yards. Look here: 1. Experience. 2. Settle No. 2 WR spot 3. Explosive RB You don't build a line from inside out. Tell me why Tackles are drafted higher than Guards/Centers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 [quote name='alleycat' timestamp='1355344235' post='1192053'] +1 The other worst message is that you don't value performance above all else. Playing it safe with vets is one thing, but burying the talent on your team in service of that credo is another. Look at our WR situation this year. Of all the receivers in camp (other than AJ and Hawkins), who was really exciting/intriguing? Sanu and Marvin Jones. But we were going to stick with our two vets (never mind that NEITHER had really had much regular season WR experience). The new guys get in half way through the season, and immediately flash when they do. Sure, they've made some mistakes, but the other guys can't even sniff the field - and one of them was cut! Teams like the Steelers and Pats excel because they are plugging in new talent, regardless of experience. Guys like Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown made pretty instant impacts, but they would have been riding the pine here behind Armon Binns and Brandon Tate until they "paid their dues.," or some other old-fashioned logic. Again, I say, if you aren't going to keep Robinson in and/or groom him to be your Starter, draft a center with one of the first two picks because Kyle Cook has already shown that he is below average, and O-Line's (along with the D), win Superbowls. [/quote] Great post ! Spot on with the WR example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhfinks Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Robinson > Cook - IMO ... cook isn't in football shape and Robinson is... plus he's done a great job.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1355345618' post='1192067'] 4 game winning streak. Nothing to do with our opponents, nothing to do with Dalton's decision making improving, nothing to do with Sanu emerging for 3 games to settle the #2 WR spot, nothing to do with the D gel-ing, contesting passes more than before, plugging holes etc. Instead, everything to do with the center. Its fucking magic and we better not change it. [/quote] exactly who is saying this ? I'm in favor of playing the best player with the best results. If thats Cook. Great roll with Cook. No doubt the line played great with TR in the lineup though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 [quote name='bubba' timestamp='1355351409' post='1192090'] exactly who is saying this ? I'm in favor of playing the best player with the best results. If thats Cook. Great roll with Cook. No doubt the line played great with TR in the lineup though. [/quote] maybe not you, but there's a number of cook haters out there who don't want him in there regardless of who the replacement is. Despite the fact that numerous sites have placed Cook in the top half of the league. IMO Robinson should be playing the overwhelming majority while the offense is playing well, but it shouldn't be a foregone conclusion that Cook won't earn his spot back at any given point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 [quote name='mhfinks' timestamp='1355349531' post='1192079'] Robinson > Cook - IMO ... cook isn't in football shape and Robinson is... plus he's done a great job.... [/quote] Yep. That says it all. I would still look at drafting a strong center high this Spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 [quote name='High School Harry' timestamp='1355352037' post='1192092'] Yep. That says it all. I would still look at drafting a strong center high this Spring. [/quote] so not a fan of Robinson either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1355352124' post='1192093'] so not a fan of Robinson either? [/quote] words in my mouth... Paul Brown said "start with a strong Center, and build around him". I would like to see an upgrade over both Cook and Robinson who I think would make excellent backups and guards. But I would like to see the Bengals do what PB proposed and the P-word team has done for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 ^ and as R J Bell said Vegas values center as 2nd highest position behind quarterback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASTYNATI Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think Marvin values "veteran presence and leadership" to much. I think he often gets caught up in making sure his veteran players are "taken care of" and at times I dont think its in the best interest of the team. Personally im in favor of Cook getting a chance to earn his starting spot back next year in camp or if Robinson goes down injured but to start working him back into the game plan in the middle of a playoff run is absolutely stupid. The O-line more than any other area on the field operates as a unit. They have to develop a feel for one another, it takes time to gel. Until last week I felt it was the best any O-line on this team had performed over a multi week stretch since 05. Its absolutely silly to suggest that Cook is a better option than Robinson at this point given the nature of his injury and how long he has been away from football. Cook is solid, he's not great but he doesnt suck. I think at this point he is a liability. If the Bengals want any shot at the playoffs they need to do what they have done over the last 4 wins... Field the guys that are playing the best right now, be aggressive in their play calling, and take risks when necessary. I honestly feel this team is playing better than the Ravens and Steelers of late but I feel under Marvins direction they will find a way to underperform. I hope im wrong, I really do. There would be