An Interesting Draft Perspective

[Bengals1181]

'Pillar needs' for Steelers and Bengals

 

Our friends at Football Outsiders  have gone beyond the generic "top needs" that you see associated with teams heading into the draft. They examine "pillar needs," which are described as ones that a team always need because they are the foundation of their scheme and philosophy. So, this doesn't mean that these are needs that the teams will address in the first or second round because they need a starter. A pillar need is a trait that teams seek in the middle rounds when looking to restock their depth. 

This is an Insider post, so you'll need a subscription to view the entire report (paging Jason). But I can give you an excerpt of what Andy Benoit of Football Outsiders wrote about the Pittsburgh Steelers and Cincinnati Bengals: 

BENGALS: Athletic defensive linemen. This is essential for the Bengals because they do so much zone-blitzing. Most 4-3 defenses don't run these blitzes because it requires a certain athleticism from defensive linemen. Football Outsiders: "They must be able to explode off the ball, redirect into a backpedal, change directions laterally and move well in space. The more linemen a team has who can do this, the more diverse its zone blitz packages can be. Zimmer's Bengals are diverse enough to use overload zone blitzes, meaning multiple linemen drop back."

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/68297/pillar-needs-for-steelers-and-bengals

[alleycat]

So you're saying we should take Werner  :265: 

 

Actually, Geno had an amazing 40 time IIRC.  But I'd also add to this observation that the bengals D-Line is also much more like a hockey team in the way that it seems to constantly rotate guys in and out so they can be at their freshest. 

 

Another argument for another starter quality guy on the DL.

[bengaled]

So you're saying we should take Werner  :265: 

 

Actually, Geno had an amazing 40 time IIRC.  But I'd also add to this observation that the bengals D-Line is also much more like a hockey team in the way that it seems to constantly rotate guys in and out so they can be at their freshest. 

 

Another argument for another starter quality guy on the DL.

 

 

 

So, this doesn't mean that these are needs that the teams will address in the first or second round because they need a starter. A pillar need is a trait that teams seek in the middle rounds when looking to restock their depth.

[Jason]

(paging Jason)

 

 

Gotcha covered!

  Cincinnati Bengals

Pillar need: athletic defensive linemen

A critical component of defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer's scheme, particularly in his aggressive third-down packages, is the zone blitz. You'll notice that in passing situations, the Bengals often crowd the line of scrimmage with two linebackers in the A-gaps (between the guard and center). Many teams do this as a means of creating one-on-one matchups for their front four pass-rushers. With the Bengals, the tactic is also aimed at setting up various zone blitz designs.

In its simplest terms, a zone blitz is essentially where a back-seven defender rushes and a defensive lineman drops back to replace him in coverage. Defenses, particularly 3-4 units, like it because it can create chaos and confusion without sacrificing bodies in coverage. The reason more 4-3 teams don't zone blitz is it demands sensational athleticism from the defensive linemen. They must be able to explode off the ball, redirect into a backpedal, change directions laterally and move well in space. The more linemen a team has who can do this, the more diverse its zone blitz packages can be. Zimmer's Bengals are diverse enough to use overload zone blitzes, meaning multiple linemen drop back.

When Zimmer moved to Cincy in 2008, he joined an organization that had a defense-minded head coach (Marvin Lewis) and a scouting department that was (and still is) so understaffed that the assistant coaches have to handle uncommonly large responsibilities in evaluating prospects. Thus, Zimmer almost certainly has a louder (though not final) say in his team's draft process than most defensive coordinators around the league.

This in mind, it comes as no surprise that the Bengals have taken an extremely athletic defensive lineman in the earlier mid rounds almost every year since Zimmer and his zone blitzes arrived. The list: DT Pat Sims (third round, 2008), DE Michael Johnson (third, 2009), DE Carlos Dunlap (second, 2010), DT Geno Atkins (fourth, 2010), DT Devon Still (second, 2012) and DTBrandon Thompson (third, 2012).

Johnson, Dunlap and Still all were regarded as first-round type talents (they fell because of various red flags -- something the Bengals have never worried too much about).

The Bengals don't have any substantial needs along the defensive line this year. With Dunlap and Atkins on one side, Johnson signing his franchise tender and Domata Peko still being a much more agile nose tackle than anyone realizes, they're rock solid across the starting front four. Depth-wise, they should be set at tackle after drafting Still and Thompson last year. At end, they re-signed the productive and versatile Wallace Gilberry, who will take snaps from veteran Robert Geathers. All in all, things look pretty good. Still, it wouldn't be a surprise to see this team give Zimmer another toy up front. Overloading on athletic defensive linemen is something the Bengals will always be able to justify.

[Tigris]

I agree completely. You keep stacking up what makes your team great. If we feel we're not going to be able to bring back all these guys, then we need to replace them now so we're not f'd sideways when the time comes and we can't get them all under contract.