nothing sweeter than the Bengals beating the Ratbirds and clenching a playoff spot while in person at PBS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 ^ agree on all points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 [quote name='High School Harry' timestamp='1355352783' post='1192095'] words in my mouth... Paul Brown said "start with a strong Center, and build around him". I would like to see an upgrade over both Cook and Robinson who I think would make excellent backups and guards. But I would like to see the Bengals do what PB proposed and the P-word team has done for years. [/quote] No, I was asking a question. But it seems the answer is no. You don't think either is the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I personally don't have a problem with them playing Cook half the snaps. Neither the Play of Cook or Robinson was in any way influential in the loss of that game, and anyone who says different has an agenda. Cook is a very solid center, definitely in the top half of starting centers in the league, and Robinson has played well over the last four weeks. In years past, they may have been able to run with Robinson and get Cook up to speed in practice, however, with the new CBA and the lack of hitting and even padded practices, the only way to truly see where he is is by putting him into live fire. Additionally, with both Pissburg and the rats coming up, you probably are smarter to have Cook ready, because he has faced that pressure before. As far as needing to draft someone else, that's just laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1355343206' post='1192045'] Pretty sure pulling your starting center during a win streak for someone that hasn't played all year because you're scared he can't handle the Ravens/Steelers is the worst possible message you could send your team. [/quote] I have to agree. Like someone upthread noted, a line isn't just about talent. It's cohesion and I expressed this very worry about getting Cook in there when Robinson has jelled with the rest of the line and the unit has been playing well. And seriously: who is really scared of the Steelers or Ravens depleted defenses anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 Just rewatched and thought both played quite well. Thought each only really had one bad play. Robinson got beat on the play Rob Ryan was flagged and Cook had a false start where he flinched on Dalton's cadence. Neither were even remotely why the Bengals lost the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='alleycat' timestamp='1355340740' post='1192025'] Wait, this CincyJungle guy is throwing out the Marvin Jones reverse for Robinson's statistics? A little bias, maybe? I get that long runs skew stats, so why not throw out the long run BJGE had when cook was in? Then how do they look? Cooks 74-38 (long run) = 36, or 3.6/run on 10 carries, versus Robinson's 5.0. Now that's comparing Apples to Apples (as much as possible with this sort of thing)... [/quote] Fwiw, it was cook and zeitler who opened up that hole for BJGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1355360116' post='1192115'] Fwiw, it was cook and zeitler who opened up that hole for BJGE. [/quote] I'll thank you to refer to our starting RB by his [i]legal[/i] name, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1355356299' post='1192104'] No, I was asking a question. But it seems the answer is no. You don't think either is the answer. [/quote] I think both are good, Robinson a big and pleasant surprise, I would just like to see someone in there better and long term. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='High School Harry' timestamp='1355366159' post='1192133'] I think both are good, Robinson a big and pleasant surprise, I would just like to see someone in there better and long term. That's all. [/quote] fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bgal Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 I wonder what Dalton thinks. I'm down with whoever he wants to play center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1355356465' post='1192106'] Neither the Play of Cook or Robinson was in any way influential in the loss of that game, and anyone who says different has an agenda. [/quote] What agenda would that be? Wanting them to win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VBurfict55 Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='Bgal' timestamp='1355378641' post='1192146'] I wonder what Dalton thinks. I'm down with whoever he wants to play center. [/quote] Think I agree with this, have to listen to your leader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1355398627' post='1192152'] What agenda would that be? Wanting them to win? [/quote] which begs the point, if they had won, which the fact they didn't had nothing to do with either center's play, we wouldn't even be talking about this. We're only talking about this because other guys screwed up, namely the receiving corp. Neither center lost them that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1355402368' post='1192164'] We're only talking about this because other guys screwed up, namely the receiving corp. Neither center lost them that game. [/quote] To be clear, it's the rotation I had a problem with. The line as a unit looked shaky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1355403583' post='1192174'] To be clear, it's the rotation I had a problem with. The line as a unit looked shaky. [/quote] the line was shaky against the Chargers too, as far as pass pro. They actually ran the ball better against Dallas than San Diego. When they actually ran the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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