[Bengals1181]

so in other words ESPN subscribers for their money get the shot at the Bengals small scouting staff and a crack about the Bengals taking character risks. :lol:

 

 

 

(and thanks Jason)

[Oldcat]

So you're saying we should take Werner  :265: 

 

Actually, Geno had an amazing 40 time IIRC.  But I'd also add to this observation that the bengals D-Line is also much more like a hockey team in the way that it seems to constantly rotate guys in and out so they can be at their freshest. 

 

Another argument for another starter quality guy on the DL.

 

Except at DL we have 8 or 9 already on the staff, whereas at S, LB, and RB we have about 1 per position.

[Oldcat]

so in other words ESPN subscribers for their money get the shot at the Bengals small scouting staff and a crack about the Bengals taking character risks. :lol:

 

 

 

(and thanks Jason)

 

Its kind of ironic that in the middle of saying how we have hit home run after home run in the draft, they feel the need to say we have crappy scouts.  Seems like a lot of teams that sign first rounds busts would appreciate that kind of crappy scouting.

[alleycat]

Its kind of ironic that in the middle of saying how we have hit home run after home run in the draft, they feel the need to say we have crappy scouts.  Seems like a lot of teams that sign first rounds busts would appreciate that kind of crappy scouting.

Yeah, challenging that would undermine their whole self-important paradigm.  Fact is, Bengals have been nailing it their way for some time. Let the haters hate while we cash in.

 

 

I agree completely. You keep stacking up what makes your team great. If we feel we're not going to be able to bring back all these guys, then we need to replace them now so we're not f'd sideways when the time comes and we can't get them all under contract.

 

If the "Pillar" guys are defined by mid-round athletic gets, that makes me think of a few DL in this draft in particular.  They are Lavar Edwards from LSU and Mike Catapano from Princeton.  Both guys have ridiculous athleticism and size (270-280) that will allow them to come from the end or tackle spots.  The first round guy who best meets that profile is Datone Jones, IMO.

[Tigris]

Yeah, challenging that would undermine their whole self-important paradigm.  Fact is, Bengals have been nailing it their way for some time. Let the haters hate while we cash in.
 
 
 
If the "Pillar" guys are defined by mid-round athletic gets, that makes me think of a few DL in this draft in particular.  They are Lavar Edwards from LSU and Mike Catapano from Princeton.  Both guys have ridiculous athleticism and size (270-280) that will allow them to come from the end or tackle spots.  The first round guy who best meets that profile is Datone Jones, IMO.

MJ, Dunlap to name the last two ends we've grabbed with major upside but weren't first rounders. Athletic freaks for their size.

[Bengals1181]

Yeah, challenging that would undermine their whole self-important paradigm.  Fact is, Bengals have been nailing it their way for some time. Let the haters hate while we cash in.
 
 

 
If the "Pillar" guys are defined by mid-round athletic gets, that makes me think of a few DL in this draft in particular.  They are Lavar Edwards from LSU and Mike Catapano from Princeton.  Both guys have ridiculous athleticism and size (270-280) that will allow them to come from the end or tackle spots.  The first round guy who best meets that profile is Datone Jones, IMO.

My guy is Malliciah Goodman of Clemson.

[spicoli]

that really is an interesting perspective, thanks for posting that.

 

if they stay true to form and go after another DL in the 3rd-4th rounds, I would LOVE to have either one of Mike Catapano or Devin Taylor.

[texbengal]

that really is an interesting perspective, thanks for posting that.
 
if they stay true to form and go after another DL in the 3rd-4th rounds, I would LOVE to have either one of Mike Catapano or Devin Taylor.

Yeah like them both. Devin Taylor has some Carlos Dunlap-type qualities.... Long, athletic guy.

[HairOnFire]

This in mind, it comes as no surprise that the Bengals have taken an extremely athletic defensive lineman in the earlier mid rounds almost every year since Zimmer and his zone blitzes arrived. The list: DT Pat Sims (third round, 2008), DE Michael Johnson (third, 2009), DE Carlos Dunlap (second, 2010), DT Geno Atkins (fourth, 2010), DT Devon Still (second, 2012) and DTBrandon Thompson (third, 2012).

 

Margus Hunt.

 

Zimmer has openly gushed when speaking about the guy and he fits the crazy big, crazy strong, crazy fast, but might slip a bit profile.

[spicoli]

Margus Hunt.

 

Zimmer has openly gushed when speaking about the guy and he fits the crazy big, crazy strong, crazy fast, but might slip a bit profile.

 

yeah, that would not surprise me in the least bit.

[Le Tigre]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1724952

[Memphis_Bengal]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1724952

and http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/margus-hunt?id=2539310

[akiliMVP]

Hunt isn't a very good football player. I wouldn't take him before round 4.